Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

[GreenGoo]

It's not as linear as it might seem at first, but then it is more linear, and then less linear again :

There are plenty of paths that you can follow once you leave the Asylum, but most of those will just get a new player killed. They do open up possibilities for more veteran players though.

As you point out, the game is old, and feels old if you've played any more modern souls-likes. Still, the first one is the only one I've played of the series. I have played lots of others that are not part of the Souls trilogy though.

As for the Taurus Demon, there are a few options. First, do you have any gold pine resin? You need the skeleton key (I think) to get this at this stage, but if you have it, use it, it's extremely powerful against Taurus.

Second, do you have any black firebombs? Also very powerful at this stage.

Third, did you climb the ladder next to the fog gate you exit just before the Taurus Demon? There are 2 xbowmen up there and they should die before you do anything else. Once up top is clear, trigger the Demon then run back and climb the ladder. Plunging attack that dude for massive damage. Plunging plus gold pine will bring him past 50% with a single attack.

Fourth, find a weapon with bleed (morning star, dagger, thief's dagger, scimitar, etc) and just build up bleed on him, he's very vulnerable. You should see large chunks of his health disappear after a few swings. Added bonus, daggers and scimitars are very fast, helping you get in and out with less risk.

You can actually keep your distance pretty easily in this fight, so spam any magic you might have, bombs, knives, whatever. You can wait for it to over commit and then run/roll past it and climb back up the ladder if you are fast, then plunging attack it again.

Or you can plink him to death. Wait for him to over extend, run in and whack him, then run/roll out again. Over and over. Of course this could take awhile and the longer you fight, the more likely it is that you'll make a mistake.

[Scraper]

I think I've beaten this game on 4 different platforms. If the graphics are a huge concern then you could look into the Remastered version on Xbone or PS4. In my eyes the game is a classic and still highly playable and definitely worth playing through at least once.

[hitbyambulance]

If the graphics are a huge concern then you could look into the Remastered version

you're talking to someone who not only owns a large collection of old game consoles, but also regularly plays them... and is learning assembly coding for the Atari 2600. graphics are never a concern; i just think, aesthetically and for other reasons, 3D polygon-based graphics age nearly exponentially worse than 2D 'pixel'.

(already own the remastered version on Steam)

As for the Taurus Demon, there are a few options. First, do you have any gold pine resin? You need the skeleton key (I think) to get this at this stage, but if you have it, use it, it's extremely powerful against Taurus.

Second, do you have any black firebombs? Also very powerful at this stage.

Fourth, find a weapon with bleed (morning star, dagger, thief's dagger, scimitar, etc) and just build up bleed on him, he's very vulnerable.

i think part of my issue with this game is i don't have any interest in the RPG-ish mechanics and have done exactly zero research into consumables and weapon effects.... i just like the timing, blocking, parrying, rolling, striking and forms of combat. i still haven't figured out how to load an item into the top 'quick-use' slot.

[GreenGoo]

Well, I don't use consumables either, so I'm right there with you, but I do know that golden pine resin (I think it's called) can make the Taurus demon an order of magnitude easier. I also don't chuck knives or bombs, because I prefer the parry/dodging of regular combat too. But combat and specifically parry timing is probably the hardest part of the game, so I wasn't about to tell you to "git gud" even though that's probably the best advice for Souls-likes in general.

I'm trying to "git gud" at Sifu right now. It's challenging for me, even though I see people regularly bending the game to their will.

[GreenGoo]

As mentioned in the random thread, I finally beat the game, after 10's of alts leveling into the 70's and even 80's.

I've now beaten it with a strength character, a dexterity character, a sorcery character and a miracles character. I guess I'll finish it with a pyromancy character just to round out the archtypes.

I have all 3 of the spell collection achievements. Some were much easier than others. The miracles one requires NG+, whereas the pyromancy one can be done about 1/2 into NG, if you have the cash.

It's been fun. I may play one more character from scratch, min-maxing the hell out of it to make everything as easy as possible so I can just run through and feel like a god. Or not. I've played it a lot, and it's probably time to move onto something newish.

[Jaymann]

What's crazy is Elden Ring is one of my all time favorites but I will never play any Dark Souls games. Boss battles were my least favorite part, but I loved the exploration.

[GreenGoo]

That is interesting actually. I have Elden Ring on the PS5, but haven't played more than the first couple of areas. I'll get to it. Eventually.

[Blackhawk]

After 15 years of looking at it out of the corner of my eye with a mixture of envy, awe, and fear, I finally sat down to give this a try. Part of the motivation was just that the mechanics are showing up in so many games, from Vermintide to Space Marine 2, to Monster Hunter, to the The Witcher, that not really 'getting' the mechanics has been holding me back from enjoying (or being good at) a lot of games. I also have a low frustration tolerance and I hoped this would help me with that. So, I decided it was time. My youngest (21) was around to help me, and he's gotten 100% of the achievements in every game in the series - he knows every door, enemy, and item by heart.

I finally finished last night, both the base game and the DLC. It took me 11 days with a halberd/straight sword build. I had a ton of fun. It was difficult and frustrating, but not at all in the way I expected. The challenge wasn't in overcoming the bosses, it was in truly learning an understanding the mechanics. Understanding iframes (the part of an animation where you can't be hurt) and how to dodge so that you're in the 'danger zone' of the enemy's attack during that part of the animation. How to time a parry, and when to use a block vs when to parry vs when to dodge and in what direction. Using attacks and movement to create openings, and then using the right attack to take advantage of those openings. Choosing when to risk attacks, when to defend, and when to heal (it turns out that being greedy when it comes to attacking is a losing proposition.) Controlling the crowd when you're fighting multiples.

Actually fighting became a ton of fun once it started to flow, and the bosses were more about knowing you're going to die a few times and not trying to win (after the first attempt, at least - I beat quite a few on the first attempt), but rather just watching what they do and figuring out what the counter is. It's less that you're failing repeatedly, and more that you're successfully figuring out the fight a few times and then actually succeeding.

The things that actually bothered me were just the gimmicks - slowed movement areas, 'gotcha' death traps (thankfully only really in one DLC boss with collapsing floors), and the Giant's Tomb - try playing in pitch blackness with a Doom 3 flashlight (if you can see, you can't fight, and if you fight, you can't see (fun gimmick - for about 15 minutes. After an hour and a half of trying to block/dodge enemies that I couldn't see became a bit much.) A couple of the run-backs were unnecessarily tedious.

But on the whole, it was a great experience. On to DS2.

[Scraper]

Congrats Blackhawk. Having recently replayed both DS1 and 2 I can say that I enjoyed DS2 more than 1. They kind of blend together at times, but they are certainly different enough that DS2 will feel fresh, plus they have an actual fast travel system in part 2. Graphically 2 is much better looking as well.

Probably the most frustrating thing to figure out in 2 is that the torch lighting mechanic is totally wonky. It requires you to have a torch, light it with something else that is already lit and then there's a timer on the torches, so they can burn out if you take too much time. It's not game breaking, it's just odd.

[GreenGoo]

tually fighting became a ton of fun once it started to flow, and the bosses were more about knowing you're going to die a few times and not trying to win (after the first attempt, at least - I beat quite a few on the first attempt), but rather just watching what they do and figuring out what the counter is. It's less that you're failing repeatedly, and more that you're successfully figuring out the fight a few times and then actually succeeding.

This is probably the single most important change in mindset that allowed me to go from being insanely frustrated in Nioh to grudgingly accepting that I'm going to die to having a blast learning a boss and bullying it after learning its moveset.

I'm currently playing Black Myth: Wukong and it is a ton of FUN because you are so freakin' fast and there is no blocking. It helps that you are rewarded for "perfect dodges". The game is also much, much easier than most soulslikes I've played in the past, which means you spend less time running back to the boss and more time progressing. It's just about perfect in terms of fast and fun combat, and maybe just a smidge too easy for me personally. It's not easy, just easier. There are more than a few bosses that you can just reflex your way through them, no need to learn their movesets first.

Back to the subject, I doubt I will play Souls II or III. The first one was historic and has a huge fanbase and a zillion videos and challenge runs etc etc. But it's old, and feels old. I played the first to experience and conquer the milestone that it is in the gaming world. I don't feel the same way about the next two.

Bloodborne however, is likely to be on my list at some future date.

[Blackhawk]

I actually did summon help (from my son) on two bosses. I had one hell of a time again Smush and Ornstein, and the aforementioned Bed of Chaos, which was just bullshitte.

I actually enjoyed Blight Town, but despised Giant's Tomb. The only time I found myself turning red and trying not to smash things, though, was the early run in Anor Londo with bleeping bleep of a bleep archers at the top of the buttress.

[Scraper]

I actually did summon help (from my son) on two bosses. I had one hell of a time again Smush and Ornstein, and the aforementioned Bed of Chaos, which was just bullshitte.

I actually enjoyed Blight Town, but despised Giant's Tomb. The only time I found myself turning red and trying not to smash things, though, was the early run in Anor Londo with bleeping bleep of a bleep archers at the top of the buttress.

Yeah that Anor Londo section with the archers really does suck.

[GreenGoo]

I actually did summon help (from my son) on two bosses. I had one hell of a time again Smush and Ornstein, and the aforementioned Bed of Chaos, which was just bullshitte.

I actually enjoyed Blight Town, but despised Giant's Tomb. The only time I found myself turning red and trying not to smash things, though, was the early run in Anor Londo with bleeping bleep of a bleep archers at the top of the buttress.

Smough and Ornstein is a rite of passage for sure, and Bed of Chaos is definitely bull. There are a couple of things you can do to cheese Bed of Chaos, and I do them every time now. Even with them, it took me awhile before I could one shot it consistently. I watch youtubers fight Bed of Chaos and literally LOL at the profanity. It's that bad.

Giant's Tomb is a total pain if you don't have the maggot sunlight helm thingy. So I always get the maggot sunlight helm thingy before doing Giants. Always.

[GreenGoo]

Yeah that Anor Londo section with the archers really does suck.

More profanity. I typically poison arrow them and wait. However, if I'm playing something that doesn't allow me to use a bow (self imposed rules/builds/challenges) then it still takes me a few tries to get by the archers. They suck. Well, the map + archers suck.

[Blackhawk]

Smough and Ornstein is a rite of passage for sure, and Bed of Chaos is definitely bull. There are a couple of things you can do to cheese Bed of Chaos, and I do them every time now.

Left, save-quit, right save-quit?

[GreenGoo]

Left, save-quit, right save-quit?

Yes, but also arrows for the left side so you are never in danger. Then it's a matter of baiting the double arm swipe so you can run straight off the edge landing on the tree branch.

Hilariously, even with all that cheese, you can still die standing beside the bug because fire can still reach you there. It's a complete s**t show and even the designer has expressed regret.

It doesn't help that the run back is long and potentially dangerous, depending on which bonfire you use.

edit: I go right first. Does it make a difference? Probably not.

[Blackhawk]

It doesn't help that the run back is long and potentially dangerous, depending on which bonfire you use.

Or if you forget that you swapped rings for the fight.

[GreenGoo]

It doesn't help that the run back is long and potentially dangerous, depending on which bonfire you use.

Or if you forget that you swapped rings for the fight.

True, but I don't use that bonfire

Personally I would use the Daughter of Chaos and run alllll the way back, bypassing the titanite demon (or fight him every time, if you need demon titanite. Not like you need estus for Bed. You win or you die. That's basically it. Yes, over-simplification).

[Blackhawk]

Not like you need estus for Bed. You win or you die. That's basically it.

The Game of Groans?

[GreenGoo]

Not like you need estus for Bed. You win or you die. That's basically it.

The Game of Groans?

Hah. No I did not do that intentionally.

[GreenGoo]

Just ran through the Bed of Chaos and Duke's Archives/Crystal Caves.

Bed almost took my head off when I was a little slow to run onto the branch, but the arm passed just over my head. As you are probably aware, getting hit there means instant falling death, so it was close.

There is a Blue Slab in the Crystal Caves that is along the invisible walkways. This was the first time I've ever gotten it without dying, but it reminded me that I absolutely hate that part of the zone.

[Blackhawk]

I got that slab. Luckily, my son told me about the prism stone trick. On the other hand, I died repeatedly to sliding off of the crystals and being batted off by that bastage gold crystal giant... thingy.

[GreenGoo]

I got that slab. Luckily, my son told me about the prism stone trick. On the other hand, I died repeatedly to sliding off of the crystals and being batted off by that bastage gold crystal giant... thingy.

Even with prism stones I tend to fall off. I guess I'm impatient and use too few. It doesn't help that the stone can sit on the edge and you lose track of where the path is.

I've used arrows shot beside each other to make a "channel" looking path (i.e. each arrow is close to the left or right edge, leaving the middle "safe". Lol), but when I died to even that, I just gave up and load up a map on the second monitor. That plus the snowflakes has mostly worked the best for me.

The Great Hollow is also a pain (assuming you want all the shinies), but that Blue Slab in the Crystal Caves is the absolute worst.

[Blackhawk]

The Hollow was kind of a pain, but the first time I made it down and got stuck in the geometry made me want to chew souls.

[GreenGoo]

The Hollow was kind of a pain, but the first time I made it down and got stuck in the geometry made me want to chew souls.

The game is janky as eff. When I'm playing Black Myth all my wife hears is "cool" or "darn". When I'm playing Dark Souls she hears "wtf?!" or "I f**king hate this game" even after hundreds of hours.

Just complete jank, all the way down. I'm sometimes amazed the game ever made it to release, let alone a fan favourite.

[GreenGoo]

Personally I would use the Daughter of Chaos and run alllll the way back, bypassing the titanite demon (or fight him every time, if you need demon titanite.

This is assuming you've unlocked the elevator shortcut back to the Daughter of Chaos area. I don't think it's locked behind anything, so you are likely to have found it no problem. It's still a long run.

[Blackhawk]

Yeah, I had that unlocked right away. I just found the run from the little lava hut to be much less of a hassle.

That whole area reeked of rushed. I understand that it was the victim of them pushing deadlines, and led to simple fights, simple areas, and reused assets (like the army of dragon asses.)

[GreenGoo]

That's my understanding as well. All the undead dragon butts is a telltale sign, apparently.

[GreenGoo]

For the record I used FightinCowboy's 100% walkthrough for my first few playthroughs and I continue to reference it on occasion. He misses a few very minor soul items but for the most part, it's everything you can pick up in the game.



He's not the most knowledgeable when it comes to Dark Souls, but he has all the basics down (lore and mechanics) and is great if you want a step by step guide to follow.

I mostly use it when I can't decide where to go next and there are several options available to me.

[GreenGoo]

Alright, I finished Dark Souls for the last time today.

Played full on Strength (50) build, using the highest damaging weapon in the game. Demon's Greataxe when upgraded has an AR of 285 with a scaling factor of "S" in strength. I think my AR displayed was 686 one handed. The thing weighs 22 though, so it was almost impossible to get fast rolling without going naked, especially since equipping a shield will bring that up to 25. Even with 25 endurance (not that high by end of NG, admittedly) and Havel's ring, your stuck around 25 out of 100ish weight, without armour.

Some bosses are just way easier with fast rolling. Artorias and Kalameet can both be "no hit" fairly easily with fast rolling, despite being rated as fairly difficult bosses.

[GreenGoo]

Uninstalled. Surge 2 in my backlog is looking pretty tempting, however.