Shootings

[Max Peck]

Welp, we've got what I believe is our first copycat C-suite shooting.

Spoiler:

Top Russian Cruise Missile Maker Assassinated in Moscow

A high-level manager from a Russian company that develops missiles used in Moscow's war with Ukraine has been killed, according to reports.

Mikhail Shatsky, deputy general designer of the Mars Design Bureau and head of its software department, was shot dead in the Moscow region, according to the Astra Telegram channel and other Russian and Ukrainian sources.

The firm Shatsky worked for develops and manufactures onboard guidance systems for the Russian military and space industry. Since December 2017, it has been under a department of the state corporation Rosatom.

In reporting his death on Thursday, Ukrainian outlets noted that Shatsky was involved in the modernization of the Kh-59 and Kh-69 missiles, which Russia has repeatedly used to strike at targets in Ukraine.

And that is a good thing or bad?

I'm OK with it.

[Alefroth]

Christ, I forgot what dealing with you is like and got drawn in again, didn’t I? I apologize, everyone. I’m out.

Do you want us to remind you next time?

[Zarathud]

You two either get a room, or get a brace of dueling pistols and be done with it.

Only if we make them both CEOs, apparently.

[hepcat]

Christ, I forgot what dealing with you is like and got drawn in again, didn’t I? I apologize, everyone. I’m out.

Do you want us to remind you next time?

Thanks, that's probably for the best. I just find it frustrating with some folks when they say things like "No one was talking about the health care industry until the shooting!" and when you present evidence they were talking about the health care industry well before this...and frequently, they reply "Well...show me evidence they were talking about it the DAY BEFORE the shooting...and it better be no less than 8 articles!!". You just have to throw up your hands and walk away before the bar gets moved again. Unlike some folks, I don't want to resort to name calling in anger though. So best to just walk away...like Lord Humungus in that documentary Road Warrior.

Plus, I think I'm just getting crankier lately. I blame it on Zarathud for letting his kids pick on me all the time. Christ, he encourages it. The oldest just learned how to give an atomic wedgie and I was on bed rest for 3 days.

[Alefroth]

Three days isn't too bad for an atomic wedgie at your age.

[Zarathud]

It was a sick burn. Child took classes at Second City and called hepcat a coward, calling into question his strength and willpower (among other things).

If you’ve been insulated from high school Mean Girls, the Vicious Mockery is shocking.

[LawBeefaroni]

A Florida woman got arrested for allegedly said: "Delay, deny, depose. You people are next."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... nce-threat

Would she be considered another hero in your view?

So you're against free speech now? Now wonder people like you have problem with "From river to the sea". Apparently simple words can be very scary to you.

Death threats are not protected by the First Amendment. Referencing a murder and then saying "You people are next" is a death threat. Or at least close enough for an arrest. Courts will sort it out.

[Victoria Raverna]

A Florida woman got arrested for allegedly said: "Delay, deny, depose. You people are next."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... nce-threat

Would she be considered another hero in your view?

So you're against free speech now? Now wonder people like you have problem with "From river to the sea". Apparently simple words can be very scary to you.

Death threats are not protected by the First Amendment. Referencing a murder and then saying "You people are next" is a death threat. Or at least close enough for an arrest. Courts will sort it out.

Except it is not certain that it was a death threat. She didn't say anything about they're going to be killed. You people are next can mean a lot of things.

How can that be a death threat but this wasn't:

"Let’s put her with a rifle standing there, with nine barrels shooting at her, OK? Let’s see how she feels about it, you know, when the guns are trained on her face"

[LawBeefaroni]

A Florida woman got arrested for allegedly said: "Delay, deny, depose. You people are next."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... nce-threat

Would she be considered another hero in your view?

So you're against free speech now? Now wonder people like you have problem with "From river to the sea". Apparently simple words can be very scary to you.

Death threats are not protected by the First Amendment. Referencing a murder and then saying "You people are next" is a death threat. Or at least close enough for an arrest. Courts will sort it out.

Except it is not certain that it was a death threat. She didn't say anything about they're going to be killed. You people are next can mean a lot of things.

That's why the courts are going to sort it out.

[LordMortis]

A Florida woman got arrested for allegedly said: "Delay, deny, depose. You people are next."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... nce-threat

Would she be considered another hero in your view?

So you're against free speech now? Now wonder people like you have problem with "From river to the sea". Apparently simple words can be very scary to you.

Death threats are not protected by the First Amendment. Referencing a murder and then saying "You people are next" is a death threat. Or at least close enough for an arrest. Courts will sort it out.

Except it is not certain that it was a death threat. She didn't say anything about they're going to be killed. You people are next can mean a lot of things.

That's why the courts are going to sort it out.

Of course with a TFG court anything is possible when it comes to playing with semantics. Generally speaking, though, using a saying put in pop culture from a bullet casing and stating "you people are next." is at best a call to violence and if directed at anyone/or group specifically is a death threat, whether idle or not.

[Max Peck]

I'd guess that the case would hinge on whether or not it is deemed a credible threat or merely hyperbole. Perhaps the lesson learned here would be to stick to telling the insurance claims denial agent to go fuck themselves rather than referencing the magic scary DDD words (although I'd also guess that the actual magic words here were "You're next").

[hepcat]

Three days isn't too bad for an atomic wedgie at your age.

26?

[Max Peck]

3 reasons behind the unsettling glorification of Luigi Mangione

In the days since Luigi Mangione was charged with killing the top executive at one of the largest health insurers in America, an untold number of people online have declared him a modern-day hero.

A fundraiser for his legal defence raised thousands of dollars before being removed. Online stores are selling T-shirts bearing his face and messages like, "In This House, Luigi Mangione Is A Hero, End of Story." On TikTok, users posted videos with phrases like "free my man" and "my empathy is reserved for people who deserve it."

Mangione, 26, is accused of shooting Brian Thompson, 50, from behind as he walked into a midtown Manhattan hotel to prepare for his company's annual investors' conference on Dec. 4. His lawyer said he plans to plead not guilty.

It usually goes without saying that murder is one of the most reprehensible crimes. And Thompson's killing has certainly sparked plenty of shock and outrage. But experts in online communication, clinical psychology and health-care reform believe there are three key reasons so many other members of the public seem to be celebrating an accused killer instead — and they say some of those factors have been festering in plain sight.

"I think it's straightforward what's happening, almost to the point of being obvious," said George Bonanno, a clinical psychology professor at Columbia University's Teachers College in New York City.

tl;dr:

1. A disdain for health insurers
2. A CEO makes an easy villain
3. Who Mangione is

I'm not sure I'd be running with a prof at a teachers college for the money quote in my article, but then again I'm not a hotshot CBC journo, so what do I know. It's probably a really good teachers college.

[Daehawk]

Fuck murderers. This country is full of shit people. No hero to me.

[Holman]

I'm not sure I'd be running with a prof at a teachers college for the money quote in my article, but then again I'm not a hotshot CBC journo, so what do I know. It's probably a really good teachers college.

Well, it's a pretty prestigious institution. It's currently ranked the #1 graduate school in Education.

[Victoria Raverna]

Michael Moore's response to being mentioned in the manifesto:

https://www.michaelmoore.com/p/a-manife ... fit-health

In Mangione’s manifesto, he said that he was not the “most qualified person to lay out the full argument” against our for-profit healthcare industry. Apparently, to Mangione, one of those qualified people — is me. In his manifesto, he references how I’ve “illuminated the corruption and greed,” implying folks should go to my work to understand the complexity — and the power-hungry abuse — within our current system.

It’s not often that my work gets a killer five-star review from an actual killer. And thus, my phone has been ringing off the hook which is bad news because my phone doesn’t have a hook. Emails are pouring in. Text messages. Requests from many in the media. The messages all sound something like this:

“Luigi mentioned you in his manifesto. That people should listen to you. Will you come on our show, or talk to our reporter and tell them that you condemn murder!?”

Hmmm. Do I condemn murder? That’s an odd question. In Fahrenheit 9/11, I condemned the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi people and the senseless murder of our own American soldiers at the hands of our American government.

In Bowling for Columbine, I condemned the murder of 50,000 Americans every year at the hands of our gun industry and our politicians who do nothing to stop it.

In my 35 years as a filmmaker, have I said or done anything that has implied I condone murder? As a teenager during the Vietnam War, I was required to register for the draft at the local draft board. There was a box on the form asking me if I had a problem with killing Vietnamese people. Actually, it just asked me to check the box if I was going to file for Conscientious Objector status — meaning, if given the opportunity, would I swear that I would never kill a Vietnamese person. I checked the box. Throughout my adult life, I have repeatedly stated that I’m a pacifist. In fact, I have never struck another human in my life. Not even on the playground. I was taller and bigger than the other boys so they mostly left me alone. Usually I was the one who would try to stop the bullies from picking on the smaller kids. When they’d start swinging at me, I would wrap my arms around them, pinning their arms to their sides in my “human straitjacket” and not letting them go until they stopped.

Here’s a sad statistic for you: In the United States, we have a whopping 1.4 million people employed with the job of DENYING HEALTH CARE, vs only 1 million doctors in the entire country! That’s all you need to know about America. We pay more people to deny care than to give it. 1 million doctors to give care, 1.4 million brutes in cubicles doing their best to stop doctors from giving that care. If the purpose of “health care” is to keep people alive, then what is the purpose of DENYING PEOPLE HEALTH CARE? Other than to kill them? I definitely condemn that kind of murder. And in fact, I already did. In 2007, I made a film – SICKO – about America’s bloodthirsty, profit-driven and murderous health insurance system. It was nominated for an Oscar. It’s the second-largest grossing film of my career (after Fahrenheit 9/11). And over the past 15 years, millions upon millions of people have watched it including, apparently, Luigi Mangione.

After the killing of the CEO of United HealthCare, the largest of these billion dollar insurance companies, there was an immediate OUTPOURING of anger toward the health insurance industry. Some people have stepped forward to condemn this anger.

I am not one of them.

The anger is 1000% justified. It is long overdue for the media to cover it. It is not new. It has been boiling. And I’m not going to tamp it down or ask people to shut up. I want to pour gasoline on that anger.

Because this anger is not about the killing of a CEO. If everyone who was angry was ready to kill the CEOs, the CEOs would already be dead. That is not what this reaction is about. It is about the mass death and misery — the physical pain, the mental abuse, the medical debt, the bankruptcies in the face of denied claims and denied care and bottomless deductibles on top of ballooning premiums — that this “health care” industry has levied against the American people for decades. With no one standing in their way! Just a government — two broken parties — enabling this INDUSTRY’s theft and, yes, murder.

And now the press is calling me to ask, “Why are people angry, Mike? Do you condemn murder, Mike?”

Yes, I condemn murder, and that’s why I condemn America’s broken, vile, rapacious, bloodthirsty, unethical, immoral health care industry and I condemn every one of the CEOs who are in charge of it and I condemn every politician who takes their money and keeps this system going instead of tearing it up, ripping it apart, and throwing it all away. We need to replace this system with something sane, something caring and loving — something that keeps people alive.

This is a moment where we can create that change.

But instead, what are we doing? What are our “leaders” doing? What is the Democratic Party doing?

...

After last week’s killing — which was just one more gun death in an unending sea of American gun deaths — our Democratic leaders all chimed in to say, “In America, we don’t solve our problems and our ideological disputes with violence!” and that there’s “no place for political violence” in America.

No place for political violence? America’s entire history is defined by political violence. We slaughtered the Native people who already lived here. We enslaved and slaughtered the African people our Founding Fathers kidnapped and brought here. We — to this day — force Women in our country to give birth against their will. 77 MILLION AMERICANS just voted in November to approve Trump mobilizing the U.S. Military to round up and forcibly remove immigrants, dead or alive, from our country. We spent $8 TRILLION in the last 20 years bombing and slaughtering people in the Middle East. We are spending billions and billions of dollars right now to bomb and kill and starve and exterminate women and children in Gaza… and you, our leaders, are telling us there’s no place for political violence in America?

People across America are not celebrating the brutal murder of a father of two kids from Minnesota. They are screaming for help, they are telling you what’s wrong, they are saying that this system is not just and it is not right and it cannot continue. They want retribution. They want justice. They want health care. And they want to use their money to live — not to throw it away each month into a black hole of health insurance premiums only to discover that when the time finally comes to use their insurance, when the leg breaks or the car crashes or the gun accidentally goes off, their health insurance company is there not to help them but to deny their claim, bankrupt them with deductibles and copays, and give them the runaround until their spirit is broken and they just give up and wait to die.

But the politicians and the pundits and the headlines aren’t telling you that. Just like they aren’t telling you the truth about this crime. They’re so busy telling you not to riot and not to participate in an uprising against their advertisers and campaign funders that they won’t tell you what this really is — a RICH ON RICH crime! Luigi, a young rich man with a couple of Ivy League degrees, scion of a family that owns 2 of the biggest country clubs in Maryland and who is in line to inherit a chain of nursing homes — in other words, scion of a family that’s enriched themselves off a broken healthcare system by bilking retirees and their families in their end-of-days — this young, rich man with an ax to grind against another multi-millionaire, a CEO facing a Justice Department anti-trust investigation, as well as accusations of bilking tax payers in Medicaid/Medicare schemes and of participating in illegal insider trading.

On Monday, the mainstream media was breathlessly reporting about Luigi’s “manifesto.” On Tuesday, though the manifesto was leaked, the mainstream media refused to publish it. By Wednesday, with the whiff of a perfectly choreographed PR move, the mainstream media stopped calling it a “manifesto” — now it was “a letter” or “a confession” or “rantings.” Some of the words were “indecipherable”! It wasn’t a “manifesto,” it was “nonsense”! Clearly the health insurance companies were immediately spending millions of dollars on publicists and lobbyists to convince each of the networks to send out a memo to their anchors and reporters banning the word “manifesto” in the desperate hope that the American public would not be inspired to rise up, not with violence, but with the immense power they already hold in their own hands. Because the numbers don’t lie. There are only 800 billionaires in this country, 6 million millionaires and 160 million of you reading this right now who are living from paycheck to paycheck and literally cannot afford the rent. For God’s sake, don’t call what he wrote a “manifesto” because the one mistake the rich have made is that those 160 million working class people were taught, free of charge, to read.

I don’t know.

When Lyndon Johnson used the manufactured Gulf of Tonkin incident to launch the Vietnam War, his address to the nation was 546 words long. LBJ’s manifesto ended with the pledge that America’s “mission is peace.” That mission ended in the pointless deaths of 58,220 American soldiers and 4 million people in Southeast Asia.

When George W. Bush addressed the nation on the night of his “shock and awe,” his manifesto was 578 words. In it, he promised that “The people [we] liberate will witness the honorable and decent spirit of the American military.” George’s words killed nearly 5,000 American servicemembers and countless thousands of Iraqis.

One hundred and sixty-three years ago, half our country, desperate to keep enslaving people, launched the Civil War, leading to President Abraham Lincoln’s manifesto — the Gettysburg Address… which is just 262 words long.

Luigi Mangione’s manifesto? It’s also 262 words long.

But don’t get me wrong. No one needs to die. In fact, that’s my point. No one needs to die – No one should die because they don’t “have” health insurance. Not one single person should die because their “health insurance” denies their health care in order to make a buck or Thirty Two Billion Bucks.

These insurance corporations and their executives have more blood on their hands than a thousand 9/11 terrorists. And that’s why they are scrubbing their executives’ profiles from their websites and putting up fences around their headquarters. Because they know what they have done. You can’t be the CEO of a company where you knowingly deny care to people — often leading to their deaths — and not have people mad at you, people hate you, people who have no pity for you because you have no pity for them.

But I have a solution. No one has to kill anyone. And it doesn’t cost anything. I have a solution that does not involve any violence. Unless violence to you means us taking money out of your rich effing pockets, unless violence to you means you can’t send your kids to USC or UPenn or buy a third vacation home or a fourth Tesla or a fifth Land Rover or another yacht.

The solution is simple. Throw this entire system in the trash, dismantle this immoral business that profits off the lives of human beings and monetizes our deaths, that murders us or leaves us to die, destroy it all, and instead, in its place, give us all the same health care that every other civilized country on Earth has:

Universal, free, compassionate, and full of life.

Give us Scotland. Give us Uruguay. Give us Taiwan. Give us Canada or give us death! Just go ahead and deny us all now the care that we will someday need. Or give us Canada and let us get busy curling.

And now, what I would like is for everyone reading this to watch my movie, SICKO, and then, when it’s over, join me in condemning this murderous health insurance system. Here it is… YOU can watch it right here, right now, for FREE (and please, please share this with your friends and family):

[Pyperkub]

Wisconsin Christian School Shooting (developing):

The shooting at Abundant Life Christian School in Madison has resulted in several casualties and there are transports to area hospitals which include children, Madison Police Chief Shon Barnes tells CNN.

The chief added that one suspect is down. Authorities are still conducting a secondary searches of buildings and vehicles.

[Isgrimnur]

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program:

Multiple injured in Wisconsin school shooting, police say

Officers are responding to the shooting at the Abundant Life Christian School in the state's capital, Madison.

"Multiple injuries have been reported," the Madison Police Department wrote on social media. "This remains an active and ongoing investigation. More information will be released as it is available."

[hepcat]

Christ....

[disarm]

Christ....

Abundant Life Christian School

Apparently, "Christ" isn't the answer in this case, but I'm sure we'll all be sending our thoughts and prayers again.

[Holman]

The shooter was apparently a student there.

[Isgrimnur]

ABC News

A teacher and teenage student were killed and six students were hurt in a shooting at Abundant Life Christian School in Madison, Wisconsin, on Monday, police said.
...
Of the six injured students, two are in critical condition with life-threatening injuries, Barnes said.

[Victoria Raverna]

The shooter was apparently a student there.

And female.

[Isgrimnur]

Police ID 15-year-old girl as Abundant Life Christian School shooter in Wisconsin, 2nd-grader made 911 call

[Max Peck]

New York is determined to nip this whole shooting CEOs thing in the bud.

Gov. Kathy Hochul To Consider CEO Hotline Amid Safety Concerns

New York Governor Kathy Hochul is reportedly considering a special hotline for CEOs to report safety threats. This comes after the recent murder of UnitedHealthcare divisional CEO Brian Thompson in Manhattan, which sparked widespread concerns among corporate leaders.

The proposal will be discussed during a virtual meeting hosted by Hochul’s administration. Scheduled for this week, the meeting will include 175 corporate representatives, state Homeland Security, counterterrorism officials, and private security teams. Hochul’s goal is to address safety issues and demonstrate the state’s support for business leaders.

Imagine what could be done if the Powers That Be took one child being shot in school as seriously as they are taking one CEO being shot in the street.

[LordMortis]

Just so long as those protections and hotline don't inconvenience anyone in any way or have any opportunity or actual cost to anyone anywhere at any time. That's the bar for COVID mitigation set by, checks notes, corporate representatives related to corporate CEOs. What they need is a return to normalcy or they shouldn't be bothered to return at all.

[disarm]

Can anyone else who is afraid of being shot in the street call that line for help too?

[LawBeefaroni]

Such a hotline already exists: 911. CEOs also have a corporate security team they can call.



This is a dumb idea and an optics nightmare. More pandering to the elite donor class.

[Zarathud]

The hotline is 911.

[Max Peck]

It's just a gentle reminder of who your elected officials actually work for.

[Isgrimnur]

Madison police correct 911 call source: Teacher, not student, made the call

Madison Police Chief Shon Barnes issued a correction regarding the source of the initial 911 call during the fatal shooting at Abundant Life Christian Academy, clarifying that the call came from a second-grade teacher, not a student as previously reported.

[hepcat]

Such a hotline already exists: 911. CEOs also have a corporate security team they can call.



This is a dumb idea and an optics nightmare. More pandering to the elite donor class.

+1

Can anyone else who is afraid of being shot in the street call that line for help too?

If they're white, I'm guessing yes.

[Max Peck]

It's a phone number. Once it's up and running literally anyone can call it, if you know what I mean.

Although you might want to use a burner phone or untraceable VoIP service. If you know what I mean.

[Kraken]

New York is determined to nip this whole shooting CEOs thing in the bud.

Gov. Kathy Hochul To Consider CEO Hotline Amid Safety Concerns

New York Governor Kathy Hochul is reportedly considering a special hotline for CEOs to report safety threats. This comes after the recent murder of UnitedHealthcare divisional CEO Brian Thompson in Manhattan, which sparked widespread concerns among corporate leaders.

The proposal will be discussed during a virtual meeting hosted by Hochul’s administration. Scheduled for this week, the meeting will include 175 corporate representatives, state Homeland Security, counterterrorism officials, and private security teams. Hochul’s goal is to address safety issues and demonstrate the state’s support for business leaders.

Imagine what could be done if the Powers That Be took one child being shot in school as seriously as they are taking one CEO being shot in the street.

When they start killing a CEO every five days or so, we can treat it as unseriously as we regard school shootings. There have been 83 school shootings so far this year, says CNN. They're only newsworthy as local stories, or if someone runs up a new high score, or if there's an unusual twist, like the shooter being a girl.

[Holman]

Police ID 15-year-old girl as Abundant Life Christian School shooter in Wisconsin, 2nd-grader made 911 call

I visited the website for the school. It's actually kind of out there.

The school's mission statement is just four paragraphs long but spends one of those announcing an emphasis on "spiritual gifts," and especially the gifts of prophecy and speaking in tongues.

Evangelical churches can go a number of ways on such "gifts," treating them as literally or as metaphorically as they please. But for a K-12 school to elevate them this way on their website suggests that the more supernatural-charismatic aspects of modern Christian worship are being emphasized here. (Many churches, and even many Evangelical ones, are perfectly happy to ignore this part of St Paul's imagination of Christian experience.)

I am not suggesting anything about the student-shooter's motives here. It's just interesting to me (as a Christian school graduate myself) that a school in a lefty college town like Madison would lean so hard this way.

[Smoove_B]

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that when we find out what motivated the shooting, it's going to evoke a similar feeling to the one circulating after the UnitedHealth CEO was shot. Maybe I'm wrong, but my Spidey-senses are tingling.

[Alefroth]

Are you thinking the victims may have been specifically targeted? I haven't seen the teacher identified in any article, but they are identifying the 15 year old shooter.

[hepcat]

The usual groups are rushing to try and prove the shooter was trans. Christ.

[LordMortis]

Assuming the shoot was trans (and that's a big assume), that's one out of how many in the last 10 years? And then, as with all of these murders, we have to lament about and not change a damned thing for all of the factors, including access to firearms...

[hepcat]

The kids that die don't matter to these people. It's the validation that their world view is correct that means everything to them. They'd crawl over the bodies of a million children if it got them to a place where minorities, the LGBTQ community and anyone who doesn't support the NRA were considered villains.

edit: this was an unnecessarily impassioned post and went a bit too far. but damn it, i'm just tired of the violence and the response from the right whenever it happens.