Canada 2015-25 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

[IceBear]

Don't disagree. We're soon going to all be American so won't matter

[Blackhawk]

NATO would debate article 5 (an attack on one is an attack on all.) It would then either do nothing, or would collectively side with Canada.

[waitingtoconnect]

There is little European nato could do against an invasion of Canada.

The plan is simple and obvious because they’ve said it.

1. Apply punishing tariffs but apply less tariffs to the prairie provinces.
2. Demand you pick their pick for prime minister.
3. Keep applying tariffs until the prairie provinces break ranks and demand to join the US.

The Uk keeping quiet is typical of their current pitiful leadership which like the democrats has taken a head in the sand approach to threats to democracy which is likely to replaced by maga ally Nigel Farange by 2029. They have already bent the knee to Trump already in the hope of no tariffs hitting them. In doing nothing they’ll likely pay in the end and be turned into the 52nd state.

[IceBear]

Yeah, that's how I see it going too unfortunately.

[waitingtoconnect]

In trumps mind your rolled over too easily then with the new deal. So now trump is back for more thinking you are weak and expecting PP in office by October (who he thinks will give him everything he wants). And the NDP will collapse the government before then in any event. Usefully for trump.

[Rumpy]

In trumps mind your rolled over too easily then with the new deal. So now trump is back for more thinking you are weak and expecting PP in office by October (who he thinks will give him everything he wants). And the NDP will collapse the government before then in any event. Usefully for trump.

Replace PP with Danielle Smith, Premier of Alberta. He doesn't like PP, but meanwhile Danielle Smith is much more closely aligned to his views. Polievre is all talk. He's done absolutely nothing since he started moving his lips.

[Max Peck]

In trumps mind your rolled over too easily then with the new deal. So now trump is back for more thinking you are weak and expecting PP in office by October (who he thinks will give him everything he wants). And the NDP will collapse the government before then in any event. Usefully for trump.

Replace PP with Danielle Smith, Premier of Alberta. He doesn't like PP, but meanwhile Danielle Smith is much more closely aligned to his views. Polievre is all talk. He's done absolutely nothing since he started moving his lips.

Musk seems to like Poilievre, so I imagine he'll bring Trump around on him in due course.

[Rumpy]

Hmmm, maybe. I just don't get that impression from him.

[IceBear]

Musk is constantly promoting Pollieve on X and applauding him

[Rumpy]

Oh, guess I've been missing that. I don't pay attention to what happens on X very much.

[IceBear]

I don't either but CBC has reported it so read it there.

I never really used it when it was Twitter...definitely avoiding it now

Musk is going all over the world throwing his support to the parties that are alt right. So the fact he's supporting Pollieve is reason enough not to vote for him

[Rumpy]

I wouldn't be voting for him either way. I don't feel that Conservatives in general have been good for Ontario, either at the Federal or Provincial level. And I live in a region that constantly has to fight to get anything, as most of it goes to Southern Ontario.

[IceBear]

Yeah, my wife is a teacher so haven't voted PC, but this is just more of a reason not to trust him

[Rumpy]

Yeah, I'd vote Liberal or NDP or even Green before I vote Conservative.

[WYBaugh]

Just listened to Trudeau's speech from last night. Must be nice to have such a well spoken leader.

[Holman]

Just listened to Trudeau's speech from last night. Must be nice to have such a well spoken leader.

Not to mention one that both Melania and Ivanka would like to ****.

[GreenGoo]

Just listened to Trudeau's speech from last night. Must be nice to have such a well spoken leader.

No, we all hate him, because ...taxes? I think? Not sure. Definitely weren't any taxes before he was elected, I'm told that much.

[Max Peck]

A lot of people always hated him because he's Pierre Trudeau's son. We usually call those people "Western Canadians" -- we used to call them Albertans, but at some point Saskatchewan went all in as well.

I suspect that a lot of people dislike him because social media has been influencing them in that direction, and I suspect that a lot of that influence is manufactured rather than natural grass roots opinion.

[IceBear]

Yeah, like the story he was an asshole holding up the lines at a BC ski resort which turned out to be absolutely made up but thousands saw it and believed. Social media has ruined the world

[Rumpy]

And in large part, it goes a long way to showing just how divergent the Country is given how large it is. You also can't please everybody. I personally didn't think Trudeau did a bad job. He just got a bad rap towards the end because of the loud voices trying to discredit him. It all started around the time of the Trucker encampment 2 years ago, although it might have even been slowly building up to that beforehand.

[IceBear]

Covid restrictions really annoyed everyone that felt a mask was a huge infringement of their rights and they lashed out at all the leftists who valued society over individual rights.

Heck I saw a post showing a picture of Spock dying in Wrath of Khan (sorry, spoilers) with the caption "The good of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and the comments were filled with people saying that was in fact 100% wrong and the worst thing in Trek

[Victoria Raverna]

Poilievre condemned Trump's tariffs:

[IceBear]

He did. I was shocked that he spoke out against those holding his leash. Still took the opportunity to slam Trudeau for not calling back Parliament. We all know the instant he can rather than work with everyone for the betterment of Canada he'll bring down the government so there won't be anyone at the helm until the election is done and by that time a lot more damage will be done

[Max Peck]

To be fair, he has spoken out against the tariffs from the start. What else can he do, with an election in the offing. I wouldn't be surprised if he does a heel-turn after the election, but we'll see when we see.

It'll be interesting to see if the NDP and/or the Bloc do follow through to defeat the government and trigger an election right away once parliament reconvenes. They might decide that they (or at least the country) are better off with the status quo until the geopolitical situation stabilizes or the clock runs out and an election has to be called regardless.

[waitingtoconnect]

I’ve been watching Canadian political leaders talk from both sides including the conservative leader.

I now fully support your annexation into the United States.

That way we might get decent political leadership. Outside of your premier of Alberta I think trump has awakened a horde of sleeping moose.


I’m not sure if it’s the lack of Murdoch media but your political discourse seems a lot more mature than the us, Australia, the Uk or New Zealand.

[GreenGoo]

To be fair, he has spoken out against the tariffs from the start. What else can he do, with an election in the offing. I wouldn't be surprised if he does a heel-turn after the election, but we'll see when we see.

It'll be interesting to see if the NDP and/or the Bloc do follow through to defeat the government and trigger an election right away once parliament reconvenes. They might decide that they (or at least the country) are better off with the status quo until the geopolitical situation stabilizes or the clock runs out and an election has to be called regardless.

I would think it makes sense to let the Trudeau government take full responsibility for this nonsense and then swoop in once things have stabilized, as you mentioned.

Only a power hungry demagogue would want this mess.

[hepcat]

I was curious about the Truedeau backlash as the last I remembered, he seemed popular. But it feels like almost overnight he went from the darling of Canada to a pariah. Of course, I'm not Canadian (never had poutine in my life even), so I probably missed a LOT of news from that area.

[Sudy]

He made himself the enemy of the alt-right during COVID and the numerous protests and conspiracies by being logical and reasonable. He's accused of "woke" politics and irrationally blamed and smeared over usual right-left debates, but willful ignorance and denial of facts have obviously been mounting for a while now which has intensified it. There were some major unfulfilled campaign promises such as election/balloting reform. But he's also just been in power for 9+ years and things almost always turn sour for a Canadian leader and ruling party by that point regardless of the actual state of things. He took a gamble by calling the last election early and wound up with another minority government rather than the majority he was hoping for. A coalition with the further-left NDP did bring about some positive things like limited socialized dental care.

The smearing isn't dissimilar to the treatment of Biden or Obama. Now imagine if they'd gained a third term in a row (which I know isn't possible in the US), yet still failed to deliver on many things that mattered to progressives. The right is empowered but those on the left who supported him are sick of him too. Trudeau isn't a saint and the majority of the Liberal party is far from "leftist" (LMAO) beyond some social policies. They too suckle at the corporate teat. But legitimate criticism is buried by sensationalism and lies. He's in the process of stepping down now, but it's too little, too late. Though in reality the party's fate in the next election was probably sealed once they won the previous one. A new party leader will take his place as prime minister, but the government will soon be brought down by a vote of non-confidence anyway and an election will be triggered.

[GreenGoo]

Excellent summary. Better than I could do by far.

[hepcat]

Yes, thanks for the excellent summary!

[Rumpy]

It also doesn't help that Polievre ran some American-style attack ads against him, and he's been one of the most vocal opponents. But IMHO, he's all bark, no bite. I still feel like it went a long way to discrediting Trudeau.

I’m not sure if it’s the lack of Murdoch media but your political discourse seems a lot more mature than the us, Australia, the Uk or New Zealand.

We like to think so. It might have something to do with our parliamentary system and the fact that we have more than two parties, which helps to keep things in check.

[Max Peck]

It also doesn't help that Polievre ran some American-style attack ads against him, and he's been one of the most vocal opponents. But IMHO, he's all bark, no bite. I still feel like it went a long way to discrediting Trudeau.

The GOP-style attack ads go back to the Harper era, if not even earlier. They worked great for a few years, then (initially) didn't work at all when Trudeau became the Liberal party leader.

[Rumpy]

Yeah, you're right. I guess I just forgot about them. These seem to be much more punchy than I remember though.

[Max Peck]

The Conservatives mimic the GOP, and the GOP has been becoming more and more extreme, so it makes sense. Plus the right wing has more allies in the social media space than ever before to amplify the effect.

[IceBear]

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Monday U.S. President Donald Trump will hold off on levying tariffs on Canada for at least 30 days after Canada made a series of commitments to improve security along the border.

The country can let out a collective sigh of relief — at least for now.

To get Trump to shelve his punishing tariffs, Trudeau said Canada is reinforcing the border with new choppers, technology and personnel and stepping up its co-ordination with American officials to stop the flow of fentanyl.

Trudeau said, all told, there will be 10,000 front-line personnel working along the border to address Trump's stated priority: a major crackdown on drugs and migrants.

The prime minister also made a series of new commitments to Trump, including a promise to appoint a new fentanyl "czar" who will lead Canada's efforts to crack down on the deadly drug. And he promised to list Mexican cartels, one of the top purveyors of fentanyl and other drugs in Canada and the U.S., as terrorists under Canadian law.

Trudeau said Canada is launching a "Canada-U.S. Joint Strike Force," that will be tasked with combating organized crime and money laundering.

"Proposed tariffs will be paused for at least 30 days while we work together," Trudeau said in a social media post.

[hepcat]

I honestly think Trump saw what a goddamn mess he was about to create and was anxious to accept ANY offer from folks so he could avoid it all.

[IceBear]

I honestly think Trump saw what a goddamn mess he was about to create and was anxious to accept ANY offer from folks so he could avoid it all.

Probably

[Rumpy]

The Conservatives mimic the GOP, and the GOP has been becoming more and more extreme, so it makes sense. Plus the right wing has more allies in the social media space than ever before to amplify the effect.

Makes sense. We are definitely seeing more of it. The shift is interesting to say the least, given that there used to be a time when that wasn't a thing, particularly because generally tend to vote for the party, not the party leader.

I honestly think Trump saw what a goddamn mess he was about to create and was anxious to accept ANY offer from folks so he could avoid it all.

Or it could have been massively overblown from the start. It's partly the media's fault, feeding on people's anxiety. He's been making noise for some time, and perhaps it was just felt it was time to deal.

[stessier]

I honestly think Trump saw what a goddamn mess he was about to create and was anxious to accept ANY offer from folks so he could avoid it all.

What the heck are you smoking? I promise you he thinks he won and will have new demands in 30 days.

[Rumpy]

Of course, that's what he'll end up saying, the way he won with Columbia and Mexico. Isn't media spin great?!