Apple is fucking insane!

[Punisher]

So, this started last week.
I got a notice from PayPal about a $42ish charge from Apple. Now, I've been getting the fake "we've charged X dollars if you want to dispute it please call" emails for a while now and figured it was more of the same but this looked more legit so I opened my PayPal app directly and confirmed it was real.
For the record.. I have not given my password to anyone and I have 2FA enabled for my Apple account.
I contact Apple support and explain everything and they walk me through requesting a refund which is fine. They tell me the purchases were made on an iPhone 8. I let them know that I have NEVER owned an iPhone.
They can't explain:
1. How the person got past their 2FA. I never received a prompt on my iPad because it was off. ( I generally only use it for when we go out to watch movies while we eat or something) and I never got a text on my Android phone which is my backup. I also never got the notice anywhere including my email that I normally get with a new login alert.

2. Why this person's device wasn't even showing up in my device list on my Apple account.

Fast forward to today.
I go and pickup a new IPad Pro to test the 3D scanning ability and see how it works with Inzoi, which is a new Sims like game.
I set it up and go to download the apps I need and find out that my account is disabled. OK, I figure that this is because of what happened and contact them via chat on the new iPad.
They do all the verification they need and reactivate my account..
Now comes the insane part.
I ask to check the status of my refunds. They lookup my account and say that they are on hold because there are still 2 pending transactions. ( the person bought 4 packs of Pokémon cards which went through and then 2 more which didn't). I explain that these are fraudulent and to just cancel them.
He says that he can't and that the ONLY way to proceed is for me to pay for him.
I then flipped out.
Not only was my account used by bypassing their own security, but they now want me to pay for the items that didn't go through (most likely because the 1st transaction cleared out my bank account at the time) and give this person even more goods. He INSISTED that this was the ONLY way to move forward and that I could just request a new refund for those.
I immediately asked for a supervisor and was told fine, but the supervisor would just tell me the same thing.
I get a callback only a couple minutes later (which WAS impressive) and the supervisor DOES tell me the same thing. I then explain to him that this sounds like ransomware on their part. Pay up or lose your refund. I let him know that not only am I returning the new iPad, but I'm canceling my subscriptions tied to my Apple account (Apple TV, icloud, and Shonen Jump but I can just pay them direct) I work through that process with him and remove my payment methods.
He then says that there IS a way (which i suspected) to remove tjise 2 charges but they normally don't offer that regardless if they are fraud. I can understand this if it's a child account that accidentally makes a purchase but not fraud. It doesn't make sense to support fraud by rewarding the scammed. He says, well the charges weren't finished so they didn't get the items and I gave to explain to him that yes, but once I PAY for them, the items will go through. He then agrees that's true but proceeds to remove them
I'm gonna just keep my old iPad but other than that, I'm done with Apple because they are fucking insane.

[Jaymann]

This kind of crap is why I will never, ever attach any payment information to my iphone, no matter how many times they tell me, "Let's finish setting up your phone." Let's not.

[hitbyambulance]

they are crazy about their 2FA system - i believe you actually can't set up an iCloud account now without having a phone number attached. (i just use my Apple products without iCloud, at this point. you do lose some functionality without it)

[Punisher]

they are crazy about their 2FA system - i believe you actually can't set up an iCloud account now without having a phone number attached. (i just use my Apple products without iCloud, at this point. you do lose some functionality without it)

Even if they weren't, I set this up in the before times and setup 2FA. Even in the now times, I remember enough to know it's important.
First, it pings your registered Apple device which is my old iPad. I can choose to use my secondary device which is a text to my phone number.
This reminds me. He also mentioned that there is stronger security available.
First he mentioned a security key but they don't use Google authenticator, they use a physical key which is not worth it.
He then mentioned that I could generate a recovery key and I had to educate him that it was actually less secure. It's designed as a last ditch effort to verify your account if you don't have your password, Apple device, or any other form of 2FA. I had to let him know that if someone somehow got a hold of that, they could bypass ALL the security.

[LordMortis]

This kind of crap is why I will never, ever attach any payment information to my iphone, no matter how many times they tell me, "Let's finish setting up your phone." Let's not.

That's my fear, anyway. No ApplePay, no GooglePay, no marketplaces associated with social media, nothing; and PayPal acts as a firewall between my credit card and anyone who wants to set up an account to make autopaying "easier." That's why all of the apple free trials never get used by me. Of course, RM9 will remind me that I am the oldest man he's ever met. I also note, that I wanted to see if GoogleFi would work for my parents. We get about 20 minutes into setting up a trial account before the last step, setting up a payment method and autorenewal, which was mandatory for the free trial test of availability but not spelled out anywhere before hand. To get the account removed, so billing couldn't be sent to their address, there was no option on the web, and it took 3 hours of webchats and calls to get their account deactivated.

[Daehawk]

Fuck Apple. Bought my wife a iPod and the battery died within a year.

Bought myself a Airport wireless router years ago when my normal one died. It said on the box it worked on PCs. I couldn't get it working, Called support and the guy literally told me to get it working Id need to buy an iPhone. I ended up selling it and losing some money.

Fuck Apple

[Punisher]

Update.
My initial refund request was denied with no info other than it doesn't meet the criteria.
I already did the appeal but I suspect that this is gonna require another supervisor call. Ugh..
Already reset the new iPad and returning it tomorrow.

[Punisher]

OK.
Appeal failed and they are refusing to refund me .
They are also refusing to provide me with any details as to why they are denying the refund other than a genereric "it doesn't meet our criteria"
Tried going through support again and that was a disaster. Level 1 couldn't help but sent me to a surpvisoer and this guy sounds like he too is reading from a script. He can't tell me anything and refuses to escalate the issue to his manager. He kept saying that he cant transfer me and I had to keep saying that I understand and that I don't want him to. I just want him to escalate it internally and have his manger get back to me. He point blank said no, he would not escalate it any further.
Apple fucking sucks and I am never buying their shit again.
Not sure what else I can do. Gonna try Paypal again but they said I had to wait until Sept for this.
also gonna file a complaint against then with BBB.

Does anyone know any news organizations I can go to? besides my issue this is obviously a security breach on their end as well.

[Rumpy]

That's messed up. When in doubt, blame the customer, which seems to be the case here. I miss the days when companies used to care. It's too bad you haven't been able to escalate and get someone to investigate.

I'm going to take a guess and say that they might have mixed up accounts in their system, which suggests a deeper issue at heart. But to not even be able to get them to investigate the issue and outright reject your need for help feels very wrong. And Apple devices are expensive enough as is. I'd expect them to have better customer service.

[Punisher]

That's messed up. When in doubt, blame the customer, which seems to be the case here. I miss the days when companies used to care. It's too bad you haven't been able to escalate and get someone to investigate.

I'm going to take a guess and say that they might have mixed up accounts in their system, which suggests a deeper issue at heart. But to not even be able to get them to investigate the issue and outright reject your need for help feels very wrong. And Apple devices are expensive enough as is. I'd expect them to have better customer service.

Thats literally what I told this last guy!

It's part of the reason I want to report this to the news. Not just piss poor customer service, but also for what appears to be a massive security breach.
You should not be able to bypass 2FA. You should not be able to bypass the security of the device list on Apples servers.
Someone did something crazy as hell.

[Zarathud]

This is why there was a federal consumer protection agency.

[Rumpy]

That's messed up. When in doubt, blame the customer, which seems to be the case here. I miss the days when companies used to care. It's too bad you haven't been able to escalate and get someone to investigate.

I'm going to take a guess and say that they might have mixed up accounts in their system, which suggests a deeper issue at heart. But to not even be able to get them to investigate the issue and outright reject your need for help feels very wrong. And Apple devices are expensive enough as is. I'd expect them to have better customer service.

Thats literally what I told this last guy!

It's part of the reason I want to report this to the news. Not just piss poor customer service, but also for what appears to be a massive security breach.
You should not be able to bypass 2FA. You should not be able to bypass the security of the device list on Apples servers.
Someone did something crazy as hell.

Or someone at the Apple store possibly messed up and put the purchase on your account. If you have a common enough name, I could possibly see that happening. Regardless, it seems like a rather large lapse in judgment if that occurred.

In Canada, we have a show called Marketplace, and they'll sometimes go undercover and do some investigations on a customer's behalf and get answers, but I don't know how much that would help you.

[Punisher]

That's messed up. When in doubt, blame the customer, which seems to be the case here. I miss the days when companies used to care. It's too bad you haven't been able to escalate and get someone to investigate.

I'm going to take a guess and say that they might have mixed up accounts in their system, which suggests a deeper issue at heart. But to not even be able to get them to investigate the issue and outright reject your need for help feels very wrong. And Apple devices are expensive enough as is. I'd expect them to have better customer service.

Thats literally what I told this last guy!

It's part of the reason I want to report this to the news. Not just piss poor customer service, but also for what appears to be a massive security breach.
You should not be able to bypass 2FA. You should not be able to bypass the security of the device list on Apples servers.
Someone did something crazy as hell.

Or someone at the Apple store possibly messed up and put the purchase on your account. If you have a common enough name, I could possibly see that happening. Regardless, it seems like a rather large lapse in judgment if that occurred.

In Canada, we have a show called Marketplace, and they'll sometimes go undercover and do some investigations on a customer's behalf and get answers, but I don't know how much that would help you.

The rep was able to see the purchases were made directly on an iPhone 8.

[Rumpy]

Yeah, that one is hard to understand. I still think it might have something to do with a weird account mixup on Apple's end, especially if it shows no iPhone under your devices. But the fact that they would rather help a scammer than a customer is garbage.

Apple has never been very fortright with security breaches. I've had weird things going on with my Account, simply due to its age and it having been involved in past breaches, and I've only ever had an Apple Intel Macbook as an Apple device. Even so, I will sometimes still use the account on my PC to access iTunes, but I've noticed that it randomly likes to log me out or even lock me out, even while the PC I use has been authorized. And it's quite random. I've had it not happen for more than a year, then sometimes it happens monthly or even the same day when I've already logged in not too long ago. There's no rhyme or reason, and it's annoying to say the least. The only thing I can think of is that due to past breaches, passwords are tried, especially in the case of locking the account down once too many incorrect attempts are made, which then makes me go through the process of unlocking. And this happens frequently enough.

[LawBeefaroni]

OK.
Appeal failed and they are refusing to refund me .
They are also refusing to provide me with any details as to why they are denying the refund other than a genereric "it doesn't meet our criteria"
Tried going through support again and that was a disaster. Level 1 couldn't help but sent me to a surpvisoer and this guy sounds like he too is reading from a script. He can't tell me anything and refuses to escalate the issue to his manager. He kept saying that he cant transfer me and I had to keep saying that I understand and that I don't want him to. I just want him to escalate it internally and have his manger get back to me. He point blank said no, he would not escalate it any further.
Apple fucking sucks and I am never buying their shit again.
Not sure what else I can do. Gonna try Paypal again but they said I had to wait until Sept for this.
also gonna file a complaint against then with BBB.

Does anyone know any news organizations I can go to? besides my issue this is obviously a security breach on their end as well.

Go to the "Genius Bar". Eliminate the anonymity of a phone call.

[EvilHomer3k]

OK.
Appeal failed and they are refusing to refund me .
They are also refusing to provide me with any details as to why they are denying the refund other than a genereric "it doesn't meet our criteria"
Tried going through support again and that was a disaster. Level 1 couldn't help but sent me to a surpvisoer and this guy sounds like he too is reading from a script. He can't tell me anything and refuses to escalate the issue to his manager. He kept saying that he cant transfer me and I had to keep saying that I understand and that I don't want him to. I just want him to escalate it internally and have his manger get back to me. He point blank said no, he would not escalate it any further.
Apple fucking sucks and I am never buying their shit again.
Not sure what else I can do. Gonna try Paypal again but they said I had to wait until Sept for this.
also gonna file a complaint against then with BBB.

Does anyone know any news organizations I can go to? besides my issue this is obviously a security breach on their end as well.

Go to the "Genius Bar". Eliminate the anonymity of a phone call.

That only works if you live close to one. The nearest one to me (and literally the only one in Iowa) is over 2 hours drive from me. Though I don't know where Punisher lives.

[LawBeefaroni]

[quote=Punisher post_id=3093176 time=1743540231
Go to the "Genius Bar". Eliminate the anonymity of a phone call.

That only works if you live close to one. The nearest one to me (and literally the only one in Iowa) is over 2 hours drive from me. Though I don't know where Punisher lives.

That's probably in your favor. Show up after a 2 hour drive, hopped up on Mountain Dew Code Red, with a rubber banded folio of loose sheets of printouts showing various unauthorized charges....

The be-scarved geniuses will be recoiling in horror while button mashing to reverse the charges.

[Punisher]

OK.
Appeal failed and they are refusing to refund me .
They are also refusing to provide me with any details as to why they are denying the refund other than a genereric "it doesn't meet our criteria"
Tried going through support again and that was a disaster. Level 1 couldn't help but sent me to a surpvisoer and this guy sounds like he too is reading from a script. He can't tell me anything and refuses to escalate the issue to his manager. He kept saying that he cant transfer me and I had to keep saying that I understand and that I don't want him to. I just want him to escalate it internally and have his manger get back to me. He point blank said no, he would not escalate it any further.
Apple fucking sucks and I am never buying their shit again.
Not sure what else I can do. Gonna try Paypal again but they said I had to wait until Sept for this.
also gonna file a complaint against then with BBB.

Does anyone know any news organizations I can go to? besides my issue this is obviously a security breach on their end as well.

Go to the "Genius Bar". Eliminate the anonymity of a phone call.

That only works if you live close to one. The nearest one to me (and literally the only one in Iowa) is over 2 hours drive from me. Though I don't know where Punisher lives.

I live about 15 minutes from at least 1 Apple store. Maybe even 2 or 3. I just find it unlikely that they could do anything at the store level. However, I'm tempted to go to their stores and politely warn all the customers of what could happen.
Maybe a 1 man protest in a wheelchair will get some coverage.

[Smoove_B]

I live about 15 minutes from at least 1 Apple store. Maybe even 2 or 3. I just find it unlikely that they could do anything at the store level. However, I'm tempted to go to their stores and politely warn all the customers of what could happen.
Maybe a 1 man protest in a wheelchair will get some coverage.

Think of it another way - ask they to help you figure out why your iPad is registered as an iPhone8.

[stimpy]

Not sure how Apple would respond to a BBB report, but I recently opened a case with the BBB after months of dealing with a company to try and get a refund on a ring I bought.
Exactly 1 day after them receiving notification from BBB about the complaint, they issued my refund.

Again, not sure that a behemoth such as Apple gives a rats ass, but worth a try.

[Rumpy]

I live about 15 minutes from at least 1 Apple store. Maybe even 2 or 3. I just find it unlikely that they could do anything at the store level. However, I'm tempted to go to their stores and politely warn all the customers of what could happen.
Maybe a 1 man protest in a wheelchair will get some coverage.

Think of it another way - ask they to help you figure out why your iPad is registered as an iPhone8.

That's what I was thinking as well. At least this way you'd get a real interaction and they'd likely be more able to spot an issue that they can flag for investigation. Dismissing you out of hand would not be in their favor.

At least you have Apple stores nearby, but in my area we only have licensed look-alike stores.

[Punisher]

Not sure how Apple would respond to a BBB report, but I recently opened a case with the BBB after months of dealing with a company to try and get a refund on a ring I bought.
Exactly 1 day after them receiving notification from BBB about the complaint, they issued my refund.

Again, not sure that a behemoth such as Apple gives a rats ass, but worth a try.

Already did this. As soon as the said final decision.
Apparently it seems like their decisions are all done via AI or something.
Someone on an Apple forum pointed me to am Apple page explaining this but it also had a separate email which I've sent to amd om waiting on a response from them.

[Drazzil]

So, this started last week.
I got a notice from PayPal about a $42ish charge from Apple. Now, I've been getting the fake "we've charged X dollars if you want to dispute it please call" emails for a while now and figured it was more of the same but this looked more legit so I opened my PayPal app directly and confirmed it was real.
For the record.. I have not given my password to anyone and I have 2FA enabled for my Apple account.
I contact Apple support and explain everything and they walk me through requesting a refund which is fine. They tell me the purchases were made on an iPhone 8. I let them know that I have NEVER owned an iPhone.
They can't explain:
1. How the person got past their 2FA. I never received a prompt on my iPad because it was off. ( I generally only use it for when we go out to watch movies while we eat or something) and I never got a text on my Android phone which is my backup. I also never got the notice anywhere including my email that I normally get with a new login alert.

2. Why this person's device wasn't even showing up in my device list on my Apple account.

Fast forward to today.
I go and pickup a new IPad Pro to test the 3D scanning ability and see how it works with Inzoi, which is a new Sims like game.
I set it up and go to download the apps I need and find out that my account is disabled. OK, I figure that this is because of what happened and contact them via chat on the new iPad.
They do all the verification they need and reactivate my account..
Now comes the insane part.
I ask to check the status of my refunds. They lookup my account and say that they are on hold because there are still 2 pending transactions. ( the person bought 4 packs of Pokémon cards which went through and then 2 more which didn't). I explain that these are fraudulent and to just cancel them.
He says that he can't and that the ONLY way to proceed is for me to pay for him.
I then flipped out.
Not only was my account used by bypassing their own security, but they now want me to pay for the items that didn't go through (most likely because the 1st transaction cleared out my bank account at the time) and give this person even more goods. He INSISTED that this was the ONLY way to move forward and that I could just request a new refund for those.
I immediately asked for a supervisor and was told fine, but the supervisor would just tell me the same thing.
I get a callback only a couple minutes later (which WAS impressive) and the supervisor DOES tell me the same thing. I then explain to him that this sounds like ransomware on their part. Pay up or lose your refund. I let him know that not only am I returning the new iPad, but I'm canceling my subscriptions tied to my Apple account (Apple TV, icloud, and Shonen Jump but I can just pay them direct) I work through that process with him and remove my payment methods.
He then says that there IS a way (which i suspected) to remove tjise 2 charges but they normally don't offer that regardless if they are fraud. I can understand this if it's a child account that accidentally makes a purchase but not fraud. It doesn't make sense to support fraud by rewarding the scammed. He says, well the charges weren't finished so they didn't get the items and I gave to explain to him that yes, but once I PAY for them, the items will go through. He then agrees that's true but proceeds to remove them
I'm gonna just keep my old iPad but other than that, I'm done with Apple because they are fucking insane.

That's Spectrum or Wal Mart level fuckery right there.

[Drazzil]

So, this started last week.
I got a notice from PayPal about a $42ish charge from Apple. Now, I've been getting the fake "we've charged X dollars if you want to dispute it please call" emails for a while now and figured it was more of the same but this looked more legit so I opened my PayPal app directly and confirmed it was real.
For the record.. I have not given my password to anyone and I have 2FA enabled for my Apple account.
I contact Apple support and explain everything and they walk me through requesting a refund which is fine. They tell me the purchases were made on an iPhone 8. I let them know that I have NEVER owned an iPhone.
They can't explain:
1. How the person got past their 2FA. I never received a prompt on my iPad because it was off. ( I generally only use it for when we go out to watch movies while we eat or something) and I never got a text on my Android phone which is my backup. I also never got the notice anywhere including my email that I normally get with a new login alert.

2. Why this person's device wasn't even showing up in my device list on my Apple account.

Fast forward to today.
I go and pickup a new IPad Pro to test the 3D scanning ability and see how it works with Inzoi, which is a new Sims like game.
I set it up and go to download the apps I need and find out that my account is disabled. OK, I figure that this is because of what happened and contact them via chat on the new iPad.
They do all the verification they need and reactivate my account..
Now comes the insane part.
I ask to check the status of my refunds. They lookup my account and say that they are on hold because there are still 2 pending transactions. ( the person bought 4 packs of Pokémon cards which went through and then 2 more which didn't). I explain that these are fraudulent and to just cancel them.
He says that he can't and that the ONLY way to proceed is for me to pay for him.
I then flipped out.
Not only was my account used by bypassing their own security, but they now want me to pay for the items that didn't go through (most likely because the 1st transaction cleared out my bank account at the time) and give this person even more goods. He INSISTED that this was the ONLY way to move forward and that I could just request a new refund for those.
I immediately asked for a supervisor and was told fine, but the supervisor would just tell me the same thing.
I get a callback only a couple minutes later (which WAS impressive) and the supervisor DOES tell me the same thing. I then explain to him that this sounds like ransomware on their part. Pay up or lose your refund. I let him know that not only am I returning the new iPad, but I'm canceling my subscriptions tied to my Apple account (Apple TV, icloud, and Shonen Jump but I can just pay them direct) I work through that process with him and remove my payment methods.
He then says that there IS a way (which i suspected) to remove tjise 2 charges but they normally don't offer that regardless if they are fraud. I can understand this if it's a child account that accidentally makes a purchase but not fraud. It doesn't make sense to support fraud by rewarding the scammed. He says, well the charges weren't finished so they didn't get the items and I gave to explain to him that yes, but once I PAY for them, the items will go through. He then agrees that's true but proceeds to remove them
I'm gonna just keep my old iPad but other than that, I'm done with Apple because they are fucking insane.

That's Spectrum or Wal Mart level fuckery right there.

[Punisher]

I live about 15 minutes from at least 1 Apple store. Maybe even 2 or 3. I just find it unlikely that they could do anything at the store level. However, I'm tempted to go to their stores and politely warn all the customers of what could happen.
Maybe a 1 man protest in a wheelchair will get some coverage.

Think of it another way - ask they to help you figure out why your iPad is registered as an iPhone8.

That's what I was thinking as well. At least this way you'd get a real interaction and they'd likely be more able to spot an issue that they can flag for investigation. Dismissing you out of hand would not be in their favor.

At least you have Apple stores nearby, but in my area we only have licensed look-alike stores.

It's not really that my iPad is registering as an iPhone.
My iPad shows up in my device list.
Someone else used an iPhone 8 to make the purchase without it ever showing up inmy device list. Even the rep I spoke to diddle ot in my account at all.

[Punisher]

I live about 15 minutes from at least 1 Apple store. Maybe even 2 or 3. I just find it unlikely that they could do anything at the store level. However, I'm tempted to go to their stores and politely warn all the customers of what could happen.
Maybe a 1 man protest in a wheelchair will get some coverage.

Think of it another way - ask they to help you figure out why your iPad is registered as an iPhone8.

That's what I was thinking as well. At least this way you'd get a real interaction and they'd likely be more able to spot an issue that they can flag for investigation. Dismissing you out of hand would not be in their favor.

At least you have Apple stores nearby, but in my area we only have licensed look-alike stores.

It's not really that my iPad is registering as an iPhone.
My iPad shows up in my device list.
Someone else used an iPhone 8 to make the purchase without it ever showing up inmy device list. Even the rep I spoke to diddle ot in my account at all.

[Smoove_B]

Right, but have someone explain to you how that happened at the Genius bar. In other words, you're there playing stupid because tech support told you someone charged money to your account and all you own is an iPad but they told you it was an iPhone 8 that made the charge. So clearly your iPad must be registered as an iPhone, right?

[Rumpy]

I live about 15 minutes from at least 1 Apple store. Maybe even 2 or 3. I just find it unlikely that they could do anything at the store level. However, I'm tempted to go to their stores and politely warn all the customers of what could happen.
Maybe a 1 man protest in a wheelchair will get some coverage.

Think of it another way - ask they to help you figure out why your iPad is registered as an iPhone8.

That's what I was thinking as well. At least this way you'd get a real interaction and they'd likely be more able to spot an issue that they can flag for investigation. Dismissing you out of hand would not be in their favor.

At least you have Apple stores nearby, but in my area we only have licensed look-alike stores.

It's not really that my iPad is registering as an iPhone.
My iPad shows up in my device list.
Someone else used an iPhone 8 to make the purchase without it ever showing up inmy device list. Even the rep I spoke to diddle ot in my account at all.

Yeah, I'm not the one that said that. I'm saying that the Apple Store might have an explanation for why an iPhone 8 made a purchase that is not seen on your device list.

[Punisher]

OK.
Thanks both of you. I think I understand now.
It's pretty easy for me to play stupid so that's a pl;us.
I'll have to see if I can make it by this weekend just to see what they say.
Maybe I'll even talk a bit loud so other customers hear about the possible security breach..

[Unagi]

OK.
Thanks both of you. I think I understand now.
It's pretty easy for me to play stupid so that's a pl;us.
I'll have to see if I can make it by this weekend just to see what they say.
Maybe I'll even talk a bit loud so other customers hear about the possible security breach..

If you do the 'talk loud' thing, I don't think you will get as much help as without.

The poor guy/girl that works there doesn't really give a shit about Apple's longterm public image on security - so really all you are doing is making it super awkward for them as a human because they have someone clearly trying to make a scene with them. You think you are doing this to Apple, but you would just be doing it to the human in a position to help you, not Apple.

Be vulnerable. Be their 'dad'.