The Former Trump Presidency Thread

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:32 pm

The Steelers player is a former US Army Ranger I believe. Shockingly, no one has any problem with him doing what he believes is right.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:01 pm

Sucks when you post an image you think is proving a point, only to find out it proves the other side is right.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:12 pm

hepcat wrote:Trump hates it when his minorities get uppity.

I keep thinking we're about 3 months away from him actually saying that on Twitter. Possibly sooner depending on how many players start actively doing it every week.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:33 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:The Steelers player is a former US Army Ranger I believe. Shockingly, no one has any problem with him doing what he believes is right.

My only problem is that for whatever reason (word is the team was ordered to "stay out of it") the entire team did something as a unit, except the one hold out. That may or may not cause issues within the team.

I feel bad for the individual who will be used by both "sides" to make hay, when all he wants (probably) is to stand at attention for his nation's anthem.

Hilariously he could have done just that if Drumpf had kept his mouth shut or the team owner didn't try to order his team to respond in a certain way. Other teams' left the choice to the individual and that seems to have worked out ok. Now the Steelers owner has to try to convince the public that it wasn't a protest, it was a "sit this one out". Good luck with that.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:39 pm

He wasn't the only player on the Steelers btw.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:45 pm

That could be. Trying to keep up on all the details of each individual circumstances is challenging. It was my understanding that the Steelers didn't come out of their dressing Room until after the anthem had played.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:50 pm

Speaking of team unity, the Broncos apparently (per the Twitters...) were blasting a song called Fuck Donald Trump before coming out of the locker room.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:52 pm

Apparently nobody explained to Trump that the players standing with linked arms are also protesting.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 5158402049

@realDonaldTrump wrote:Great solidarity for our National Anthem and for our Country. Standing with locked arms is good, kneeling is not acceptable. Bad ratings!

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:07 pm

I guarantee you that Villanueva coming out for the anthem will cause absolutely zero issues in that locker room. They understand his background and the sense of duty he feels personally from his service.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:09 pm

Football? Please. Real 'mericans support NASCAR - and I imagine Trump will be endorsing them soon enough.

Team owner Richard Petty, who won a record-tying seven championships as a driver, said he would fire any employee that didn't stand for the anthem.

“Anybody that don’t stand up for that ought to be out of the country. Period,” Petty said. “If they don’t appreciate where they’re at … what got them where they’re at? The United States.”

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:32 pm

Seattle Seahawks.

Where even the national anthem singer takes the knee.

Trent Steel · Post by **Trent Steel** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:24 pm

DJT wrote:Standing with locked arms is good, kneeling is not acceptable.

Jesus Christ. We really are living in Animal Farm.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:35 pm

Smoove_B wrote:Football? Please. Real 'mericans support NASCAR - and I imagine Trump will be endorsing them soon enough.

Team owner Richard Petty, who won a record-tying seven championships as a driver, said he would fire any employee that didn't stand for the anthem.

“Anybody that don’t stand up for that ought to be out of the country. Period,” Petty said. “If they don’t appreciate where they’re at … what got them where they’re at? The United States.”

Are there even minorities in NASCAR? I would think 9 out of 10 white supremacists are Team Petty and not fans of The Cavaliers.

BooTx · Post by **BooTx** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:57 pm

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:31 pm

GreenGoo wrote:That could be. Trying to keep up on all the details of each individual circumstances is challenging. It was my understanding that the Steelers didn't come out of their dressing Room until after the anthem had played.

The Steelers held a players only meeting Saturday night to vote on what to do. The vote was split between standing on the sidelines with arms locked or standing in the tunnel out of sight. Villanueva was at the meeting and spoke to the team. There was discussion about having him exempt from whatever the team decided to do, given his history.

The team narrowly voted to stand in the tunnel. They told Tomlin, who called Goodell to let him know.

Obviously Villanueva stood just outside the tunnel. Pictures show the rest of the team right behind him at the edge of the tunnel. As soon as the anthem was over they jogged out to the field as a team.

Villanueva avoided the locker room after the game when the media was in there. I would love to hear his thoughts on the team's decision. He has previously said he supported Kaepernick's message, but disagreed with his actions. I have to think he at least supported his teammates decision, even if he didn't agree with it. Otherwise he would have been on the sidelines with the coaches, and not off in the corner near his teammates.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:03 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:I guarantee you that Villanueva coming out for the anthem will cause absolutely zero issues in that locker room. They understand his background and the sense of duty he feels personally from his service.

Great.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:10 pm

msteelers wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:That could be. Trying to keep up on all the details of each individual circumstances is challenging. It was my understanding that the Steelers didn't come out of their dressing Room until after the anthem had played.
The Steelers held a players only meeting Saturday night to vote on what to do. The vote was split between standing on the sidelines with arms locked or standing in the tunnel out of sight. Villanueva was at the meeting and spoke to the team. There was discussion about having him exempt from whatever the team decided to do, given his history.

The team narrowly voted to stand in the tunnel. They told Tomlin, who called Goodell to let him know.

Obviously Villanueva stood just outside the tunnel. Pictures show the rest of the team right behind him at the edge of the tunnel. As soon as the anthem was over they jogged out to the field as a team.

Villanueva avoided the locker room after the game when the media was in there. I would love to hear his thoughts on the team's decision. He has previously said he supported Kaepernick's message, but disagreed with his actions. I have to think he at least supported his teammates decision, even if he didn't agree with it. Otherwise he would have been on the sidelines with the coaches, and not off in the corner near his teammates.

Great. This is all new information to me.

There were around 13 games today with approximately 50 players on each team, plus owners, coaches, alumni. It was a busy day for knee taking/not taking news. I fully admit that if I wanted to know Villanueva's story I could have started digging for it. I didn't and didn't. Thanks for explaining the specific circumstances of this particular player, sincerely.

It's completely shit of em2 to attempt to twist this one player's actions into some sort of alignment with Drumpf and/or anti-Kaepernick sentiment.

Geezus, your country is fucking doomed, and the em2's of the world will be the cause.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:23 pm

Welcome to America, where you're free to believe whatever you want as long as it aligns with straight white Christian values.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:32 pm

YellowKing wrote:Welcome to America, where you're free to believe whatever you want as long as it aligns with straight white Christian values.

YK, I don't like the sentiment expressed this way, because as we saw today, you ARE free to believe whatever you want.

Or were. So now you've got me thinking, Free Speech is free from government derived consequences speech. There is plenty of precedent where government influencing a private citizen to restrict another private citizen's speech is also a violation of free speech.

Here we have a president (you don't get any more governmental than that) calling for private citizens to fire other private citizens based on their speech.

I predict the aclu or someone similar will file a free speech lawsuit this week. I hope they win.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:55 am

Zaxxon wrote:Speaking of team unity, the Broncos apparently (per the Twitters...) were blasting a song called Fuck Donald Trump before coming out of the locker room.

YG - "FDT (feat. Nipsey Hussle)" but don't worry, i got ya

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:06 am

Puerto Rico is devastated but it's full of brownies so you get this instead.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:07 am

A little more about the Steelers. It looks like Villanueva surprised many of his teammates by standing outside. Apparently he told the team in their Saturday meeting that he didn't want to be singled out, which led to the team voting to stay in the tunnel.

Alejandro Villanueva's emergence from the Soldier Field tunnel during Sunday's national anthem surprised many members of the Pittsburgh Steelers, a source told ESPN.

Villanueva, a former Army Ranger who served terms in Afghanistan, was the lone Steeler to appear despite an expectation from Saturday's players-only meeting that the entire team would remain in the locker room, the source said.

The starting left tackle was a key figure in the team's protest planning because of his background. Players wanted to accommodate Villanueva, who expressed during their 30-minute session that he didn't want to be singled out, the source said. Moving the protest off the field entirely was a way to keep solidarity without isolating an individual.

"That's where the confusion came in," the source of the anthem sequence.

...

Teammates widely respect Villanueva for serving the country, and they made that clear Sunday.

"Al is a unique circumstance, what he's been through, some of the things he's talked about before," guard David DeCastro said of Villanueva's decision Sunday.

"I've got a lot of respect for Al. I wish there was a different way to do this thing. We've got some people who look at the national anthem as patriotism, soldiers, all the stuff that it means, and obviously, people are upset, and I understand that. I just wish both sides understand that they want the right thing, but doing it through the national anthem, I wish there was a different way."

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:07 am

GreenGoo wrote:I predict the aclu or someone similar will file a free speech lawsuit this week. I hope they win.

Only if there is action taken. Idiot in Chief is allowed to express his stupid racist views as much as anyone else is allowed to express their views. Until some person or organization acts on his words there is nothing to sue for.

On a side note, Kapernick lost all credibility to me when he admitted he did not even vote. If he wants to be a social activist then he needs to be one and not just an attention whore. I respect the players that choose to kneel as they have a valid point regarding equal treatment. That said, kneeling while avoiding voting or any other method of improving the situation is the equivalent of a 4 year old screaming "not fair" when told no in my eyes. You want change then you have to work for it and be more than a symbolic gesture and talk.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:17 am

The reaction of Trumpsters this morning has been funny. Seems pretty evenly split between being angry that the NFL and/or the players were "ruining" their Sunday by injecting football into politics, and furiously masturbating over the picture of Villanueva standing outside the tunnel.

No mention of Trump's comments anywhere, obviously.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:23 am

Remus West wrote:On a side note, Kapernick lost all credibility to me when he admitted he did not even vote.

I agree with this. I lost respect for Kaepernick because he didn't vote.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:01 am

It's just another example of Trump dividing people. That's what he does. He is very good at pitting tribe against tribe. Doesn't matter if it's Democrats vs Republican, white vs black, or fans vs players. Forget his lying, his narcissism, his incompetence - a complete inability to unite - in fact an active drive to divide Americans - is one of the most reprehensible characteristics a President could possibly have.

It's unfortunate that our division as a nation among politics, sexuality, race, and gender has led not to a collapse of that bubble and the election of a great uniter to save the day, but a doubling down on hatred. Instead of electing someone to fix the problem, Russia we elected someone to fan the flames.

My only hope is that it will take someone like Trump carrying us to the absolute bottom of the barrel before people wake up and realize this is not the country we want to leave for our kids.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:09 am

YellowKing wrote:It's just another example of Trump dividing people. That's what he does.

I found this Seth Abramson Tweeter thread to be surprisingly on-point. Sad!

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:33 am

He's using the office of the president (it no longer requires capitalization now, BTW) as a bully pulpit to try to influence a private organization. The NFL doesn't exist to venerate the National Anthem.

He can't tackle any actual challenges facing the nation so he creates new ones out of thin air.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:40 am

Remus West wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:I predict the aclu or someone similar will file a free speech lawsuit this week. I hope they win.
Only if there is action taken. Idiot in Chief is allowed to express his stupid racist views as much as anyone else is allowed to express their views. Until some person or organization acts on his words there is nothing to sue for.

That's not actually true. It gets hazy when there is no overt consequences to a government official chilling speech, but just as when Drumpf "hoped" the Russian inquiry would go away when he spoke to Comey, there is potentially room here to interpret the president's comments in the same way.

In any case, government employees are only free to express opinions during off hours when not specifically representing the government. Does anyone think that when Drumpf tweets, he's not doing so as the president of the US?

Sure, it would be a far easier case to make if Drumpf has said something like "fire those dudes or I'm something something something with the full authority of the federal government" and then made moves to actually do it. But the courts are very strict (or have been) on government chilling of speech. And if "fire those sombitches" isn't chilling, I don't know what is. The entire NFL took him seriously enough to specifically defy him. Maybe a court would, too.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:41 am

There is a sports bar here that decided today to no longer show NFL games until "the players stop disrespecting the flag and our country." Should make it a lot easier to get into on Sundays.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:42 am

stessier wrote:There is a sports bar here that decided today to no longer show NFL games until "the players stop disrespecting the flag and our country." Should make it a lot easier to get into on Sundays.

If you want to support that kind of behavior. They have every right to to make that decision. And I'm sure their customers will be more than willing to let them know if the market supports them in it.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:46 am

msteelers wrote:
Remus West wrote:On a side note, Kapernick lost all credibility to me when he admitted he did not even vote.
I agree with this. I lost respect for Kaepernick because he didn't vote.

If he feels that neither party has his best interests in mind, why on earth would he think voting was a way to effect meaningful change? I mean, WE have had conversations where the difference between parties is blurred until you can't tell the difference.

Is volunteering twice a week at a soup kitchen/homeless shelter a better or worse way to impact social change than pulling a lever? When you have a national audience, you don't think addressing that audience would have enormously more impact than anonymously writing someone's name down? If he voted and kept his mouth shut, would we even know who he is or what he thinks? Would the Drumpf have decided to criticize his voting habits? Would the entire NFL have defied Drumpf because of a lever that was pulled?

I've never heard such an asinine reason for dismissing a person out of hand.

Sure, yes, I completely agree that he should vote. Spoil your ballot at a minimum. But the idea that what he says is less than meaningless because he doesn't participate in the election process is bunk. If you haven't noticed, the election process seems to be experiencing some challenges that aren't going to be addressed with a larger turnout.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:47 am

stessier wrote:There is a sports bar here that decided today to no longer show NFL games until "the players stop disrespecting the flag and our country." Should make it a lot easier to get into on Sundays.

Yeah, especially once their revenue drops by 40%. It won't last. Fortunately for them it's a vague enough target so they can be back to showing games in a week or so.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:48 am

Isgrimnur wrote:
stessier wrote:There is a sports bar here that decided today to no longer show NFL games until "the players stop disrespecting the flag and our country." Should make it a lot easier to get into on Sundays.
If you want to support that kind of behavior. They have every right to to make that decision. And I'm sure their customers will be more than willing to let them know if the market supports them in it.

I would love to see a documentary on a town/customer base that is more interested in holding to it's principles than participating in the Sunday afternoon ritual of football and beer. That would make for interesting viewing, I would think. It seems, unpossible, almost.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:56 am

YellowKing wrote:It's just another example of Trump dividing people. That's what he does. He is very good at pitting tribe against tribe. Doesn't matter if it's Democrats vs Republican, white vs black, or fans vs players. Forget his lying, his narcissism, his incompetence - a complete inability to unite - in fact an active drive to divide Americans - is one of the most reprehensible characteristics a President could possibly have.

Thanks for writing that YK. It couldn't be more true or more infuriating. As an outsider looking it, watching Americans turn on each other because of this man who was elected to a position that is expected to lead America as a whole, is sickening.

And yes, I understand that divides would still exist without him. That doesn't give him a pass for taking a crowbar to them and pulling with all his might. In fact that makes his actions all the more reprehensible. I'm waiting for karma to do something horrible to him. More horrible than putting him in office, because he is clearly unhappy there. Just not unhappy enough, imo.

Default · Post by **Default** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:56 am

Can we change the title of the thread?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:08 am

GreenGoo wrote:The entire NFL took him seriously enough to specifically defy him.

Not the Bengals.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:11 am

Remus West wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:The entire NFL took him seriously enough to specifically defy him.
Not the Bengals.

Are they really an NFL team though?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:16 am

GreenGoo wrote:
msteelers wrote:
Remus West wrote:On a side note, Kapernick lost all credibility to me when he admitted he did not even vote.
I agree with this. I lost respect for Kaepernick because he didn't vote.
If he feels that neither party has his best interests in mind, why on earth would he think voting was a way to effect meaningful change? I mean, WE have had conversations where the difference between parties is blurred until you can't tell the difference.

Is volunteering twice a week at a soup kitchen/homeless shelter a better or worse way to impact social change than pulling a lever? When you have a national audience, you don't think addressing that audience would have enormously more impact than anonymously writing someone's name down? If he voted and kept his mouth shut, would we even know who he is or what he thinks? Would the Drumpf have decided to criticize his voting habits? Would the entire NFL have defied Drumpf because of a lever that was pulled?

I've never heard such an asinine reason for dismissing a person out of hand.

Sure, yes, I completely agree that he should vote. Spoil your ballot at a minimum. But the idea that what he says is less than meaningless because he doesn't participate in the election process is bunk. If you haven't noticed, the election process seems to be experiencing some challenges that aren't going to be addressed with a larger turnout.

If you speak of working to solve an issue but then decline to participate in the simplest manner I reserve the right to no longer respect you. I still respect the need for change - something I did well before he began kneeling - but I simply view his protest as meaningless grandstanding rather than any true effort to effect change. Removing yourself from participating in the nation does nothing to attempt to fix the challenges facing it.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:24 am

I guess we now know what the NFL tweets were trying to distract us from:

"Mr. Kushner uses his White House email address to conduct White House business," Lowell said in a statement. "Fewer than a hundred emails from January through August were either sent to or returned by Mr. Kushner to colleagues in the White House from his personal email account."

I'm sure it was all legit.