Octopus Overlords

A voice of reason would be welcomed. Ziffel in 2020!

malchior wrote:I'm a little perplexed about how despite a direct hit by Maria the mangerine hasn't declared a disaster there yet. Does 100% of power have to be out for 2 days? The media has not really picked this up yet but it sure is curious.

It was declared September 20th. May have been after your post not sure. It's fun to rip on trump but we should at least stay factual.

Chrisoc13 wrote:

malchior wrote:I'm a little perplexed about how despite a direct hit by Maria the mangerine hasn't declared a disaster there yet. Does 100% of power have to be out for 2 days? The media has not really picked this up yet but it sure is curious.

It was declared September 20th. May have been after your post not sure. It's fun to rip on trump but we should at least stay factual.

It was after I posted (or at least announced to the public afterwards). It doesn't even really matter since they are retroactive and cover a time period.

Edit: Yep not announced until the morning after.

Chrisoc13 wrote:

malchior wrote:I'm a little perplexed about how despite a direct hit by Maria the mangerine hasn't declared a disaster there yet. Does 100% of power have to be out for 2 days? The media has not really picked this up yet but it sure is curious.

It was declared September 20th. May have been after your post not sure. It's fun to rip on trump but we should at least stay factual.

Honest to fuck, I hear this and think, won't someone tell this to Drumpf? Everyone else has to remain factual, but the president can shit all over facts in his daily rants, but who's holding him to the facts? Who is reminding the president that the real world exists outside his fantasy addled mind?

I hoped his new chief of staff would just stand beside him and slap him every time some random piece of nonsense exited his mouth, but that has not happened. Instead it looks like the CoS is going to have an aneurysm in the near future.

So I guess I say to anyone who tries to hold others to the truth when addressing Drumpf issues, that ship has sailed.

Anyone who voted for Drumpf, and continues to support Drumpf, has created this world where facts are secondary. The President is the problem, not some random inaccurate criticism of him. The president regularly uses lies in public to admonish and criticize. Complaining that occasionally criticism of Drumpf is not completely accurate is hilarious. Respect is earned. The president has earned the opposite. This is not based on his politics or party affiliation. It's based on him being a terrible human being.

Finally, I think we owe it to ourselves to be factual in the face of blatant, easily disproven lies. Our self respect HAS to be higher than the president's, because it's clear that he has none, and no respect for the American people either. But if, sometimes, things aren't completely factual, that's the world Drumpf has created and embraced. You reap what you sow.

It's not fun to rip on Drumpf. It's a freakin' nightmare.

All I've learned is that this country is full of a lot more shitty people than I ever realized. It's really been a depressing year. This guy is shitting all over the country and there's nothing we can do about it. AND the fucktard keeps on hanging out in my state. Someone give him a f'n map to where the WH is. GET OUT OF JERSEY YOU FN PIECE OF CRAP!

Octavious wrote:All I've learned is that this country is full of a lot more shitty people than I ever realized. It's really been a depressing year. This guy is shitting all over the country and there's nothing we can do about it. AND the fucktard keeps on hanging out in my state. Someone give him a f'n map to where the WH is. GET OUT OF JERSEY YOU FN PIECE OF CRAP!

Well, Mar a Lago will open for the season soon enough, and then he's back to clogging up traffic down there for months on end. So hang in there!

President Trump: NIMBY!

GreenGoo wrote:

Chrisoc13 wrote:

malchior wrote:I'm a little perplexed about how despite a direct hit by Maria the mangerine hasn't declared a disaster there yet. Does 100% of power have to be out for 2 days? The media has not really picked this up yet but it sure is curious.

It was declared September 20th. May have been after your post not sure. It's fun to rip on trump but we should at least stay factual.

Honest to fuck, I hear this and think, won't someone tell this to Drumpf? Everyone else has to remain factual, but the president can shit all over facts in his daily rants, but who's holding him to the facts? Who is reminding the president that the real world exists outside his fantasy addled mind?

I hoped his new chief of staff would just stand beside him and slap him every time some random piece of nonsense exited his mouth, but that has not happened. Instead it looks like the CoS is going to have an aneurysm in the near future.

So I guess I say to anyone who tries to hold others to the truth when addressing Drumpf issues, that ship has sailed.

Anyone who voted for Drumpf, and continues to support Drumpf, has created this world where facts are secondary. The President is the problem, not some random inaccurate criticism of him. The president regularly uses lies in public to admonish and criticize. Complaining that occasionally criticism of Drumpf is not completely accurate is hilarious. Respect is earned. The president has earned the opposite. This is not based on his politics or party affiliation. It's based on him being a terrible human being.

Finally, I think we owe it to ourselves to be factual in the face of blatant, easily disproven lies. Our self respect HAS to be higher than the president's, because it's clear that he has none, and no respect for the American people either. But if, sometimes, things aren't completely factual, that's the world Drumpf has created and embraced. You reap what you sow.

It's not fun to rip on Drumpf. It's a freakin' nightmare.

I don't understand the "he did it first" defense. It's not much of a rational defense.

We have to be better or his style wins, and I don't find that acceptable. Blurring the truth on both ends to me is making things worse not better.

It's not "he did it first".

It's the president of the united states of america has normalized this behaviour and millions of americans support it and many media organizations endorse it.

You understand that role of president is a leadership role, yes?

We owe it to ourselves and our personal sense of right and wrong to do the right thing, but it's hard to blame those who might fail in this area when the president of the ol' USofA is not only not trying but actively embracing a position where facts are irrelevant.

When the highest position in the country is filled with a man who has made an enemy of facts, I tend to give the average joe a break in this area. If 1/2 the country decides that nepotism, cronyism and corruption is a reasonable way to behave, I'll be more forgiving of that behaviour as well. After all, it's a reasonable way to run a country.

It's why bother double checking facts on meaningless forum criticism when the country's leadership ignores facts when implementing not meaningless, actively harmful policy.

We have a personal obligation to our own sense of honor and ethics, sure. The EXTERNAL pressure/guidance/leadership/whatever you want to call it has been significantly reduced because the country's leadership has no sense of personal obligation to the truth, and millions of fellow citizens see this as a positive, and some media prop it up.

Up until now we have seen leadership that at least attempts to maintain a pretense of fact based decision making and personal ethics, so when they fall down, we view it as human weakness or failure, something most people can understand and potentially forgive. Right now leadership has embraced their dishonesty unrepentantly.

In that environment, no man is an island.

That's a long description of "but he started it". Seriously. You can argue until you're blue in the face, you can write long paragraphs explaining how trump is to blame but it doesn't change that doing the same thing he is doing as a response is not OK. The ends don't justify the means. I don't accept it when trump does it and I don't accept it when those criticizing him do it. And I blame those who do it just like I blame trump when he does it.

Chrisoc13 wrote:That's a long description of "but he started it". Seriously. You can argue until you're blue in the face, you can write long paragraphs explaining how trump is to blame but it doesn't change that doing the same thing he is doing as a response is not OK. The ends don't justify the means. I don't accept it when trump does it and I don't accept it when those criticizing him do it. And I blame those who do it just like I blame trump when he does it.

Well, the difference here is that it was an honest mistake that was corrected where the standard response from the highest office in the land is to double down on an intentional fiction and maybe lie a bit to pad it for good measure.

It's less "he did it first" and more "the president says it's ok".

You can believe what you want and I'll do the same. In fact according to the president, whatever we believe is true, is.

Enjoy.

GreenGoo wrote:It's less "he did it first" and more "the president says it's ok".

You can believe what you want and I'll do the same. In fact according to the president, whatever we believe is true, is.

Enjoy.

so let's all embrace that ridiculous way of handling things. OK.

LawBeefaroni wrote:

Chrisoc13 wrote:That's a long description of "but he started it". Seriously. You can argue until you're blue in the face, you can write long paragraphs explaining how trump is to blame but it doesn't change that doing the same thing he is doing as a response is not OK. The ends don't justify the means. I don't accept it when trump does it and I don't accept it when those criticizing him do it. And I blame those who do it just like I blame trump when he does it.

Well, the difference here is that it was an honest mistake that was corrected where the standard response from the highest office in the land is to double down on an intentional fiction and maybe lie a bit to pad it for good measure.

Don't forget the Mangerine's go to justification that "everyone has been calling or writing to tell me I'm right!".

No one's calling you, no one's writing you, you orange scumbag. You're lying. Your followers are just too stupid to understand that.

Chrisoc13 wrote:

GreenGoo wrote:It's less "he did it first" and more "the president says it's ok".

You can believe what you want and I'll do the same. In fact according to the president, whatever we believe is true, is.

Enjoy.

so let's all embrace that ridiculous way of handling things. OK.

Embrace? He had a never before seen landslide electoral victory followed by the biggest inauguration ever. I'd say his way was embraced long before our little conversation.


You don't see the irony of demanding accurate criticism of a professional conman?

If we were putting him in jail, then yeah, I'd be right there beside you demanding due process.

A random internet forum criticism? Lol. What's the point?

Sure he eats babies, but not live babies. Let's stay factual.

He must be taking a massive dump. Strong Twitter game this morning.

GreenGoo wrote:

Chrisoc13 wrote:

GreenGoo wrote:It's less "he did it first" and more "the president says it's ok".

You can believe what you want and I'll do the same. In fact according to the president, whatever we believe is true, is.

Enjoy.

so let's all embrace that ridiculous way of handling things. OK.

Embrace? He had a never before seen landslide electoral victory followed by the biggest inauguration ever. I'd say his way was embraced long before our little conversation.


You don't see the irony of demanding accurate criticism of a professional conman?

If we were putting him in jail, then yeah, I'd be right there beside you demanding due process.

A random internet forum criticism? Lol. What's the point?

Sure he eats babies, but not live babies. Let's stay factual.

Green clearly my point is lost on you. I strongly disagree with your opinion on this matter, but there is clearly going to be no convincing you. No point furthering this discussion.

tjg_marantz wrote:He must be taking a massive dump. Strong Twitter game this morning.

Yeah he's on a roll today. I just don't even understand his thinking process. He literally is just an internet troll that was elected to office. Why even get involved with these sports issues? The NFL thing? Geez. So absurd. Now if this ends all champions of anything get a visit to the white house... I'm kind of ok with that since it seems a bit silly and dated. But he's such an embarrassment. He does everything in the most embarrassing fashion possible. It's almost like this morning he woke up, realized Mexico isn't going to be a particularly popular victim of trolling today and thought... well... people seems to like the NFL and NBA... I'll go after that.

He's been pissed at the NFL since they rebuffed his advances...

I know half of them are paid russian trolls but good golly reading the comments section on a story about the twitter NFL rant makes one lose all faith in humanity.

tjg_marantz wrote:He's been pissed at the NFL since they rebuffed his advances...

Absolutely true. Read up on his afl USFL(edit: This correction brought to you by the committee to ensure that Donald isn't inaccurately maligned) escapades.

Art of the Deal!

Chrisoc13 wrote: Green clearly my point is lost on you. I strongly disagree with your opinion on this matter, but there is clearly going to be no convincing you. No point furthering this discussion..

Chris, if you had any ability to read outside the literal meaning of the words I've written you would realize that I'm absolutely furious with the president (and his many supporters) for not agreeing with your opinion. In fact they shit all over the very idea of truth based criticism.

If I'm super mad at the president for making up shit, that probably means I don't think he's right nor do I think the average Joe should act similarly.

A president with so little regard for the truth should be removed from office even if he never commits a crime. Your entire system and way of life will disintegrate if attacking truths become the norm. That's how oppression succeeds in other parts of the world.

With that said, I do find demanding 100% accuracy in criticism for Drumpf to be hilariously ironic. So keep on keeping on.

It's like watching 2 guys argue about mars. One guy is talking about how he invaded the sectoid base in Cydonia and the other guy is talking about how the channels once held water.

You're right though, it's super important that we don't get carried away with our claims about the canals.

Black athletes calmly protesting unrestrained police violence = "sons of bitches"

White supremacists celebrating vehicular murder and assault = "some very good people"

Holman wrote:Black athletes calmly protesting unrestrained police violence = "sons of bitches"

White supremacists celebrating vehicular murder and assault = "some very good people"

He's not a great politician but he's a terrible human being.

Once again, I can't tell if Trump is indulging in baseless speculation or leaking classified information. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 9815702529

@realDonaldTrump wrote:Iran just test-fired a Ballistic Missile capable of reaching Israel.They are also working with North Korea.Not much of an agreement we have!

The older I get, the more all this insane, over-the-top jingoism just creeps me right the fuck out.

But I know it's red meat for the Trumpaloos, so I totally get why he's doing it.

GreenGoo wrote:With that said, I do find demanding 100% accuracy in criticism for Drumpf to be hilariously ironic. So keep on keeping on.

And the funny thing his is the inaccuracy in this case (and in many) is due to his poor communications. I could re-write my statement that kicked this little sub-thread off as 'I'm a little perplexed the President declared a disaster in Puerto Rico and didn't tell anyone until the next morning...'

That Iran missile launch appears legit after some quick Googling.

Does the nuclear treaty with Iran prohibit them from testing missiles?

pr0ner wrote:That Iran missile launch appears legit after some quick Googling.

The missile launch happened. I was commenting on the accusation that Iran is "working with" North Korea. I've seen no credible reporting on that, aside from reporting that Trump said it. It seems most probable that the claim is either bullshit, or it's derived from classified intelligence (hence the lack of prior reporting) that Trump shouldn't be vomitting forth on Twitter. If there is some credible information out there that there is current Iranian/North Korean collaboration in the nuclear or missile realms, I'd certainly be interested in reading it.

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:Does the nuclear treaty with Iran prohibit them from testing missiles?

My understanding is that they are prohibited from testing missiles that could be used to deliver nuclear warheads, which obviously leaves a grey area, but I'm not familiar with the technical parameters of the agreement. Most of the reactions I've seen from Western governments have been negative, but Iran claims that this was a test of a conventional/non-nuclear system and therefore doesn't violate the treaty. My gut instinct is that they pushed right up against the red line, in reaction to Trump's UN speech, but probably didn't actually violate the technical terms. Then again, I haven't yet seen any detailed analysis as to whether or not it is an actual violation, so I don't have an actual informed opinion.

http://www.thetower.org/5425-report-top ... e-program/

Senior officials in the United Kingdom’s Foreign Office believe that Iran has aided North Korea in the latter’s development of nuclear bombs that can be mounted onto ballistic missile The Sunday Telegraph reported.

It is not yet clear what kind of device was detonated in the latest North Korean nuclear test, which took place on September 3, but it appears from the size of blast that the weapon tested was between the second and third stages of developing the hydrogen bomb—the type of nuclear device with the most destructive power—The New York Times reported last week.

The Foreign Office, according to the Sunday Telegraph report, is attempting to ascertain if “current and former nuclear states” assisted the isolated Asian nation develop a more sophisticated weapon. Iran is considered the leading suspect, but Russia may have played a role.

According to the report, it is “not credible” that North Korea’s nuclear scientists achieved the accelerated advances in its nuclear program on their own.

“There is currently an investigation into exactly how the country has managed to make this leap in technological ability,” UK Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said recently. “We are looking at the possible role that may have been played, inadvertently or otherwise, by some current and former nuclear states.”

Max Peck wrote:

pr0ner wrote:That Iran missile launch appears legit after some quick Googling.

The missile launch happened. I was commenting on the accusation that Iran is "working with" North Korea. I've seen no credible reporting on that, aside from reporting that Trump said it.

I know I've heard reports on it in the past, and a quick search of google reveals:

A Closer Look at Iran and North Korea's Missile Cooperation

Are North Korea and Iran cooperating to build long-range weapons of mass destruction? An assessment

Iran and North Korea had been military partners (if not allies) since 1979. Iran shared technology with North Korea in the 1980s, that they had captured in the course of Iran-Iraq war. North Korea had acquired Soviet-era missile technology that they were sharing with Iran all through the 1990s. If Iran is sharing with DPRK whatever they have learned about developing a nuclear missile - it's neither new nor surprising.

gilraen wrote:Iran and North Korea had been military partners (if not allies) since 1979. Iran shared technology with North Korea in the 1980s, that they had captured in the course of Iran-Iraq war. North Korea had acquired Soviet-era missile technology that they were sharing with Iran all through the 1990s. If Iran is sharing with DPRK whatever they have learned about developing a nuclear missile - it's neither new nor surprising.

I knew about the past collaboration, but I hadn't seen anything about current, ongoing cooperation. Presumably if there is some substance to the allegation, we'll be seeing details as the pundits and analysts pick it apart.

GreenGoo wrote:

Holman wrote:Black athletes calmly protesting unrestrained police violence = "sons of bitches"

White supremacists celebrating vehicular murder and assault = "some very good people"

He's not a great politician but he's a terrible human being.

I wonder if he's gone too far this time. I mean, Russian meddling, graft and corruption, racism and sexism, war with NK...these things don't matter. But sportsball? Everybody's passionate about sportsball.

At least we now have hundreds of NFL players taking a knee.

Kraken wrote:

GreenGoo wrote:

Holman wrote:Black athletes calmly protesting unrestrained police violence = "sons of bitches"

White supremacists celebrating vehicular murder and assault = "some very good people"

He's not a great politician but he's a terrible human being.

I wonder if he's gone too far this time. I mean, Russian meddling, graft and corruption, racism and sexism, war with NK...these things don't matter. But sportsball? Everybody's passionate about sportsball.

Trump is a great leader; he just specializes in exploiting reverse psychology. For example, by threatening people if they do a thing, he motivates them to do the thing.

For example, today's sportsball matches are featuring a lot of things like this

and this


Hopefully he is not employing this particular highly effective strategy with North Korea and Iran.

Those football players really should stay out of politics and stick to commenting on things that affect them.* After all, they're not experts.

Leave the politics to the actual politicians. You know, the people who were elected specifically because they're not politicians, and instead are mediocre real estate developers who hosted reality TV shows and then started licensing out their names. Stick to what you know!

*Except they definitely shouldn't talk about head injuries caused by playing football. Just shut up and play the game.

Trump hates it when his minorities get uppity.

The immaculate exception!

There are hundreds of players who stood up for the anthem, what makes this guy so special? I'm sure he's a very popular "team"mate right now. Has he been bucking for a trade?

Do we need to remind everyone that Drumpf's foreign-born trophy wife had to explain to him how to stand for the national anthem correctly? While it was playing? This is the guy we're supposed to take guidance from on how to honor flag and country? He has no idea what makes the US worthy of honor.