The Hunter Biden Investigation

[Grifman]

Everything that happened to Hunter was, first and foremost, an attempt to attack the president.

That is entirely true, but it doesn’t take away the fact that HBiden did break the law. He did lie on his application for a gun and he did fail to file and pay his taxes. And while not illegal, he did trade on his father’s name to to enhance numerous business dealings. So he was also responsible for what happened.

[Smoove_B]

And we certainly want to maintain the illusion here that no one is above the law.

[Scraper]

Trump's election proved the pardon won't cost Biden anything. Integrity doesn't matter to voters anymore. Biden did what he could, even stepping aside.

Leaving Hunter Biden exposed to further persecution would have been foolish, with Trump promising retribution for perceived wrongs.

This exactly, it's time the Dems wake up and realize they aren't dealing with the Reagan or even Bush GOP anymore. They need to start thinking and acting like things aren't normal as long as MAGA is around.

[Scraper]

Everything that happened to Hunter was, first and foremost, an attempt to attack the president.

That is entirely true, but it doesn’t take away the fact that HBiden did break the law. He did lie on his application for a gun and he did fail to file and pay his taxes. And while not illegal, he did trade on his father’s name to to enhance numerous business dealings. So he was also responsible for what happened.

I would bet upwards of 60% of the people who apply for a gun lie on it when it comes to drug and alcohol abuse. Doesn't make it right, but it does point out that politics crept into how his case played out.

[GreenGoo]

I'm glad he did it. A giant middle finger to the "rule of law" party who have proven otherwise again and again, and another to his own party for the embarrassment and abandonment after he put country before his own well being and desires for the end years of his life.

Fucking A Biden. Well done.

And if I see one more "did this despite promising not to" headline, my head might actually explode. If you're not going to hold drumpf accountable for literally anything, then you can go to hell when poo poo a true american hero for protecting his family against promised retribution.

What a timeline.

[Max Peck]

Meh, compared to the deluge of insurrectionist pardons coming next month, it's difficult to be too critical of this one. And at least he's not going to be appointed to a cushy ambassadorship in 4 years.

[El Guapo]

Everything that happened to Hunter was, first and foremost, an attempt to attack the president.

That is entirely true, but it doesn’t take away the fact that HBiden did break the law. He did lie on his application for a gun and he did fail to file and pay his taxes. And while not illegal, he did trade on his father’s name to to enhance numerous business dealings. So he was also responsible for what happened.

I would bet upwards of 60% of the people who apply for a gun lie on it when it comes to drug and alcohol abuse. Doesn't make it right, but it does point out that politics crept into how his case played out.

You could probably make a substantive defense of pardoning Hunter on the gun form charges, which is an unusual charge that most people wouldn't face. I don't think there is much of a defense for pardoning him on the tax evasion charges.

That said...I can't tell if this is just partisanship, but I'm fine with him pardoning Hunter. I get the instinct to protect one's son, it's hard to say given the state of MAGA rage what else they might want to do regarding Hunter, and with the election of Trump what's one more instance of bad government on top of everything else (and it's not like Trump is any more likely to abuse the pardon power given the pardon of Hunter).

[Zarathud]

Hunter paid the taxes and had worked out a settlement before the deal was thrown out over the terms on the gun charges. Remember that the Republicans investigated Hunter Biden thoroughly and didn’t find anything that wasn’t resolved.

[Unagi]

(and it's not like Trump is any more likely to abuse the pardon power given the pardon of Hunter).

Yeah, the 'slippery slope' argument is probably the most sound argument against the pardon, but it's a pointless argument to make when the slope is vertical and it's covered with bacon grease.

[RM2]

I also approve of this pardon, glad to hear about it.

[El Guapo]

(and it's not like Trump is any more likely to abuse the pardon power given the pardon of Hunter).

Yeah, the 'slippery slope' argument is probably the most sound argument against the pardon, but it's a pointless argument to make when the slope is vertical and it's covered with bacon grease.

I mean, this will contribute to public cynicism and make it an easier environment for Trump when he issues his inevitable abusive pardons (talking heads are probably already writing their whataboutBiden paragraphs for their pardon columns). But it's just hard to imagine any of that mattering, especially given how few legal restrictions there are on pardons.

[Blackhawk]

Anyone paying enough attention to it to know why it's controversial is either already thoroughly cynical, or else they already see Biden as evil and corrupt due to the right's propaganda.

After the bullshit that Biden has had to put up with over the last 16 years, more power to him for shutting down one last abuse.

[Kraken]

Biden might be able to blunt the blowback from pardoning Hunter if he follows with a robust list of pardons and commutations for less privileged and perhaps more deserving supplicants.

[Grifman]

I was just reminded elsewhere that Jimmy Carter pardoned his brother Billy for acting as an unregistered foreign agent, and the first Bush pardoned his brother Neil for involvement in the S&L scandal, so this is not unprecedented. Nor all that significant in the greater scheme of things since l had not remembered either event.

There are two opposing sides of the coin here. First, I have no doubt that Trump would try and place his thumb on the scales of justice as he has literally promised to do. And for that reason, I sympathize with Biden. Yet, Democrats have been pushing that they are different than MAGA, that they uphold the rule of law and this goes against st that. If they end up acting no different than MAGA what’s left. But in the other hand, a significant number of the voters don’t seem to care, so we are in a very bad place, regardless.


Edit: I should also add that MAGA Roger Stone avoided prison for tax evasion by paying $2 million in back taxes and fines. But the nuance is likely to be lost on MAGA world.

[LordMortis]

There are two opposing sides of the coin here. First, I have no doubt that Trump would try and place his thumb on the scales of justice as he has literally promised to do. And for that reason, I sympathize with Biden. Yet, Democrats have been pushing that they are different than MAGA, that they uphold the rule of law and this goes against st that. If they end up acting no different than MAGA what’s left. Bit in the other hand, a significant number of the voters don’t seem to care, so we are in a very bad place, regardless.

All of this.

[Zarathud]

The difference is the hypocrisy of MAGA calling for Hunter Biden to be charged for lying on a gun application. The taxes were paid.

The next President is a felon convicted for falsifying his business records, interfering with an election, defaming those he attacked, and brags about evading taxes. If you can’t see the difference, you aren’t looking.

[$iljanus]

Biden might be able to blunt the blowback from pardoning Hunter if he follows with a robust list of pardons and commutations for less privileged and perhaps more deserving supplicants.

Heh, we’ll see. The issue of racial inequalities and pardons predates Hunter and I won’t disagree about the politics involved in his case but I thought Hunter was going to be sentenced this month and if the sentencing was appropriate he should have served it but if it was ridiculous he could have gotten a commuted sentence. He could have gotten from the judge something like probation which would have been a just sentence but we'll never know. But it’s nice that Hunter gets to fail upwards I suppose and get on with his life.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/12/02/ ... privilege/

Criminal justice reform advocates also pointed to the higher rates of incarceration for people of color compared to white people, in criticizing Biden for not using his clemency power to help others convicted of drug-related crimes.

State Senator Jamie Eldridge, a Marlborough Democrat who chairs the Senate’s criminal justice reform caucus, said Biden’s decision “makes it harder for all Democrats to make the point, especially for our court system, that if someone is convicted, that their justice needs to be carried out.”

“As compassionate as a father is for a son,” Eldridge added, “Joe Biden is the president, and there are tens of thousands of people who have been convicted of federal offenses who have been waiting for years, in many cases decades, for pardons or commuting their sentences.”

Eldridge criticized Biden for being “fairly behind” his predecessors in issuing commutations. Beyond issuing sweeping proclamations, such as one pardoning thousands of people convicted of marijuana possession under federal law, the president has granted clemency fewer times than either Trump or former President Barack Obama. Many outgoing presidents tend to use such powers more toward the end of their term.

[Isgrimnur]

List of people granted executive clemency by Barack Obama

Obama holds the record for the largest single-day use of the clemency power, granting 330 commutations on January 19, 2017, his last full day in office. He also issued more commutations than the past 13 presidents combined.

Pardons
- January 17, 2017
Commutations
- January 17, 2017
- January 19, 2017

But they're going to throw Biden under the bus on December 2nd?

Oh, and I missed where those people that have been waiting for decades are all the fault of the guy that's been in office for four years.

[msduncan]

<Checks notes>

As long as the person dodging the rule of law is on your team, it's okay. Bonus points for celebrating

<nods>

It's no wonder so many Americans are so disengaged these days. Both sides' politicians do it. Both sides supporters display the same behavior when it happens.

[Isgrimnur]

Why let little things like context or details enter into it? Every pardon is equal to every other pardon.

[El Guapo]

<Checks notes>

As long as the person dodging the rule of law is on your team, it's okay. Bonus points for celebrating

<nods>

It's no wonder so many Americans are so disengaged these days. Both sides' politicians do it. Both sides supporters display the same behavior when it happens.

You're not wrong. Substantively I'm not going to defend it. It's mostly just: (1) on the list of things that I'm freaking out about currently, this ranks low; and (2) semi-related, I am skeptical that this is going to matter in the long-run (except for Hunter Biden, obviously).

[GreenGoo]

<Checks notes>

As long as the person dodging the rule of law is on your team, it's okay. Bonus points for celebrating

<nods>

It's no wonder so many Americans are so disengaged these days. Both sides' politicians do it. Both sides supporters display the same behavior when it happens.

This isn't twitter, but thanks for treating it like your own personal toilet anyway.

See Zarathud's posts for the facts, if those are ever important to you.

[Anonymous Bosch]

<Checks notes>

As long as the person dodging the rule of law is on your team, it's okay. Bonus points for celebrating

<nods>

It's no wonder so many Americans are so disengaged these days. Both sides' politicians do it. Both sides supporters display the same behavior when it happens.

As Jon Stewart observed on The Daily Show:

11 years is a very specific and not rounded amount of time.

But you know what, ladies and gentlemen? Hypocrisy isn't illegal. Nor is it particularly unusual in politics. It's not like he's ever going to run again. So why not take care of your kid, even if you said you weren't going to? I respect it, I don't have a problem with it. The problem is, the rest of the Democrats made Biden's pledge to not pardon Hunter the foundation of their defense of America, this grand experiment.

REP. JIM MCGOVERN: “One political party remains committed to the rule of law and the other doesn't. It's that simple.”

REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ: “Hunter Biden is not above the law. No one is above the law. Democrats stand for the rule of law.”

REP. ERIC SWALWELL : “We accept the outcome, because that's how the rule of law works.”

JEN PSAKI: “Because the justice system that convicted his only surviving son is the same justice system he's vowed to protect. And if that doesn't tell you who Joe Biden is, I don't really know what does.”

I think I know what does! And now look at the dance Democrats have to do…

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER: “Be honest, the only reason why they went after Hunter the way they did—and I've talked to many federal prosecutors about this—is because he's the president's son.”

MEGHAN HAYS, BIDEN ADMIN: “People have to remember, the president has lost two children already, and he does not need to lose another one to more political witch hunts.”

KAREN FINNEY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: “The crowing from Republicans, but we are talking Donald Trump is a convicted felon who literally pardoned his daughter's father-in-law and just made him ambassador to France.”

REP. JASMINE CROCKETT: “So for anyone that wants to clutch their pearls now because he decided that he was going to pardon his son, I would say, take a look in the mirror.”

Ma'am, we will take a look in that mirror, but we are taking off. So if you could just put this shit on airplane mode and let us get home for the holidays!

Yes, yes to everything that you guys were saying… if you hadn't made Hunter Biden not receiving a pardon the Mason-Dixon line of morality between Democrats and Republicans. There's a big gap between “the law is the only thing that separates us from the animals” and “the monkey threw shit at me first! I had no choice!”

This is what Biden's decision has done. Look how confident and eloquent our Democratic representatives were back when they thought they had the moral high ground on this issue.

REP. JAMIE RASKIN: “I've not heard a single Democrat anywhere in the country cry fraud, cry fixed, cry rigged, cry kangaroo court. You don't hear a single peep out of any Democrat saying that. Why? We believe in the rule of law.”

And now look at what even he, one of the most verbally dexterous attorneys we have on Capitol Hill, has been reduced to…

KASIE HUNT (CNN): “Do you think President Biden should pardon Hunter Biden?”

REP. JAMIE RASKIN: “So, there are lots of claims of political prosecution and political—”

KASIE HUNT (CNN): “Was Hunter politically?”

REP. JAMIE RASKIN: “Well, I mean, obviously, that's a judicial point, and you've got to look at what the evidence is. And I don't know enough—”

KASIE HUNT (CNN): “Should the president pardon him?”

REP. JAMIE RASKIN: “I mean, again, that is a unilateral executive power— power that—”

KASIE HUNT (CNN): “And should he use it?”

REP. JAMIE RASKIN: “Well, the— the power exists for the president to show mercy for people.”

I mean, uh, [MUMBLING] I mean, we have an executive and we have a judicial and then a legislative and then… SMOKE BOMB!

[Isgrimnur]

Like my old grand daddy used to say, "The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect."

[msduncan]

<Checks notes>

As long as the person dodging the rule of law is on your team, it's okay. Bonus points for celebrating

<nods>

It's no wonder so many Americans are so disengaged these days. Both sides' politicians do it. Both sides supporters display the same behavior when it happens.

You're not wrong. Substantively I'm not going to defend it. It's mostly just: (1) on the list of things that I'm freaking out about currently, this ranks low; and (2) semi-related, I am skeptical that this is going to matter in the long-run (except for Hunter Biden, obviously).

I'm not all that worried about it myself. It happens with every administration these days. It doesn't make it something to celebrate however (not saying you are - just some reactions I've seen on other social media).

[Smoove_B]

I'm not all that worried about it myself. It happens with every administration these days.

False equivalency is going to be the kill shot on American democracy, apparently.

[Grifman]

I'm not all that worried about it myself. It happens with every administration these days.

False equivalency is going to be the kill shot on American democracy, apparently.

The problem is, if you have to explain it, if you say people need to understand the “nuance”, you’ve already lost the argument. All the average person knows is the president’s son got a pardon from his daddy, something that would never be on offer for themselves should they ever face a legal situation. That’s all that matters.

[Zarathud]

It’s an escalator ride all the way down.

[Max Peck]

At least it's a golden escalator.

[Jaymann]

If Harris had won the election, I probably would not have supported this pardon. But with the election of a convicted felon, misogynistic rapist, who brags about overturning Roe vs. Wade, my attitude has changed. I now say, hell yeah! And celebrate through the roof.

[Alefroth]

Who is dodging the rule of law and how?

[Alefroth]

If Harris had won the election, I probably would not have supported this pardon. But with the election of a convicted felon, misogynistic rapist, who brags about overturning Roe vs. Wade, my attitude has changed. I now say, hell yeah! And celebrate through the roof.

If Harris had won, I don't think this pardon would have happened.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, I don't think it's a coincidence that Kash Patel was named the (forced) replacement to lead the FBI and all of a sudden Joe Biden reverses his opinion on the pardon for Hunter.

[hepcat]

Laura Loomer is probably pissed that now Quantico is ALSO going to smell like curry.

[GreenGoo]

[$iljanus]

Who is dodging the rule of law and how?

The reason for pardoning can be debated but President Biden is well within his right to exercise his power to issue pardons.

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

Now as for perhaps the son dodging the rule of law I have some thoughts about that. He should have served a penalty within the usual sentencing guidelines for his crimes whether that be a reasonable jail sentence or probation. He should have a felony conviction on his record and if he was going to be sentenced beyond the reasonable norms for the laws he violated his sentence should have been commuted letting the felony conviction stand. However, the incoming administration campaigned on holding investigations of the Bidens for dubious reasons and instead of justice boringly humming along there was going to be a Justice Department who probably would make it a mission to keep pursuing all sorts of things until something new sticks, hence the pardon stretching back a number of years. I think Hunter is really lucky to have had many chances in his life, good legal representation and finally his father being able to do this. I’m not very sympathetic towards the guy but anyone who rails against government overreach should also see the political whirlwind that Hunter has been caught up in and it’s a warning sign for anyone that the power of the state regardless of the party can certainly grind you under their boot for political purposes if not checked. President Biden can’t rein in the Justice Department after Jan 20. All he can do is keep one person from getting ground down under the boot.

[Max Peck]

I wouldn't count on this pardon doing anything to protect him after Jan 20. It wouldn't surprise me to see the DoJ/FBI trump up some new charges against him and railroad him straight into a supermax. It isn't like anyone will stop them, certainly not the Trump Supreme Court.

[LordMortis]

I wouldn't count on this pardon doing anything to protect him after Jan 20. It wouldn't surprise me to see the DoJ/FBI trump up some new charges against him and railroad him straight into a supermax. It isn't like anyone will stop them, certainly not the Trump Supreme Court.

Only if TFG and his Oligarchs know elections are fixed so people will never have to vote again.

[Alefroth]

Who is dodging the rule of law and how?

The reason for pardoning can be debated but President Biden is well within his right to exercise his power to issue pardons.

That's what I was getting at.

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

Now as for perhaps the son dodging the rule of law I have some thoughts about that. He should have served a penalty within the usual sentencing guidelines for his crimes whether that be a reasonable jail sentence or probation. He should have a felony conviction on his record and if he was going to be sentenced beyond the reasonable norms for the laws he violated his sentence should have been commuted letting the felony conviction stand. However, the incoming administration campaigned on holding investigations of the Bidens for dubious reasons and instead of justice boringly humming along there was going to be a Justice Department who probably would make it a mission to keep pursuing all sorts of things until something new sticks, hence the pardon stretching back a number of years. I think Hunter is really lucky to have had many chances in his life, good legal representation and finally his father being able to do this. I’m not very sympathetic towards the guy but anyone who rails against government overreach should also see the political whirlwind that Hunter has been caught up in and it’s a warning sign for anyone that the power of the state regardless of the party can certainly grind you under their boot for political purposes if not checked. President Biden can’t rein in the Justice Department after Jan 20. All he can do is keep one person from getting ground down under the boot.

I've never heard pardonees referred to as dodging the rule of law before. Maybe it depends on whose side they are on.

[Alefroth]

I wouldn't count on this pardon doing anything to protect him after Jan 20. It wouldn't surprise me to see the DoJ/FBI trump up some new charges against him and railroad him straight into a supermax. It isn't like anyone will stop them, certainly not the Trump Supreme Court.

They wouldn't want the optics of jailing a president's son, would they?