Just wondering what your criteria are for a fair trade?

[lokiju]

BTW, lokiju, that "splash" sound was your cardboard being blown out of the water. It would be good form at this juncture to concede that keepbox+insistonbox (aka "one could expect a retention of boxes") is not most rational, rather than try to sustain that illusion from the deck of a sinking shipment.

No need to make this personal. Just because you think your thoughts have more merit than mine doesn't make you right. My "good form" is to understand reality. People with boxes will have an easier time trading than those without. I have been trading for far too long and have personal experience with many members asking if boxes will be included.

[lokiju]

Neither humor nor sarcasm. I really do like cookies, and knowing someone included cookies in their trade really would make me more likely to trade with them. Although it would make it ineligible for media mail.

I wouldn't put it past the USPS to open them up just to get at the cookies! The post office runs the world, let's face it.

[Grundbegriff]

I have been playing devil's advocate the whole time...as I already stated that I personally don't need boxes. I just like them for trading purposes.

But earlier, lokiju wrote: "Even a missing box bothers me."

You talk about rationality where I talk about tradability. I am not even sure why philosophy entered into this conversation in the first place?

But earlier, lokiju wrote: "Of course, every once in a great while someone scoffs at my rational (albeit self perceived, lol) trading sense, and I start to wonder how 2 views on equality can be so skewed."

Is should be as clear cut as having a greater trader base willing to take your goods.

No, it shouldn't necessarily be that simple. For many, the added value of a broader base of potential traders isn't worth the hassle of retaining, preserving, and eventually packaging a box. Likewise, for many the added value of a box is so negligible that broadening one's base by appealing to those who value them, demand mint condition, and insist on exhaustive completeness is irksome.

What you do with your own items is up to you. My point has simply been that if you wish to trade, there is a greater chance of that happening if you have the box. It's a simple truth. No reason to get all deep and philosophical.

Your point wasn't merely that if you wish to trade, there's a greater chance of trading if you have the box; your point was also to defend the practice of insisting on a box from those with whom you trade, as your initial, thread-starting message makes entirely clear. I've pointed out this crucial distinction repeatedly, and you have yet to acknowledge it by owning up to the import of your earlier messages.

You can agree to disagree, as it appears is the case. I will keep my boxes so I have an easier time trading

...and you can, at the same time, insist on receiving boxes and find yourself frustrated, so that you end up lamenting, "But I have said no to games of less value that are also not complete. Even a missing box bothers me.... Feh, just ranting I guess...."

you can throw them out and trade as you will.

With over 60 trades at GoneGold and here, I suppose I have no complaint.

No one needs to win or lose, it's simply a matter of taste.

Thanks for finally conceding the point! I guess you now regard your initial message and subsequent reinforcement of it as misguided, yes?

[Blackhawk]

Second, keeping boxes doesn't "make your collection a bit more tradeable" unless you don't care about receiving boxes in return. Offering trades with boxes addresses a broader audience (carton-cravers and carton-discarders), but if you insist on receiving a box in return, you're really only addressing the carton-cravers after all.

I think you're arguing my point. I don't recall ever saying that I insisted on boxes in return, just that I kept boxes to make my collection more useful in trading. I've traded for plain ol' disks wrapped in newspaper more than once.

If I keep all the boxes I get, but don't insist on receiving them for trades, then I can trade with everybody. If I throw them away, I can't trade with everybody. Therefore, keeping them makes my collection more tradeable, a reasonable decision for someone interested in trading - which was all I ever claimed.

[lokiju]

But earlier, lokiju wrote: "Even a missing box bothers me."

In slicing and dicing my entire post, you have misinterpreted my meaning. I apologize if I was not clear in that I am bothered by people not keepng boxes, not because I need them for my own tastes, but because that hurts my future trading.

But earlier, lokiju wrote: "Of course, every once in a great while someone scoffs at my rational (albeit self perceived, lol) trading sense, and I start to wonder how 2 views on equality can be so skewed."

Good point, I eat my shoe on that one. I was leaning towards trading sense and less on the psychological, and I should have made that more clear, though they are related obviously.

No, it shouldn't necessarily be that simple. For many, the added value of a broader base of potential traders isn't worth the hassle of retaining, preserving, and eventually packaging a box. Likewise, for many the added value of a box is so negligible that broadening one's base by appealing to those who value them, demand mint condition, and insist on exhaustive completeness is irksome.

I fear that in this we have to agree to disagree. I like the cushion of having extra trading power, and keeping boxes isn't a bother in my home.

Your point wasn't merely that if you wish to trade, there's a greater chance of trading if you have the box; your point was also to defend the practice of insisting on a box from those with whom you trade, as your initial, thread-starting message makes entirely clear. I've pointed out this crucial distinction repeatedly, and you have yet to acknowledge it by owning up to the import of your earlier messages.

But again, I have stated that my insistence was for my trading needs, not my personal collecting needs.

...and you can, at the same time, insist on receiving boxes and find yourself frustrated, so that you end up lamenting, "But I have said no to games of less value that are also not complete. Even a missing box bothers me.... Feh, just ranting I guess...."

Now you are just being redundant.

With over 60 trades at GoneGold and here, I suppose I have no complaint.

For someone with no complaints, you sure seem adamant in your desires to make it clear to all that box saving is a terrible thing (at least it seems that way, I may have taken things a little too personally though). It appears that we have the same number of trades under our belt, so it could stand to reason that both of our beliefs have been beneficial to us.

Thanks for finally conceding the point! I guess you now regard your initial message and subsequent reinforcement of it as misguided, yes?

You misinterpreted my inital post, so it really is a moot point at this time. But in any case, I've already stated as much in other posts in this thread. You are finally conceding that which I already conceded many times thus far...to each their own. What you and I both do seems to work for us.

Man, you are making me work too hard, time for a hot bath and some green tea. I still can't get out of my gaming funk.

[Grundbegriff]

No need to make this personal.

From my perspective, it's entirely impersonal.

Just because you think your thoughts have more merit than mine doesn't make you right.

Of course it doesn't. What makes me right is that my conclusion follows validly from the available sound premises while your conclusion does not. While our thoughts are equally meritorious in a social sense, truth and accuracy are truth and accuracy.

My "good form" is to understand reality. People with boxes will have an easier time trading than those without.

Yes, but people with boxes who also insist on receiving boxes will have a harder time than those who do no so insist. Remember: your initial message whined ("ranted" was your word) about the results of your insistence on receiving boxes and your regret over having compromised that insistence.

Why do your attempted rebuttals continue to skirt that key point?

[Grundbegriff]

Good point, I eat my shoe on that one.

Thanks.

I fear that in this we have to agree to disagree. I like the cushion of having extra trading power, and keeping boxes isn't a bother in my home.

If you can acknowledge that other people may reasonably draw the conclusion that it is a bother relative to their circumstances and preferences, then we've reached common ground. It isn't inherently more reasonable or more rational to seek to optimize one's trading power by retaining boxes; it's only more reasonable to do so if no other factors weigh decisively against such a practice.

For someone with no complaints, you sure seem adamant in your desires to make it clear to all that box saving is a terrible thing (at least it seems that way, I may have taken things a little too personally though).

I think you have. Not only do I like boxes, but I take a professional interest in cover art.

[Meghan]

being a level 96 Pack Rat with a Godly Amulet of Hording, I don't trade. But I would have assumed that boxes were detrimental to trades because they cost more to ship than just a cd and (usually) skimpy manual.

Does cost of shipping enter into a person's need or distaste for boxes?

[lokiju]

being a level 96 Pack Rat with a Godly Amulet of Hording, I don't trade. But I would have assumed that boxes were detrimental to trades because they cost more to ship than just a cd and (usually) skimpy manual.

Does cost of shipping enter into a person's need or distaste for boxes?

It definitely could, though I have never run into shipping issues before with anyone. Both parties have to agree on fast or slow shipping, based on individual needs. I usually ship media mail for cost (and most agree as we all have backlogs and no need for fast shipping), but once in a while I will enter into a priority mail trade. You save so much by trading games that shipping is an acceptable fee IMHO.

[Two Sheds]

I always love a good Grund v. Somebody argument, I just didn't expect one about boxes, of all things. Entertaining, nonetheless.

Edit: Oh, and I keep my boxes, but that's just because I don't have all that many to begin with and I like to display them on the top shelf of my computer desk. If I had very many more, I'd definitely start throwing them out or, at the very least, flattening them.