Shutdown 3: the Shutdownening

[milo]

"Why is that bad?"

Because McCarthy is a Republican from a conservative district, not a Democrat.

Why is that bad for Democrats?

I don't think I understand your question. McCarthy isn't a Democrat, and his decisions don't take Democrats into account, except to oppose them. McCarthy trying to work with Democrats is bad for McCarthy, because he is a conservative Republican from a conservative district, and he doesn't want anything that Democrats want, and his constituents aren't willing to compromise with Democrats in any way.

[Carpet_pissr]

Dems are going to let McCarthy burn, which is probably the correct decision.

I'm reading that McCarthy's interesting decision to go on national tv on Sunday and blame the near miss on Democrats as part of the deciding factor.

The guy's definitely an ass, and I have little sympathy for him given what he's done to get here. I wish I had more confidence in what happens next, though, and also wish I had more confidence that Democrats know what they're doing.

The out for Democrats here that there is no winning this game. They just need to hopefully take the least dumb course through this mess.

As to letting McCarthy burn? He did everything to hang himself here and they should only bail them out if he gives them enough of a win to make it worth it. That's probably not going to happen but guess all we can do is watch the chaos wheel turn.

Yeah, I know. And like I said even if Democrats were interested in a deal, McCarthy's burned his credibility and his relationships so badly by this point that it's not easy to imagine a deal that's both good enough and where Democrats would have faith in its execution.

We'll just hope for the best, I guess.

Or...OR...the PERFECT time to pull a fire alarm!!!

[Victoria Raverna]

"Why is that bad?"

Because McCarthy is a Republican from a conservative district, not a Democrat.

Why is that bad for Democrats?

I don't think I understand your question. McCarthy isn't a Democrat, and his decisions don't take Democrats into account, except to oppose them. McCarthy trying to work with Democrats is bad for McCarthy, because he is a conservative Republican from a conservative district, and he doesn't want anything that Democrats want, and his constituents aren't willing to compromise with Democrats in any way.

Why it is bad for McCarthy is bad for Democrats? Isn't that a good thing?

So Democrats should work with McCarthy since what is bad for McCarthy is good for Democrats.

[Zarathud]

McCarthy was not trustworthy. I fully expect he hoped to use Democrat support to get Republicans to vote for a Republican budget, not a compromise budget. His positioning showed he planned to pull a fast one.

[milo]

"Why is that bad?"

Because McCarthy is a Republican from a conservative district, not a Democrat.

Why is that bad for Democrats?

I don't think I understand your question. McCarthy isn't a Democrat, and his decisions don't take Democrats into account, except to oppose them. McCarthy trying to work with Democrats is bad for McCarthy, because he is a conservative Republican from a conservative district, and he doesn't want anything that Democrats want, and his constituents aren't willing to compromise with Democrats in any way.

Why it is bad for McCarthy is bad for Democrats? Isn't that a good thing?

So Democrats should work with McCarthy since what is bad for McCarthy is good for Democrats.

WAT. McCarthy literally said that he would not work with the Democrats even if they voted to keep him in the Speaker's chair. There was no compromise to be had there. So this whole line of speculation is pointless.

[Kraken]

My dad taught me that "a man is as good as his word." McCarthy is not a good man.

I have no idea how the upcoming circus will play out, but bearing in mind that the speaker is second in the line of succession, let's hope the end result isn't too awful. If they were to appoint trump, for example, Biden and Harris would be at high risk of defenestration.

[waitingtoconnect]

Trump getting back into power via the speakers chair has long been a QAnon fantasy hasn’t it?

[El Guapo]

Interesting thread. Basically arguing that it's not at all clear that McCarthy *intended* to avoid a shutdown. His "no you can't read this bill we're voting on it now" shenanigans may have been intended to get Democrats to vote down a clean extension so that they could then be blamed for the shutdown. Makes some sense.

[Pyperkub]

Fun song/video for the thread (h/t qt3):

[Smoove_B]

It's that time of year again:

Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson on Sunday announced a new temporary government funding proposal with key amendments from the original bill he put forward earlier this month, going against former President Donald Trump’s wishes and making some concessions to Democrats.

The new bill would fund the government through Dec. 20 and does not include any part of the SAVE Act, the Trump-backed election security proposal that would require people to show proof of citizenship to register as a voter.

In a letter to colleagues on Sunday, Johnson said the “very narrow, bare-bones” proposal would include “only the extensions that are absolutely necessary” to avoid a government shutdown.

Congressional Republicans and Democrats have eight days to strike a deal on government funding. If no resolution is reached, the government will go into partial shutdown on Oct. 1 at 12:01 a.m. E.T., just over a month away from the November election when party control will be up for grabs in both the White House and Congress.

[waitingtoconnect]

House Republicans: if Donald trump isn’t preemptively declared the winner of the election then we will shut the government down.

[LordMortis]

Why not fund until March? Why after the election but before the new Congress is settled? What is it about December?

[Unagi]

Why not fund until March? Why after the election but before the new Congress is settled? What is it about December?

I imagine they fear they wont control Congress after the new Congress is settled?

[LordMortis]

Why not fund until March? Why after the election but before the new Congress is settled? What is it about December?

I imagine they fear they wont control Congress after the new Congress is settled?

[Isgrimnur]

If they know they don't control the House in January, there's no point in funding things past December.

[Pyperkub]

Why not fund until March? Why after the election but before the new Congress is settled? What is it about December?

I think the must pass defense bills are usually December.

And after the election things calm down for those getting hit by the shrapnel of the bomb throwers.

[Unagi]

If they know they don't control the House in January, there's no point in funding things past December.

Isn't that what I said?

Kinda

I suppose it's the same coin, other side.

[Isgrimnur]

Close enough for government work.

[Max Peck]

Why not fund until March? Why after the election but before the new Congress is settled? What is it about December?

My WAG would be that they might want to fund the government until after the election because the polling/projections that I've seen show them just edging out the Democrats to retain control of the House and Senate, and they might not want to rock the boat too much in the final run-up to the elections. Shutting down the government while people are voting might boost turnout for the Democrats more than it does for the GOP.

[Smoove_B]

It's that time again, with another shutdown looming:

As Congress returns this week for one last burst of activity before it wraps up the session, it faces a key deadline of Dec. 20 to avert a government shutdown.

Democrats and Republicans appear resigned to passing a continuing resolution, or CR, that would temporarily fund the government into early 2025 — most likely March — as they run out of time to strike a full funding deal this year. The two parties haven't even agreed on an overall spending level for the new fiscal year, let alone how to allocate the money across parts of the government.

...

The upside for Republicans in punting the deadline is that they would have more leverage to shape government funding in the new year, with President-elect Donald Trump returning to the White House and the GOP taking control of the Senate and maintaining a narrow House majority.

The big downside is it would create a critical deadline early in the Trump presidency, potentially taking valuable time away from confirming his nominees through the Senate and from the big party-line bill that Republicans are looking at to extend his tax cuts and advance his immigration and border security agenda.

“We’ve got to do a lot of things at the same time,” House Majority Leader Steve Scalise, R-La., said of the first 100 days of Trump’s second term. “We’re going to be walking and chewing gum.”

Is it ironic when the very same government you're preparing to dismantle is the same government you need to fund?

[LordMortis]

I'm tempted to root for "is this not what you've been fighting for?" and shut it down. Not tempted enough to actually root for it but tempted just the same. I'm well past my recommended dose libertarian, burn it to the ground designs from the bleachers, so long as there no chance to burn it to the ground and my investment in and hope for the responsibility and accountability of the federal government for the next few years? Well, it's about as much as I have for the Supreme Court...

[Skinypupy]

“We’ve got to do a lot of things at the same time,” House Majority Leader Steve Scalise, R-La., said of the first 100 days of Trump’s second term. “We’re going to be walking and chewing gum.”

I love how he says this as if it's some sort of difficult task to accomplish.

Although it is MAGA, so...

[Smoove_B]

He's so used to promoting and operating in complete dysfunction, the idea of actually doing his job seems Herculean, I'm sure.

[Max Peck]

He's there to legislate and chew gum. And he has a metric shit-ton of gum on hand.

[hepcat]

Republicans are going to have to fight on two fronts as soon as Trump and his campaign promises hit Washington. Much of what Trump promised (not taxing/not touching social security, supporting IVF, etc.) fly in the face of what they’ve said they want. It’s going to be an….interesting 2 years before the couch fucker is sworn in after Trump’s arteries wave the white flag.

[Isgrimnur]

Johnson faces brewing GOP rebellion after farm aid deal collapses

The threat of a new wave of GOP defections among farm district Republicans presents a fresh challenge for Johnson, who is already navigating a narrow majority and opposition from his own right flank as he tries to fund the government before a shutdown Dec. 21. And it will likely force the speaker to find more Democratic votes before the current funding runs out Friday.

[LordMortis]

GOP to cut billions in funding to rural America that overwhelming voted them in office, destabilizing food production in an already inflationary market where workers making sustenance wages are already being threatened with cuts and deportation. Blame democrats while they dine with TFG. Sounds about right.

[hepcat]

President Elect Musk and Vice President Trump tanked the budget deal, so hang on folks. Here we go.

[Grifman]

You know, I would normally think “This is crazy” but I am past that now. As a nation we are going to get what we deserve and what we voted for - stupidity and chaos. The Democrats should do nothing to protect the Republicans from themselves and the nation from the consequences of this choice.

And yes, Musk's effectively the shadow president. We’ll see how long those two egos can co-exist.

[El Guapo]

I still assume that they'll *probably* do some last minute funding extension, but Musk certainly makes that less likely. We'll see!

[Skinypupy]

Lord Elon, First of His Name, has decided that us pesky peons simply don’t require a functioning government anymore and are better off without one. He’s here to make the decisions now, so there is nothing to fear.

All Hail Lord Elon!

[LordMortis]

You know, I would normally think “This is crazy” but I am past that now. As a nation we are going to get what we deserve and what we voted for - stupidity and chaos. The Democrats should do nothing to protect the Republicans from themselves and the nation from the consequences of this choice.

And yes, Musk's effectively the shadow president. We’ll see how long those two egos can co-exist.

I'm with you in your presentation and diagnosis. I'm this >< close to being with your prescription. I just can't take that very last step toward drazzil. Though, I'm staring it in the face and it's daring me to cross over and take me with it in a fit "fuck it!" and have been doing so since November. And nope, I'm still not over my family, my district, my state, and my nation's November. At this pace, the best I will be looking at is after the inauguration and the new Congress. And that's best case.

I wonder what some late social security checks or military payroll would do. That's the bulk of our spending right?

[El Guapo]

You know, I would normally think “This is crazy” but I am past that now. As a nation we are going to get what we deserve and what we voted for - stupidity and chaos. The Democrats should do nothing to protect the Republicans from themselves and the nation from the consequences of this choice.

And yes, Musk's effectively the shadow president. We’ll see how long those two egos can co-exist.

I'm with you in your presentation and diagnosis. I'm this >< close to being with your prescription. I just can't take that very last step toward drazzil. Though, I'm staring it in the face and it's daring me to cross over and take me with it in a fit "fuck it!" and have been doing so since November. And nope, I'm still not over my family, my district, my state, and my nation's November. At this pace, the best I will be looking at is after the inauguration and the new Congress. And that's best case.

I wonder what some late social security checks or military payroll would do. That's the bulk of our spending right?

God, what a reality we live in where Drazzil may be proven right about politics.

[Grifman]

I still assume that they'll *probably* do some last minute funding extension, but Musk certainly makes that less likely. We'll see!

Uh, that’s really what this is. The govt will shut down on Sat. Doubt they have enough time to get a bill in place. Remember the Dems still control the Senate - the Republicans just can’t pass whatever Trump/Musk want for at least a few more months.

[Smoove_B]

I have no doubt they're more than happy to shut things down until 1/20/25 when magically they'll just open everything back up again, without any short or long term consequences at all. It's 2018 all over again.

[LordMortis]

God, what a reality we live in where Drazzil may be proven right about politics.

It really feels like we are on the brink. Only this is a slightly different. He wanted to watch it burn, much like apparently no small portion of the American electorate. It's just that more and more of us and resigning oursevles (or even actively moving) along the continuum toward "If you want blood, you got it." I don't want to go there but I feel myself being dragged. It will hurt me and 'us' as badly as it hurts 'them' to get what they are begging for.

[Grifman]

I think it would be very funny if people stated regretting their votes for Trump before he is even inaugurated.

[Skinypupy]

I have no doubt they're more than happy to shut things down until 1/20/25 when magically they'll just open everything back up again, without any short or long term consequences at all. It's 2018 all over again.

I agree.

Count on holiday apathy/politics fatigue to blunt much of the pushback, with a combination of "We told you things would be hard" and "You didn't literally die in the past 30 days, so government can't really be that important" to handle the rest. Lord knows the media won't push back, and I imagine we'd see endless "Do we really need a government after all?" articles for a month.

Once they're in, run the same play Elon did with Twitter. Ditch the majority of the workforce but keep just enough people around to ensure that very basic functionality is met. Farm out whatever pieces can be privatized for profit (poor people who can't afford services can just get fucked), then complain endlessly about how "inefficient" the 25% of remaining workers are and position it as "see, government doesn't work".

Place all the blame on Democrats because reasons, then count on MAGA fanaticism and the third of the country who doesn't pay any attention at all to echo everything you say.

Where we go from there...who the fuck knows.

[Grifman]

The really dumb thing is in a couple of months the Republicans can do pretty much what they want. So why provoke a crisis now? Some people just thrive on chaos and really want to burn it down, I guess. They aren’t interested in actually governing.

[Smoove_B]

So why provoke a crisis now?

They can't resist the opportunity to cause suffering, most likely.