Israel–United States relations and associated politics

[El Guapo]

In a perfect world UNRWA would be reformed / reconstituted in a new body. But I'm not sure that the UN cares about admitting issues and/or dealing with the problems at UNRWA, and Netanyahu's government doesn't especially care about aid getting to Palestinians.

[Grifman]

Jews who traveled to Amsterdam to see their football team play are literally being hunted down and attacked in Amsterdam tonight by groups of Arabs.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/202 ... f7c8ba0000

[Max Peck]

Israeli football hooligans tear down Palestine flags in Amsterdam as taxi drivers 'fight back' in night of chaos ahead of Maccabi Tel Aviv's visit to Ajax

Israeli football hooligans tore down Palestine flags as they marched through Amsterdam in a Wednesday night of chaos ahead of Maccabi Tel Aviv's visit to Ajax.

Videos show dozens of hooded figures dressed fully in black cheering and cnahting 'f*** you Palestine' and 'ole' as one climbed halfway up the front of a building and removed a flag on the Rokin, a major street.

Footage also shows one thug thumping a taxi with crowbar before the driver takes off, while there have been reported clashes between the visiting hooligans and cabbies.

Meanwhile, clips shared by a prominent pro-hooligan page depict bust-ups purported to be between Maccabi fans and a group of Moroccan Ajax supporters. The account has previously shared reliable information, such as when Manchester United fans were attacked by Fenerbahce ultras in Istanbul in October.

Amsterdam police have not made any arrests and have not confirmed that the perpetrators were definitely Maccabi fans despite the tensions in the city centre.

[LawBeefaroni]

Sooo...standard football hooliganism and everybody wants to use it to demonize the other side?

[Max Peck]

Possibly? I was going to crack a joke about how sometimes a football hooligan is just a football hooligan, but after scanning for additional reporting I'd have to revise it to something along the lines of "There were football hooligans on both sides." If, you know, I was still inclined to make a joke about it.

[msduncan]

Sooo...standard football hooliganism and everybody wants to use it to demonize the other side?

Seeing football (soccer) hooliganism overseas makes me appreciate how generally peaceful American football games are (with a few exceptions obviously).

[Blackhawk]

Here's a link that isn't broken and doesn't have questionable history.

[El Guapo]

Sooo...standard football hooliganism and everybody wants to use it to demonize the other side?

Well, sounds a bit more than standard football hooliganism. It was more like hooliganism mixed with a pogrom flavoring, followed by a reprisal.

[El Guapo]

Also this is huge news that has been mostly (probably intentionally?) buried by the U.S. elections news, but Netanyahu fired the Israeli defense minister Yoav Gallant. Pretty nakedly political - the main issue is that Gallant refused to issue a near blanket exemption for the ultra-orthodox from being drafted into the IDF following the Israeli Supreme Court's order. The secondary background being that Gallant is successful, popular, and not a Netanyahu toady. The replacement, of course, is a full Netanyahu toady.

To do that while Israel is at war for reasons that can only really be understood in terms of Netanyahu's political interests is pretty reprehensible. And while it's probably long past the point where anyone in the international community trusts Israel's conduct of the war, I'm pretty sure that this will forfeit any credibility that the government has in the conduct of the war among the Israeli population that's not firmly in Netanyahu's camp.

[LawBeefaroni]

Sooo...standard football hooliganism and everybody wants to use it to demonize the other side?

Well, sounds a bit more than standard football hooliganism. It was more like hooliganism mixed with a pogrom flavoring, followed by a reprisal.

Yeah, with more information now it sounds like various groups used the "standard" hooliganism as a jumping off point for targeted attacks.

Ajax is well known to have some violent supporters and Maccabi fans flying in surely knew this. After the usual flare ups, it was taken to another level.



One of my good friends and his wife are there now (coincidentally - they're not there for soccer) and were caught in the Maccabi chants of "fuck you Palestine". Good to know that English is the preferred language of hate the world over.

[LawBeefaroni]

Also this is huge news that has been mostly (probably intentionally?) buried by the U.S. elections news, but Netanyahu fired the Israeli defense minister Yoav Gallant. Pretty nakedly political - the main issue is that Gallant refused to issue a near blanket exemption for the ultra-orthodox from being drafted into the IDF following the Israeli Supreme Court's order. The secondary background being that Gallant is successful, popular, and not a Netanyahu toady. The replacement, of course, is a full Netanyahu toady.

To do that while Israel is at war for reasons that can only really be understood in terms of Netanyahu's political interests is pretty reprehensible. And while it's probably long past the point where anyone in the international community trusts Israel's conduct of the war, I'm pretty sure that this will forfeit any credibility that the government has in the conduct of the war among the Israeli population that's not firmly in Netanyahu's camp.

Was this before or after the US election results were solidly Trump? Because it seems like a reaction to the Trump "mandate" and victory. He has already said he'd let Israel raze Palestine and Gaza. Given that, Netanyahu looks to be clearing a path to do so. Trump's victory tips the political calculus of firing a popular DM.

[El Guapo]

Also this is huge news that has been mostly (probably intentionally?) buried by the U.S. elections news, but Netanyahu fired the Israeli defense minister Yoav Gallant. Pretty nakedly political - the main issue is that Gallant refused to issue a near blanket exemption for the ultra-orthodox from being drafted into the IDF following the Israeli Supreme Court's order. The secondary background being that Gallant is successful, popular, and not a Netanyahu toady. The replacement, of course, is a full Netanyahu toady.

To do that while Israel is at war for reasons that can only really be understood in terms of Netanyahu's political interests is pretty reprehensible. And while it's probably long past the point where anyone in the international community trusts Israel's conduct of the war, I'm pretty sure that this will forfeit any credibility that the government has in the conduct of the war among the Israeli population that's not firmly in Netanyahu's camp.

Was this before or after the US election results were solidly Trump? Because it seems like a reaction to the Trump "mandate" and victory. He has already said he'd let Israel raze Palestine and Gaza. Given that, Netanyahu looks to be clearing a path to do so. Trump's victory tips the political calculus of firing a popular DM.

I think it was slightly before. IIRC I saw the headline around 6 pm on election day. Netanyahu may have figured that the election would be big news either way and a distraction from any U.S. blowback. Or the timing may have been driven more by Israeli domestic issues - who knows for sure.

[Isgrimnur]

One of my good friends and his wife are there now (coincidentally - they're not there for soccer) and were caught in the Maccabi chants of "fuck you Palestine". Good to know that English is the preferred language of hate the world over.

Well, the English worked pretty hard to make sure everyone knew it.

[Isgrimnur]

Amsterdam bans protests for three days following violent attacks on Israeli soccer fans

Amsterdam Mayor Femke Halsema said criminals on scooters searched the city in search of Maccabi supporters in “hit-and-run” attacks. “This is a terrible moment for our city … I am very ashamed of the behavior that was shown last night,” she said in a Friday news conference.

Amsterdam authorities said Friday morning that five injured Israeli soccer fans have since been released from the hospital, and 20 to 30 other people were lightly injured. In total, 63 individuals were arrested and 10 remain in custody, police said.

Amsterdam has implemented several additional security measures in the wake of Thursday’s unrest. A ban on demonstrations in the city was implemented on Friday and will be in place for three days until Sunday, according to Halsema. There will also be a bolstered police presence.

The mayor also announced a ban on “face-covering clothing” and “carrying objects” that could lead to disturbances of public order.

[LawBeefaroni]

Last night I was stuck between pro-Palestinian/"anti-zionist" protestors and people trying to go to a Michael Rapaport show. The hateful shit being spewed from the protesters was pretty shocking. And they were very majority white. Congratulations, you've been used.


https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/pr ... t-chicago/

[El Guapo]

Pro-Palestinian demonstrators in Amsterdam set fire to tram, chant ‘Jewish cancer’

[Punisher]

Well I'm sure that will help the situation.

[Pyperkub]

Also this is huge news that has been mostly (probably intentionally?) buried by the U.S. elections news, but Netanyahu fired the Israeli defense minister Yoav Gallant. Pretty nakedly political - the main issue is that Gallant refused to issue a near blanket exemption for the ultra-orthodox from being drafted into the IDF following the Israeli Supreme Court's order. The secondary background being that Gallant is successful, popular, and not a Netanyahu toady. The replacement, of course, is a full Netanyahu toady.

To do that while Israel is at war for reasons that can only really be understood in terms of Netanyahu's political interests is pretty reprehensible. And while it's probably long past the point where anyone in the international community trusts Israel's conduct of the war, I'm pretty sure that this will forfeit any credibility that the government has in the conduct of the war among the Israeli population that's not firmly in Netanyahu's camp.

Was this before or after the US election results were solidly Trump? Because it seems like a reaction to the Trump "mandate" and victory. He has already said he'd let Israel raze Palestine and Gaza. Given that, Netanyahu looks to be clearing a path to do so. Trump's victory tips the political calculus of firing a popular DM.

Yeah I saw it before. Probably Sunday or Monday.

[Victoria Raverna]

Apparently a lot of media were wrong about the riots:

[hepcat]

There was enough bad behavior on both sides to go around, from what I’ve read.

[Victoria Raverna]

There was enough bad behavior on both sides to go around, from what I’ve read.

Yeah, but it was mostly started by the supporters of the Israel's team against supporters of the opposite team. The video that showed Arab people attacking an Israeli is actually a video of Israel supporters attacking a local.

The reprisal against those supporters became hateful against Israeli and Jews but there were also spread of anti-Arab hate from the other side.

[Victoria Raverna]

[LordMortis]

https://www.npr.org/2024/11/19/nx-s1-51 ... -civilians

NPR appropriately no longer let you clip selected quotes.

Short of it Israel are using drones as snipers and the suggestion is that they may using them against civilian targets and by may I mean humanitarian aid are testifying to this.

[Max Peck]

https://www.npr.org/2024/11/19/nx-s1-51 ... -civilians

NPR appropriately no longer let you clip selected quotes.

Copypasta works just fine for me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:

Last week British surgeon Nizam Mamode testified in front of a committee in the U.K. Parliament.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

NIZAM MAMODE: What I think I found particularly disturbing...

SUMMERS: Dr. Mamode had recently returned from working at a hospital in Central Gaza, and he told parliamentary members what he witnessed, including...

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

MAMODE: A bomb would drop, maybe on a crowded, tented area. And then the drones would come down, and...

SUMMERS: A new kind of drone in the Israeli arsenal, one with a gun and a camera attached that can shoot remotely.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

MAMODE: So the drones would come down and pick off civilians, children. And we had description after description. This is not, you know, an occasional thing. This was day after day after day.

[LordMortis]

Weird. I did not work and now it does.

[Max Peck]

I find that happens now and then on a lot of websites, where I select some text but the copy command in the context menu is greyed out. I have no idea what causes it or why it happens sporadically rather than consistently. IIRC, control-C usually does work even if the menu doesn't.

Anyway, yeah, these drones give off a very Terminator Hunter-Killer vibe. It sounds like they're currently using AI to enhance precision targeting, but I'd guess the remote link would work just as well with an AI giving the kill order as they do with a human in the decision loop.

[LawBeefaroni]

A year old but still relevant.

I’ve been paying close attention to the war in Israel and Gaza; watching a lot of footage. Came across some video of Palestinians — probably late teens/early 20s — throwing stones at vehicles in a chaotic protest on a road. This was, I believe, on Saturday, and it wasn’t clear to me whether the footage was real time or from recent protests.

Suddenly, one of the most active stone-throwers pulled up his right leg, his face knotted in a grimace of pain, and he began to hop away on his good leg. His comrades abandoned their pile of rocks and helped him down an incline and out of the frame.

I knew immediately what had happened: The stone-thrower had taken a .22lr round to the ankle or shin.

...

For years, the IDF has been deploying integrally suppressed .22 caliber Ruger 10/22 carbines, originally as a “less lethal” option for riot control. They are also used as a “hush puppy” to take out dogs and lights in raid operations. Because Israel actually adheres to rules of engagement and laws of combat, the Israeli Judge Advocate General tested the effect of fire from the .22lr and reclassified it as a lethal weapon, which restricts its use.

But clearly, it was in the field in the weeks preceding the explosion of violence in Hamas’ Operation Al Aqsa Flood.

Guardian

Medics in the Gaza Strip have reported treating an influx of protesters who appear to have been deliberately targeted in the ankle by Israeli forces in recent unrest at the volatile boundary of the blockaded Palestinian enclave.

At least one person has been killed and dozens more wounded since demonstrations by groups of young men, some of them throwing stones and molotov cocktails, began in mid-September.

[Dogstar]

[Unagi]

So, in a normal world - that would seem like a big deal.

Is this a big deal? Or is this just that silly international criminal court that always is issuing arrest warrants for world leaders?

[Victoria Raverna]

ICC issued arrest warrant for Putin? US urged all members of the International Criminal Court (ICC) to comply with an arrest warrant that the court issued for Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Now that ICC issued arrest warrant for Netanyahu, Is US going to urged members of ICC to comply, too?

[LordMortis]

Don't worry, come Jan 16th the US will back of on Putin too.

[hepcat]

Do you mean January 20th? As far as I know, January 16th is National Do Nothing Day. A holiday I have a special place in my heart for.

As for the ICC ruling, the Muslim Americans who worked so tirelessly to help end the dems chances at defeating Trump will be promptly rewarded with an escalation in the deaths of Palestinians, possibly leading to their completely removal from that region, as Trump tries his best to hide his gleeful grin at the thought of their suffering.

[LordMortis]

Yeah, the 20th. I'm trying not to think too hard about it.

[hepcat]

Then you should be celebrating Jan. 16th with me! I've got a spare easy chair and an extra tv tray!

[LordMortis]

I'd say that totally works for me but celebrating sounds like too much work that day. At best I will observe it with you from afar but only briefly from my own damned couch.

[hepcat]

I'd call you on the 16th to wish you Happy Do Nothing Day, but that would require...well...you know....doing something.

[Isgrimnur]

Mongolia didn't arrest Putin when he went there, so it's anyone's guess.

[Victoria Raverna]

Is FRANCE24 overreacting? Netanyahu declared "a war against Israel army and national security service" ?

[Max Peck]

The Times of Israel has a fairly detailed report of what is going on with that.

PM claims suspects in leaks case treated as terrorists; says vital intel is kept from him

In a nearly nine-minute video statement posted to social media on Saturday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu claimed the ongoing investigation into the alleged theft and leak of classified documents, including by his aides, was a “witch hunt” targeting him and his advisers. He lambasted the prosecution and investigators for what he argued was selective enforcement aimed at harming him and “an entire political camp.”

“This reality, in which young people are held like the worst terrorists, handcuffed for days, days in which they are prevented from accessing their lawyers, and violating their basic rights as citizens, shakes me,” Netanyahu said in his statement, referring to aide Eli Feldstein and an IDF reservist who were both indicted on Thursday on charges relating to breaches of state security.

It was the prime minister’s most strident criticism to date of the investigation into the leak of a stolen, classified military document by unofficial Netanyahu spokesman Eli Feldstein, allegedly with the involvement of other officials at the Prime Minister’s Office, to German newspaper Bild.

Feldstein was charged on Thursday with transferring classified information with the intent to harm the state, a charge that can carry a sentence of life in prison, as well as illicit possession of classified information and obstruction of justice.

Feldstein is accused of leaking the document, which was stolen from an IDF database by the other defendant, an IDF noncommissioned officer (NCO), in a bid to sway public opinion against a truce-hostage deal in Gaza. He allegedly received the document in June, and leaked it after six hostages were murdered by their Hamas captors at the end of August, when public criticism of Netanyahu’s handling of negotiations on a hostage deal was at a height.

The Bild report on the document highlighted Hamas’s obdurate strategy regarding the hostages, and Netanyahu cited it after its publication as ostensible reinforcement of his refusal to sanction a deal to end the war in return for the release of the hostages.

Calling it some sort of civil war seems over the top. It sounds like people in Netanyahu's camp leaked the document in order to undercut public support/demand for a negotiated settlement that would see the return of the surviving hostages. Since the national security apparatus has gone after the leakers rather than ignoring or covering up the leak, Netanyahu is attacking them in order to protect himself.

[Isgrimnur]

Ministers to approve Hezbollah truce Tuesday; northern mayors decry ‘surrender deal’

Metula Mayor David Azoulay rips into the government amid growing reports that a ceasefire with Hezbollah could soon be reached, denouncing the pending agreement as “a surrender deal” during an interview with Channel 12 news.

Kiryat Shmona Mayor Avichai Stern also tears into “the surrender deal.”

“This agreement hastens [a repeat of] October 7 in the north and this cannot happen,” Stern writes on Facebook.

“I don’t understand how we went from total victory to total surrender,” he adds, referring to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s slogan for the war.

“Where will our residents return to? To a destroyed city without security or a horizon? Someone here has lost it.”

Both Metula and Kiryat Shmona are near the border with Lebanon and are among the communities most devastated by the near-daily Hezbollah attacks on the north over the past year.