3D Printing

[Blackhawk]

Fat Dragon Games launched a new ]Kickstarter today.

[Smoove_B]

Having a bit of an adjustment period with the 3D printing stuff. My buddy ran off a dozen or so test models for me in 28mm scale (I told him that's what wanted) but when they arrived, they were tiny - much smaller than what I've apparently become used to with miniatures (somewhere around 30-32mm scale. I knew this (sorta) but didn't really have a full appreciation for how slowly the transition happened and what I eventually became quite used to.

And it's not just the size, but the proportions (realistic vs heroic), which I know is a whole different issue. In this case, it was limbs or weapons or armor elements that are so thin as to be nearly impossible to paint or will most likely break off while being used.

It's really made me appreciate my board game miniatures so much more - and how much work they need to put into making sure they aren't going to be a customer service nightmare after delivery. We're going back to the drawing board and modifying some things to see if it helps, but even if we address the scale, I'm not really sure there's a realistic way to fix limbs or elements that are thin without ruining the scale illusion.

Fascinating hobby you folks have.

[hentzau]

Some models do not scale well when scaling down I’ve found. It’s pretty trial and error.

[Blackhawk]

Having a bit of an adjustment period with the 3D printing stuff. My buddy ran off a dozen or so test models for me in 28mm scale (I told him that's what wanted) but when they arrived, they were tiny - much smaller than what I've apparently become used to with miniatures (somewhere around 30-32mm scale. I knew this (sorta) but didn't really have a full appreciation for how slowly the transition happened and what I eventually became quite used to.

The scale isn't as big of a difference as it sounds like, as there isn't an industry standard as to what "28mm" or "32mm" means. Ground to top of head? Bottom of feet to top of head? Bottom of feet to eyes? What's happened is that a lot of companies who advertise 28mm measure to the eyes, while those who advertise 32mm measure to the top of the head. Some 32mm minis are somewhat larger, but most are pretty much the same size as 28mm. (As a side note, the most common was bottom of feet to eyes for a long time, as it simplified the question of headwear.)

And it's not just the size, but the proportions (realistic vs heroic), which I know is a whole different issue. In this case, it was limbs or weapons or armor elements that are so thin as to be nearly impossible to paint or will most likely break off while being used.

That's the bigger piece of the issue. 'Heroic' scale minis are exaggerated in pretty much every way, and make true scale minis look scrawny by comparison. These are all the same size. Check the scale line - it runs along the top of all of their heads, but the Kratos looking guy on the right looks much smaller than the elderly wizard.

[Punisher]

Tried upgrading my 1st gen CR10.
It became a nightmare for me.,
Trued replacing the board and display to start. That was a huge rabbit hole with the physical install and the firmware. Had to also get a raspberry pi and figure out how to work that.
Finally got sort of finished and added a BL Touch and filament runout sensor.
Got those installed and powered up and found out that ot didn't work properly. The auto bed leveling did one test then hammed the carriage into the far left and bottom. Off the actual bed. The other axis didn't stop when they were supposed to.
Finally got super frustrated a week later. Except I wasn't. Turns out that I had only been working on it for a day but my brain was telling me it was a week.
Gave up and returned the board and screen and pi. Then got an updated board by the manufacturer.
Didn't need pi for firmware but dtill had to learn how to install firmware. Put in a ticket with vendor but their support is not that good. Multiple bavk and forth trying to explain it. Ended up paying $5 for a custom firmware that still had to be manually configured. Tried getting support but they wanted 30 gor email support. Eventually figured it out but sill had problems so scrppef the whole thing and put everything back the way it was.
Th8s too felt like days of working.
At one point I realized that everything I pass trying to do was close to a new printer.
Picked up a CR10 Smart Pro.
Gonna just work on getting the old one working for basic things and scrap it of I can't.
I did learn a lot and have a little retention still.
This was also WAY outside my current comfort zone.
I don't regret trying snd I might have Eventually gotten everything to work but it was stressing my out way too much and the cost was getting ridiculous.
Just finished putting everything Except the hotend back. Will build new printer overnight or tomorrow.

[hentzau]

Having a bit of an adjustment period with the 3D printing stuff. My buddy ran off a dozen or so test models for me in 28mm scale (I told him that's what wanted) but when they arrived, they were tiny - much smaller than what I've apparently become used to with miniatures (somewhere around 30-32mm scale. I knew this (sorta) but didn't really have a full appreciation for how slowly the transition happened and what I eventually became quite used to.

The scale isn't as big of a difference as it sounds like, as there isn't an industry standard as to what "28mm" or "32mm" means. Ground to top of head? Bottom of feet to top of head? Bottom of feet to eyes? What's happened is that a lot of companies who advertise 28mm measure to the eyes, while those who advertise 32mm measure to the top of the head. Some 32mm minis are somewhat larger, but most are pretty much the same size as 28mm. (As a side note, the most common was bottom of feet to eyes for a long time, as it simplified the question of headwear.)

And it's not just the size, but the proportions (realistic vs heroic), which I know is a whole different issue. In this case, it was limbs or weapons or armor elements that are so thin as to be nearly impossible to paint or will most likely break off while being used.

That's the bigger piece of the issue. 'Heroic' scale minis are exaggerated in pretty much every way, and make true scale minis look scrawny by comparison. These are all the same size. Check the scale line - it runs along the top of all of their heads, but the Kratos looking guy on the right looks much smaller than the elderly wizard.

I really just should have waited for BH to post. He explains pretty.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, that image is perfect. The minis I had printed are 100% proportioned "true" and they look scrawny. I can totally understand how and why the other proportions came to be. I just wish the sculptors had better sorting / identification other than relying on my eyeballs.

[Blackhawk]

I had my first major clog on my P1S today, after what, six weeks of printing pretty much every day? Not too bad, although it took me a while to figure out that's what was going on - and by a while, I mean long enough to unexepectedly print several Flying Spaghetti Monsters.

[Blackhawk]

I've been printing for Rangers of the Shadow Deep as a first goal, working on terrain and dungeon tiles. Good lord, this thing is going to use a lot of tiles. The very first map in the book (three connected 1.5' x 1.5' rooms) to use them is going to require:

1 gate
1 stairs
2 doors
8 corners
71 2" walls
161 2"x2" floors
A number of connectors that I have yet to calculate (but it will be a lot - roughly 2x the number of floors, plus another one for every other floor, plus one per wall - so... good god, around 500 connectors?

The good news is that if I can print that map, I'll likely have most of what I need for the rest of the maps.

...I'm going to need more filament.

[Blackhawk]

I upgraded my system today with some almost-competently built vents. Instead of venting into the room, the P1S now has a dryer vent style hose that leads from the exhaust on the enclosure and out through a piece of wood to vent directly outside the house. I used this design here to build it. If I'm not working with the door open, I'll be dumping practically all of the exhaust directly outside, freeing me of the need to have a window with an exhaust fan going. The exhaust fan was becoming an issue as the weather warmed up, as it was blowing air conditioned air out the window. Also, with the more benign filaments (which is pretty much just PLA), I can safely print overnight while I'm in the room.

While I was at it, I cut a second hole in the wood and installed a second exhaust vent. This one drops from the standard 4" duct to a 2" duct, with a hose that I can roll up. The hose includes an inline fan with a separate controller. That means that I can extend the hose, flip the switch, and have direct exhaust with suction that I can set on my desk if I'm soldering or working with other things that create nasty fumes.

All without having to have the window open (although I'll still pay attention to make sure that they're strong enough to actually catch all of the fumes.)

The only thing I still want to do is find some sort of a stand/clamp that I can set on my desk to hold the exhaust hose.

[hentzau]

Looks like Bambu Labs are having a one-day sale on their printers:

Sale Link

Do I really need another printer?

[Blackhawk]

Damn, $13.99 looked really good for a spool of filament - but it requires 8+ rolls to get that price.

[Blackhawk]

Also, with the more benign filaments (which is pretty much just PLA), I can safely print overnight while I'm in the room.

And this is pretty much what I've been doing in printing out my dungeon tiles - get a 12-hour print job set up first thing in the morning, clear the print bed that night, and start a second one to run overnight.

[Blackhawk]

Today was one of those rare days in Indiana: the temperature was reasonable, and the humidity was low.

That's right - spray paint weather! When you only get a few days of spray paint weather a year outside of mid spring and early autumn, you take advantage of it. Today I primed a little over 200 mixed dungeon tiles. I wasn't looking forward to trying to airbrush prime all of those.

Now, if I can just get one more day here in about three weeks when I'm done printing them all...

[hentzau]

Today was one of those rare days in Indiana: the temperature was reasonable, and the humidity was low.

That's right - spray paint weather! When you only get a few days of spray paint weather a year outside of mid spring and early autumn, you take advantage of it. Today I primed a little over 200 mixed dungeon tiles. I wasn't looking forward to trying to airbrush prime all of those.

Now, if I can just get one more day here in about three weeks when I'm done printing them all...

You’re way more finicky about priming weather than I am. I prime outdoors pretty much April-November and never really pay that much attention to the humidity. Never had a problem.

Except with anti-gloss varnish. That shit I want it to be as dry as a bone before I apply.

[Blackhawk]

Woo! 173 2x2 tiles (including five 4x4 and ten 2x4) printed! Now I'm starting on a smaller set of wooden floors. A slightly smaller set. Luckily, where a sheet of 16 2x2 tiles took about 12 hours to print, the same number of wood tiles only takes about 7 1/2. I'll be able to run three batches (48) per day.

After that it'll be walls. I need far fewer than floors, but walls take much longer to print.

Once the walls are done I'll be able to start making the fun stuff (special tiles, decoration, etc.) Of course, I'll also need to paint between 350 and 400 tiles. That's going to be shortcuts and craft paint - there's no way I'm painting all of that with regular miniature paints and a size 0 brush. Drybrushing , contrast paints, and washes aren't great on 3d printed terrain, as they tend to emphasize layer lines, so I'll have to come up with something else. I'm also needing to decide on a color scheme for them. I'm leaning away from Dungeon Trope Gray and thinking more of a buff with touches of something reddish and grayish here and there. Something like this:





I'm not sure, though. Luckily, I had the sense to hang on to the few failed prints I had that had the full stone texture to use for test pieces.

You’re way more finicky about priming weather than I am. I prime outdoors pretty much April-November and never really pay that much attention to the humidity. Never had a problem.

Except with anti-gloss varnish. That shit I want it to be as dry as a bone before I apply.

I used to be that way, until I had a few miniatures ruined by pebbling and bubbling. When the humidity is near 80% like it often is here, spray paint just isn't reliable. It's one of the main reasons that I invested in an airbrush.

[Blackhawk]

Apparently Amazon is selling expired XTC-3D epoxy, a product for smoothing prints.

Nine prints, representing $30 worth of filament, roughly 50 hours of printer time, three hours of sanding, and multiple coats of primer are now garbage.

Another 'fuck you' from Amazon.

[Punisher]

Do you have a link?

[Punisher]

Also.
Is anyone planning on getting into resin printing?
I might be selling the 2 I gave. An Elegoo Saturn 2 and a Peopoly Moai. The first uses an LCS screen and the 2nd a laser. It's slower because the laser has to trace ev6but I think it's more accurate. Still need to clean it up and test it though.
Both are kind of heavy so shipping might be costly.
If not, I'm having a yard sale at the end of the month and might try selling it then.

[Blackhawk]

Do you have a link?

To the epoxy? Here

[Blackhawk]

Also.
Is anyone planning on getting into resin printing?
I might be selling the 2 I gave. An Elegoo Saturn 2 and a Peopoly Moai. The first uses an LCS screen and the 2nd a laser. It's slower because the laser has to trace ev6but I think it's more accurate. Still need to clean it up and test it though.
Both are kind of heavy so shipping might be costly.
If not, I'm having a yard sale at the end of the month and might try selling it then.

Wishing to, but I still don't have a fully sealed contained area to do it in.

[Punisher]

Also.
Is anyone planning on getting into resin printing?
I might be selling the 2 I gave. An Elegoo Saturn 2 and a Peopoly Moai. The first uses an LCS screen and the 2nd a laser. It's slower because the laser has to trace ev6but I think it's more accurate. Still need to clean it up and test it though.
Both are kind of heavy so shipping might be costly.
If not, I'm having a yard sale at the end of the month and might try selling it then.

Wishing to, but I still don't have a fully sealed contained area to do it in.

Use your bathroom.
Take showers at the YMCA.
Problem solved.

[Blackhawk]

I am taking a few days off from printing dungeon tiles. I've done nothing else for the past few weeks, even running that sucker 24/7. I'm just about done with the basic structural stuff (stone floors, wood floors, corners, walls, etc), with the more specific bits (special sections, furniture, etc), but I really want to print a few other pieces for fun. I'm also starting to run low on my terrain filament (down to the final spool), and I don't want to run completely out in case there's something I find I need on the spot.

[hentzau]

Well, this is tempting...

1:240 scale Serenity model from Fab365

Link to the project files.

[Punisher]

Well, this is tempting...

1:240 scale Serenity model from Fab365

Link to the project files.

Tried buying it via PayPal but the site just blinks and goes back to payment on my phone. Will try later today on my PC if I remember

[hentzau]

Why is it that your printer works fine until you REALLY need it?

[Blackhawk]

Why is it that the only time it needs involved maintenance is when you're in a hurry?

[Punisher]

You guys need to start your day not caring whether you print or mot. Basically play hard to get with your printer.
Then when the printers jealousy is at an all time high, sneak in a print and tell it that you love it.
Also remember to sacrifice 1 full roll of filament to the printer gods once per quarter.

[Blackhawk]

For those with an interest in the period:



Of interest:

[Punisher]

I backed that. Mostly because I'm interested in the motion ones. It was pretty cheap as well.

[Montag]

So I struggled with my Ender for awhile and even modded it with the bed leveling sensor, but still had issues. I just got a Ankermake 5C and it is awesome. Built-in auto bed leveling and it is way faster on the prints than the Ender Creality 3. My first prints were just under 5 hours each and it did a great job. Maybe 1 or 2 short stringers. The part separated from the magnetic print bed cover just from cooling down.

The prints are token holders for Middara.

[Blackhawk]

So, I've been doing a ton of printing/building lately. The weather means I can't spray paint, so I haven't finished much, but I've got a bunch of items that are near finished, and I will likely post sometime soon. The thing is, most are not gaming related at all (I've got a bunch of gaming related stuff, too, but it's either uninteresting or far from completion.)

Should I post the non-gaming stuff here? Start a new "General 3D Printing" thread in EBG where more people will see it, and leave this as a "3D Printing for Games" thread? I'm leaning toward the thread in EBG myself.

Thoughts? Ideas? Feeeeelings?

[Punisher]

I think it's ok to branch off to an general thread in EBG.

[Punisher]

Finally finished my upgrade project.
I've been working on it for months now.
Went from stock Crwality CR-10 to

Sprite pro direct drive extruder
Filament runout sensor
CR Touch
4.2.7 board
BTT Pad 7 for running Klipper
Finally finished hardware upgrades and getting Klipper stable.
Now I need to learn all the basic stuff just to get ready to print like bed leveling, PID tuning, and input shaping.
Hopefully that won't also take months.
Hopefully it's all worth it and keeps me hoing until the K2 arrives at the end of the year or so.

[hentzau]

Bought a Bambu Labs A1 with an AMS lite unit a month ago. I debated a long time about getting the AMS unit, but the price was right. I honestly didn’t think I would get much use out of it, but man am I have a ball with it right now.

[Blackhawk]

An AMS is high, high on my wishlist. I also didn't figure I'd need it, but the more I do, the more I see that I could be doing with one.

[Punisher]

What was the print time on those?
When I tested mine it added a ton of hours going multifilament instead of single.
Mine was a for 3d godzilla though and yours is relatively flat.

[hentzau]

What was the print time on those?
When I tested mine it added a ton of hours going multifilament instead of single.
Mine was a for 3d godzilla though and yours is relatively flat.

Print time was about an hour 20 for the large burst and an hour for the short.

I’m printing a rocketeer plaque in 4 colors right now and it’s closer to 10 hours. But it’s a much bigger model.

[Punisher]

What was the print time on those?
When I tested mine it added a ton of hours going multifilament instead of single.
Mine was a for 3d godzilla though and yours is relatively flat.

Print time was about an hour 20 for the large burst and an hour for the short.

I’m printing a rocketeer plaque in 4 colors right now and it’s closer to 10 hours. But it’s a much bigger model.

Hmm.
I printed a godzilla of around 6 or 8 inches high.
Only 2 colors. 1 for body and 1 for the fins using infill for color changes.
IIRC it took around 18-20 hours on a P1S.
It came out GREAT but it took a long time.

[Blackhawk]

That seems high, but I've printed small things that take that long when I've wanted extremely fine detail and strength (.2 nozzle, extra walls, etc.)