Trump Health Policy Thread

[Grifman]

So Smoove can sleep well at night, I have created this thread.

So let’s start with our first bit of insanity:

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/trump- ... -cdc-mmwr/

Trump has halted the release of bird flu studies and ordered studies on CA fire impacts.

[Grifman]

CDC heath censorship:

https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/local ... 3df4ee9301#

[Grifman]

NIH under lockdown:

https://www.krwg.org/health/2025-02-04/ ... -of-health

[Smoove_B]

Thanks...but not really.

News from last night is really bad - the Institutes of Health cutting grant funding to research universities:

Grants paid by the federal government have two components. One covers the direct costs of performing the research, paying for salaries, equipment, and consumables like chemicals or enzymes. But the government also pays what are called indirect costs. These go to the universities and research institutes, covering the costs of providing and maintaining the lab space, heat and electricity, administrative and HR functions, and more.

These indirect costs are negotiated with each research institution and average close to 30 percent of the amount awarded for the research. Some institutions see indirect rates as high as half the value of the grant.

On Friday, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) announced that negotiated rates were ending. Every existing grant, and all those funded in the future, will see the indirect cost rate set to just 15 percent. With no warning and no time to adjust to the change in policy, this will prove catastrophic for the budget of nearly every biomedical research institution.

You can go here to see the 2023 levels of NIH funding in your state and how these cuts will affect the job market and various institutions.

This is very clearly an attack on higher education and all part of the Project 2025 play book. What they don't understand (presumably) is how much the private sector (i.e. for profit corporations) rely on the research and information that is generated at public universities. It's been pointed out that if you own stock in a biomedical corporation...prepare for pain. Unless the theory is that corporations are suddenly going to take up the slack and start doing all this additional leg work and that'll presumably increase their value...magically.

[raydude]

This is very clearly an attack on higher education and all part of the Project 2025 play book. What they either don't understand (presumably) is how much the private sector (i.e. for profit corporations) rely on the research and information that is generated at public universities. It's been pointed out that if you own stock in a biomedical corporation...prepare for pain.

Actually I'm curious to learn more about this feedback loop between the private and public health sector. I always thought private biomedical corps also did their own research? And even if they do rely on public research how does that cause their stock to go down? This is strictly from a curiosity viewpoint; I'm clueless and I want to know more.

[Smoove_B]

They help with a lot of the preliminary work related to approvals necessary for treatments or methods for treatment. So the private sector can use the studies the NIH generates demonstrating/confirming basic safety or how a treatment mechanism works and then use that as part of their application process to the FDA when trying to gain approvals.

The pubic institutions aren't doing it in direct support of any specific corporation, though there have been private/public partnerships (below) that have arguably been invaluable. Instead, they're taking generic elements of either new treatments -or- a process to develop a new drug or treatment and conducting the research showing its effective or scientifically valid. So any company could take [study X] on how a mouse metabolizes [substance A] and then use that to further their argument as to why [new proposed drug] should be approved.

If you kick out the "legs" of the public research sector, now the private sector will need to somehow absorb all that preliminary grunt work (presumably) as no one else would be doing it - and certainly not sharing it with other corporations.

Hopefully this page is here in a week...

[Max Peck]

It's weird how Leon & Co want the best and the brightest, but also want to cripple higher education. How is that going to wor... Oh, right, H-1B visas.

[Smoove_B]

Cuts to CDC are coming:

Agency staff were notified in emails that all the centers, institutes and offices received a list of their staff members who are in probationary or temporary status, according to a senior CDC official who requested anonymity because they were not authorized to speak on this topic for the agency.

Senior leaders were asked to designate who on the list were mission critical and not mission critical, the source who has direct knowledge of the actions told NPR.

Those considered temporary or probationary employees would include new supervisors, fellows and others with Title 42 appointments hired for being highly skilled. This represents a broad range of employees — from recent hires who are the pipeline of new talent to senior scientists with many years of experience.

Losing even half of these workers would be "devastating" for the agency's current disease outbreak responses, which includes H5N1 bird flu, measles and mpox, the source said.

[$iljanus]

They help with a lot of the preliminary work related to approvals necessary for treatments or methods for treatment. So the private sector can use the studies the NIH generates demonstrating/confirming basic safety or how a treatment mechanism works and then use that as part of their application process to the FDA when trying to gain approvals.

The pubic institutions aren't doing it in direct support of any specific corporation, though there have been private/public partnerships (below) that have arguably been invaluable. Instead, they're taking generic elements of either new treatments -or- a process to develop a new drug or treatment and conducting the research showing its effective or scientifically valid. So any company could take [study X] on how a mouse metabolizes [substance A] and then use that to further their argument as to why [new proposed drug] should be approved.

If you kick out the "legs" of the public research sector, now the private sector will need to somehow absorb all that preliminary grunt work (presumably) as no one else would be doing it - and certainly not sharing it with other corporations.

Hopefully this page is here in a week...

Excellent summary, Smoove. Respect!

Also a great example of the public private partnership is the NIH Moderna collaboration which brought about the Covid vaccine in really unprecedented time. I'm concerned that when the next virus hits no one is going to want to collaborate until it's too late due to the political climate. And we'll be living out a post apocalypse movie where a band of survivors fight their way to Atlanta thinking the CDC has a cure not realizing that they stopped working on important things like that years ago. (Ideally I'd fight my way to the NIH in Bethesda.)

[Smoove_B]

Hey, I know some things!

I'm also seeing today that apparently prominent GOP members don't understand that "transgenic" isn't the same as "transgender".

Science, kids. Stay in school.

[$iljanus]

Hey, I know some things!

I'm also seeing today that apparently prominent GOP members don't understand that "transgenic" isn't the same as "transgender".

Science, kids. Stay in school.

Those who know, know and those who don't legislate. It's like watching congressional hearings on tech with committee members born back when biplanes were cutting edge.

[Smoove_B]

What's interesting about the NIH cuts is how quiet its been - at least in my state. I'm sure they need to have the various Boards and lawyers and division heads review everything before they can make a statement. However, that they didn't see it coming...is odd. So now they're all likely meeting with accountants and scrambling to figure out what to say and how to react, but for the Trump administration, the NIH issue is already in the rear view and they're cooking up whatever is going to drop on Monday.

Just absolutely flooding the zone and trying to cause as much chaos as possible as quickly as possible.

[Holman]

Hey, I know some things!

I'm also seeing today that apparently prominent GOP members don't understand that "transgenic" isn't the same as "transgender".

Science, kids. Stay in school.

At this point, I expect them to eliminate the Department of Transportation and attempt to outlaw the transitive property.

[Kraken]

Just absolutely flooding the zone and trying to cause as much chaos as possible as quickly as possible.

So far, it's working brilliantly.

I like the argument that trump is ruling by executive order because he's an especially weak POTUS (HCR yesterday called him a figurehead) who can't get any of this through Congress and has only the flimsiest idea of how government works. Republicans have very thin majorities and most of trump's crap is unpopular even with them. EOs can be quickly reversed by the next guy to come along or overturned by court order (to the extent that we continue to heed the courts), whereas legislation has more staying power.

The only actual legislation we can expect in the foreseeable future is a massive tax giveaway.

[$iljanus]

What's interesting about the NIH cuts is how quiet its been - at least in my state. I'm sure they need to have the various Boards and lawyers and division heads review everything before they can make a statement. However, that they didn't see it coming...is odd. So now they're all likely meeting with accountants and scrambling to figure out what to say and how to react, but for the Trump administration, the NIH issue is already in the rear view and they're cooking up whatever is going to drop on Monday.

Just absolutely flooding the zone and trying to cause as much chaos as possible as quickly as possible.

Everyone is in a tizzy up in the Boston area due to the large concentration of biotech, universities, research hospitals.

I suppose in the Midwest it doesn't get much play which makes sense actually. But when DOGE goes after farm subsidies, agriculture grants, etc that may be more interesting news for them.

[Holman]

Everyone is in a tizzy up in the Boston area due to the large concentration of biotech, universities, research hospitals.

I suppose in the Midwest it doesn't get much play which makes sense actually. But when DOGE goes after farm subsidies, agriculture grants, etc that may be more interesting news for them.

Most Midwestern college towns run on Eds & Meds as well: Ann Arbor, Madison, Urbana-Champaign, etc. They're often important economic engines for the whole state.

Trump is enacting his grievances against everyone who ever thought they were smarter than a serially bankrupt real-estate developer, and the tech-nazis are all-in because they think they'll get to scoop up the pieces at fire-sale prices.

This is how it all ends.

[Smoove_B]

I suppose in the Midwest it doesn't get much play which makes sense actually. But when DOGE goes after farm subsidies, agriculture grants, etc that may be more interesting news for them.

That's the interesting thing - the whole USAID thing Musk kicked off last week? Very few news agencies picked up on the fact that the USAID program (in part) gives money to farmers in the United States to subsidize food for health and peace world wide. By targeting USAID, it will invariably impact farmers in the midwest.

In total, the U.S. Agency for International Development, or USAID, last year purchased $2 billion in U.S.-grown crops from corn and soybeans to wheat, sorghum, vegetable oil and peas. Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin farmers were among those selling their crops to the program.

USAID funds projects in some 120 countries aimed at fighting epidemics, educating children, providing clean water and supporting other areas of development.

[Holman]

China is going to achieve global hegemony by filling in the vacuum left by US foreign aid.

They won't even need an army.

[$iljanus]

I suppose in the Midwest it doesn't get much play which makes sense actually. But when DOGE goes after farm subsidies, agriculture grants, etc that may be more interesting news for them.

That's the interesting thing - the whole USAID thing Musk kicked off last week? Very few news agencies picked up on the fact that the USAID program (in part) gives money to farmers in the United States to subsidize food for health and peace world wide. By targeting USAID, it will invariably impact farmers in the midwest.

In total, the U.S. Agency for International Development, or USAID, last year purchased $2 billion in U.S.-grown crops from corn and soybeans to wheat, sorghum, vegetable oil and peas. Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin farmers were among those selling their crops to the program.

USAID funds projects in some 120 countries aimed at fighting epidemics, educating children, providing clean water and supporting other areas of development.

Was reading some local Iowa news addressing this. The farmers are concerned but the state agriculture secretary and gov office has no comment. They may not want to piss off Trump. I don't want to presume how Iowans voted but maybe there's going to be some reaping of what was sowed...

[Smoove_B]

That's what I can't quite understand about this health stuff. I get that for them public health = bad so like Frankenstein's monster, they're trying to smash things. But what I am confused about is whether or not they realize all of the unintended consequences to what they're doing. I can kind of see it both ways - that they know and don't care or they're just so focused on dismantling all things public health that they're not at all thinking how that's going to affect global health and politics (like Holman noted).

It just doesn't make any sense other than mindless destruction for the sake of doing it and not really bothering with the bigger picture details, presumably because America will be fine (Spoiler - we will not).

[LordMortis]

China is going to achieve global hegemony by filling in the vacuum left by US foreign aid.

They won't even need an army.

This is my belief, so it must be true. Only with our white supremacist, imperialistic, christofascist egos, we may not so gracefully in to that good night and then there's how much Putin's Russia has infiltrated our political and economic systems via president Leon, assistant VP Thiel, and their collective orange stooge and his GOP establishment. So we might just collapse internally of our weight with literal bloody infighting while our world citizenry bails for calmer shores. One always hopes that it's our hysteria but it's never been even in the same gravitational pull as where we are now.

[Blackhawk]

I'm also seeing today that apparently prominent GOP members don't understand that "transgenic" isn't the same as "transgender".

Science, kids. Stay in school.

At this point, I expect them to eliminate the Department of Transportation and attempt to outlaw the transitive property.

Well, the FDIC does engage in a great many trans actions!

[Punisher]

I suppose in the Midwest it doesn't get much play which makes sense actually. But when DOGE goes after farm subsidies, agriculture grants, etc that may be more interesting news for them.

That's the interesting thing - the whole USAID thing Musk kicked off last week? Very few news agencies picked up on the fact that the USAID program (in part) gives money to farmers in the United States to subsidize food for health and peace world wide. By targeting USAID, it will invariably impact farmers in the midwest.

In total, the U.S. Agency for International Development, or USAID, last year purchased $2 billion in U.S.-grown crops from corn and soybeans to wheat, sorghum, vegetable oil and peas. Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin farmers were among those selling their crops to the program.

USAID funds projects in some 120 countries aimed at fighting epidemics, educating children, providing clean water and supporting other areas of development.

Was reading some local Iowa news addressing this. The farmers are concerned but the state agriculture secretary and gov office has no comment. They may not want to piss off Trump. I don't want to presume how Iowans voted but maybe there's going to be some reaping of what was sowed...

I mean, isn't that exactly what farmers do anyway?

[MCQueen2]

This news alerts me since the situation shows signs of being worrisome. The decision to stop bird flu studies potentially would impact our ability to prepare for future outbreaks but conducting studies about California fires seems urgent even though everything feels complicated. We must continue waiting to observe how the situation develops.

[Smoove_B]

I think you might be missing the bigger picture on the California fire research. It wasn't ordered into the latest issue of the MMWR because of an interest in communicating science or the public health impacts of large-spread wildfires. Instead, Trump told them to find something related to wildfires to he could use it as a hammer against Gavin Newsom. More to the point, the President of the United states (for the first time I'm aware of) directed an official publication of a governmental agency to remove items (bird flu) and add something that would help him go after a political target.

This is insane.

[Hipolito]

I heard a rumor that, because of what's happening to the CDC, the American Medical Association might be stepping up to become a source of public health information.

[Smoove_B]

I'd heard something similar, but I'm not entirely sure how it would work. The AMA represents (and presumably has access to) a fraction of the data and information under the umbrella of public health. There's been a pretty big...divide between private and public health since the 1980s, and while the relationship has improved, both are still siloed enough as to make things complicated.

All that said, anything they can do to share/publish information is going to be helpful but I'm not going to hope we're going to be saved by a professional organization (though I do appreciate the effort, if true).

[$iljanus]

I'd heard something similar, but I'm not entirely sure how it would work. The AMA represents (and presumably has access to) a fraction of the data and information under the umbrella of public health. There's been a pretty big...divide between private and public health since the 1980s, and while the relationship has improved, both are still siloed enough as to make things complicated.

All that said, anything they can do to share/publish information is going to be helpful but I'm not going to hope we're going to be saved by a professional organization (though I do appreciate the effort, if true).

The AMA represents the medical profession while the CDC represents the public. The CDC is being throttled but having the AMA step into the role is not ideal in my mind. That’s the idealistic purpose of government which is imperfect at times but still something to aspire to. The Federal Government represents the interests of the people, not just an industry. But this is where we are today so I guess we have to work around the government now.

[Alefroth]

Any bets on compliance?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/judge-orde ... 0ideology.

A federal judge on Tuesday ordered the Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and Food and Drug Administration to restore webpages and data that had been removed in compliance with President Trump's executive order on gender ideology.

U.S. District Judge John Bates agreed to grant a temporary restraining order sought by the group Doctors for America, which argued that its members used the websites when treating patients and conducting research. The nonprofit organization said that the removal of the webpages by the Department of Health and Human Services and its components violated federal law.

[Smoove_B]

Any bets on compliance?

We'll know after 11:59pm tonight as that's the deadline.

I'm guessing they'll say, "It's complicated and it's going to take us some time to restore things." And that'll be good enough to comply. Then more and more unrelated nonsense will happen over the next few weeks (like an EO to ban low-flow toilets) and this will get lost in the shuffle until *another* lawsuit is filed.

[LordMortis]

I'm guessing they'll say, "It's complicated and it's going to take us some time to restore things."

"I mean what can you do?" Isn't that his answer stall for everything. Except now he has President Leon acting and Vice President Thiel with work from FedSoc and the White Privilege Foundation somehow managing destroy dozens of entities a day without stopping.

[Blackhawk]

I'm expecting them to go with "The backups were corrupted/had DEI."

[Smoove_B]

NIH grants resumed:

The National Institutes of Health (NIH) told staff in a memo obtained by Popular Information that the agency will end the spending freeze ordained by Trump and instead comply with restraining orders issued by two federal courts.

The memo, penned by NIH Deputy Director for Extramural Research Michael Lauer and NIH Chief Grants Officer Michelle Bulls, informed the agency’s grants management officers that their programs “fall under recently issued Temporary Restraining Orders” issued by the U.S. District Court for the District of Rhode Island and the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. Per the memo, as of February 12, it is NIH policy to comply and issue new and continuing grants.

We'll see how long this holds. I'm guessing the next move is that DOGE is somehow going to be empowered to claw-back monies from NIH or the grantees - like what they just did to FEMA funding in NYC.

[Smoove_B]

MAHA commission created:

President Trump on Thursday launched a commission to be headed by new HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. that will study childhood chronic illnesses, including asthma, autoimmune illnesses and autism.

The big picture: The Make America Health Again Commission, announced shortly after Trump swore in Kennedy in the Oval Office, is charged with creating a strategy on improving childhood health, with explicit directions to scrutinize the use of common medications like stimulants.

Zoom in: Trump's order calls for a report within 100 days that assesses the "threat that potential over-utilization of medication," along with certain food ingredients and chemicals pose to children.

The order specifically directs the commission to assess widely-used mental health interventions like selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, antipsychotics, mood stabilizers and stimulants, as well as weight-loss drugs.

The commission will also examine the effectiveness of federal data on childhood health and evaluate current child health education and funding programs.

And so it begins:

It also indicates that changes could extend into what health insurance plans cover: The order directs agencies to make "expanded treatment options" available and to allow health insurance plans can cover benefits that support lifestyle changes and disease prevention.

[stessier]

100 days is plenty of time to assess the complexities of all the drugs and foods that children use. Easy peasy.

[Smoove_B]

Something tells me these reports are already written...probably an appendix in the Project 2025 binder, somewhere.

[LordMortis]

100 days is plenty of time to assess the complexities of all the drugs and foods that children use. Easy peasy. to get industry kickbacks to create loopholes for loyal pharma while also appeasing holistic medicine MAGA sycophants at the same time while concurrently allowing people to forget about this gesture entirely like they did in 2016 with the better health care plan than Obamacare they had ready to go in the first 100 days.

[LawBeefaroni]

MAHA commission created:

President Trump on Thursday launched a commission to be headed by new HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. that will study childhood chronic illnesses, including asthma, autoimmune illnesses and autism.

The big picture: The Make America Health Again Commission, announced shortly after Trump swore in Kennedy in the Oval Office, is charged with creating a strategy on improving childhood health, with explicit directions to scrutinize the use of common medications like stimulants.

Zoom in: Trump's order calls for a report within 100 days that assesses the "threat that potential over-utilization of medication," along with certain food ingredients and chemicals pose to children.

The order specifically directs the commission to assess widely-used mental health interventions like selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, antipsychotics, mood stabilizers and stimulants, as well as weight-loss drugs.

The commission will also examine the effectiveness of federal data on childhood health and evaluate current child health education and funding programs.

And so it begins:

It also indicates that changes could extend into what health insurance plans cover: The order directs agencies to make "expanded treatment options" available and to allow health insurance plans can cover benefits that support lifestyle changes and disease prevention.

If they expand adolescent mental health coverage, I'll fall out of my chair.

[Smoove_B]

If they expand adolescent mental health coverage, I'll fall out of my chair.

Expand it to cover working on a farm, yes.

[WYBaugh]

The order specifically directs the commission to assess widely-used mental health interventions like selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, antipsychotics, mood stabilizers and stimulants, as well as weight-loss drugs.

Yeah, let's outlaw SSRIs. What could possibly go wrong?