[Film] Star Wars Phase Four

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:42 pm

Ah...yes....I see. You know you're wrong and are just playing around.

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:33 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:42 pm Ah...yes....I see. You know you're wrong and are just playing around.

Darn it. You have figured me out.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Apr 12, 2023 1:49 pm

Space Leia's reaching out to you, Scuzz. Letting you know it's okay.

Won't you let Space Leia help you?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Nov 08, 2024 11:57 am

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Fri Nov 08, 2024 2:56 pm

I want there to be more Star Wars. But as with Star Trek I think I'm finally accepting it will never be of the variety or quality that I'd prefer.

Marvel and Star Wars have just profoundly lost their way (if Disney SW ever had it). There were some bright spots in the SW streaming series but on the whole they disappointed me. There just doesn't seem to be a viable compromise between what the suits, the writers, the classic fans, and the new/open-minded fans want or think they want.

I hope most of these projects see the light of day. Some of them have got to be good, right? But as is the slate is too cluttered. Like I think an open, disconnected universe is the right move. But this is the shotgun approach and if you have three or four different series on the go at the same time I think it's going to confuse casual fans. But realistically half of these projects aren't happening, right?

Also how did Simon Kinberg get a trilogy? Isn't his body of work as a writer pretty mediocre at best?

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:28 pm

First, I'm profoundly happy to NOT see Damon Lindeloff listed anywhere.

Second, sadly, nothing on that list excites me.
The last trilogy in general and The Last Jedi in particular absolutely killed my enthusiasm for Star Wars.

I'll still watch some of it but I doubt I'll ever love it like I used to.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Fri Nov 08, 2024 4:01 pm

Sudy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 2:56 pm But realistically half of these projects aren't happening, right?

Half seems optimistic.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Nov 08, 2024 4:21 pm

Sudy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 2:56 pm Also how did Simon Kinberg get a trilogy? Isn't his body of work as a writer pretty mediocre at best?

Star Wars: Rebels - created by, written by

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Fri Nov 08, 2024 4:41 pm

Brian wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:28 pm First, I'm profoundly happy to NOT see Damon Lindeloff listed anywhere.

I'd be ready to blacklist him for his association with Star Trek Into Darkness alone, but The Leftovers and Watchmen (2019) are serious counterpoints. What is he hated for, Lost?

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:00 pm

I guess I'm highly cynical about Disney SW. Nothing in that list save Dawn of the Jedi gets me excited.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Fri Nov 08, 2024 11:10 pm

Sudy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 4:41 pm
Brian wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:28 pm First, I'm profoundly happy to NOT see Damon Lindeloff listed anywhere.
I'd be ready to blacklist him for his association with Star Trek Into Darkness alone, but The Leftovers and Watchmen (2019) are serious counterpoints. What is he hated for, Lost?

Mostly ST Into Darkness but also Prometheus.
Then, to a lesser degree; Cowboys & Aliens and World War Z.

But mostly it's the first two. Ugh. Each is a case study in shitty writing.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sat Nov 09, 2024 12:36 am

The Original Trilogy offered so many possibilities. While everything may not be my Star Wars, those possibilities only enrich the Universe. More than anything, that's the magic George Lucas created -- an entire Galaxy of stories. You don't have to like them all.

In fact, Lucas created an impossible standard by leaving the Universe to the fans for years. Dave Filloni understood the heart of Star Wars and delivered in the cartoons. While his Disney+ series weren't all successful, at times they failed because they followed George Lucas's sensibilities. For example, the much maligned Boba Fett biker gang was inspired by American Graffiti and old culture.

I keep telling hepcat that more Star Wars is better, even if they don't all work for old guys like us. Without creative risks, Star Wars would have never existed in the first place. And many times, it takes coming back years later to appreciate.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Sat Nov 09, 2024 2:38 am

I guess my problem with the Rey project is that I don't really trust Disney to develop substantial lore to support her rebuilding the jedi order after how badly they messed up on the lorebuilding in the Sequels. They didn't really leave much to build upon, which in turn doesn't make me feel too excited.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Sat Nov 09, 2024 2:45 am

Isn't it the opposite? That they can go anywhere from here? I don't trust that where they go will be good. But my problem isn't with Rey the character, or even the new trilogy. It's what they did in The Rise of Skywalker. Which I realize may be part of your point. The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's not a storyline I need to see continued. But now they have the opportunity to tell a better version of what Luke's story could/should have been post-ROTJ, and indeed was in the original expanded universe.

I guess my perspective is that they can already do anything they want to with these other projects though, so I don't know who Rey's movie(s) is going to be for other than toy manufacturers and the very specific generation who grew up with the new trilogy as their main exposure to the universe and were young enough not to see its issues.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Sat Nov 09, 2024 3:20 pm

Yes, and no. Theoretically, they could go anywhere being that it's their franchise to do with what they want. But I don't trust them to be able to do anything interesting with what they have. Being that the problems with the trilogy were so fundamental, it feels like first they'd have to address the elephant in the room, ie admit that the movies had their issues and know how to identify them, but this being Disney, I don't see them doing that as they're far too entrenched. I'm actually a little surprised that they're still going forward with it, because it's only going to bring forth more questions, and I feel that if they haven't learned from their mistakes, that they're going to end up making all the same mistakes all over again.

But what's to rebuild, exactly? I guess that's my core issue with the thing. They hadn't bothered to build on the lore from what came before, when the ST should have been an opportunity to bridge the gap of the interim years. That's what I expected from a continuing saga. So, there's nothing interesting there to build upon when it comes to the backstory. And I don't expect them to start now.

And yeah, I suppose they could always do the Luke story, but that should have been done in the first place and it feels a little late for that now. They're going to have to do a hell of a lot more interesting stuff to get my attention.

Is that a satisfying answer?

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Nov 09, 2024 3:34 pm

As a casual SW fan, I'm curious: What was it that they did in the last Rey movie that was so destructive to the lore?

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Sat Nov 09, 2024 7:25 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 3:34 pm As a casual SW fan, I'm curious: What was it that they did in the last Rey movie that was so destructive to the lore?

JJ Abrams didn't destroy the lore, he just ran it through a mimeograph several hundred times, faxed the last copy to himself, had a 7-year-old copy it in crayon, and then released that version as Rise of Skywalker.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Sat Nov 09, 2024 7:54 pm

FWIW, I'd consider myself a casual fan too, and I don't subscribe to Disney+, so the only SW I've seen is theatrical.

But to answer the question, it's not so much what they did, but rather what they didn't do. I was excited at the potential of a new trilogy, as much as anyone. I was looking forward to seeing what they would do with the resources Disney had, and looking forward to learning what had happened in-between ROTJ and TFA. I was disappointed in the lack of lorebuilding. For example, why exactly are they fighting? Why is the Republic again fighting when the last time we've seen them was a huge victory against the Empire? Small stuff like that could have made a difference in how much lived-in it would have felt. In short, it didn't really do enough to build upon to set itself some backstory of its own. It's like they barely acknowledged the past, in having any history that would have supposedly affected them. Beyond the snippets of backstory for each of the characters, it was hardly developed, and the tech felt like no thought had been put into it. This is why the big reveal in RoS feels like such a low-point. I'd had heard rumours, but until I saw the opening star crawl, I didn't believe it as the whole Palpatine thing felt like it had come out of nowhere. If they had teased it throughout the movies, that would be one thing, but they hadn't. And that kind of thing is such a bombshell that it's hard to recover from.

TLDR: In short, I don't have much faith in Disney/LucasFilm to do the right thing anymore.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Nov 09, 2024 7:58 pm

Good enough, thanks.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:56 pm

It’s pretty clear they were building up Leia but that couldn’t work after Carrie Fisher died.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sat Nov 09, 2024 9:18 pm

I think Lando holds some promise. I wouldn't mind after that film a 3rd film that brings together Solo and Lando on some adventure we never heard about from their past knowing each other.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:13 pm

Zarathud wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 8:56 pm It’s pretty clear they were building up Leia but that couldn’t work after Carrie Fisher died.

Yeah, that was just unfortunate. No reunion with Luke and Leia in the end. Bad timing on their part.

But what's especially frustrating is that Disney was practically handed one of the biggest IPs on the planet and didn't know what to do with it. It's like they were paralyzed with indecision on how to move forward. They borrowed a lot from the OT, but at the same time, they didn't do nearly enough to build on it going forward. I mean yeah, it's science-fantasy rather than science-fiction, but I still expect the lore to make sense and be consistent.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:34 pm

All of the moving forward and fan service e was on Disney+ series.

JJ Abrams has now harmed both Star Trek and Star Wars. I think it’s why they’re going to try a bunch of different movies hoping to bring in the masses again.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 1:58 pm

Zarathud wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2024 10:34 pm All of the moving forward and fan service e was on Disney+ series.

Sorry, but we're casual fans, remember? First mistake is to automatically assume that everyone will have access to Disney+ and watch everything. We're talking about the very basics that should have been part of the movies to begin with, ie basic building blocks, not fan service. That's not being fair to fans in general. Put everything front and center where everyone can see it. Besides which, Disney+ didn't exist at the time the movies were released. That was done after.

And I felt the same way at the Darth Maul reveal at the end of Solo. Not having seen any of the Clone Wars cartoon series, I was thrown for a complete loop as it had felt like it had come completely out of the left field.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 2:10 pm

Call backs are a George Lucas thing. That’s why he started in the middle of the story.

The Star Wars Clone War series was available for years. If you missed it, that’s not Disney’s fault. Frankly, Clone Wars turned out to be closer to the prequels I expected from reading the Star Wars comics from Empire through Jedi. You’re missing out on what you want to see.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 2:22 pm

Rumpy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 1:58 pm And I felt the same way at the Darth Maul reveal at the end of Solo. Not having seen any of the Clone Wars cartoon series, I was thrown for a complete loop as it had felt like it had come completely out of the left field.

The Darth Maul cameo in Solo came completely out of left field even with having seen Clone Wars and Rebels prior.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 2:22 pm

I'm not reading a bunch of comics to get exposition that should have been a in a movie. I'm not a hardcore fan that obsesses over details. I don't have the inclination or the time. F that noise. Movies need to respect a viewer's time better.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 2:52 pm

How about playing Fortnight?

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 3:25 pm

Noooooooooooo!

wonderpug wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 2:22 pm
Rumpy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 1:58 pm And I felt the same way at the Darth Maul reveal at the end of Solo. Not having seen any of the Clone Wars cartoon series, I was thrown for a complete loop as it had felt like it had come completely out of the left field.
The Darth Maul cameo in Solo came completely out of left field even with having seen Clone Wars and Rebels prior.

Heh, thanks for making me feel better. It was such a complete WTF moment. And the Palpatine moment in RoS didn't endear itself any better.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 4:51 pm

Clone Wars is a pretty major commitment considering the story is so long and disjointed. I realize that's also one of the series's strengths, but we're talking 133 episodes. Though someone could certainly skip around with a guide I suppose. Unfortunately I could never get past the medium and the mental association with the prequel era that I was so frustrated with. Anyway, that's what the Star Wars universe is now. Fragmented. It may as well be comics. At this point it's up to us to choose the portions we enjoy and discard (or tolerate) the others. That just, IMO, leaves the whole feeling flawed. But that's the cost of a multimedia, multiple-times-expanded universe. What's the other option? Hard reboot? Star Trek (the movies) tried that and it's considered a disaster in most circles. (And I'm sure both movie series' failures aren't all Abrams's fault, but he's definitely gone from someone I watched with interest to someone I wish I'd never hear from again. Good successor to Lucas in that sense.)

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:16 pm

Sudy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 4:51 pm What's the other option? Hard reboot? Star Trek (the movies) tried that and it's considered a disaster in most circles.

Soft reboot. Star Trek did that before they tried the hard reboot, and it was a resounding success. Take the Empire, the Jedi, and the Rebellion and put them on the back burner, then jump ahead a few generations and find something new to tell stories about.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:22 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:16 pm
Sudy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 4:51 pm What's the other option? Hard reboot? Star Trek (the movies) tried that and it's considered a disaster in most circles.
Soft reboot. Star Trek did that before they tried the hard reboot, and it was a resounding success. Take the Empire, the Jedi, and the Rebellion and put them on the back burner, then jump ahead a few generations and find something new to tell stories about.

I think it's the Jedi that are the problem.

Rogue One and Andor are SW without the Force (well, almost), and they are awesome for it.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:32 pm

That and maybe hire a director with real vision (Denis Villesneuve maybe?). Allow them to plot the movies like a real trilogy from beginning to end. Have a committee at LF that ensures the structure and story beats are followed. There needs to be a consensus if there are different directors on the project. Because the major problem with the ST was that they didn't have any real plan or consensus going in, hence the mess we got.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:32 pm

Yeah, there's more to the universe than the Jedi. Hell, if you still want space wizards, explore some other force-using group.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:35 pm

+1 on Rogue One. That one was awesome, and it felt like it had gone back to the basics. It managed to capture the feel more than the ST ever did.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:42 pm

Rumpy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:35 pm +1 on Rogue One. That one was awesome, and it felt like it had gone back to the basics. It managed to capture the feel more than the ST ever did.

Have you watched Andor?

It's all of that and more.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:47 pm

No. Don't have Disney+ as stated. But I've been hearing good things about Andor. It's just not in the budget.

Hrdina · Post by **Hrdina** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 7:26 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:42 pm
Rumpy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:35 pm +1 on Rogue One. That one was awesome, and it felt like it had gone back to the basics. It managed to capture the feel more than the ST ever did.
Have you watched Andor?

It's all of that and more.

We were visiting my mom yesterday, and ended up watching both Solo and Rogue One on TV. Or, at least that's what was on the TV while we were talking in the living room and eating dinner. I had only seen each of those once previously - Rogue One in a theater in Dec 2016 and Solo only on TV IIRC.

My wife for some reason has not been interested in watching Andor. It's possible that watching Rogue One again might change her mind on that.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 7:31 pm

Rumpy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:47 pm No. Don't have Disney+ as stated. But I've been hearing good things about Andor. It's just not in the budget.

If it's possible to sign up for a one-month free trial to watch Andor, definitely do it.

Hrdina wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 7:26 pm My wife for some reason has not been interested in watching Andor. It's possible that watching Rogue One again might change her mind on that.

Oh, yes. Andor is a prequel series to Rogue One, and they have all of the same virtues. And I think watching Rogue One first is preferable, as Andor was only made because of R1.

It's almost like R1 is a gateway to the kind of non-Skywalker Star Wars story Andor shows us can actually happen.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Sun Nov 10, 2024 10:18 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 5:16 pm
Sudy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 4:51 pm What's the other option? Hard reboot? Star Trek (the movies) tried that and it's considered a disaster in most circles.
Soft reboot. Star Trek did that before they tried the hard reboot, and it was a resounding success. Take the Empire, the Jedi, and the Rebellion and put them on the back burner, then jump ahead a few generations and find something new to tell stories about.

Honestly, the reason I didn't mention that was because I consider The Force Awakens to be enough of a soft reboot already (or was initially meant to be). IMO we're already in soft reboot hell with all the proposals and existing Disney series taking the shotgun approach. The approach you're suggesting could work, but there needs to be a clean break and someone in charge of the cinematic universe who's motivated by intentional pacing and cohesion of vision rather than pumping out merchandising opportunities. Honestly, I don't see how this ever happens. I don't think executives believe they can make enough money off licensing that doesn't involve lightsabers and space Nazis and the damned name Skywalker. The best we can hope for for now is that the Mangold and Johnson projects see the light of day and do well (and you know, are good).