Infogrames sells Civilization franchise but to who?

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:23 am

Reuters is reporting that Infogrames has sold the Civ franchise for $15MM euros, about $20MM:

http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCo ... 347_newsml

But strange, no mention is made of the buyer. And even stranger there's been no press conference from the buyer announcing it. You'd think whoever bought it would be trumpeting the purchase with PR talk about their plans for the future. The whole thing sounds strange to me.

Grifman

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:40 am

I can see why they'd want to cash out a valuable PC strategy brand. PC strategy games offer very little growth potential, and don't contribute to the AAA blockbuster console strategy that a giant like Atari has to pursue. But I, too, would love to know who had 15.5 million to snap it up...not a plucky independent, certainly. Sid himself, maybe? (Just a WAG) And what will it mean for Civ4, which I thought was in early development?

Hrdina · Post by **Hrdina** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:35 am

Ironrod wrote:I can see why they'd want to cash out a valuable PC strategy brand. PC strategy games offer very little growth potential, and don't contribute to the AAA blockbuster console strategy that a giant like Atari has to pursue. But I, too, would love to know who had 15.5 million to snap it up...not a plucky independent, certainly. Sid himself, maybe? (Just a WAG) And what will it mean for Civ4, which I thought was in early development?

Can Firaxis really afford that kind of dough?

Let's hope so.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:22 pm

Let's hope Civilization isn't going to hell in a handbasket.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:26 pm

dbt1949 wrote:Let's hope Civilization isn't going to hell in a handbasket.

I thought Firaxis stood for "fiery axis" not "fiery basket"?

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:23 pm

Ironrod wrote:And what will it mean for Civ4, which I thought was in early development?

Well, seeing as someone just plunked down $20MM for it, I think not much. They'd be highly unlikely to go change things now and threaten their investment.

Grifman

Veloxi · Post by **Veloxi** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:02 pm

Personally, I'm hoping Ubisoft. They've been doing quite well lately, and I'd love to see them give the Civ series the respect it deserves, as they have with simulations such as IL-2 and Pacific Fighters.

Quaro · Post by **Quaro** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:08 pm

I don't see Ubisoft blowing that much money like that. Who does stuff like this? Maybe Microsoft... Xbox2 launch title?

knob · Post by **knob** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:59 pm

Quaro wrote:I don't see Ubisoft blowing that much money like that. Who does stuff like this? Maybe Microsoft... Xbox2 launch title?

I find that hard to believe. I just can't see Civ being a great console game, let alone a great launch game.

Moat_Man · Post by **Moat_Man** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:13 pm

I bet Derek Smart bought the rights.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:58 pm

Hrdina · Post by **Hrdina** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:25 pm

Moat_Man wrote:I bet Derek Smart bought the rights.

You better put some kind of smilie after a remark like that, mister.

Meghan · Post by **Meghan** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:54 pm

relax - it was probably Bethesda ...

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:04 am

Here's someone else speculating that it's Firaxis. This is from the Civ Fanatics Center:

Additional info from HomeLAN Fed:
HomeLAN contacted Atari corporate PR represenative Nancy Bushkin over the phone this morning who confirmed that the Atari will no longer be publishing any more Civilization games, although it still retains the rights to sell its previous Civ games through October 2005. Bushkin would not reveal who Infogrames/Atari sold the Civ franchise to HomeLAN saying, "That's up to that party to disclose that." A couple of years ago, Atari announced a multi-year deal with Firaxis to publish a number of their games, including more Civilization games, and Bushkin said today they still have a good relationship with Firaxis but would not reveal future publishing plans with the developer, other than the upcoming Xbox version of their just released PC title Sid Meier's Pirates. HomeLAN has contact Firaxis Games for comment but has not yet received an answer to our inquiries on this matter.

Let's hope the buyer is Firaxis! It certainly seems likely considering the fact that Firaxis bought back the rights to several classic Sid Meier games from Atari last year.

Thanks to Kai Fiebach of Civ3.de for the news tip and HomeLAN Fed for the additional info.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:58 am

I'm not sure Firaxis buying it makes sense - they still need a publisher to distribute it. The last time they attempted self-distribution (Antietam), they didn't exactly set any sales records. There aren't many publishers that could distribute a game better than Atari. It's possible, though, that Atari wouldn't sell directly to EA or Microsoft; so Firaxis bought it as an intermediary.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:25 pm

Jeff V wrote:I'm not sure Firaxis buying it makes sense - they still need a publisher to distribute it. The last time they attempted self-distribution (Antietam), they didn't exactly set any sales records. There aren't many publishers that could distribute a game better than Atari. It's possible, though, that Atari wouldn't sell directly to EA or Microsoft; so Firaxis bought it as an intermediary.

I thought the same thing but it is possible that Firaxis bought it to control the license. After all, though the game is associated with SM, there's no guarantee that Atari would always use Firaxis to develop the next Civ. Atari owned the license so they could chcose anyone they wanted, or just sit on it for that matter. Firaxis may have wanted final control over the license.

Grifman

Veloxi · Post by **Veloxi** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:30 pm

If Firaxis did buy the rights and everything back, 2 questions immediately come to my mind:

1. Where did they get the funds to spend that kind of money to buy back the license?

2. Where will they get the funds to publish their own game?

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:46 pm

Veloxi wrote:If Firaxis did buy the rights and everything back, 2 questions immediately come to my mind:

1. Where did they get the funds to spend that kind of money to buy back the license?

Any number of ways - borrowed it, issued stock to private investors, maybe SM/others have the money

2. Where will they get the funds to publish their own game?

Who says they have to publish it? They just sign with a new publisher and bring the license with them.

Grifman

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:56 pm

Veloxi wrote:If Firaxis did buy the rights and everything back, 2 questions immediately come to my mind:

1. Where did they get the funds to spend that kind of money to buy back the license?

2. Where will they get the funds to publish their own game?

1. Pirates! is coming out for consoles. The advances on that alone might net them that sort of scratch (and Atari could have structured the deal including with that in mind).

2. They've self-published before (Antietam). Self-publishing isn't an issue; but if they do so, the market size will shrink because their distribution channel is would be a fraction of what Atari already has.

The only thing that makes sense is for them to publish through EA or Microsoft, the only publishers substantially larger than Atari (the other two Frenchies, Vivendi and UBI Soft, would be lateral moves). An imminent deal with either would also probably provide enough capital to consummate this deal.

While $20M is a lot, it isn't THAT much. Ensemble spent $25 million making Age of Mythology, for example. Microsoft made $125 million on Halo 2 in one day. The Civ franchise has been pretty successful (3 companies were sunk over the name alone), so the investment capital probably wouldn't be that hard to drum up.

Veloxi · Post by **Veloxi** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:06 pm

Good points all around. I sincerely hope it is Firaxis. That way there's less developer/publisher friction or problems.

JayG · Post by **JayG** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:20 pm

Age of Mythology cost 25 Million????? Where did the money go. Makes Half Life look cheap.

CSL · Post by **CSL** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:44 pm

JayG wrote:Age of Mythology cost 25 Million????? Where did the money go. Makes Half Life look cheap.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:17 pm

Jeff V wrote:While $20M is a lot, it isn't THAT much. Ensemble spent $25 million making Age of Mythology, for example. Microsoft made $125 million on Halo 2 in one day. The Civ franchise has been pretty successful (3 companies were sunk over the name alone), so the investment capital probably wouldn't be that hard to drum up.

Maybe so, but you're comparing apples and oranges. The $20MM is just to get the game license, and you are comparing that to development costs of AoM. The Civ develoment costs would come on top of the $20MM. And though I love Civ, I don't think it would sell anything like Halo 2.

Grifman

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:34 pm

JayG wrote:Age of Mythology cost 25 Million????? Where did the money go. Makes Half Life look cheap.

It took 5 years to make. Ensemble has a huge staff for a gaming company, as well as nice digs. The launch party (which was awesome btw) probably set them back $250K right there.

Their break-even point at that cost was 800,000 units, which they hit in under two months.

Grifman wrote:Maybe so, but you're comparing apples and oranges. The $20MM is just to get the game license, and you are comparing that to development costs of AoM. The Civ develoment costs would come on top of the $20MM. And though I love Civ, I don't think it would sell anything like Halo 2.

I'm not comparing anything, I'm giving an idea about what sort of financial ball park class-A titles play in. Civilization sold an awful lot over the years - I think it's still the best-selling strategy game franchise. Pirates could very well strike gold for them on consoles as well.

Since Microsoft has the rest of the Civilization family in their catalog (co-designer Bruce Shelley w/Ensemble, Brian Reynolds and Tim Train w/BHG), I wonder if they are shooting for a trifecta.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:30 am

Jeff V wrote:
Their break-even point at that cost was 800,000 units, which they hit in under two months.

That seems awfully low. That means that Ensemble got $31.25 for each copy? That seems unlikely, if you assume the game went for $50, it leaves only $19/copy for the retailers and the publisher. I didn't think developers got that high of a cut.

Or was the $25MM inclusive of Microsoft's costs also for marketing, distribution, etc.?

Grifman

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 9:33 am

Jeff V wrote: I'm not comparing anything,

Yes, you are. You said $20MM isn't alot and then compared it with the cost of other games you know about. But again, you were comparing the cost of a license with the cost of development.

Let's assume Firaxis did buy the license. Well, now they've spent $20MM (comparable to other games developments costs as you pointed out) and they don't even have a game ready to sell! They still have to spend a ton of money on development.

Yes, games cost alot to make but $20MM is alot for a license when you still have to spend money on further development.

Grifman

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:00 pm

Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Announces Acquisition of Civilization Franchise and Long-Term Partnership with FIRAXIS Games

The Preacher · Post by **The Preacher** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:42 pm

Hell, I'm just impressed that you remember this thread, Nade. Bravo to you!

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:04 pm

I heard EA was interested.

Goonch · Post by **Goonch** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:23 am

Rowdy wrote:I heard EA was interested.

SSSsshhhhhhh...don't mention that awful 2 letter word. They might just buy Take-Two