Call me strange...I like POTC more than Sid Meiers Pirates!

elric_sloan · Post by **elric_sloan** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:40 pm

Picked up Pirates! couple of days ago, and was really excited to try it out. Man, am I disappointed. Too catrtoony, lots of small mini-games that are way to repetitive and I am just not enioying it.

Pirates of the Caribbean on the other hand is great. Seems much deeper after you apply the Build 11 mod that you can get at Piratesahoy.net. This mod makes it like it was supposed to be...Sea Dogs II!

I am going to continue trying to get into Sid Meier's Pirates!, and hopefully I will.

bluefugue · Post by **bluefugue** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:57 pm

Loved the graphics for POTC, found the interface prohibitively awful though...

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:06 pm

Pirates! was never meant to be a "deep" game. It's just a simple bit of fun. I knew that from playing the original, but I can see how people who never played the original might have too high/incorrect expectations

RickinMich · Post by **RickinMich** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:18 pm

Elric.. I'm so glad you posted this. I've been wondering about a comparison of the two games for a long time now. With the (now v. 12) mod for PotC, it's an incredibly deep and good looking pirates game. Is SM's Pirates a lot more arcadish in both the battles and overall feel? I am sorely tempted to pick it up, but if it's just another Port Royale or Pirate Hunter, I think I'll pass. Anyone feeling like posting a relatively complete comparison? Rick

warning · Post by **warning** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:20 pm

Well yeah but does Pirates of the Caribbean feature ballroom dancing?

elric_sloan · Post by **elric_sloan** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:01 pm

I will post a better comparison later, I am at work right now....

Chesspieceface · Post by **Chesspieceface** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:05 pm

Definitely not another Port Royale. If you want this game described in terms of other games, it's almost like the nethack of pirate games, if that makes any sense.

Its simplistic in presentation and control but deep and rich in design and flavor. The quests and treasures are randomized each play and no two games play out the same.

I'll admit to some level of nostalgia factor, and I never did play POTC (which seems to now be out of print on PC) but Pirates! is a winner to me. Having played the crap out of the original and Gold editions over my lifetime I was really wondering if the $50 was gonna feel like a waste, but honestly once you move up to the higher diificulties its a beautiful and challenging game. Also, if you've ever experienced the Sid Meier factor it drips from the game. Simgolf can make me insane with obsession. Civ well... CIV.

Let's hear what's good about POTC ?

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:30 pm

Demosthenes pretty much sums up my feelings too as to why I like Pirates!

goldenember · Post by **goldenember** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:02 pm

Where can I get the Mod for Potc? I have had the game in my closet for a yr and I figure its about time I play it.

elric_sloan · Post by **elric_sloan** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:12 pm

Ok, this will be quick cause I am still at work, but here goes:

POTC (this is with build 11, from www.piratesahoy.net ), seems to be a much more gritty/realistic version of pirating.

My biggest gripe with SM:Ps is that everything seems so "scripted", when you are dueling I have seen the same "ending" on about 5-6 duels...the enemy captain falls into a fire and jumps overboard, or he is knocked into the water by a large cargo box on a rope. It looks cool the first time, but after seeing this "cut-scene" 5 times for five different fights, I am tired of it. It takes all the newness out of the duels.

In POTC you can walk around towns and see people bustling about, fight duels in the city, sneak in and talk to a smuggler, in SM:Ps you see the same tavern every time, the only difference is the color of hair on the barmaid and bartender.

In POTC (with build 11) you can choose how you want to pay your crew, either a wage or go the route of a privateer and share a percentage of the loot with them. You cant do this in SM:Ps.

In POTC you can go first person and help aim the cannons, not in SM:Ps, in POTC you can explore each island, go in dungeons to search for buried loot, not in SM:Ps.

Well, there is the short version, I will post more later.

godhugh · Post by **godhugh** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:18 pm

Hmm, I have an un-opened copy of PotC sitting at home. Maybe I should crack it open. I just heard so many horrible things about I never gave it a try, but if the mods make that much of a difference...

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:22 pm

I haven't played either one. I just stopped in to call you strange.

Dirt · Post by **Dirt** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:41 pm

I'd certainly like to know if the Mods make PotC a better game and in what way.

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:43 pm

elric_sloan wrote:Ok, this will be quick cause I am still at work, but here goes:

POTC (this is with build 11, from www.piratesahoy.net ), seems to be a much more gritty/realistic version of pirating.

My biggest gripe with SM:Ps is that everything seems so "scripted", when you are dueling I have seen the same "ending" on about 5-6 duels...the enemy captain falls into a fire and jumps overboard, or he is knocked into the water by a large cargo box on a rope. It looks cool the first time, but after seeing this "cut-scene" 5 times for five different fights, I am tired of it. It takes all the newness out of the duels.

In POTC you can walk around towns and see people bustling about, fight duels in the city, sneak in and talk to a smuggler, in SM:Ps you see the same tavern every time, the only difference is the color of hair on the barmaid and bartender.

In POTC (with build 11) you can choose how you want to pay your crew, either a wage or go the route of a privateer and share a percentage of the loot with them. You cant do this in SM:Ps.

In POTC you can go first person and help aim the cannons, not in SM:Ps, in POTC you can explore each island, go in dungeons to search for buried loot, not in SM:Ps.

Well, there is the short version, I will post more later.

And I completely understand that. If I wanted to play a more thought provoking pirates game I would give this a shot (I too had just heard horrible things about it so I decided to give it a pass), but Sid's game, to me, is more of a fun little diversion that doesn't require much thought or time. I think Pirates! succeeds very well at what it is, but unfortunately that's not what you want.

PS - I hope you don't take that the wrong way, I'm going to look for PotC now for when I'm in the mood for a SERIOUS pirate game. Right now Pirates! is a perfect break from when things get too intense in HL2 - that's always how I've viewed the game - a fun, diversion game to be played in short spurts

setaside · Post by **setaside** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:26 pm

Ditto Icebear.

I LOVE Pirates! for what it is ... but your mini-review of POTC has just caused me to go out and look for it. Thanks.

elric_sloan · Post by **elric_sloan** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:45 pm

Just make sure you get build 11 or 12 from pirates ahoy's website. The game isnt near as good without it.

The only problem I have with POTC now is the interface, which is still somewhat confusing.

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:54 pm

Funny... I think there's plenty variety in the dueling locales to make it not-so-repetitive. The fights in the tavern are always the same, but that's not such a big deal to me.

The great thing about SMP! is that the mini-games are, IMO, engaging and brief enough that boredom doesn't set in. I'm playing on the hardest difficulty and duels have always been a challenge. I have to keep my eyes open and respond to every move. Now that my age is starting to kick in, I have to be especially careful, especially if someone is using a Rapier. And after a relatively brief duel, its on to something else.

I've really come to enjoy the dancing. Sure, it seemed a chore and maddeningly difficult at first, but now I do pretty darn well, even at the hardest difficulty. There comes a point when you just know that certain dance moves lead into others, that you start to notice when you're in a corner of the dance floor and know you're going to have to back up, move right, whatever... it's a great little mini-game.

Playing on the hardest difficulty now, I do have some "deeper" thoughts on the game and some issues I have with it... but I still love it. Might write up those thoughts in another thread.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:19 pm

http://build12.piratesahoy.net/Build12%20Readme.htm

this is the link to the PotC build 12 readme, as to what features it adds.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:23 pm

Ack. As the originating thread in this post is about *two* PC games, this thread is getting moved to PC Gaming in General.

~Neal

elric_sloan · Post by **elric_sloan** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:58 pm

Daveman wrote:Funny... I think there's plenty variety in the dueling locales to make it not-so-repetitive. The fights in the tavern are always the same, but that's not such a big deal to me.

The great thing about SMP! is that the mini-games are, IMO, engaging and brief enough that boredom doesn't set in. I'm playing on the hardest difficulty and duels have always been a challenge. I have to keep my eyes open and respond to every move. Now that my age is starting to kick in, I have to be especially careful, especially if someone is using a Rapier. And after a relatively brief duel, its on to something else.

I've really come to enjoy the dancing. Sure, it seemed a chore and maddeningly difficult at first, but now I do pretty darn well, even at the hardest difficulty. There comes a point when you just know that certain dance moves lead into others, that you start to notice when you're in a corner of the dance floor and know you're going to have to back up, move right, whatever... it's a great little mini-game.

Playing on the hardest difficulty now, I do have some "deeper" thoughts on the game and some issues I have with it... but I still love it. Might write up those thoughts in another thread.

I do like the mechanics of SM:Ps duels pretty well, its sort of a rock/paper/scissors sort of thing where your counter has to match their attack and vice-versa. It just the animations at the end of the duels that infuriate me. I am so sick of seeing that animation where the captain falls into the fire and then jumps of ship I cant believe it.
The dancing thing is a nice diversion but not engaging enough for me.

AAR from POTC to show you how much build 11 has improved the game:

I sail into a town (Redmond I think) with a load of cotraband, dock outside the island and make my way into town to the tavern. Talk to the smuggler there who tells me to meet him three days hence on a beach outside of town with the contraband.
I do so and as I enter the bay I find three ships (English) waiting for me. They open fire and I am hopelessly outclassed, so I do what any smuggler would do...run! Luckily I have the wind and am able to get away but it was really cool to see those ships waiting for me!

Chesspieceface · Post by **Chesspieceface** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:05 pm

You can hit the numpad enter key to skip most animations. Pirate deaths, dancing kisses/rejections it works. If that's your biggest gripe its an easy way out. Speeds up the game too.

godhugh · Post by **godhugh** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:06 pm

elric_sloan wrote: I do like the mechanics of SM:Ps duels pretty well, its sort of a rock/paper/scissors sort of thing where your counter has to match their attack and vice-versa. It just the animations at the end of the duels that infuriate me. I am so sick of seeing that animation where the captain falls into the fire and then jumps of ship I cant believe it.

Just click the mouse button right after you win and you'll skip the entire final animation.

Kyosho · Post by **Kyosho** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:53 am

Hmm. This is a very useful thread, since I've been considering buying one of these two games, and am having trouble deciding. Pray continue.

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:38 am

Kyosho wrote:Hmm. This is a very useful thread, since I've been considering buying one of these two games, and am having trouble deciding. Pray continue.

To me it depends on what you're looking for. I personally haven't played PotC, but it sounds like it's a more realistic pirate-sim, which probably means it is more serious and a little more difficult whereas Pirates! is a fun Pirate-lite game that is bright and cheerful and a fun diversion (look at all the people commenting on how they sat down to play for 30minutes and next thing they know it's 5 hours later). I personally find Pirates! to be a little repetitive so I usually don't play for more than a hour or so (and usually I sat down with the intention of only playing for 15 or 30 minutes and I lose track of time and it's an hour when I stop), but I think PotC would be too "serious" for me right now too. Pirates! is hitting the spot as a good "break" game like Sims2 is for me as well.

RickinMich · Post by **RickinMich** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:28 am

I think Icebear's hit it on the head. I haven't played SM's Pirates yet.. but will probably pick it up as a light diversion from WoW for me. PotC (as modded.. and you really must mod it) is a graphically beautiful, even a year old, deep pirates RPG. If you're looking for depth, complete open endedness (though there is a cool storyline) long lived experience, pick it up where you can, mod it and enjoy. I think, from what I'm reading here, that SM's Pirates looks to be a lot of fun to play, but in a different way. I'll definitely be picking it up.

Rick

Mr. Sparkle · Post by **Mr. Sparkle** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:03 am

I downloaded Build 12 for PotC last night, but have yet to fire it up... I had some issues with the un-modded version, but did enjoy it... we'll see how it handles tonight. It's been so long since I played it, I can't even remember what it is that I liked/didn't like.

I won't pick up Pirates! until after the Holidays, so hopefully this will tide me over. Thanks guys.

Head · Post by **Head** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:14 pm

Can't locate Build 12 and the site will not allow you to DL Build 11. Please help!

godhugh · Post by **godhugh** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:26 pm

Can I use some of the graphic mods along with Build 12? If so, what are some good ones?

Mr. Sparkle · Post by **Mr. Sparkle** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:46 pm

Head wrote:Can't locate Build 12 and the site will not allow you to DL Build 11. Please help!

Build 12 at Pirates Ahoy! Forum

WARNING: Excessive use of pirate smilies and "Yaaar" and "Avast" within.

Can I use some of the graphic mods along with Build 12? If so, what are some good ones?

I think Build 12 comes with new textures...

Head · Post by **Head** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:15 pm

Well, I just found out the that build 12 is a 3.7 MB installer progam that will start a 50 MB download via internet. For some reason, they do not have a file you can do a straight down load from. The computer you launch the installer from must have PotC installed on it in order to get the build 12 files. Too bad!

Mr. Sparkle · Post by **Mr. Sparkle** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:28 pm

Head wrote:Well, I just found out the that build 12 is a 3.7 MB installer progam that will start a 50 MB download via internet. For some reason, they do not have a file you can do a straight down load from. The computer you launch the installer from must have PotC installed on it in order to get the build 12 files. Too bad!

A quick glance at the forums says you can edit the registry to think you have PotC installed, so that you can download it and move it to another computer...

Head · Post by **Head** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:32 pm

Mr. Sparkle wrote:
Head wrote:Well, I just found out the that build 12 is a 3.7 MB installer progam that will start a 50 MB download via internet. For some reason, they do not have a file you can do a straight down load from. The computer you launch the installer from must have PotC installed on it in order to get the build 12 files. Too bad!
A quick glance at the forums says you can edit the registry to think you have PotC installed, so that you can download it and move it to another computer...

Don't have administrator rights at my T1 workstation.

Two Sheds · Post by **Two Sheds** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:56 pm

Interesting thread. I may have to pick up PoTC and try it out with these updates the next time I see it cheap.

docvego · Post by **docvego** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:46 am

I haven't heard about the POTC mod until now, I really enjoyed the game from what I remember. I'll download the Mod tonight if I can remember where I put my copy of POTC. I've been spending a lot of time with SM:P this week so I'll try to compare the two of them.

What I find most odd about SM:P is that when I think about it, the game feels really repetitive. Yet, I still manage to lose track of time when I load it up.

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:02 am

docvego wrote:I haven't heard about the POTC mod until now, I really enjoyed the game from what I remember. I'll download the Mod tonight if I can remember where I put my copy of POTC. I've been spending a lot of time with SM:P this week so I'll try to compare the two of them.

What I find most odd about SM:P is that when I think about it, the game feels really repetitive. Yet, I still manage to lose track of time when I load it up.

Same here. I feel like I SHOULD be bored, but I end up have a lot of fun and losing track of time. I guess that's a good thing

Mr. Sparkle · Post by **Mr. Sparkle** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:14 am

Well, I played Build 12 a decent amount this weekend... I haven't played the new Pirates... and I haven't even played PotC in quite some time.

However, it does seem a lot better... interface is still wonky, of course... who the hell thought it was a good idea to make 'c' use health potions, while F2 is your "character screen"... ah the potions I've wasted trying to look at my quests... but anyway...

The game seems "easier"... mainly because I think they start you with more money, and give you more monetary rewards from quests (at least I think so - I remember being stiffed regularly by the Redmon govenor, but now he seems to shower me with gold)... it means, that you can hire officers right away, without ever needing a loan really... and officers make a BIG difference.

Swordfighting seems easier too... though I don't know whether that is because it is easier to have "boyz" to back you up, or something they did in the mod. But I breezed through most of the plot that I had accomplished in the original, where I remember having to save/reload several tough swordfights... not so this time.

Having to carry food/rum rations was a little confusing at first... but I like it.

I like they way the ships "feel", even though when you are working against the wind it seems like you are trying to row through drying concrete... the Schooner I got moved like a dream... compared to the Lugger you start with, she was on permanent turbo... and that Frigate... not as nimble, but 40+ 24 pounders made me feel like I was carrying a tactical nuke in my pocket... I shudder to contemplate a Battleship...

Head · Post by **Head** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:26 pm

Thanks Mr Sparkle. I hope to read some more of your impressions tomorrow if you've played some more PotC Build 12 since this weekend.

~Head

Mr. Sparkle · Post by **Mr. Sparkle** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:45 pm

Head wrote:Thanks Mr Sparkle. I hope to read some more of your impressions tomorrow if you've played some more PotC Build 12 since this weekend.

~Head

Well I encountered what I think is some bug with reputation (my rep mysteriously dropped to "Horror of the High Seas" with no seeming cause, which means you can't interract with legit people)... the Piratesahoy people haven't been able to offer me much of an explanation, except one guy who said "don't take loans"... so it looks like I'm restarting to do just that. The good news is, that I find the gameplay good enough to do that, instead of just saying "f-it"... and there is really no reason to take a loan anyway.

Though this means that more meaningful impressions will be a while in coming, since I will have to work through a sizeable part of the plot to get where I was when I posted those last ones.

I can say, that what is keeping me interested in this title, is the sea combat. I know a bit about sailing, as my dad grew up near Annapolis, and I spent many a summer weekend sailing the Severn with him as a boy... however the largest "ship" I have ever commanded is a Sunfish... which is the equivalent of saying I played Pac-Man once and then positing I should be a computer games reviewer... but ayway, the sea combat just seems really deep.

I didn't know there was such a thing as the weather gage before I saw it referenced in Master & Commander (the movie, not the book), and basically thought "yeah it's better to not have to tack to go where you want to go"... but this game makes it very very clear how much the wind means to a sailing vessel.

I'm only now beginning to realize how badly I am getting outmanuevered by the AI... which is pretty cool, I think.

However, it's really slow. Even in the faster ships, with a good stiff wind at your back; compared to "normal" games, action seems somewhat glacial. This is from someone whose tactics are so poor, that I generally just try to close distance as fast as I can... if I ubderstood things better and was more patient (which I am learnings) it would take even longer to actually start the cannons firing... when the History books talk about it taking days for fleets to manuever before they actually started an engagement; I begin to understand why.

Head · Post by **Head** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:43 pm

Time for an update Mr S.......