Steam Class Action Suit

[paulbaxter]

Couldn't find any discussion of this elsewhere.

I have to imagine many of us are parties to the current class action suit. Just thought it was interesting that in the midst of everything Steam pushed a mandatory user agreement that all disputes MUST go to court rather than arbitration.

I don't have any further comments, but I thought maybe some of the rest of you might have feelings about it.

[LordMortis]

Couldn't find any discussion of this elsewhere.

I have to imagine many of us are parties to the current class action suit. Just thought it was interesting that in the midst of everything Steam pushed a mandatory user agreement that all disputes MUST go to court rather than arbitration.

I don't have any further comments, but I thought maybe some of the rest of you might have feelings about it.

I wondered about the new user agreement. I hate those. How is it an agreement when they push a notification of new rules and to access what you paid for you must accept them? That sounds like a change in dictatorship, not an agreement.

Anyhoo first links I could find about what you bring up

https://www.polygon.com/explained/45755 ... agreements

Millions of Steam users woke up this morning with a notice from Valve: The multi-faceted gaming company updated its Steam Subscriber Agreement to remove a requirement that disputes go to arbitration as opposed to court. Now, if you have a dispute, you’re required to take the company to federal or state court in King County, Washington.

Legal experts consider this a win for Steam users, even if most of them will likely never take Valve to court. Consumers are usually required in such agreements to arbitrate and not sue — at least, in the United States. Previously, Valve forced its disputes into arbitration — when a third party reviews an issue to resolve it outside of the legal system. The update also removed Valve’s class-action waiver, which means class-action lawsuits from a group of people with the same complaint are now on the table.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/transacti ... 024-08-12/

Aug 12 (Reuters) - Video game developer and distributor Valve has been hit with a consumer class action accusing it of barring publishers in its Steam online store from discounting their prices elsewhere, causing consumers to pay more for games.

Four gamers in California, Florida and Missouri filed their lawsuit, opens new tab against Valve in federal court in Seattle on Friday, alleging the company’s market dominance and billions of dollars in annual revenue came from “strangling competition” with price restraints.

[Unagi]

How is it an agreement when they push a notification of new rules and to access what you paid for you must accept them?

Yeah, I had the same thought when it came up. I mean, what are my choices? Accept or like, put aside PC games as a pastime?

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, I had the same thought when it came up. I mean, what are my choices? Accept or like, put aside PC games as a pastime?

I thought this thread might also be connected to what California just did:

California Governor Gavin Newsom has signed a law (AB 2426) to combat “disappearing” purchases of digital games, movies, music, and ebooks. The legislation will force digital storefronts to tell customers they’re just getting a license to use the digital media, rather than suggesting they actually own it.

When the law comes into effect next year, it will ban digital storefronts from using terms like “buy” or “purchase,” unless they inform customers that they’re not getting unrestricted access to whatever they’re buying. Storefronts will have to tell customers they’re getting a license that can be revoked as well as provide a list of all the restrictions that come along with it. Companies that break the rule could be fined for false advertising.

Bigger than just games though, so...

[LordMortis]

How is it an agreement when they push a notification of new rules and to access what you paid for you must accept them?

Yeah, I had the same thought when it came up. I mean, what are my choices? Accept or like, put aside PC games as a pastime?

Accept or lose the library I spent $1000's on.

[Unagi]

How is it an agreement when they push a notification of new rules and to access what you paid for you must accept them?

Yeah, I had the same thought when it came up. I mean, what are my choices? Accept or like, put aside PC games as a pastime?

Accept or lose the library I spent $1000's on.

exactly.

[Blackhawk]

Every month or so, I get a notification from Verizon on my phone: "Touch here to agree to the new Terms of Service." Not, "to review the terms of service", but "Touch here to agree." It's like being asked to sign a blank form that they'll fill in later. I know it's petty, but there's no way in hell I'm going to follow that particular instruction - those notifications get dismissed and ignored.

I also got the Steam notification yesterday (with options to read it first!), and the first word I noticed was "disputes." Great, thought I, another arbitration clause, which I think of as one of the most despicable forms or corporate power abuse. "If you use our service, you agree to surrender your rights." I was surprised to see it was the exact opposite - the elimination of an arbitration clause.

[Zarathud]

Steam is eliminating arbitration because the alternative is worse — being sued anywhere. It all depends on how the designated court will rule on the class actions.

The contracts are unbalanced but otherwise there will be no service. Steam is pretty good on the developer side according to Thor at Pirate Software (Heartbound) because they allow developers to sell Steam keys elsewhere without taking a cut — as long as Steam can charge a similar price. They also provide a number of tools that help distribution.

[hepcat]

I accepted my fate as a renter in the digital age long ago.

[hitbyambulance]

I accepted my fate as a renter in the digital age long ago.

i still buy music as physical media. i like having control of _which_ pressing/production/mix of an album i want, when it comes to re-releases.

games... many of the digital download titles i purchased on Steam are very cheap, part of bundles or were free, and that's an acceptable trade-off to not actually 'owning' them. i have purchased exactly zer0 of the hundreds of games in my Epic library. GOG allows you to keep backup non-DRM'ed versions, so i prefer to spend full price there (which i rarely do, but i did get Cyberpunk 2077 through them)

[LordMortis]

For moment free streaming is good enough for my music needs beyond my existing personal library. I haven't bought music in quite some time but when I did it was still physical. Should I do so again, it will still be physical, though I'm running out of physical players. Ripping directly to my computer has hit the point of problematic and when Windows 10 goes away, I will have to buy a more expensive external player. I bought a cheap one through Temu and instantly regret it. Currently I still have two very old laptops that were capable of upgrading to 10 and serve as nothing but media players with DVD players, Internet access, and HDMI connections.

I also haven't bought a movie in close two decades either. Probably longer since I bought a book.

I resisted Steam for a long time, hating to tie my ownership to a service that could go away. I think I actually joined Impulse for Elemental before I joined Steam and I know I bought a number of digital downloads before that from companies that have all disappeared. I've long since conceded that I don't own these games but it doesn't make it any easier to swallow. I keep telling myself I'm going to buy more on GOG on principle and then I never do. Steam managed to get a big share of my library long before GOG became a thing for more modern games and that was the hook.

[hepcat]

Sheesh, even Daehawk has upgraded to Windows 11.

[Carpet_pissr]

Sheesh, even Daehawk has upgraded to Windows 11.

One doesn’t “upgrade” to Windows 11.

[LordMortis]

None of my machines are on Windows 11 and only one of them can/will upgrade. As I like my setup, when 10 goes away, I'm likely to end up going to Staples and getting a couple of $200 cheap 11 mobile stations. I keep thinking about getting one now because $200 for a laptop is nothing and who knows if/when Staples will stop those kinds of deals.

I see no reason to move to 11 until I need to. There wasn't a single feature I cared about or liked better and I no longer have to understand an OS to support other people. Maybe 12 will exist before 10's EoL and I'll like it better than 11. Much like the seemingly every other iterations behind 8 and Vista and etc...

[hepcat]

Sheesh, even Daehawk has upgraded to Windows 11.

One doesn’t “upgrade” to Windows 11.

One does if one knew how vulnerable windows 10 was/is in comparison.

[Blackhawk]

One doesn't if all but one PC in their house can't run 11, and replacing them isn't an option.

[Rumpy]

I keep telling myself I'm going to buy more on GOG on principle and then I never do. Steam managed to get a big share of my library long before GOG became a thing for more modern games and that was the hook.

Might have something to do with the fact that Steam gets more of the support than GOG versions. I've had GOG versions of games that weren't as up-to-date as those on Steam, for whatever reason. But I have some in my library that have seemingly been abandoned while still being updated on Steam. Also, I think sometimes GOG gets games a little later than Steam does depending on the games. Regardless, I've been buying more on GOG lately as I just find it more convenient.

[Blackhawk]

Steam also has the Steam Workshop, which makes any other service a deal-breaker on some titles, since many games have their entire modding community on the Workshop. And Steam has made it very, very difficult to download mods from the Workshop for games you don't own on Steam.

[Rumpy]

Oh yeah, good point about the workshop. I do feel that when became a widely supported thing, that it was a gamechanger. At first, it was limited to their own games, ie HL2, Gary's Mod, etc, but eventually made its way to other games supporting mods, and that made it very easy to download mods and keep them up to date. But to be honest, I haven't used the Steam Workshop very much, mostly because I guess I don't use many mods, if at all. The only game which I've used many is in ATS.

[Punisher]

I use the workshop for some game mods and nexus for most others.
I do have hundreds, if not thousands, of mods for tabletop simulator even though I've only actually played it a few times.