LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

[Isgrimnur]

#RepealThe10th

[baelthazar]

We are going to see more of this. I know Indiana is also considering it:

Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine signed HB 8 (“The Parents’ Bill of Rights”) into law on Wednesday. He did so behind closed doors, not televised as he did for another bill he signed into law the same day.

HB 8 will force teachers and school staff to out LGBTQ+ youth to their parents and will limit the mention of LGBTQ+ identity in school curricula.

The bill requires that teachers and school staff – including school social workers, counselors and psychologists – notify a student’s parent of “any change in the student’s services, including counseling services, or monitoring related to the student’s mental, emotional or physical health or well-being.”

The legislation specifically calls out trans identity as necessitating parental notification, and previous testimony has affirmed that disclosures of sexual orientation would also trigger parental contact.

The bill further bans any mention of “sexuality content” in grades K-3 and mandates that such content be “age-appropriate” for all other grades. Sexuality content is defined in the bill as “written instruction, presentation, image or description of sexual concepts or gender ideology.” Nowhere in the bill is “gender ideology” defined.

“I think the basis for it for me, if you’re a parent, you want to be informed what’s going on in your child’s life,” DeWine told reporters in a press conference on Wednesday. “Parents are the best teachers.”

“It’s about creating the right kind of culture educationally in Ohio,” added Lt. Gov. Jon Husted added.

His answer about parents does not sync with actual reality. There are NUMEROUS cases where parents were the LEAST SAFE people to entrust their kids health to (particularly in terms of sexuality).

DeWine was specifically asked by reporters about the part of HB 8 that would result in LGBTQ+ students being outed.

“We love these students as we love anybody else. They’re not only welcome in Ohio, but they’re welcome in our schools. We want to protect them as we protect every other student. But I do believe parents are the most likely people to help that child,” DeWine said.

The bill passed by the Ohio legislature during the last hour of their legislative session on December 19 also included language mandating that all schools find a time during the school day when students are able to leave school for religious instruction.

DeWine had previously indicated he would sign the bill into law, specifically endorsing the language on release time for religious instruction.

I also suspect that there needs to be documentation of this communication to parents. So not only are you outing these kids to their parents, you are outing them to the State as well. We are one step away from the State requiring, I don't know, special symbols the kids wear to ensure they are properly identified.

[Punisher]

Of parents are the best teachers then why don't they push for home schooling?

[Blackhawk]

We are going to see more of this. I know Indiana is also considering it:

That's us. We're not trailblazers - we wait for other states to do despicable first, let them take the media brunt, then quietly add our names to the bottom of the list after it's died down.

[Blackhawk]

“It’s about creating the right kind of culture educationally in Ohio,” added Lt. Gov. Jon Husted added.

That's what we get for embedding the right for government to create culture in the Constitution.

[Unagi]

Talking to myself here...

The funny tricky thing about culture (IMO) is that if it's being forced, it's not culture. Culture is what is, not what you (or anyone) wants it to be.

[hepcat]

This will result in a lot of kids being thrown out into the streets. Fuck Ohio. And fuck the people who support this shit. They're awful goddamn human beings. Sorry, but this one makes my blood boil. Growing up with a gay brother in Ohio, I (well, he) was fortunate to have parents that didn't care. But he had a LOT of friends who's parents did...and they often times just kicked them out. They would then end up in situations that no child should ever be placed in.

So yeah. Fuck you people who support this. I honestly wish nothing but harm to you.

[Zarathud]

The people who want schools to report on their children are the same people hostile to paying for schools and who disregard school shootings.

What happened to schools being just a place to learn skills and knowledge? If you’re a parent who needs a teacher to tell you about your child’s gender identity, you’ve failed in paying attention.

[gbasden]

The people who want schools to report on their children are the same people hostile to paying for schools and who disregard school shootings.

What happened to schools being just a place to learn skills and knowledge? If you’re a parent who needs a teacher to tell you about your child’s gender identity, you’ve failed in paying attention.

FTFY.

[Smoove_B]

In case you were wondering, the House GOP is leading the charge, 13 days into the new year:

The House voted on Tuesday to pass a GOP-led bill that would ban transgender athletes from women’s and girls’ sports at federally funded schools and educational institutions.

The legislation is expected to next be taken up by the GOP-controlled Senate. The House vote was 218 to 206 with two Democrats voting in favor and one Democrat voting “present.” Reps. Vicente Gonzalez and Henry Cuellar of Texas were the two Democrats who voted for the bill and Rep. Don Davis of North Carolina was the present vote.

Details:

The bill would prohibit transgender women and girls from playing on sports teams consistent with their gender identity. It seeks to amend federal law to require that “sex shall be recognized based solely on a person’s reproductive biology and genetics at birth,” for the purpose of determining compliance with Title IX in athletics, according to the legislative text.

Title IX prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex in education programs or activities that receive funding from the federal government, and applies to schools and other educational institutions.

The bill would not “prohibit schools or institutions from permitting males to practice against women’s sports teams,” according to a fact sheet from the House committee on Education and the Workforce.

According to the legislative text, the bill does not prohibit institutions “from permitting males to train or practice with an athletic program or activity that is designated for women or girls so long as no female is deprived of a roster spot on a team or sport, opportunity to participate in a practice or competition, scholarship, admission to an educational institution, or any other benefit that accompanies participating in the athletic program or activity.”

However, the fact sheet from the Education committee states that under the bill, “a recipient of federal education funding violates Title IX’s prohibition against sex discrimination if the recipient operates, sponsors, or facilitates athletic programs or activities and allows a person whose sex is male to participate in an athletic program or activity that is designated for women or girls.”

The bill – called the “Protection of Women and Girls in Sports Act” – was introduced by Republican Rep. Greg Steube of Florida.

Note:

It’s not clear if the bill will be able to pass the Senate and likely faces an uphill battle in the chamber due to the tight margin of partisan control.

Senate Republicans have 53 seats. Typically, that would mean that at least seven Democrats would need to vote with Republicans to hit the 60-vote threshold to advance a bill subject to a filibuster.

[Punisher]

Ok. Not sure how this will come out or if I'm just missing something.
But why is this bad?
Isn't the whole reason that that are men's and women's divisions because there are biological differences but the sexes and that biological and genetically males have an advantage over females in some sports?

[Alefroth]

Disregarding any other arguments for or against, it's a solution for an exceedingly rare problem.

https://www.newsweek.com/how-many-trans ... ts-1796006

"While we don't know the exact number of trans women competing in NCAA sports, I would be very surprised if there were more than 100 of them in the women's category," Harper told Newsweek.

One hundred transgender athletes would comprise an incredibly small number of the U.S. population, and the number dwindles even further when it comes to middle school and high school athletes.

Gillian Branstetter, a spokesperson for the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) said the number of transgender athletes isn't comprehensive, but she's also certain it's a very small portion of the nation's population. Branstetter told Newsweek that Save Women's Sports, an organization advocating for banning transgender athletes from competing in girls' sports, identified only five transgender athletes competing on girls' teams in school sports for grades K through 12.

[Isgrimnur]

Opportunity cost. If our underpaid and overworked (/s) federal legislators are working on targeting literally dozens of people, what other critical issues are being ignored?

[Holman]

It's also a practice run for stripping rights away in other areas.

Using the law to essentialize gender here sets the stage for ending gay marriage, among other things.

[Punisher]

It's also a practice run for stripping rights away in other areas.

Using the law to essentialize gender here sets the stage for ending gay marriage, among other things.

I'm hoping it doesn't come to that. For gay rights I feel that if it doesn't hurt anyone, who cares.
For the sports things, I guess I feel like it shouldn't have to have been a law but it shouldn't have been allowed to start. At least for any sport where sex/biology gives someone an unfair advantage.
For kids sports that aren't really competitive with like tournaments, again, who cares as long as it doesn't become a safety issue.

[Smoove_B]

I'm unclear how they're going to establish "gender identify at birth" since clearly self-identification isn't enough. I suppose submission of a birth certificate (certified copy) might be possible, but in some states you can have an amended (and true) copy re-issued.

Does this mean then that the group organizing the sport can then require all applicants to submit to a genital examination by a certified medical professional to determine if the identified gender matches their evaluation? Is this the world we're going to be living in?

For kids sports that aren't really competitive with like tournaments, again, who cares as long as it doesn't become a safety issue.

As someone that is residing in the same state, clearly you're not following what parents are saying (at least out in Hill Country). There are lots that are loudly proclaiming on social media that K-12 sports are being ruined by trans kids. There are lots of people genuinely upset by the idea that "transgenders" are taking over sports and they fully support this type of legislative nonsense. And with it being an election year for our governor, this is likely going to be an issue that motivates voters, because we now live in Hell. They are also really pushing parental rights out by me and I fear it's going to be the rallying cry that flips our state Red sooner than later.

[Punisher]

I forget we're in the same state...

Yeah, I can't speak for other people.
I can only speak for myself.
I would say it depends on how it's being ruined.
Again, if it's a LEGIT safety issue then I can understand.
If it's "reward" based. I can't think of the correct word. Basically competitive competition with other schools not lunch or gym class stuff, then I can understand it.
If it's just fun stuff, like kickball or something then it doesn't matter.

Can you have a birth certificate changed with the sex though? I didn't think that was possible.
That would have been my answer. Birth certificate.

[Blackhawk]

This is an easy target. Lots of people support it because the issue is so complex, so even casual gay rights supporters don't fully understand it and aren't too bothered by the law.

And that's what they want - an easy beachhead. Something to get their foot into the door to allow them the room to start expanding it to cover other rights.

[GreenGoo]

This is an easy target. Lots of people support it because the issue is so complex, so even casual gay rights supporters don't fully understand it and aren't too bothered by the law.

And that's what they want - an easy beachhead. Something to get their foot into the door to allow them the room to start expanding it to cover other rights.

+1.

[Smoove_B]

Can you have a birth certificate changed with the sex though? I didn't think that was possible.
That would have been my answer. Birth certificate.

Absolutely. And that probably was the answer for a long time until deplorables figured out the court systems allowed people to change their birth certificates.

I would say it depends on how it's being ruined.

It's always about the "sanctity" of the sport and how it's unfair. Following through, it ultimately impacts the ability to earn scholarships and (I guess) become famous.

I find the safety arguments highly dubious.

[Isgrimnur]

This is an easy target. Lots of people support it because the issue is so complex, so even casual gay rights supporters don't fully understand it and aren't too bothered by the law.

And that's what they want - an easy beachhead. Something to get their foot into the door to allow them the room to start expanding it to cover other rights.

[gbasden]

It's always about the "sanctity" of the sport and how it's unfair. Following through, it ultimately impacts the ability to earn scholarships and (I guess) become famous.

Wait until the next step where they start disqualifying female athletes that naturally create too much testosterone because that's "unfair" too and they are just boys in girl's bodies.

As a nerd, the concept that the genetics of the body that you are born with is going to influence your success is rather self evident.

[Punisher]

It's always about the "sanctity" of the sport and how it's unfair. Following through, it ultimately impacts the ability to earn scholarships and (I guess) become famous.

Wait until the next step where they start disqualifying female athletes that naturally create too much testosterone because that's "unfair" too and they are just boys in girl's bodies.

As a nerd, the concept that the genetics of the body that you are born with is going to influence your success is rather self evident.

I'll be honest, that sounds a bit far fetched to me.
There's a big difference between a male and a female with extra testosterone.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, I'm sure the next thing will be to eliminate biology from High School curriculum as they might end up teaching kids that there are people that aren't just XX or XY. Aneuploidy will be on the forbidden word list!

[Punisher]

Now you're just making up words, like Googolplex.

[hepcat]

What I still don’t understand is why trans politicians like Marjorie Taylor Greene are supporting laws that hurt their own people.

[gbasden]

It's always about the "sanctity" of the sport and how it's unfair. Following through, it ultimately impacts the ability to earn scholarships and (I guess) become famous.

Wait until the next step where they start disqualifying female athletes that naturally create too much testosterone because that's "unfair" too and they are just boys in girl's bodies.

As a nerd, the concept that the genetics of the body that you are born with is going to influence your success is rather self evident.

I'll be honest, that sounds a bit far fetched to me.
There's a big difference between a male and a female with extra testosterone.

O RLY?

The policy mentioned a three step process, the first a physical examination 'including clinical signs of virilization (physical appearance, deepness of voice, body hair etc), genital characteristics (clitoral hypertrophy)', the second a hormone test, principally the androgenic sex steroids, but also possibly other hormones, and the final stage a full genetic test.

An athlete would be eligible to compete if her testosterone level was below 10 nmol/L, or if she could prove that 'she has an androgen resistance such that she derives no competitive advantage'.