Freeware RPGs - Old School Hack and Slash

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:48 am

I've been desperate to find an old school hack-and-slash keyboard-based RPG in the veins of Telengard and Bard's Tale. Lucky me, I found this Dungeons Deep - Freeware Fantasy Dungeon Game Classics site.

A few hours on Telengard, and I'm in heaven. Back to the hardcore days when your character didn't survive the game unless the character is saved back at the pub. Forget cries of consolitis and "not enough save-points," you wimps. Get whacked by a level 6 demon just a few steps away from the entry to the dungeon, too bad for you. Luckily, exiting the game to back up in Windows is MUCH easier than hacking the 5-inch floppy.

Also present is the classic Adventure. THE DUCK RETURNS!

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:05 am

Zarathud wrote:I've been desperate to find an old school hack-and-slash keyboard-based RPG in the veins of Telengard and Bard's Tale. Lucky me, I found this Dungeons Deep - Freeware Fantasy Dungeon Game Classics site.

See also Rich Zdim Carlson's "Beyond Adventure" interactive fiction archive. (While you're over there, buy Strange Adventures in Infinite Space!)

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:32 am

Zarathud wrote:I've been desperate to find an old school hack-and-slash keyboard-based RPG in the veins of Telengard and Bard's Tale. Lucky me, I found this Dungeons Deep - Freeware Fantasy Dungeon Game Classics site.

Specifically a rogue-like or a 1st person dungeon crawl? Or do you want to branch out some?

Grundbegriff wrote:(While you're over there, buy Strange Adventures in Infinite Space!)

Looking foward to the sequel?

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:50 am

I tend to get quickly addicted to an old-school game, play it fanatically for a few days, then quit and never go back (well, not never but usually not for many years). And the old-school ones tend to be really really hard - you can be running a level 10 character around a level 1 dungeon and something will come along and kill you. I get sick of that pretty quickly, so it's almost unheard of for me to play one through to the end. I'm much less likely to just pick up a game like Diablo and play it for a few days (mostly because installing modern bloatware takes so long), but when I do play it I play it to the end. Both have their place.

Sith

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:56 am

Telengard is awesome. Nothing like being 47 floors down, with a level 122 Vampire chasing after you, 1.3 million gold in the snarf bag, and desperately seeking a Grey Misty Cube to (hopefully) 'port you back home.

I like old & new school CRPGs, though there's something to be said for the classic turn-based roguelike. I would love to see someone do a really slick modern roguelike, turn-based but with all the bells & whistles, geared to 1-hour play sessions.

martindemon · Post by **martindemon** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:50 pm

I can't say which one I prefer because I played more Bardstale 1, 2 and 3 than I played Diablo like games, and I played Diablo games for more than 500 hours... Perhaps even more. I remember mapping more than 80 levels in Bardstale 2 and the timed puzzles which killed everyone if you did not figure it out soon enough

That was hard, being attacked by a party of 122 dangerous monsters, but I always had my frost horn and 2 or 3 archmages

REST was awesome, if I could survive the fight. My characters were godlike at the end of the second Bardstale, only to be slaugtered at the beginning of Bardstale 3 by fighting Brilhasty ap Tarj (sp?) This green guy wou had locked himself into his private dongeon under the city he just destroyed... Or something like that. Killing Tarjan at the end was really something. It gave a finality in the serie we seldom see in the recent games. WHY DON'T THEY LET US KILL THE EVIL GUY?! AAAAARGH!

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:23 am

3. None of the above.

Games like Diablo or Dungeon Siege are action games, not RPGs. There isn't the least bit of "role playing" involved.

"Hack 'n slash" is a term for those RPGs not creative enough to include a story line. The better the story, the less reliance on contrived combat. I prefer such games over either of your two choices.

KiloOhm · Post by **KiloOhm** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:12 am

Jeff V wrote:3. None of the above.

Games like Diablo or Dungeon Siege are action games, not RPGs. There isn't the least bit of "role playing" involved.

"Hack 'n slash" is a term for those RPGs not creative enough to include a story line. The better the story, the less reliance on contrived combat. I prefer such games over either of your two choices.

What is so very differen't about Diablo than a "hack and slash" RPG? If the latter does not have a story to speak of, then they are very similar IMHO. Both have persistant characters that you mold to your taste which is half of what makes a pure RPG (The other half would be story).

Kanati · Post by **Kanati** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:25 pm

I would love to see someone do a really slick modern roguelike, turn-based but with all the bells & whistles, geared to 1-hour play sessions.

I'm currently giving a moria-remake-update serious consideration...

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:45 pm

Jeff V wrote:3. None of the above.

Games like Diablo or Dungeon Siege are action games, not RPGs. There isn't the least bit of "role playing" involved.

"Hack 'n slash" is a term for those RPGs not creative enough to include a story line. The better the story, the less reliance on contrived combat. I prefer such games over either of your two choices.

I don't know what constitutes "contrived" combat, but I do know that IMO many of the best CRPGs ever made -- including BG2, the middle Ultimas, Gothic 2, Avernum 2, Fallout -- feature lots of combat.

I've never considered "role playing" to be the main feature of a CRPG. It's a vague term in any case, and I think it's an artifact of naming history (respecting the genre's descent from PnP role playing games) as much as anything else. CRPGs, as they have actually evolved, are generally a mercurial mixture of combat, loot/level-hook, exploration, story, and dialogue tree navigation. The best CRPGs in my experience strike the right balance among these elements. But combat is usually close to the center. With a few exceptions -- PS Torment being one (which is probably why some people love it, but I didn't find that it "made up" for the gameplay vacuum sufficiently in other areas). Even PS Torment has plenty of combat though.

Personally I put "story" maybe 3rd or 4th on the list of what's important in a CRPG. The best CRPGs do have stories but they are not overwhelmed by them. It provides context to the gameplay but IMO it is not the gameplay.

"Role playing" is harder to implement than a linear narrative and without a flesh and blood GM seems to be tough to get into a computer game. I haven't seen it done really well in a CRPG, but then I'm not sure what I'd be looking at. If it just means lots and lots of dialogue tree navigation, I think I'd rather have my combat and exploration and loot/level grinds, to be honest. If it means something else, well I look forward to what else the genre can come up with in the future.

Whether Diablo/Dungeon siege are bad CRPGs or simply members of a different genre, is a matter of definition I suppose. I would call Dungeon Siege more of an RTS than anything else, but I think Diablo does fall into the CRPG category by "grandfather clause" if nothing else -- because it is clearly an updated roguelike, and roguelikes are one of the main progenitors of the CRPG. That said, I didn't like Diablo much.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:15 pm

If you walk into one room and there is a bunch of orcs to kill, then walk into the next and find giant rats to kill; then you are in the contrived combat realm. I want to see character development in something other than hit points and weapons skills. Most of them are excessive in combat at best, but some are better than others when it comes to character development (like Morrowind).

Back when I used to run a P&P RPG (I think Runequest at the time), the players were shocked at the end of an 8-hour marathon session when they discovered nobody had increased their combat skill that day - they didn't fight anything at all. They also said it was the single-best session they ever played.

Gwar21 · Post by **Gwar21** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:53 pm

I prefer newer games (well, Diablo, not Dungeon Siege), but I still like Angband and its variants.

philosophist · Post by **philosophist** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:55 pm

bluefugue wrote: I've never considered "role playing" to be the main feature of a CRPG. It's a vague term in any case, and I think it's an artifact of naming history (respecting the genre's descent from PnP role playing games) as much as anything else. CRPGs, as they have actually evolved, are generally a mercurial mixture of combat, loot/level-hook, exploration, story, and dialogue tree navigation. The best CRPGs in my experience strike the right balance among these elements. But combat is usually close to the center. With a few exceptions -- PS Torment being one (which is probably why some people love it, but I didn't find that it "made up" for the gameplay vacuum sufficiently in other areas). Even PS Torment has plenty of combat though.

Indeed.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:30 am

Most of them are excessive in combat at best, but some are better than others when it comes to character development (like Morrowind).

Character development in morrowing is hitpoints and weaponskills.

Effidian · Post by **Effidian** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:28 pm

I've got the itch to play something "old school". I'd like to create my party from the beginning, 6 or 8 characters but I'll take 4 if I need to. Skills that are actually used in the game. Turn based combat.

I've been searching all over the last couple of days trying to find the game I'm itching for. Omega Syndrome from http://www.ausgamedev.com almost hooked me, but the walk speed was too slow. You can't create your characters up front either, but I would have lived with that had I been able to move faster.

SciFi or Fantasy doesn't matter. Story is optional.

At this point I'm playing things like "Eye of the Beholder" and "Pools of Darkness", but they aren't quite as deep as I'd like (as far as character development). Helherron was good for this itch, but I played the crap out of it and would like something else.

Oh, and one more thing, an automap would be nice. Playing "Eye of the Beholder" I remember sitting there mapping things out on paper, and I don't enjoy that at all...

Any suggestions?

Davaris · Post by **Davaris** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:25 pm

Omega Syndrome from http://www.ausgamedev.com almost hooked me, but the walk speed was too slow. You can't create your characters up front either, but I would have lived with that had I been able to move faster.

I'm sure I had a Josh playing my game recently so he's probably already bought it. Anyway if you want to move faster press the shift key when you click the mouse.

tbaldree · Post by **tbaldree** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:13 am

If you like Telengard, I put together a remake of the C64 version for PCs a while back. It's pretty faithful -

http://buildingworlds.com/telengard/

I always liked the C64 graphics better than the PC - and certainly the sound effects.

Anyway, good fun. I still pop it out to play every once in a while...

Travis

Shadari · Post by **Shadari** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:44 am

tbaldree wrote:I always liked the C64 graphics better than the PC - and certainly the sound effects.

Wow, I'm not sure what to say to that.

baron calamity · Post by **baron calamity** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:51 am

X none

I perfer party based RPGs like Might & Magic, Bards Tale and most of the Ultimas

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:26 am

Thanks for the link. Now I can get some Hero Quest gaming in again

tbaldree · Post by **tbaldree** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:38 am

Shadari wrote:
tbaldree wrote:I always liked the C64 graphics better than the PC - and certainly the sound effects.
Wow, I'm not sure what to say to that.

The PC version was only CGA - Cyan, Magenta, and High Intensity White - quite possibly the ugliest colors ever put next to one another. Also, all sound was PC speaker.

By comparison, the C64 was a veritable multimedia powerhouse

Travis

JohnnyFive · Post by **JohnnyFive** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:23 pm

Anyone who's played Omega Syndrome tell me how big it is? It looks interesting and fallout-y....

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:17 pm

tbaldree wrote:If you like Telengard, I put together a remake of the C64 version for PCs a while back. It's pretty faithful -

http://buildingworlds.com/telengard/

I always liked the C64 graphics better than the PC - and certainly the sound effects.

Anyway, good fun. I still pop it out to play every once in a while...

Travis

Wait, wait, wait.

Not only did you create Fate (aka "the best game of the year"), you also made a perfectly faithful recreation of the C-64 version of Telengard?

I...I think I love you.

Seriously - thanks!

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:09 pm

Seriously - thanks!

No Telendard for you, Mr "I have to go on vacation".

Eightball · Post by **Eightball** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:15 pm

JohnnyFive wrote:Anyone who's played Omega Syndrome tell me how big it is? It looks interesting and fallout-y....

You think?? Looking at the character screenshot, here it's a total f'ing fallout SPECIAL ripoff. As in complete ripoff. (Though they renamed Endurance to Health, and took away Charisma and Luck completely...so they're more SPHIA). Though they spelled finesse wrong, so that makes me feel better.

Eightball · Post by **Eightball** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:17 pm

Oh and HI PEACEDOG

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:47 pm

"I've got the itch to play something "old school". I'd like to create my party from the beginning, 6 or 8 characters but I'll take 4 if I need to. Skills that are actually used in the game. Turn based combat."

WIZARDRY 8 BABY. "Old school" CRPG, updated graphics. What could be better? It's not freeware, but you could probably find a used copy for darn near free.

I also have to say that not much about Diablo (hell of a game though, and I enjoyed it thoroughly) is very CRPG-ish, at least in my definition. I would also put that in an ACTION genre as others have said.

First of all, combat in Diablo is in real time, and the turn based combat in the old school CRPG's was one of the most unique and interesting (and fun, imo) aspects.

OTOH, I also loved Baldur's Gate style games, and would for some reason definitely put those strongly in the CRPG genre. Funny, isn't it?

If you think about it, Baldur's Gate type games and the Diablos LOOK very similar, are both played in real time, both have RPG elements, like character selection, differing spell paths, etc. yet for whatever reason, I don't consider consider these two to be remotely related. Huh. (/me scratches head)

Davaris · Post by **Davaris** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:23 pm

You think?? Looking at the character screenshot, here it's a total f'ing fallout SPECIAL ripoff. As in complete ripoff. (Though they renamed Endurance to Health, and took away Charisma and Luck completely...so they're more SPHIA). Though they spelled finesse wrong, so that makes me feel better.

Yes it's based on Fallout and GURPs. If you look at Fallout's rules and GURPs, you'd say Fallout is ripping off GURPs, as GURPs is much older than Fallout.

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/

As for "they", its really just me. Nobody I ever teamed up with lasted very long (sadly they had no staying power). This is an Indie game made in my spare time and Fallout is my all time favourte game. I knew they would never make another game as good as Fallout was, so I decided to learn to make my own games.

P.S.
It's not SPHIA, its SIPHA. Its supposed to sound like the like the word cypher.

P.P.S.
>Though they spelled finesse wrong, so that makes me feel better.

Yes my spell checker is set to Australian spelling. I'll change it to US on my next game because most of my meager sales come from the US.

Eightball · Post by **Eightball** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:29 pm

Davaris wrote:As for "they", its really just me. Nobody I ever teamed up with lasted very long (sadly they had no staying power). This is an Indie game made in my spare time and Fallout is my all time favourte game. I knew they would never make another game as good as Fallout was, so I decided to learn to make my own games.

Very cool, glad to have you here. Always nice to have more devs on board, and simply because you had the nerve to show up and post, you'll get quite a lot of respect (from me, at the very least, if that means anything to you).

As for the Fallout/GURPS thing, I thought Fallout was originally supposed to use GURPS, but couldn't get the license to use it from Steve Jackson, so they made their own "SPECIAL" system.

It's cool you have an interest in fallout, but your character screens are more than substantially similar in aspect to Fallout character screens. Even your traits are incredibly similar (finesse/finnes (you people spell things way in a bizarre manner

), small frame, heavy handed, fast shot, good natured, skilled, gifted) are all straight from Fallout. The character list of armour class, sequence, action points, melee damage, critical chance, healing rate and carry weight is a straight list (and I want to say exactly in order from the character screen) from Fallout as well.

I'm a huge fan of Fallout also, and I'm impressed you got the impetus to think about and make a game from inspiration regarding Fallout. However, that character screen is nigh straight copyright infringement, and something that you should be very careful with.

Davaris · Post by **Davaris** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:09 pm

As for the Fallout/GURPS thing, I thought Fallout was originally supposed to use GURPS, but couldn't get the license to use it from Steve Jackson, so they made their own "SPECIAL" system.

Yes they bought the licence and intended to make Fallout GURPs. But in the interview I read (many, many years ago) they had to go through lawyers every time they wanted to make a change to the rules. As they couldn't keep doing this due to time constraints, they decided to "make up their own rules".

Its a pity they didn't use GURPs because it would have made Steve Jackson a lot more money over time.

It's cool you have an interest in fallout, but your character screens are more than substantially similar in aspect to Fallout character screens. Even your traits are incredibly similar (finesse/finnes (you people spell things way in a bizarre manner ),

Yes that's an old screen and I forgot to update it. The Perks and Traits are still very similar, but their names and descriptions have been rewritten. When I first made the game, I used Fallout rules because I was so busy with the programming. But I've been putting in my own rules over time as I've thought them up. The Traits and Perks is the last area that needs changing and I'll be doing that after I finish putting cars into the game.

If you are interested in seeing the changes made to the game over time check out the news section.

http://www.ausgamedev.com/news_map_001.html

Davaris · Post by **Davaris** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:24 pm

Eightball: I just updated that screen shot . Thanks for spotting it.

http://www.ausgamedev.com/omegasyndrome ... itled4.JPG

The Traits and Perks section are still a rip, but I'm working my way towards changing it.

Eightball · Post by **Eightball** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:45 am

Davaris wrote:Eightball: I just updated that screen shot . Thanks for spotting it.

http://www.ausgamedev.com/omegasyndrome ... itled4.JPG

The Traits and Perks section are still a rip, but I'm working my way towards changing it.

I actually downloaded OS and fiddled with it a bit. I noticed you HAD changed the traits section quite a bit since that prior cited screenshot. Great flavor to the game, as well.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:12 pm

I think it was Jackson who broke the deal. I remember an interview that discussed the opening movie in Fallout, where the dude in power armor executes someone. He didn't want it to go in at all.

Davaris · Post by **Davaris** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:39 pm

I think the interview I read was with Tim Cain. Though it was so long ago. Anyway that back and forth thing with the lawyers was taking a week each time, so they just couldn't do it.

I think it was Jackson who broke the deal. I remember an interview that discussed the opening movie in Fallout, where the dude in power armor executes someone. He didn't want it to go in at all.

That's interesting about Steve Jackson not liking that. I thought it was a pretty funny scene. Not that I condone that sort of thing in real life of course.

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:41 pm

Davaris wrote:I think the interview I read was with Tim Cain. Though it was so long ago. Anyway that back and forth thing with the lawyers was taking a week each time, so they just couldn't do it.

Sweeeeet, sweeeet billable hours.

J. Lutes · Post by **J. Lutes** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:41 pm

Eightball wrote:As for the Fallout/GURPS thing, I thought Fallout was originally supposed to use GURPS, but couldn't get the license to use it from Steve Jackson, so they made their own "SPECIAL" system.

While that's certainly true, there's no doubting that the basis for the SPECIAL system was GURPS. They made the transition relatively quickly and maintained a lot of the flavor of GURPS; although the game mechanics in Fallout have their own unique feel, they owe a lot to Jackson.

It's always been a bummer to me that Jackson bowed out of the project, since we haven't seen any GURPS crpgs since then, and I love the system. I'm one of the apparent minority who thinks that the execution-style killing in Fallout's opening movie is gratuitous and disturbing, and I don't understand why it was so essential to the devs as to be a deal-breaker.

Octopus Overlords

Freeware RPGs - Old School Hack and Slash

Do you prefer "Old School" or "New School" hack and slash RPG games?

Freeware RPGs - Old School Hack and Slash

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