The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy

[Alefroth]

If Harris wanted to court Palestinian votes, she could let a Palestinian politician endorsed her.

Let? Since when does anyone need to be allowed to make an endorsement?

[Alefroth]

It was a free endorsement.

It obviously wasn't.

[Isgrimnur]

No one owes you a venue.

[LawBeefaroni]

Harris gets Insane Clown Posse’s endorsement

She got one of the members' endorsement.

Vice President Harris has secured an endorsement from Violent J, one of two rappers in the hip-hop duo Insane Clown Posse.

For whatever good it will do.

In the interview, the rap group’s fans — known as Juggalos or Juggalettes — listed a variety of issues that they care about, though many expressed at the beginning of the video that they’re unlikely to vote.

Isn't it kind of juvenile to not vote for someone because they didn't court your endorsement?

Not courting endorsement is not the same as rejecting endorsement. Romman wanted to endorse Harris and they didn't want her endorsement. It was a free endorsement. Harris didn't need to do anything to get that endorsement. No need to promise to do anything for Gaza. Even that was not acceptable to DNC and Harris.

They didn't reject an endorsement. They declined to allow her to speak at the DNC. Funny thing, there are limited speaker slots at the event. She can still endorse whoever she wants.

[raydude]

They didn't reject an endorsement. They declined to allow her to speak at the DNC. Funny thing, there are limited speaker slots at the event. She can still endorse whoever she wants.

This. She wanted the biggest stage, she didn't get it. Maybe Tlaib then asked if she could speak at one of the smaller stages, like one of the rallies, but then kept getting turned down each time and now she's bitter? I doubt that's what happened, because if it did we'd hear no end of it.

More likely, she didn't get the stage she wanted, so instead of working with the campaign to find the next biggest stage or whatever, she decided to take her ball and go home.

[Alefroth]

A couple people have mentioned Tlaib now. Unless I'm mistaken, this isn't about Tlaib.

[LordMortis]

A couple people have mentioned Tlaib now. Unless I'm mistaken, this isn't about Tlaib.

That began with me.

It was about courting votes based on Palestinian American relationships to Harris. That's why I brought Tlaib in to it. This has been a very big thing here ever since Israel responded to their Hamas attacks in October 2023 and it is no small way consequential when it comes to her non endorsement of Harris while speaking at rallies.

[Zaxxon]

Isn't it kind of juvenile to not vote for someone vote for the destruction of the country's democratic systems as well as widespread reduction in rights because one candidate's party didn't court your endorsement?

FTFY, and the answer is yes.

[Victoria Raverna]

They didn't reject an endorsement. They declined to allow her to speak at the DNC. Funny thing, there are limited speaker slots at the event. She can still endorse whoever she wants.

Ok. So they think the pro-Palestinian group are so unimportant that they don't have 2 minutes time for her to speak in DNC? And then still want to blame them when some of them don't want to vote for Harris because of it?

[Victoria Raverna]

They didn't reject an endorsement. They declined to allow her to speak at the DNC. Funny thing, there are limited speaker slots at the event. She can still endorse whoever she wants.

This. She wanted the biggest stage, she didn't get it. Maybe Tlaib then asked if she could speak at one of the smaller stages, like one of the rallies, but then kept getting turned down each time and now she's bitter? I doubt that's what happened, because if it did we'd hear no end of it.

More likely, she didn't get the stage she wanted, so instead of working with the campaign to find the next biggest stage or whatever, she decided to take her ball and go home.

You got it mixed up. It was not about Tlaib. The one that they wanted to speak for 2 minutes to endorse Harris was not Tlaib. It was a Ruwa Romman from Georgia.

[Victoria Raverna]

Isn't it kind of juvenile to not vote for someone vote for the destruction of the country's democratic systems as well as widespread reduction in rights because one candidate's party didn't court your endorsement?

FTFY, and the answer is yes.

Why blame them? Why not blame the white male that are going to vote for Trump?

The pro Palestinian group is so unimportant that DNC couldn't give them 2 minutes which means they're not going to the be the main cause if Trump wins.

Also most of them are still going to vote for Harris because Trump is far worse, but the action of DNC showed that their opinions and votes are worthless to DNC.

[Blackhawk]

They didn't reject an endorsement. They declined to allow her to speak at the DNC. Funny thing, there are limited speaker slots at the event. She can still endorse whoever she wants.

Ok. So they think the pro-Palestinian group are so unimportant that they don't have 2 minutes time for her to speak in DNC? And then still want to blame them when some of them don't want to vote for Harris because of it?

There are different forms of pro-Palestinian views. They might not have wanted the kind of black-and-white statements that some of those views espouse, not when the political reality is much, much more complex than that.

[Skinypupy]

Why blame them? Why not blame the white male that are going to vote for Trump?

There’s plenty of blame to go around. Trust me.

[Victoria Raverna]

They didn't reject an endorsement. They declined to allow her to speak at the DNC. Funny thing, there are limited speaker slots at the event. She can still endorse whoever she wants.

Ok. So they think the pro-Palestinian group are so unimportant that they don't have 2 minutes time for her to speak in DNC? And then still want to blame them when some of them don't want to vote for Harris because of it?

There are different forms of pro-Palestinian views. They might not have wanted the kind of black-and-white statements that some of those views espouse, not when the political reality is much, much more complex than that.

Try to read the speech that they wanted to read in DNC. What is so bad about that? DNC treated it like they're terrorist and wanted to call for Israel's destruction.

In the speech:
1. Endorsement for Harris and reject Trump.
2. Call for peace.
3. Call for all hostages to be returned.

What is so bad about those?

[hepcat]

I agree they should have allowed a representative to speak. But I also don’t know all the details, so I defer to anyone with more knowledge on why they didn’t allow it.

NPR had a great segment on the Uncommitted movement recently. I still disagree with the way they’re doing things (choosing to help a group that would accelerate the deaths they’re trying to stop over a group that has said they want it to stop, but aren’t moving fast enough for them), but I’m a little more sympathetic to the frustration they feel.

[YellowKing]

The harsh reality, VR, is that most Americans don't give a shit about this conflict. They're seeing two groups of people that have been fighting since they were born and since their parents were born still fighting. In your eyes this might be the end-all be all of human importance, but to most Americans, they just care about putting food on the table. They literally don't give a fuck about a bunch of people dying half a world away.

I'm not saying that's right, but I'm saying while this conflict might be YOUR priority, it's not everyone's priority and it most certainly isn't the US government's ONLY priority. If you want an answer as to "why doesn't so and so do this and why doesn't so and so do that," there's your answer.

[Victoria Raverna]

The ‘Black Insurrectionist’ was actually white.

Black Insurrectionist,” the anonymous social media persona behind some of the most widely circulated conspiracy theories about the 2024 election, can be traced to a man from upstate New York.

He’s also white.

With a profile photo of a Black soldier and the tagline “I FOLLOW BACK TRUE PATRIOTS,” the account on the platform X amassed more than 300,000 followers while posting dubious claims about Vice President Kamala Harris and her running mate, Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz. Some were amplified by former President Donald Trump, his running mate Ohio Sen. JD Vance, and their Republican allies in Congress. The most salacious claims have come in the closing weeks of the campaign.

Last month, the account posted what Black Insurrectionist claimed was an affidavit from an ABC News employee, alleging Harris was given questions in advance of the network’s debate with Trump — which ABC News vigorously disputed. Trump approved, though, declaring, “I love the person.” More recently, Black Insurrectionist posted a baseless claim alleging inappropriate behavior between Walz and a student decades ago, a falsehood that U.S. intelligence officials said sprang from a Russian disinformation campaign.

[LordMortis]

Why blame them? Why not blame the white male that are going to vote for Trump?

What do you think the last 10 years have been?

Also most of them are still going to vote for Harris because Trump is far worse, but the action of DNC showed that their opinions and votes are worthless to DNC.

When you are single issue voter, you single issue is not domestic, expresses itself with blinders, and are a smaller demographic, then your votes are "worth less." Palestine put Hamas in power. That's a reality these voters sweep under the rug. Much like we are going to have get burdened with the accountability of putting TFG in power.

All that said, I have no issues with giving them a voice and think the US response needs to be humanitarian, as Israel is the aggressor in Palestine (not so much for Lebanaon and I don't even know where to begin to think with Iran). Though, I guess I hear that voice all of the time around here and it's not always such a peace, love, and understanding voice.

[Kurth]

Isn't it kind of juvenile to not vote for someone vote for the destruction of the country's democratic systems as well as widespread reduction in rights because one candidate's party didn't court your endorsement?

FTFY, and the answer is yes.

Best FTFY ever.

[Zaxxon]

[waitingtoconnect]

Trump will give Bibi open slather to do what he wants to destroy Israeli democracy and expel muslims from this country.

Maybe it’s a choice between two evils of you are an Arab American but voting for trump is madness .

[waitingtoconnect]

Trump will give Bibi open slather to do what he wants to destroy Israeli democracy and expel muslims from this country.

Maybe it’s a choice between two evils of you are an Arab American but voting for trump is madness .

I remember saying to my late wife on October 7 2023, that Hamas just won Trump the election. I still think I’m right.

[LawBeefaroni]

They didn't reject an endorsement. They declined to allow her to speak at the DNC. Funny thing, there are limited speaker slots at the event. She can still endorse whoever she wants.

Ok. So they think the pro-Palestinian group are so unimportant that they don't have 2 minutes time for her to speak in DNC? And then still want to blame them when some of them don't want to vote for Harris because of it?

They didn't get a spot to speak at the DNC. If they don't vote for Harris because of it, they're essentially voting for Trump. Kind of justifying if you ask me.

[Grifman]

Right now, my gut feeling is that Trump is going to win the electoral college, while Harris wins the popular vote. The latest polls have her with still a slight lead but it's down from what it once was, and it's not enough to come out on top of the EC.

And of course afterwards, the blame game on why she lost, what she could have done differently, etc. will all begin. That said, I think she ran a great campaign, and at least gave Dems hope when Biden seemed doomed to fail. She campaigned hard, didn't make any major blunders or gaffes (didn't call anyone "deplorable" or talk about "God and guns", etc), really embarrassed Trump in the debate, and tried new and different ways to reach out to various audiences, and ran a rather hopeful, positive campaign. But in the end, I don't think it was enough.

But I don't blame her or her campaign, I have to blame America. The fact that after Jan 6, and every single Trump scandal (which I won't enumerate here since we know all of them) that Trump is still in this race is not her fault, it's the fault of the average voter who just doesn't seem to care about the issues that we here think are so important. And I hate to sound elitist, but voters just seem to be really stupid. The US has the best economy of any major country, and most people say individually that they are doing pretty good, but "the economy is terrible". People are looking back on Trump's term, thinking it was better, and yet ignore his disastrous handling of Covid, the tens thousands that he killed with his (in)actions and the susequent crush on the economy. It's just crazy that anyone could believe things were better under Trump.

It's really sad to me what has become of this country. I can only hope that after 4 more years of what is going to be a disaster, especially if Trump enacts his crazy economic policies, and we see hundreds of thousands rounded up and put into camps, and Trump turns more authoritarian, maybe, just maybe, people will wake up. But I just don't know. I plan on going to bed early on election night, and then wake, say a prayer, and then see what happened. I think we are in for a long four years. I desperately hope I am wrong but it not, wake me when it's over.

[LordMortis]

+1 only I hope there is a way back after four years and that those four years aren't too painful for me and mine as well as for those I'll never meet.

[Holman]

I'm optimistic that Harris will win.

Polls are tiny snapshots, and we've all seen plenty of discussion of how they fail to capture enthusiasm, fail to reach young adults, etc. At this point I think polls are essentially conservative because they are unable to keep up with a changing American electorate.

If that sounds like Dem copium, remember that every significant election in the past six years has been followed up by stories asking why the polls failed to indicate Blue strength.

[Kurth]

And I hate to sound elitist, but voters just seem to be really stupid.

This. And then some.

I’m saddened watching our democracy turn to autocracy and realizing that democracy just isn’t going to cut it in this day and age.

Argue about gerrymandering and the electoral college and everything else wrong with our system, but in the end, the problem is still the people.

[msteelers]

I’m saddened watching our democracy turn to autocracy and realizing that democracy just isn’t going to cut it in this day and age.

Argue about gerrymandering and the electoral college and everything else wrong with our system, but in the end, the problem is still the people.

I disagree on democracy stuff. We need a strong democracy to continue making progress and have a better future. But democracies are fragile, and require an engaged and educated populace. The GOP has been actively telling voters for decades that their feelings are more important than facts. This is the result.

[Grifman]

Polls are tiny snapshots, and we've all seen plenty of discussion of how they fail to capture enthusiasm, fail to reach young adults, etc. At this point I think polls are essentially conservative because they are unable to keep up with a changing American electorate.

If that sounds like Dem copium, remember that every significant election in the past six years has been followed up by stories asking why the polls failed to indicate Blue strength.

Except for presidential elections. Trump's strength has been underestimated by polling in both 2016 and 2020. Maybe this time the polls are wrong in the right way.

[Zarathud]

Win or lose, Republicans have glorified hateful feelings over sanity. Partisanship over policy. A Trump victory would only remove their excuse to cover up their ugly.

I am hopeful there are enough people who see the truth, but don’t want to engage with MAGA. I think part of Biden’s weakness (although I love the guy even before he chose country over self) was that he was supposed to return us to normality. But MAGA and Trump fought back rather than died.

[Kurth]

I’m saddened watching our democracy turn to autocracy and realizing that democracy just isn’t going to cut it in this day and age.

Argue about gerrymandering and the electoral college and everything else wrong with our system, but in the end, the problem is still the people.

The GOP has been actively telling voters for decades that their feelings are more important than facts. This is the result.

That's certainly true.

But I think the bigger issue is that we live in a time when most people are almost permanently online and the pervasiveness of social media coupled with disinformation have produced a population that finds constant support for the notion that their feelings are facts. And with the general cultural and societal rejection of experts and expertise, that population feels it's just as qualified as public health or foreign policy "experts" to hold opinions on issues like appropriate pandemic response or management of multilateral defense treaties.

I don't think people have changed. #iblametheinternet

[Zaxxon]

Well, Colbert coined “truthiness” in what, 2006? Before Twitter even existed, and Facebook still had a ‘The’ in front of it, right? So I hear and agree with you that it’s certainly gotten much much worse, but this has been a long time coming and predates the rise of social networking echo chambers.

[Kraken]

It’s no coincidence that our political society is breaking down at the same time that newspapers are in a death spiral. Vast sections of the country no longer have trusted local news sources. Democracy depends on well-informed citizens; what we have are hordes of intentionally misinformed citizens.

[YellowKing]

Except for presidential elections. Trump's strength has been underestimated by polling in both 2016 and 2020. Maybe this time the polls are wrong in the right way.

I saw an interesting snippet on CNN about this. They went back to 1972 and couldn't find a single instance where either party in a Presidential election was underestimated (or "outran the polls") three times in a row. Primarily because pollsters figure out why they went wrong and make adjustments to correct for it. If Trump is underestimated in this election, it would be historic.

That in and of itself is no guarantee, but a further level of comfort for Harris supporters could be this - the same clip pointed out that Trump's best polls in 2020 (ie, those that were not underestimating him) were in the +8 range. In this cycle, they're averaging around +3. So even if Trump's support is being underestimated this election, it may be (and probably is) at a much smaller differential than 2016 and 2020.

And finally, while it's true that 2022 wasn't a Presidential election, we do know why the red wave never materialized - young voter turnout. If young voters could show up in numbers like that for a midterm, which typically doesn't draw in the younger demographic, then it's certainly possible they could show up again in record numbers for this election. Which of course favors Harris.

That's not to say that any of us really knows exactly what will happen Tuesday, just that relying on 2016, 2020, or even 2022 polling doesn't necessarily tell us what's going to happen in 2024.

[Unagi]

but a further level of comfort for Harris supporters could be this <snip>

honestly, I had to stop reading. I'll come back in a week and find out what I should have found comfort in.

[Smoove_B]

If 75k+ people assembling on the Round last night in D.C. to see her final speech isn't a positive sign, then I really don't even know what to think about what we're all seeing anymore.

[YellowKing]

I think we're so consumed inside our own "politically aware" bubble that we fail to appreciate the number of last-minute, casual voters who vote based on candidate favorability, overall vibe, and mundane stuff like gas prices, and have zero awareness outside of that. I strongly feel that those voters are going to break Harris' way due to a combination of the current economic climate and Trump simply being the older, less appealing candidate.

[LawBeefaroni]

I think we're so consumed inside our own "politically aware" bubble that we fail to appreciate the number of last-minute, casual voters who vote based on candidate favorability, overall vibe, and mundane stuff like gas prices, and have zero awareness outside of that. I strongly feel that those voters are going to break Harris' way due to a combination of the current economic climate and Trump simply being the older, less appealing candidate.

What about the current economic climate would make casual voters break for Harris?

Economy and Immigration are the top 2 issues and the GOP misinformation has been hammering those two points. I live in Chicago and I was getting overtly racist anti-Harris PAC ads during the WS last night (so much so I turned off the TV and listened on the radio). Economy and immigration.

There's also a large portion of casual voters who just can't pull the lever for a woman, much less a minority woman. They can say all the right things but in the secrecy of the booth they will fall back on habit.


I'm not saying any of this will win it for Trump but any assumption of Harris sleeper advantages needs to take into account all the Trump sleepers too.

[Scraper]

I think we're so consumed inside our own "politically aware" bubble that we fail to appreciate the number of last-minute, casual voters who vote based on candidate favorability, overall vibe, and mundane stuff like gas prices, and have zero awareness outside of that. I strongly feel that those voters are going to break Harris' way due to a combination of the current economic climate and Trump simply being the older, less appealing candidate.

One of my friends was over at my house this weekend and she's generally unaware of current events. I wouldn't call her stupid, she's just wrapped up in her own world of work and family responsibilities. Anyway she honestly did not know who the current President is and who is running for President right now. AND SHE WILL VOTE! It's scary and I have a feeling there are more people like her than people on this board realize. She likely would have voted for Trump simply because she didn't know any better until my wife and I talked her out of it.

[hepcat]

I find that highly suspicious and I suspect she's pulling one over on you.