El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:35 pm
Odo has to be a hell of a lover, right? Unlimited flexibility. Plus like you could basically do it with any celebrity that you wanted.
As long as that celebrity slightly resembled their wax statue doppelgänger after a few hours near a radiator...sure.
El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:35 pm
Odo has to be a hell of a lover, right? Unlimited flexibility. Plus like you could basically do it with any celebrity that you wanted.
As long as that celebrity slightly resembled their wax statue doppelgänger after a few hours near a radiator...sure.
It's been awhile since I've watched DS9 (unfortunately) but I thought that Odo could copy people effectively but was choosing not to? I have a vague recollection that his standard 'look' was due to initially not understanding how to do it quite right, but that even after he could he decided to make the affirmative choice to keep the face that people were used to.
El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:35 pm
Odo has to be a hell of a lover, right? Unlimited flexibility. Plus like you could basically do it with any celebrity that you wanted.
As long as that celebrity slightly resembled their wax statue doppelgänger after a few hours near a radiator...sure.
It's been awhile since I've watched DS9 (unfortunately) but I thought that Odo could copy people effectively but was choosing not to? I have a vague recollection that his standard 'look' was due to initially not understanding how to do it quite right, but that even after he could he decided to make the affirmative choice to keep the face that people were used to.
Something like that, but also there's the fact that keeping shape exhausted him, therefore the bucket he had as a 'resting' place.
El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:35 pm
Odo has to be a hell of a lover, right? Unlimited flexibility. Plus like you could basically do it with any celebrity that you wanted.
As long as that celebrity slightly resembled their wax statue doppelgänger after a few hours near a radiator...sure.
It's been awhile since I've watched DS9 (unfortunately) but I thought that Odo could copy people effectively but was choosing not to? I have a vague recollection that his standard 'look' was due to initially not understanding how to do it quite right, but that even after he could he decided to make the affirmative choice to keep the face that people were used to.
El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:35 pm
Odo has to be a hell of a lover, right? Unlimited flexibility. Plus like you could basically do it with any celebrity that you wanted.
As long as that celebrity slightly resembled their wax statue doppelgänger after a few hours near a radiator...sure.
It's been awhile since I've watched DS9 (unfortunately) but I thought that Odo could copy people effectively but was choosing not to? I have a vague recollection that his standard 'look' was due to initially not understanding how to do it quite right, but that even after he could he decided to make the affirmative choice to keep the face that people were used to.
You misunderstand. I meant it was a perk.
Ohh, right - I forgot about how you've been permanently banned from Madame Tussaud's.
El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:35 pm
Odo has to be a hell of a lover, right? Unlimited flexibility. Plus like you could basically do it with any celebrity that you wanted.
As long as that celebrity slightly resembled their wax statue doppelgänger after a few hours near a radiator...sure.
It's been awhile since I've watched DS9 (unfortunately) but I thought that Odo could copy people effectively but was choosing not to? I have a vague recollection that his standard 'look' was due to initially not understanding how to do it quite right, but that even after he could he decided to make the affirmative choice to keep the face that people were used to.
IIRC, Odo could never get humanoid faces correct, but his people were able to which is how they infiltrated Starfleet, the Klingons, etc... I can't recall him ever being able to do it. Inaminate objects and animals, yes, people, nope.
El Guapo wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:35 pm
Odo has to be a hell of a lover, right? Unlimited flexibility. Plus like you could basically do it with any celebrity that you wanted.
As long as that celebrity slightly resembled their wax statue doppelgänger after a few hours near a radiator...sure.
It's been awhile since I've watched DS9 (unfortunately) but I thought that Odo could copy people effectively but was choosing not to? I have a vague recollection that his standard 'look' was due to initially not understanding how to do it quite right, but that even after he could he decided to make the affirmative choice to keep the face that people were used to.
You misunderstand. I meant it was a perk.
Ohh, right - I forgot about how you've been permanently banned from Madame Tussaud's.
You put a Bea Arthur wax statue in an area protected solely by a rope and nature will run its course.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:17 am
by Zarathud
hepcat wrote:
You put a Bea Arthur wax statue in an area protected solely by a rope and nature will run its course.
This is why they called the show the Golden Girls.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:23 pm
by rittchard
As great as this week's Mando episode was, I'm surprised Discovery didn't also get some love. I am loving this season, and this episode was like next level. Bringing themes and references from TOS, TNG and even Picard (I think) into play, I thought it was just fantastic and a treat for long time Star Trek fans. But on top of that, what I really like is this season feels like there is more heart - the crew feels a bit more alive and I actually care about some of the side characters a little more. Putting them into this predicament is very Voyager-esque, making them become more and more of a "family" - it's working well.
One minor complaint/observation - is Sonequa struggling to speak or is she like whispering all her dialog? I'm not sure what's going on, I even looked up whether she had Covid or something. Or do you think I am bonkers and this is just her acting style?
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:48 pm
by hepcat
Loved it as well except for
Spoiler:
Jamming mom into the show in a really stupid plot twist.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:20 pm
by El Guapo
hepcat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:48 pm
Loved it as well except for
Spoiler:
Jamming mom into the show in a really stupid plot twist.
I agree, though I'm not sure that it's even in my top 5 of "baffling plot decisions" for Discovery. I love the show, in large part because it really does a fantastic job with the characters (Ceru and Tilly in particular are amazing characters) and making the universe feel 'lived in' without sacrificing core elements of the Trek universe.
But man, some of the plot choices that they make are pretty weird.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:43 pm
by hepcat
I think front and center for me is the inability of Michael to grow. We spent 2 seasons getting her to realize that going off on her own and trying to do everything was not the way of the Federation...and more importantly, stupid and thoughtless. She needed the Federation and everything it embodied. And she appeared to be doing just that.
Now we're back to square one with her. At this point I'm kind of just tired of her as a character and wish they'd just focus on the much more interesting Ceru, or the fantastic buddy show featuring Stamets and Reno I never knew I wanted until they stuck them together.
...seriously, I love those two together.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:34 pm
by El Guapo
hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:43 pm
I think front and center for me is the inability of Michael to grow. We spent 2 seasons getting her to realize that going off on her own and trying to do everything was not the way of the Federation...and more importantly, stupid and thoughtless. She needed the Federation and everything it embodied. And she appeared to be doing just that.
Now we're back to square one with her. At this point I'm kind of just tired of her as a character and wish they'd just focus on the much more interesting Ceru, or the fantastic buddy show featuring Stamets and Reno I never knew I wanted until they stuck them together.
...seriously, I love those two together.
Yeah, I agree - that was a bit of a retread for her character. I do get that she spent a year in the future on her own, and everything's different in the future, and it's fair that that would mix things up a bit for her character. But at the same time I feel like the show has mostly just said (repeatedly) that she was thrown off by her year of experience on her own, without really spelling that out much in detail. Like, I feel that we could've benefitted from an episode or two that was just her and Book if they wanted that to be a big deal for her character. Who knows, maybe that's coming in the form of an episode that jumps back a bit in time.
But yeah, 100% on board with Ceru, as well as Reno. Another sign of the great job that the show does (in general) with characters. I liked a comment I read online at the beginning of season 2 - "I'm not sure why they brought in Pike to be Captain when they have a perfectly good Ceru right there." Glad that they finally elevated him to Captain this season.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:43 pm
by hepcat
Ceru is Picard though, while Pike is Kirk. I’m fine with having both. Especially when Anson Mount is Pike.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:49 pm
by hepcat
Regarding the latest episode. I think I squealed a little bit when we found out
Spoiler:
It was the goddamn Guardian of Forever.
Sure it was pure fan service, but I don’t care. I loved it.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:17 pm
by El Guapo
hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:49 pm
Regarding the latest episode. I think I squealed a little bit when we found out
Spoiler:
It was the goddamn Guardian of Forever.
Sure it was pure fan service, but I don’t care. I loved it.
I'm surprised that Yeoh didn't turn to the camera at the end of that episode and say "Be sure to tune in to my new Section 31 show, details to come!"
I did enjoy that episode, and these two episodes had the most character development on Georgiou that the show has had in awhile. I am also a bit glad that she's off of Discovery now, because she really didn't fit in super well this season.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:49 pm
by $iljanus
I think now is the time to resubscribe to CBS all access.
hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:49 pm
Regarding the latest episode. I think I squealed a little bit when we found out
Spoiler:
It was the goddamn Guardian of Forever.
Sure it was pure fan service, but I don’t care. I loved it.
I'm surprised that Yeoh didn't turn to the camera at the end of that episode and say "Be sure to tune in to my new Section 31 show, details to come!"
I did enjoy that episode, and these two episodes had the most character development on Georgiou that the show has had in awhile. I am also a bit glad that she's off of Discovery now, because she really didn't fit in super well this season.
Like I've said, I can't argue with the complaints about her character. But I'll be damned if I don't love seeing Yeoh play her.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:06 am
by Defiant
So I finished watching this season of Discovery. Pretty good. 7.5/10.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:40 am
by hepcat
I liked it. They're working on capturing the humanity of TNG while incorporating the action of TOS. They added a dash of story arc from DS9 to boot.
The whole dilithium planet storyline was silly, but it gave Saru a chance to shine. He's always been their Picard. I really hope he returns for season 4.
My biggest issue is that they cut down on the amount of Stamets and Reno screen time. I love those two together.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:19 pm
by Defiant
Random comments:
Spoiler:
What I liked
What they did with Vulcan. The Vulcan episode was really good, with the exception of Michael's mother.
The burn and the Federation post burn.
Reno is excellent.
The Orion woman actually seriously offering to have Emerald Chain join with the Federation until it meant she would have to stand trial.
Kind of meh about:
Michael's mother. (I'll admit not remembering much of the stuff about her from the last season, but it felt just kind of meh and I would rather she not have been in at all.)
The cause of the burn. It was a bit of an anticlimax for it to be caused by an emotional reaction.
The music the burn caused (it still feels kind of just there to make the thing feel mysterious, but it feels awkwardly fit because they never explained it convincingly.)
Confused about:
Did the burn only affect ships travelling in warp? Cause that's what they said in one episode, but when they had a flashback to the burn, the ships that exploded weren't travelling.
Could be better:
I wish the series had a slightly less serialized format (I think DS9 did it brilliantly as a compromise between serial and episodic), and wished the series had some more episodes to further explore this limited-warp-travel era.
Random comments:
Also, were a few of the regulators borg? When they put that thing on Stamet's head, I got a vague impression of that.
OK, why did the personal virtual transporter/tricorder/gun not include a medkit, too?
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:06 pm
by El Guapo
I really enjoyed the three-part finale. I didn't mind the dilithium planet storyline. I really liked the holoworld set up - nice exploration set up that I really thought called back well to TOS. I also thought making it three part gave them a lot of time to work with to build a decent story. And I thought doing both the dilithium planet and the Emerald Chain stuff let them do both an exploration / discovery angle and a politics / action angle, which I thought worked well.
I also really hope that they bring Saru back. I think he and Tilly are the strongest characters on the show. Also hoping that season 4 is oriented around a mix of rebuilding the Federation and exploration storylines.
I also really liked Admiral Vance. I thought the actor who played him did a good job, and conveyed a good mix of hard-nosed desperate leader and idealist.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:23 pm
by hepcat
I always like it when they go against the hard nosed admiral stereotype and make them sympathetic. Star Trek has a history of doing that and it’s nice they’re continuing that legacy.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:11 am
by Defiant
Regarding the holoplanet, the loose end regarding Gray seemed kind of a dumb loose end, since couldn't they just reuse the solution used in the holoplanet?
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:13 am
by Defiant
Regarding the actor who played Vance, I knew I recognized him from somewhere, and it turns out he was this guy from The Mummy movies:
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:52 am
by $iljanus
Defiant wrote:Regarding the holoplanet, the loose end regarding Gray seemed kind of a dumb loose end, since couldn't they just reuse the solution used in the holoplanet?
They probably will address this next season. I wonder if a certain EMH is still around in their timeline...?
Defiant wrote:Regarding the holoplanet, the loose end regarding Gray seemed kind of a dumb loose end, since couldn't they just reuse the solution used in the holoplanet?
They probably will address this next season. I wonder if a certain EMH is still around in their timeline...?
Hehe yeah I was saying the same thing. It's kind of ludicrous no one thought of that since it was actually a known old technology. I could forgive the Discovery folks not knowing but whats-her-face who is supposed to be so brilliant should have thought of it immediately. Oh well.
I really enjoyed the finale but little things like that kind of gave me pause. The other big one for me was how Discovery could hold the ENTIRE Starfleet fleet at bay, and even seem to be winning? I mean, we know it got some upgrades but come on, at heart it's still based on super old tech, aside from the super Spore drive which was not in play. I know it's nitpicky and usually I try to avoid that, but it kind of jumped out at me.
Defiant wrote:Regarding the holoplanet, the loose end regarding Gray seemed kind of a dumb loose end, since couldn't they just reuse the solution used in the holoplanet?
They probably will address this next season. I wonder if a certain EMH is still around in their timeline...?
Hehe yeah I was saying the same thing. It's kind of ludicrous no one thought of that since it was actually a known old technology. I could forgive the Discovery folks not knowing but whats-her-face who is supposed to be so brilliant should have thought of it immediately. Oh well.
I really enjoyed the finale but little things like that kind of gave me pause. The other big one for me was how Discovery could hold the ENTIRE Starfleet fleet at bay, and even seem to be winning? I mean, we know it got some upgrades but come on, at heart it's still based on super old tech, aside from the super Spore drive which was not in play. I know it's nitpicky and usually I try to avoid that, but it kind of jumped out at me.
I’ll give them a pass on not coming up with a solution for Gray since they were pretty surprised that Gray was able to manifest himself on the dilithium planet and there were a few other things going on at the time. But they’ll get to a solution I’m sure...probably.
As for Discovery standing up to Starfleet, I guess Starfleet may have been trying to disable rather than destroy Discovery? That helped me accept it.
And I really liked the admiral. Not often do you hear about eating shit during high level diplomatic negotiations.
Defiant wrote:Regarding the holoplanet, the loose end regarding Gray seemed kind of a dumb loose end, since couldn't they just reuse the solution used in the holoplanet?
They probably will address this next season. I wonder if a certain EMH is still around in their timeline...?
Hehe yeah I was saying the same thing. It's kind of ludicrous no one thought of that since it was actually a known old technology. I could forgive the Discovery folks not knowing but whats-her-face who is supposed to be so brilliant should have thought of it immediately. Oh well.
I really enjoyed the finale but little things like that kind of gave me pause. The other big one for me was how Discovery could hold the ENTIRE Starfleet fleet at bay, and even seem to be winning? I mean, we know it got some upgrades but come on, at heart it's still based on super old tech, aside from the super Spore drive which was not in play. I know it's nitpicky and usually I try to avoid that, but it kind of jumped out at me.
I’ll give them a pass on not coming up with a solution for Gray since they were pretty surprised that Gray was able to manifest himself on the dilithium planet and there were a few other things going on at the time. But they’ll get to a solution I’m sure...probably.
As for Discovery standing up to Starfleet, I guess Starfleet may have been trying to disable rather than destroy Discovery? That helped me accept it.
And I really liked the admiral. Not often do you hear about eating shit during high level diplomatic negotiations.
FWIW I believe that Osyrra's flagship was also there, which may have had superior tech to Federation ships at this point. Though it still seemed like the concentrated Federation fleet should have been able to take on two ships. Though the firing didn't go on for too long before Burnham negotiated a cease fire.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:14 pm
by $iljanus
I would have liked to have seen more scenes of the USS Nog kicking some ass.
And Ensign Tilly better get a promotion to lieutenant next season. She was a good acting captain. Also she was a great Mirror Universe captain. TERRA FIRMA! All hail Captain Killy!
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:39 pm
by hepcat
They did mention a few times how important the spore drive tech was, so it's not hard to accept that starfleet wanted to disable Discovery, not destroy her.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:53 pm
by El Guapo
hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:39 pm
They did mention a few times how important the spore drive tech was, so it's not hard to accept that starfleet wanted to disable Discovery, not destroy her.
I can't remember whether they've explained why it is that Stamets could develop spore drive tech back in the day, but no one else has been able to figure it out in the many centuries since?
hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:39 pm
They did mention a few times how important the spore drive tech was, so it's not hard to accept that starfleet wanted to disable Discovery, not destroy her.
I can't remember whether they've explained why it is that Stamets could develop spore drive tech back in the day, but no one else has been able to figure it out in the many centuries since?
All technology related to the spore drive was scrubbed from existence. And I’m sure the more “kinder, gentler” Section 31 dealt with any scientists who may stumble on spore technology by sending them...on a vacation to Risa! (where they would redact their memories using some illicit Romulan Tal Shiar tech)
hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:39 pm
They did mention a few times how important the spore drive tech was, so it's not hard to accept that starfleet wanted to disable Discovery, not destroy her.
I can't remember whether they've explained why it is that Stamets could develop spore drive tech back in the day, but no one else has been able to figure it out in the many centuries since?
Apart from removing all reference to it, it relies on the tartergrade that's gone extinct by the 32nd century, but which Stamets had the DNA of or something.
(Also, it negatively affected the tartergrades, so there was an environmental reason too, IIRC?)
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:50 pm
by rittchard
Not to beat a dead horse, but I'm pretty sure everyone involved was willing to destroy the Spore drive (and Discovery) rather than allow it to fall into Green Lady's hands (at least I figured if Tilly was then the rest of Starfleet should be too?). Also in the scene I'm remembering, it was when the flagship was still outside the shield bubble trying to fight its way in so essentially it was the bulk of Starfleet's core internal defenses/ships against Discovery. It's really not a big deal, and usually I'm much more lenient with this kind of thing, but the scene just stuck in my head for some reason.
Finally got around to watching the season 3 Discovery finale. Ultimately it was enjoyable, but after three seasons of highs, lows, and WTFs, it's evident it's definitely time to give up on this becoming the Trek we want.
There was so much going on in this one that felt disconnected or inconsequential, it really did remind me of the Kelvin movies. Pretty to look at, but ultimately hollow. I'm still confused by the action sequence that appeared to occur in the guts of the ship that we've never encountered before. What the hell? At first I thought it was a city from Tron. Why is there all this empty space, even if it's a future-time retrofit thing? I always thought turbolifts were glorified elevators humming around shafts. Unless I'm somehow confused and this was going on inside the larger Emerald Dream ship they were within or something.
Spoiler:
So Michael finally gets to be captain? For the sake of the show I'm fine with that, but... she doesn't deserve it in the least. "You did a bunch of reckless stuff but it all turned out OK, so I guess I was wrong about you!" Sure, that's Kirk in a nutshell. And it was always building to this. But I think it required at least a half season of sensical preparation. I'm happy with the way the Saru/Kelpien story concluded, but I'll be sad if he doesn't get to evolve as a captain, because he really did bring something new.
If they could spore jump from inside the Orion ship, why did they need to eject and detonate the warp core before they even knew if Book could pilot the thing?! I mean, other than narrative tension. But bloody hell.
I love cats and space cats, but I'm tired of hearing about Book's cat.
Re: [TV] New Star Trek Show in Development?
Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:12 pm
by hepcat
Sudy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:10 pm
Finally got around to watching the season 3 Discovery finale. Ultimately it was enjoyable, but after three seasons of highs, lows, and WTFs, it's evident it's definitely time to give up on this becoming the Trek we want.
I think it's done a decent job lately of trying to pass on that message of hope and sense of awe that Star Trek brought us in the days of yore.
Also, I think a lot of people who hate on this for not being the Star Trek they wanted have a blind spot for how truly awful some of it was in the days of yore.
When Next Gen came out, there were a lot of angry TOS fans who wanted another Kirk leading their show. But the times had changed. Now it’s a beloved entry in the franchise.
As I stated earlier, I’ve grown a bit tired of Michael at this point. I’d like to see more focus on Tilly and Seru. But the last episode’s twist on her career isn’t that far fetched in a franchise that once had Wesley Crusher piloting the Enterprise before his voice broke.
We’ll never get the Star Trek any of us want because we all loved it for different reasons in many ways. For me, it was the optimism and hope. And I think they’ve done a good job this last season of giving me that. So I’m quite happy with it as a Star Trek entry.
