Immigration Policy

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Holman
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Holman »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 11:28 am Trump admin accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian mega-prison and says it can’t get him back
The Trump administration accidentally sent a Salvadorian immigrant to a notorious Salvadorian prison and says it can’t do anything to get him back.

That’s even though the man had protected immigration status in the U.S., specifically barring him from being sent back to that country for fear of persecution.

On Monday, in a filing in Maryland federal court, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) admitted to mistakenly sending Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia to El Salvador’s notoriously brutal CECOT prison.
...
The Trump administration argues that because the man is no longer in U.S. custody, a U.S. court lacks jurisdiction to issue orders regarding his detention and release.
...
The administration has acknowledged that “many” of the over 200 Venezuelans sent to El Salvador did not have a prior criminal record.
This is disgusting.

And, yes, the cruelty is the point. It's less "we can't help him" than "no one will help when we do it to you."
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Re: Immigration Policy

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Judge rules US must return man deported to El Salvador in 'error'
Judge Xinis called Mr Garcia's deportation "an illegal act" when issuing her order on Friday. She said he must be returned by Monday.
...
In a post on X, White House deputy chief of staff Stephen Miller referred to Judge Xinis as a "Marxist", who "now thinks she's president of El Salvador".

White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said: "We suggest the Judge contact President [Nayib] Bukele because we are unaware of the judge having jurisdiction or authority over the country of El Salvador."
...
Mr Garcia's lawyer said the claims by the Trump administration that his client could not be returned were "outrageous".

"They're coming before this court and saying, 'We've tried nothing and we're all out of options,'" Mr Sandoval-Moshenberg told Judge Xinis.
...
The government lawyer conceded that Mr Garcia "should not have been removed", according to CBS News, the BBC's US partner.

"There is no warrant for his arrest. There is no statement of probable cause," Judge Xinis said. "What is the actual document that got this process started?"

Mr Reuveni said he did "not have that order. It is not on the record".

The justice department lawyer noted that, in his view, "the government made a choice here to produce no evidence", adding that this "absence of evidence speaks for itself".
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Blackhawk »

Nothing like responding to a court order with, "You want it done, Your Honor? You do it."





And getting away with it.
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Re: Immigration Policy

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This incident alone would put any normal presidency in jeopardy. Yet now it is just a minor aside in the long list of abuses and anti-constitutional actions.
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Smoove_B »

Exactly. The more actions like this that go unanswered -and- daily life just keeps humming along? It's tacit approval.

Remember how two weeks ago there was a DoD scandal about the use of Signal? That's all been forgotten because of "Liberation" day - along with the random people that have disappeared into ICE or are now in a foreign country and will likely never be heard of again.

The trick all along has been to just keep doing outrageous things because the average person (and certainly the legal system) just cannot keep up.
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Holman
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Holman »

Smoove_B wrote: Sat Apr 05, 2025 10:43 am Exactly. The more actions like this that go unanswered -and- daily life just keeps humming along? It's tacit approval.

Remember how two weeks ago there was a DoD scandal about the use of Signal? That's all been forgotten because of "Liberation" day - along with the random people that have disappeared into ICE or are now in a foreign country and will likely never be heard of again.

The trick all along has been to just keep doing outrageous things because the average person (and certainly the legal system) just cannot keep up.
They learned this trick during the first Trump administration. It's just that now what they're doing and what we're forgetting is so much worse.
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LordMortis
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by LordMortis »

The same week he trashes the US economy he does this quietly

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/tr ... r-AA1CiBV3
Donald Trump's gold immigration cards are becoming a reality.

On Thursday, April 3, the president posed with the first "Trump Card" — a $5 million green card alternative that would allow wealthy immigrants to be admitted to the United States — while speaking to reporters on Air Force One. He projected that such cards, decorated with his own image, will be available in "less than two weeks, probably."

"Five million. For five million dollars, this could be yours," Trump said, holding the card up for all to see.

"You know what that card is?" he continued, waiting for reporters to offer their guesses. "It's the gold card. The Trump card, gold card."
So when did Congress approve this and how does this benefit the nation?
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Re: Immigration Policy

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LordMortis wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 10:55 am The same week he trashes the US economy he does this quietly

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/tr ... r-AA1CiBV3
Donald Trump's gold immigration cards are becoming a reality.

On Thursday, April 3, the president posed with the first "Trump Card" — a $5 million green card alternative that would allow wealthy immigrants to be admitted to the United States — while speaking to reporters on Air Force One. He projected that such cards, decorated with his own image, will be available in "less than two weeks, probably."

"Five million. For five million dollars, this could be yours," Trump said, holding the card up for all to see.

"You know what that card is?" he continued, waiting for reporters to offer their guesses. "It's the gold card. The Trump card, gold card."
So when did Congress approve this and how does this benefit the nation?
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Re: Immigration Policy

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$iljanus wrote: Sun Apr 06, 2025 5:57 pm Something in the Bible about graven images, maybe some Mark of the Beast vibes… :think:
I'm sure that Trump has dreamed of having his face on money his whole life. Now that cash is less important, he has found a way to get himself on a five million dollar bill.
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Re: Immigration Policy

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Trump administration asks Supreme Court to intervene in case of Maryland man deported to El Salvador
he Trump administration asked the Supreme Court on Monday to intervene in an ongoing legal battle over a Maryland man who was mistakenly arrested and removed to El Salvador last month.

The Justice Department's request for emergency relief from the high court comes as it faces a court-ordered 11:59 p.m. deadline to return the man, Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, to the U.S.
...
e Trump administration appealed the district court's decision to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit and asked it to swiftly put Xinis' order requiring Abrego Garcia to be returned to the U.S. on hold.

Sauer then sought emergency relief from the Supreme Court. His request for the high court to block Xinis' decision came just before the 4th Circuit rejected the administration's request to step into the dispute.

The solicitor general, who was confirmed to the role last week, called the district court's decision "unprecedented and indefensible," and claimed the the lower courts are trying to "seize control over foreign relations, treat the Executive Branch as a subordinate diplomat, and demand that the United States let a member of a foreign terrorist organization into America tonight."
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Alefroth »

How I'd love to see SCOTUS smack him down hard. I feel like maybe this case has the best shot at that.
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Re: Immigration Policy

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Trump administration deports gay makeup artist to prison in El Salvador
The Trump administration has released very little information about the Venezuelan migrants sent to prison in El Salvador. But internal government documents obtained by 60 Minutes and public records indicate that an overwhelming majority have no apparent criminal convictions or even criminal charges.

The Trump administration says just because the migrants don't have criminal records does not mean they are not in a gang and are not dangerous. Border czar Tom Homan has said that immigration agents spent hours conducting rigorous checks on each of the men to confirm they are members of Tren de Aragua.

But, after cross-referencing the internal documents with domestic and international court filings, news reports and arrest records, 60 Minutes could not find criminal records for 75% of the Venezuelans now sitting in prison in El Salvador.

The analysis did show that at least 22% of the men on the list do have criminal records in the U.S. or abroad. Most of the offenses are non-violent, such as theft, shoplifting and trespassing. About a dozen are accused of more serious crimes, including murder, rape, assault and kidnapping.

For 3% of those deported, it is unclear whether a criminal record exists.
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Re: Immigration Policy

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Alefroth wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 1:22 pm How I'd love to see SCOTUS smack him down hard. I feel like maybe this case has the best shot at that.
Even if they do, I imagine this would be one of those "They made their ruling - now let them enforce it" situations. The administration will do whatever it takes to avoid giving those people the opportunity to come back and spill the beans on the conditions at the gulag.
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Re: Immigration Policy

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Isgrimnur wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 1:14 pm Trump administration asks Supreme Court to intervene in case of Maryland man deported to El Salvador
he Trump administration asked the Supreme Court on Monday to intervene in an ongoing legal battle over a Maryland man who was mistakenly arrested and removed to El Salvador last month.

The Justice Department's request for emergency relief from the high court comes as it faces a court-ordered 11:59 p.m. deadline to return the man, Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, to the U.S.
...
e Trump administration appealed the district court's decision to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit and asked it to swiftly put Xinis' order requiring Abrego Garcia to be returned to the U.S. on hold.

Sauer then sought emergency relief from the Supreme Court. His request for the high court to block Xinis' decision came just before the 4th Circuit rejected the administration's request to step into the dispute.

The solicitor general, who was confirmed to the role last week, called the district court's decision "unprecedented and indefensible," and claimed the the lower courts are trying to "seize control over foreign relations, treat the Executive Branch as a subordinate diplomat, and demand that the United States let a member of a foreign terrorist organization into America tonight."
I hope they are able to get this guy released before he’s killed. And if he is it’s yet another thing this administration will get away with without any consequences. :grund:
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Re: Immigration Policy

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Roberts pauses the order to return.

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Re: Immigration Policy

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:hawk:
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Re: Immigration Policy

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FWIW, it's an administrative stay to give the Court the opportunity to review. From what I'm reading, we could still get an actual ruling this week.
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Alefroth »

Yep. Given what hangs in the balance it seems like they'd expedite it.
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Re: Immigration Policy

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Also, it's unlikely the order would have been followed anyway, so the pause is somewhat moot.
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Re: Immigration Policy

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What is the Trump administration actually arguing? That they have the right to disappear people without due process? That they don't have to listen to judges? Both?
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Alefroth »

I think they are arguing they don't have the jurisdiction to bring him back now. As if legal authority is now important.
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Re: Immigration Policy

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Alefroth wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 6:09 pm I think they are arguing they don't have the jurisdiction to bring him back now. As if legal authority is now important.
That's absurd. The "jurisdiction" is diplomacy.

"Hey El Salvador. You like the military support you're getting from us? We need that guy back. Thanks."

In any other administration this would be Boom, Done. Trump is simply pushing his own authoritarianism here.
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Re: Immigration Policy

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The Attorney General is doubling down and accusing the guy of being a terrorist. I think it just boils down to a Trumpian inability to own up to a mistake. They insist that they had the right to do what they did and that he deserved to be deported, facts and courts be damned.
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Re: Immigration Policy

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Max Peck wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 6:13 pm The Attorney General is doubling down and accusing the guy of being a terrorist. I think it just boils down to a Trumpian inability to own up to a mistake. They insist that they had the right to do what they did and that he deserved to be deported, facts and courts be damned.
Yeah. But those are just justifications. What they really are arguing is that they have the right to disappear people and that judges can't stop them.

(I don't think whether someone actually "deserves" to be deported even crosses their mind, except insofar as *everyone* they dislike deserves to be deported.)
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Re: Immigration Policy

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I'm trying to consider just how truly vile of a human being you would have to be to order a man snatched off the street, send him to rot in an El Salvadorian hellhole prison with no due process, have overwhelming evidence you fucked up and he's innocent, and yet somehow STILL be arguing that he should have to stay there because of the shit that you just entirely made up. All to avoid admitting that you made a mistake.

The mind truly boggles at how utterly horrible every one of these people really are.
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Re: Immigration Policy

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Skinypupy wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 6:51 pm I'm trying to consider just how truly vile of a human being you would have to be to order a man snatched off the street, send him to rot in an El Salvadorian hellhole prison with no due process, have overwhelming evidence you fucked up and he's innocent, and yet somehow STILL be arguing that he should have to stay there because of the shit that you just entirely made up. All to avoid admitting that you made a mistake.

The mind truly boggles at how utterly horrible every one of these people really are.
The cruelty is the point.

After all, if they let this innocent guy out of Hell, won't that just encourage [insert ideological opponent here]s by making them think *they* might get out of Hell?

This is the logic of mounting heads on pikes.
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Smoove_B »

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Apr 07, 2025 6:51 pm The mind truly boggles at how utterly horrible every one of these people really are.
Have you seen the social media posts from The White House and DHS? Beyond vile.
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Re: Immigration Policy

Post by Isgrimnur »

US supreme court allows deportations under 18th century law with limits
In 5-4 ruling, court laid down terms for invoking Alien Enemies Act, stating any challenges to law must take place in Texas
...
Any challenges to the wartime law, called the Alien Enemies Act, must take place in Texas, where the migrants were held, and not in Washington DC, the court said.

In a 5-4 ruling, the court granted the Trump administration’s request to lift a Washington DC-based judge’s order temporarily blocking the deportations.

However, the court did not immediately address whether the administration improperly utilized the act, writing in its order instead that such a determination must be made in Texas court: “The detainees are confined in Texas, so venue is improper in the District of Columbia.”
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Immigration Policy

Post by Zarathud »

Under that theory, they’re no longer detained in Texas. Terrible logic.
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