Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE)

[Blackhawk]

I replied "Because all of the others have laws concerning how they store and use the information."

[Kraken]

Musk's team is training a LLM on government databases that no other AI has ever seen, with the fattest one of all being the Treasury. When it's operational it will set budgets and choose personnel, with Congress' blessing because work is hard. The alpha version is already in play.

[waitingtoconnect]

It’s why he’s upset the iron mountain records aren’t digitised. Most records from 1776 thru 1975 aren’t going to be digitised for the computer to suck it all in.

Without knowing how we got here ai isn’t going to be as good.

For those of us alive the Ai could also be used to target people. Say nasty things about doge, no social security for you and maybe your health records get leaked.

For non Americans you get arrested at the border or your visa denied.

[RunningMn9]

Musk's team is training a LLM on government databases that no other AI has ever seen, with the fattest one of all being the Treasury. When it's operational it will set budgets and choose personnel, with Congress' blessing because work is hard. The alpha version is already in play.

Can I get a link on this to something that actually has knowledge of what they are doing? Having a database full of data isn’t “training” an LLM to do anything. The database doesn’t have any data in it that can be used to establish a fitness function that would teach the AI to do anything.

I’m skeptical.

[Punisher]

According to a certain family member, your doctor, car dealer, and all sorts of other people have your SSN, so why not Musk and his secretive police?

This seems to be the prevailing opinion from my MAGA family members as well.

Since it's fine for random to have it ask them to send it to me please. I could use a new credit card.

[LawBeefaroni]

I replied "Because all of the others have laws concerning how they store and use the information."

It's also compartmentalized and primarily only used to verify identity when your doctor or phone provider use it.

DOGE is accessing the data across systems. Treasury, HHS, Justice, etc. They can build a much more complete picture. It's not just about the SSN.

The mental gymnastics MAGA goes through to justify things they would otherwise be losing their shit over is astounding.

[LordMortis]

The mental gymnastics MAGA goes through to justify things they would otherwise be losing their shit over is astounding.

The things they have been losing their shit over for years already. "SSN was never meant to be an identifier outside of payment and benefits." "Shouldn't be tracking me." "No right to use my personal information." "money under the mattress because they have no right to know what I own." etc... It's been part of their very loud and defiant small government chants since I began to learn about the world of political viewpoints.

[Zarathud]

Every hacker and foreign intelligence service in the world now knows the real gold isn’t in Fort Knox. It’s in DOGE’s LLM database. And they’ve already shown their security and skill set is far short of what should be expected.

That data is going to create serious issues long term. Musk should go to prison, but chances are he’ll eventually ask for asylum and surrender US in payment.

[GreenGoo]

I replied "Because all of the others have laws concerning how they store and use the information."

Can someone explain to me why your doctor or car dealer have your SSN? Also, phone provider? Wtf?

[GreenGoo]

The mental gymnastics MAGA goes through to justify things they would otherwise be losing their shit over is astounding.

I recently read a post by a supposed Canadian that we shouldn't jump to conclusions about Drumpf, and how his attacks on Canada will likely end once we've removed our lame duck Prime Minister. It's not drumpf attacking us, it's Trudeau.

At which point I could only marvel.

[LordMortis]

I replied "Because all of the others have laws concerning how they store and use the information."

Can someone explain to me why your doctor or car dealer have your SSN? Also, phone provider? Wtf?

Doctor has it because SSN has become a national ID.

Presumably a car dealer would get take it for credit purposes and possibly for plating/registration purposes, again as a form uniform ID. That, however, is an assumption on my part.

Now why a cable company should need it for credit purposes is completely beyond me and yet not only do they require it, but if I call my provider they use the last 4 to validate who I am.

[IceBear]

Well with all the identity theft out there I'm sure it's a safe guard from someone opening up credit cards, car loans, medical claims, etc if they know your name and address.

[GreenGoo]

Doctor has it because SSN has become a national ID.

That's...insane. No wonder ID theft is so prevalent. @Icebear: Everyone having your SSN is more likely to result in fraud, not less.

I don't know exactly how it works in Canada, but I know none of the organizations mentioned so far have my SIN (Canada's SSN).

[Kraken]

Musk's team is training a LLM on government databases that no other AI has ever seen, with the fattest one of all being the Treasury. When it's operational it will set budgets and choose personnel, with Congress' blessing because work is hard. The alpha version is already in play.

Can I get a link on this to something that actually has knowledge of what they are doing? Having a database full of data isn’t “training” an LLM to do anything. The database doesn’t have any data in it that can be used to establish a fitness function that would teach the AI to do anything.

I’m skeptical.

DOGE is working on a custom chatbot called GSAi

Relax, it's merely going to increase productivity! Search GSAi to see other perspectives.

[IceBear]

Doctor has it because SSN has become a national ID.

That's...insane. No wonder ID theft is so prevalent. @Icebear: Everyone having your SSN is more likely to result in fraud, not less.

I don't know exactly how it works in Canada, but I know none of the organizations mentioned so far have my SIN (Canada's SSN).

That's true...I was thinking my doctor did, but their databases are health card unique keys.

As a fyi in my first year of engineering there was another student that had my first and last name, middle initial and birth date. I often wonder if I should open a credit card as him

[LordMortis]

Doctor has it because SSN has become a national ID.

That's...insane. No wonder ID theft is so prevalent. @Icebear: Everyone having your SSN is more likely to result in fraud, not less.

I don't know exactly how it works in Canada, but I know none of the organizations mentioned so far have my SIN (Canada's SSN).

Given how much medical has been hacked in the last 5 years, ...yeah, although quite frankly since the Experian "you might have been exposed but probably not (Oh did we not say they got everything on nearly everyone, even though you didn't actually register with us)" it matters very little. All you can do is lock your credit down and actively monitor it yourself. I get random tests on my credit card every few years with a something like $.10 bill for a sticker and every few years I cycle to a new credit card number and code. I'm a bit surprised that they get through, as I get text every time someone fails and they rarely try. Like once or twice a year at most.

[GreenGoo]

@Americans: We use other ID, not the federal government issued, tax connected, ultimate, final, last stand ID for these things.

I'm not claiming we use no ID at the doctor or car dealership, just not the SIN.

[LawBeefaroni]

Doctor has it because SSN has become a national ID.

That's...insane. No wonder ID theft is so prevalent. @Icebear: Everyone having your SSN is more likely to result in fraud, not less.

I don't know exactly how it works in Canada, but I know none of the organizations mentioned so far have my SIN (Canada's SSN).

The SSN was never intended to be a national ID. It was created in the 30s for social security benefits.

IIRC the history correctly, there was a push for a national ID in the 50s-60s but fear about the government "tracking" its citizens killed it. So the SSN, which was never intended to be used for a national ID, became the de facto national ID. And it's horrible at it because it was never designed to be an ID.

[RunningMn9]

DOGE is working on a custom chatbot called GSAi

Feels like we are taking a leap there from what is described, to AI replacing Congress, right?

I will say that I laughed out loud at the line about "we have to try to understand how the government is spending money". Yeah, because you have no fucking idea what you are doing, or what you are looking at, and it's only been 3 weeks, and you are trying to fire everyone that does know.

[Blackhawk]

We're taking lots of leaps, and I'm skeptical of any hard claims about specific plans and intentions (of which there are likely many.) That path leads to anger and panic about suppositions and guesses. That way lies the conspiracy theory bull we've watched MAGA touting for years. I try to limit myself to actual actions and their motivations, while staying noncommittally aware of other possibilities.

[Blackhawk]

In any case, today's target is the FAA.

Time to keep your feet on the ground.

[RunningMn9]

We're taking lots of leaps, and I'm skeptical of any hard claims about specific plans and intentions (of which there are likely many.) That path leads to anger and panic about suppositions and guesses. That way lies the conspiracy theory bull we've watched MAGA touting for years. I try to limit myself to actual actions and their motivations, while staying noncommittally aware of other possibilities.

That's where I'm trying to be. What we KNOW is horrendous enough.

As for the FAA - I have to travel for work in a few weeks, unless I'm arbitrarily terminated beforehand. Not stressful at all.

[Kraken]

DOGE is working on a custom chatbot called GSAi

Feels like we are taking a leap there from what is described, to AI replacing Congress, right?

I will say that I laughed out loud at the line about "we have to try to understand how the government is spending money". Yeah, because you have no fucking idea what you are doing, or what you are looking at, and it's only been 3 weeks, and you are trying to fire everyone that does know.

Well, you can guess what Musk's end objective is. But sure, the move-fast-and-break-things stage is going to take a while before he gets to the fix-it-with-tech stage.

[Smoove_B]

In any case, today's target is the FAA.

And the FDA - because who cares about food, medicine, cosmetics and a few other...interesting things that no one cares about.

The Trump administration’s effort to slash the size of the federal workforce reached the Food and Drug Administration this weekend, as recently hired employees who review the safety of food ingredients, medical devices and other products were fired.

Probationary employees across the FDA received notices on Saturday evening that their jobs were being eliminated, according to three FDA staffers who spoke to the Associated Press on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

[msduncan]

Doctor has it because SSN has become a national ID.

That's...insane. No wonder ID theft is so prevalent. @Icebear: Everyone having your SSN is more likely to result in fraud, not less.

I don't know exactly how it works in Canada, but I know none of the organizations mentioned so far have my SIN (Canada's SSN).

The SSN was never intended to be a national ID. It was created in the 30s for social security benefits.

IIRC the history correctly, there was a push for a national ID in the 50s-60s but fear about the government "tracking" its citizens killed it. So the SSN, which was never intended to be used for a national ID, became the de facto national ID. And it's horrible at it because it was never designed to be an ID.

Fun fact. Social Security cards used to be metal. I know a couple friends who found them metal detecting.

[Unagi]

Doctor has it because SSN has become a national ID.

That's...insane. No wonder ID theft is so prevalent. @Icebear: Everyone having your SSN is more likely to result in fraud, not less.

I don't know exactly how it works in Canada, but I know none of the organizations mentioned so far have my SIN (Canada's SSN).

The SSN was never intended to be a national ID. It was created in the 30s for social security benefits.

IIRC the history correctly, there was a push for a national ID in the 50s-60s but fear about the government "tracking" its citizens killed it. So the SSN, which was never intended to be used for a national ID, became the de facto national ID. And it's horrible at it because it was never designed to be an ID.

Fun fact. Social Security cards used to be metal. I know a couple friends who found them metal detecting.

Fun but not exactly a fact.

There was a time when people would have a metal card made, but they have never been issued/created that way officially.

So, no, SS cards didn’t used to be metal. But your friends did find some.

[Blackhawk]

I've got my father's (unofficial, apparently) card around here somewhere.

[LawBeefaroni]

People used to engrave them on their guns. In the event they were stolen, the SSN would help find the owner if ever recovered. Kind of funny to see them for sale in used shops.

[Zarathud]

DOGE is allegedly trying to get access to the IRS IDRS system. This is the database identifying all of your tax payments, tax returns, refunds and bank accounts where deposits were made. This data is highly restricted, with prison sentences for improper use and access.

This is more private data than Trump’s tax returns which he refused to share.

Elon has no legitimate basis to ask for this data to locate government waste or fraud. People need to go to prison for accessing this information.

In the meantime, I have the IRS not picking up the phone to confirm a $750,000+ tax payment made by a client’s check. Probably because the people hired to process tax payments are the new hires.

[Holman]

They told us long ago that this was their plan. We're watching government being drowned in a bathtub.

That things no longer work could not possibly make them happier.

[RunningMn9]

They told us long ago that this was their plan. We're watching government being drowned in a bathtub.

That things no longer work could not possibly make them happier.

What was their plan for illegally accessing the IRS data? How are they going to find fraud or waste in there? I get the answer is “they aren’t looking for fraud or waste”, but what do they claim they want to do with it?

Also - how quickly do we think that damaging tax info will be leaked on their enemies? 30 minutes?

[Blackhawk]

Also - how quickly do we think that damaging tax info will be leaked on their enemies? 30 minutes?

No chance. Once it goes public, kompromat becomes useless.

[Holman]

They told us long ago that this was their plan. We're watching government being drowned in a bathtub.

That things no longer work could not possibly make them happier.

What was their plan for illegally accessing the IRS data? How are they going to find fraud or waste in there? I get the answer is “they aren’t looking for fraud or waste”, but what do they claim they want to do with it?

My point was about shrinking and destroying government, which has been the conservative dream for decades.

Stripping it for parts and exploiting the spoils is a more cutting-edge innovation.

[waitingtoconnect]

They told us long ago that this was their plan. We're watching government being drowned in a bathtub.

That things no longer work could not possibly make them happier.

What was their plan for illegally accessing the IRS data? How are they going to find fraud or waste in there? I get the answer is “they aren’t looking for fraud or waste”, but what do they claim they want to do with it?

Also - how quickly do we think that damaging tax info will be leaked on their enemies? 30 minutes?

He won’t say a word in public. But if they don’t vote trumps way in Congress they are toast.

And it doesn’t need to be anything illegal they’ve done. A pending audit can be spun to mean anything. Assets can be frozen on vague suspicion. And then they can move to families and political donors of the politican and squeeze them.

[Smoove_B]

I feel like this entire thing is a scam happening out in the open and no one is doing anything about it:

A team from Elon Musk’s SpaceX is visiting the Air Traffic Control Command Center in Virginia Monday to help overhaul the system in the wake of last month’s deadly air disaster in Washington, DC, US Secretary of Transportation Sean Duffy announced. The news comes after CNN reported that the Federal Aviation Administration fired hundreds of probationary employees who maintain critical air traffic control infrastructure.

Step 1 - get rid of federal employees, experience failures and inefficiencies
Step 2 - send in private business to "evaluate' jobs
Step 3- determine private business can run it better

I feel like if Musk had a private company that sold vitamins, ivermectin or lipstick I have no doubts he'd be sending those workers into the FDA today as well.

[Holman]

My pet theory with Elon is that he's still an insecure high school kid who prefers to get lost in a game of D&D than face the real world. He just happens to be one who got lucky enough to survive the early internet and became insanely rich because of it. You can see it in the way he dabbles in various tech fields - a little bit of space, a little bit of sci-fi supercar, and so on. He's playing a real-life game of "Let's be big and powerful" because it makes him feel good and 'impresses' people. And now he's getting to play it in the biggest, most impressive way that he could ever imagine.

I've seen it pointed out that Musk actually believes that we are likely living in a simulation.

I know that there are interesting questions raised by the simulation hypothesis, but to include it in your ethical (or unethical) calculus is an entirely different matter. It seems like the *perfect* ideology for a tech-obsessed clinical narcissist who already believes that he is the most important person in the world.

When other people (from your children to all the foreigners affected by cuts to food/medical/survial aid programs) barely exist for you at all, how comforting must it be to assume that they are just NPCs in a grand virtual simulation? And even if they are somehow just as real as you, their suffering doesn't "really" matter because nothing is real.

[Blackhawk]

It's like the argument against free will. Even if it's an illusion, I choose to keep living as if it's not.

[msduncan]

Doctor has it because SSN has become a national ID.

That's...insane. No wonder ID theft is so prevalent. @Icebear: Everyone having your SSN is more likely to result in fraud, not less.

I don't know exactly how it works in Canada, but I know none of the organizations mentioned so far have my SIN (Canada's SSN).

The SSN was never intended to be a national ID. It was created in the 30s for social security benefits.

IIRC the history correctly, there was a push for a national ID in the 50s-60s but fear about the government "tracking" its citizens killed it. So the SSN, which was never intended to be used for a national ID, became the de facto national ID. And it's horrible at it because it was never designed to be an ID.

Fun fact. Social Security cards used to be metal. I know a couple friends who found them metal detecting.

Fun but not exactly a fact.

There was a time when people would have a metal card made, but they have never been issued/created that way officially.

So, no, SS cards didn’t used to be metal. But your friends did find some.

Interesting. My google searches and an inquiry to ChatGPT says that in the 1930s there were some metal cards made and distributed by the US government. Now I'm having to dig(research) some more.

[RunningMn9]

I don’t think anyone answered the question. What is the stated goal for pilfering all of our tax data? Like, what’s the lie that’s covering up why they actually want it?

[RunningMn9]

I feel like this entire thing is a scam happening out in the open and no one is doing anything about it

I don’t think it’s a scam per se. I think that he has a fundamental belief that “intelligence” is more important than domain knowledge.

The idea that his SpaceX team knows literally nothing about air traffic control in general, or the air traffic control systems we employ (in particular) doesn’t even occur to him.

What I do isn’t critical to the nation’s skies being safe, but there are less than 10 people on this planet that know what I know, about what I do. This isn’t to say that you couldn’t bring in a team to figure it out someday. But the cost of doing that is prohibitive in terms of time and money and most importantly, in terms of safety.

At least while they are replacing me, they are only putting soldier lives at risk - and not the entire flying public.