Story of the Chaos Order of the Dark Mages(WW)-Game Over

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:29 pm

About halfway through the read through. bb2112's reading pretty good. Kraegor's still an enigma, though doesn't seem all that suspicious. There's the Newcastle / Remus stuff that's been commented on...could be a Newcastle play to put suspicion on Remus of course. But what really strikes me about Remus is that there doesn't seem to be all that much effort to find wolves.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:37 pm

triggercut wrote:I won't be voting for theohall this turn, I don't think, barring something extraordinary. I could be persuaded to RMC, but for right now I'm unconvinced to move my vote.

I agree with this.

Which means, of course, that trig is actually a wolf.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:43 pm

Day 3
BB2112 ---------- Remus West --------
theohall ---------- kraegor -------- Remus West
kraegor ---------- --------
Remus West ---------- theohall --------
El Guapo ---------- Remus West --------
stessier ---------- Remus West --------
triggercut ---------- Remus West --------
RMC ---------- theohall --------
.
.
Remus West -3 ---------- bb2112, triggercut, El Guapo
theohall -2 ---------- Remus West, RMC
RMC -1 ---------- theohall
--------
---------
----------
----------
----------

Majority = 5

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:50 pm

Lassr wrote:Day 3
BB2112 ---------- Remus West --------
theohall ---------- kraegor -------- Remus West
kraegor ---------- --------
Remus West ---------- theohall --------
El Guapo ---------- Remus West --------
stessier ---------- Remus West --------
triggercut ---------- Remus West --------
RMC ---------- theohall --------
.
.
Remus West -3 ---------- bb2112, triggercut, Remus West
theohall -2 ---------- Remus West, RMC
RMC -1 ---------- theohall
--------
---------
----------
----------
----------

Majority = 5

That's an amazing trick Remus has pulled off, voting for two people at once. Though made slightly less impressive by the fact that one of them is himself.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:24 pm

Lassr wrote: Remus West -3 ---------- bb2112, triggercut, Remus West

Sweet

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:27 pm

this village has numbed my brain.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:30 pm

Remus West

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:03 pm

My gut tells me it is Theo and RMC, but I have next to nothing to base that on. I think I'm going to vote Remus.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:05 pm

Remus is Keyser Soze. He has many tricks.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:11 pm

stessier wrote:My gut tells me it is Theo and RMC, but I have next to nothing to base that on. I think I'm going to vote Remus.

I feel like if you think it's Theo and RMC, you should probably vote for Theo or RMC.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:39 pm

Day 3
BB2112 ---------- Remus West -------- --------
theohall ---------- kraegor -------- Remus West -------- RMC
kraegor ---------- Remus West -------- --------
Remus West ---------- theohall -------- --------
El Guapo ---------- Remus West -------- --------
stessier ---------- Remus West -------- --------
triggercut ---------- Remus West -------- --------
RMC ---------- theohall -------- --------
.
.
Remus West -4 ---------- bb2112, triggercut, El Guapo, kraegor
theohall -2 ---------- Remus West, RMC
RMC -1 ---------- theohall
--------
---------
----------
----------
----------

Majority = 5

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:52 pm

Remus West wrote:
Kraegor wrote:I've suggested lynching the card players. That idea is met has been met with silence and horror.
redrun

1. I think he is Evil
2. it will give us a read on whether he is telling the truth regarding what he got back from the card he claimed. Yes, Spartacus could still be out there but if we get it and someone announces they are using it and it turns up again after that then we know it wasn't used today. Other than that, we are going to be tossing every single piece of information we might gain based off the threat of a single card.

This is not logical. Or smart.

bb2112 wrote: RW: I've studied his play more than any other. He is a great player, hard to read, changes his style of play regularly, people will not vote for him even when he drives the lynch of an uncontested seer. I don't understand the power he has over the masses, but apparently it is hypnotizing. At the same time, he has made some strange assertions this game. I don't know if he is trying to draw a lynch this game by making some absurd conclusions, or if he is using the absurd conclusions to drive suspicion to others. Unfortunately, I've seen him do both. Since people don't want to do anything about him now, I guess he is a day 3 problem. If he is still alive, then he is probably evil. Either that, or he better have some good success in sniffing out evil.

It is day 3. He has not been very successful in hunting wolves. Day 1 kills CR. Day 2 votes NC when it is fairly obvious NC is going down. Isn't the reason why people shy away from voting RW because he is so good at sniffing out wolves? Who has he lead a train on? A proven good guy in RR, killing vote of CR, and now Theo. 2 out of 3 misses so far, and we don't know about Theo for sure yet.

redrun wrote: If Newcastle comes up evil it adds a slight bit of weight to my belief that Remus is evil.

Newcastle

Found this nugget.

RMC wrote:
Remus West wrote:
RMC wrote:
Again, I don't have an important card, and I used it to talk to El Guapo, he can confirm that we PM'd each other, so that should confirm my card.
He can confirm your card but not why you used it. Although with 5 uses it likely won't get used up it still begs the question of why you'd waste a use the Seer may need/want later. Seems like an odd move.

Of the "silent" folks right now I'd list redrun, Bubbles, Kraegor, and RMC as the most odd. redrun has dropped off the planet it seems. Bubbles turns up every time his name is mentioned. Kraegor hasn't made anyone cry yet and if I hadn't been so thrilled to see him back I'd have forgotten he was playing. RMC was very quiet and made a weird use of a card.
Why odd? It's a card that let's me PM. Why would the seer use the card, it worked out so well last game for the seer to PM people, I mean it only ended with him being killed the next night.

Side's it's a new mechanic, why not use it. The people with the scanning cards used them, and not on people who it would have been nice, like maybe...you?

Exactly RMC. Why wouldn't someone use the card. Saving it for the seer is silly. I also like the fact that Remus called out redrun, Bubbles, Kraegor, and RMC. If Remus is evil (and I think he is) I bet one of our wolves is in this list.

redrun wrote: Previously, Mr. Remus West had informed us:
Remus West wrote:He can confirm your card but not why you used it. Although with 5 uses it likely won't get used up it still begs the question of why you'd waste a use the Seer may need/want later. Seems like an odd move.
13 players. Under normal conditions one dies during the day, one dies during the night.
Day one crapshoot, where folks attempt to learn whatever they can about the other folks playing.
He shouldn't have used 1/5 of a card to try to gain a bit of information in hopes that on the last turn of the game the seer gets the card?

Is it clear now what BB2112 was talking about?

Redrun suspicious of Remus. Calls Remus on being silly.

bb2112 wrote:
Seriously?! It is day 1 and RR is the best choice? I see that Q and Trig are playing with some sense, but the rest of you guys? Are you trying to lay some kind of trap? If so, can we stop and analyze now? If not, this is the kind of thinking that got an uncontested seer lynched. And it is being led by the same guy. Does anyone know the definition of insanity?

I am not blind to the possibility of RR being a wolf, but come on, we at least have some info on him. We just need a day or 2 to prove him either through scan or a night death. Why are we proposing to do the wolves job for them?

Remus West wrote: Saying we have "information" from redrun is stupid. Your statement comparing it to lynching an uncontested Seer is also stupid. Even if he is telling the truth he doesn't get to use the same card every day. It is a one shot deal. Lynching the Seer is silly because of the potential for future return. This is not even close to the same thing.

Is Remus really this stupid? I think not. He knows I was saying the thought process was the same, not that I thought lynching Redrun was like lynching a seer. Just that the logic is wrong. Remus went on to argue this. Why? Because he is trying to muddy the waters. Honest guys, he is not this dumb!

Chaosraven wrote: I believe the Bad Guys to be in:

Newcastle
Remus West
stessier
Mr. Bubbles

Chaosraven is pretty good at this game. He nailed NC, called out Mr. Bubbles for acting like a special. Nailed at least 2 of our 4 specials in the game. Think he may be on to something? I do.

bb2112 wrote:Why? What have I said that is not true? What have you done but bring suspicion on yourself?

Did you, or did you not, go after RR? Q, myself, and others, all told you to focus elsewhere for day one. You stubbornly refused. Not a good team villager move. Great Evil Mage move.

Did RR, or did he not, basically hand us NC?

Did NC, or did he not, refuse to vote for you day 1?

Who was the idiot that dropped the last vote on CR before El G got to use the deadline card?

You had a lot of time to jump on the NC train, but chose to do it very late when there was basically no hope that NC was going to live.

At this point I feel the same way about you that I did NC. You are a distraction and the village is better off without your "help."

I'm tired and trying to do this with kids and wife constantly interrupting is not helping. I know I have a few things out of order in my quotes, but I don't think that matters too much. It all paints a story of RW trying to obsfuscate facts, making decisions not favorable to the village, my reasons for voting the way I am, and several provens all being suspicious of him. And I didn't even gather everything (like where Q and Trig were trying to reason with him). After this he has said that I'm full of crap and has offered no real further insight except going after Theo. Which in my mind is not all that different than when he went after redrun earlier. It seems to me like he is trying to clear the field of the semi provens instead of actually hunting wolves. While I'm not clearing Theo 100% (especially with his odd voting patterns), but of the 2, I like the Remus lynch way better. And I also enjoyed the little interaction between RW and NC on page 9 btw.

You guys can do what you want, but I'm not moving my vote. If RW comes back guilty, then yay. If he comes back innocent, then I will have to relook at everything and I have a couple people in mind that I would like to look at closer. Right now, I cannot think of a more deserving lynch. Good night.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:02 pm

Sorry, not page 9, page 11. Now really, good night all. It has been a brutal week, and I am looking forward to sleeping in tomorrow to 7am when one of my kids jumps on me while I'm sound asleep.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:27 pm

Remus West

.

Can we end this nonsense and prove the adage true? The only Good Remus West is a Dead Remus West

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:28 pm

theohall wrote: Remus West

.

Can we end this nonsense and prove the adage true? The only Good Remus West is a Dead Remus West

Oh wait. I just did finally lynch Remus West.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:30 pm

Day 3
BB2112 ---------- Remus West -------- --------
theohall ---------- kraegor -------- Remus West -------- RMC -------- Remus West
kraegor ---------- Remus West -------- --------
Remus West ---------- theohall -------- --------
El Guapo ---------- Remus West -------- --------
stessier ---------- Remus West -------- --------
triggercut ---------- Remus West -------- --------
RMC ---------- theohall -------- --------
.
.
Remus West -5 ---------- bb2112, triggercut, El Guapo, kraegor, theohall
theohall -2 ---------- Remus West, RMC
----------
--------
---------
----------
----------
----------

Majority = 5 Voting Closed

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:44 pm

As the day dragged on the villagers could have sworn someone cast a “hours could seem like days” spell.

Remus West had grown bored with the happenings around the town square and had ventured off to play tag with a few village children. “Tag your it.” Shouted Remus as he started running in the opposite direction of the child he just tagged.

At that time Theohall decided to cast the final vote. “Remus West.”

A bolt of energy shot from the stone and struck Remus West In the back. He fell face first into the grass. Stessier snickered, “Tag you’re it, Remus.”
A dark mass swirled above his body and then dissipated. RMC turned to face the villagers that had voted for Remus West, “I’ll be damned, he was a Dark Mage.”

“One to go.” El Guapo said as he turned to head to his hut.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:18 am

YES!!!!!!! So it is true. The only good Remus West IS a dead Remus West.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:59 am

Just got in...and yep, that's a dead-ass WolfRemus.

I think we win this tomorrow, regardless of card draws.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:33 am

OMG! Finally!

Please examine Kraegor today. I had doubts about him before, but after my reread yesterday, they have solidified. I'm not as certain of him as I was Remus, but his play has been just about as goofy.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:57 am

And to think I was going to come in here and rethink my vote again. Hurray for procrastination!

bb2112 wrote:OMG! Finally!

Please examine Kraegor today. I had doubts about him before, but after my reread yesterday, they have solidified. I'm not as certain of him as I was Remus, but his play has been just about as goofy.

Can you explain "goofy"? He's actually felt a lot like old kraegor - a little more quiet, but otherwise all the pieces fit.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:58 am

I think RMC is a strong contender as well. Being convinced not to vote Remus based on odds is...odd.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:06 am

stessier wrote:
Can you explain "goofy"? He's actually felt a lot like old kraegor - a little more quiet, but otherwise all the pieces fit.

I don't know Kraegor of old, this is my first experience with him.

1. "Goofy" in this context is he also has been pushing to lynch Theo and RR to prove Q and myself. He also was a big proponent of doing this on day one when we didn't really know anything yet.

2. After Theo semi proved me, he then wanted me to use the "Told ya so" card on day one. Why not use it on someone that is 0% proven instead of a semi proven.

3. He also has not lead any charges against wolves, but has joined votes late for both NC and Remus. Like he is trying to hide on the train when it is too late.

4. Remus named him as a someone he doesn't trust (see my Remus rant before Remus gets whacked). Remus likes to do this to throw off suspicion if he or his team mate gets killed.

If I dig, I could probably come up with some more, but his actions were pretty similar to RW's. Now this Kraegor may be someone that is mired in bad thinking, or dazzled by Remus (which seems to be the case with a lot of people), but his conclusions have just been a little off all game. At least to me.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:10 am

stessier wrote:And to think I was going to come in here and rethink my vote again. Hurray for procrastination!

And why are you so happy about your procrastination? You weren't on the RW train. As a matter of fact, you were not on any train. Who were you going to vote?

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:24 am

Of course you can find more. I play against the kool-aid drinkers not with them. Being buddies with everyone reveals nothing.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:07 am

Kraegor wrote: Of course you can find more. I play against the kool-aid drinkers not with them. Being buddies with everyone reveals nothing.

See what I mean by being off?

Kraegor, who says you have to be buddies? Your only job as a villager is to hunt and kill wolves. I have probably played my most confrontational game ever. I insulted Trig, exchanged name calling with Remus, told NC the village was better off without him whether he was good or evil, even helped egg NC on to a self vote, have been critical of Theo's weird vote switches, and have been anything but complimentary of your play. Thinking about it, I kind have been a dick. But I can at least hold my head up and say that I have helped the village.

Your job as a wolf is to sow confusion and to kill off villagers. Regardless of your very late votes on our 2 wolves, I think your posts have landed you firmly in this camp.

Again, it is like Kraegor would rather skew the truth and muddy the waters than be part of the solution. At least this is what it looks like to me.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:24 am

And what truth's have I skewed? And why are you fishing at night?

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:31 am

Why not fish at night? I don't think I'm going to be here tomorrow. You, however, will definitely be here.

And the truth you are currently skewing, that your not being buddies is actually helping. How about helping find wolves to actually help.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:46 am

That doesn't make sense. The premise you outline is not a skewed truth. That is merely you disagreeing with my playstyle. Did I not get Newcastle and Remus talking? I could have voted to kill both at N-1. I chose instead a more conversant route. Sure there's lies and inuendo in their posts. It is still better than nothing at all. That your truth does not agree with mine is also not a twisting of the truth. Unless you consider yourself the sole arbitor of truth? Are you the one? Can you see the matrix?

Of course I'll be alive, I'm a prime lynch target. You've played this game before, right?

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:07 pm

I disagree with your plays, not your playing style. And I have played this game once or twice. So why would you ask a stupid question on why I am fishing at night then make fun of me when I answer?

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:13 pm

Btw, the last question was about your play style. Do you understand the difference now?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:42 pm

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:36 pm

If I were bb2112 I would be fishing at night, too, considering he is semi-proven while no one else is proven at all which makes him a really big wolf target.

Note to bb2112 on Kraegor - no one bedazzles him. He usually does his best to make someone cry which does not seem to have happened this game.

I am still solidly in the test RMC camp given his very questionable Day Two play and refusals to vote for both Newcastle and Remus West after Day One.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:40 pm

I don't think RMC is a bad choice, but I do believe Kraegor would be a better one. You can always test RMC the next day if Kraegor doesn't pan out. Just my 2 pennies.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:00 am

Day 4
The few remaining villagers gather around the square and it was quite obvious who was missing. BB2112 and El Guapo had not shown up yet. Two deaths? That’s just not possible. Isn’t that against the rules or something.

A few minutes later BB2112 walks around the corner and into the village center. “I stopped by El Guapo’s to pick up a piñata to celebrate when we kill the last Dark Mage. El Guapo was dead. But I did grab this rooster piñata though.”

Triggercut admires the craft work of the rooster. “What are you going to fill it with?”

“I don’t know yet.” Stessier touches the piñata. “Nice.”

“Uh guys, El Guapo is dead. Does that not bother you?” kraegor says through clinched teeth.

“Oh yeah. We need to vote.”

BB2112 ----------
theohall ----------
kraegor ----------
stessier --------
triggercut ---------
RMC
.
. ----------
----------
----------
--------
---------

Majority = 4

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:19 am

Time to wait and see how the wolf tries to mislead us after not killing bb2112.

Or we could just start voting....

RMC............

stessier.........

Kraegor......

triggercut...

1) My gut says RMC. Day Two play along with not voting for Remus West or Newcastle outside of his Day One play.
2) The significantly small voting record and wall of posts say stessier. Day One - voted for Mr Bubbles, RMC, redrun, Mr Bubbles, and was N-1 on Chaosraven. Day Two - N-1 on Newcastle. Day Three - voted Remus West and withdrew without voting again. His positioning on the vote trains being right next to the Remus West votes when the lynches happened looks really suspicious. stessier, however, missed most of Saturday during the deadline discussion which led to Newcastle's lynch. This gives him some leeway.
3) Kraegor - Two things bug me about Kraegor. 1) Day One when he wanted us to prove semi-proven villagers by attempting to lynch them, instead of finding wolves. 2) His reaction to my Day Two vote and his "late" vote on Newcastle which didn't count. Yes, I was wrong, but his response to my actions seemed off. Why was he so concerned I pull one little vote on him? How was one vote on him "risking the village" when the majority was 6? Where was his vote at that point? That's right. He never voted at all until after the lynching vote, but he seemed certain I was putting the village at risk. Ignoring my strange action would have garnered less suspicion on my part. His votes being early in a train, not counting, and late in a train is a good way to hide as a wolf.
4) The weird kill says triggercut. But voting record does not support this at all. It just seems like something he might do to throw us off, but he would more likely have killed bb2112 to force all of us being subject to investigation. triggercut, however, has been the second vote on every lynch, which should clear him. I know. Some suspicious types might claim this would be a sneaky wolf abusing his teammates to garner our trust. Heck, I have done it with success. Believe he is a villager, though.

Doing some re-reads.... I noticed Newcastle trying to point to triggercut and bb2112 as wolves. Newcastle was lobbying hard for us to believe bb2112 had played a Spartacus card on Day One. Why? This was from Wolfcastle just prior to being lynched. So bb2112 is doubly cleared in my book via the Free Scan and a wolf trying to get us to believe bb2112 was being dishonest.

So I distrust three folks right now.... Kraegor, stessier, and RMC. The fact the wolf let me live makes me doubt the wolf is RMC. This puts the focus for me on Kraegor and stessier.

Leaning heavily toward's bb2112's suggestion based on re-reading, but it kind of bugs me. Seems like the wolf wants us to kill RMC or Kraegor which would mean the wolf is stessier or triggercut. I am not buying it being triggercut, which leaves stessier.

That's my late night analysis. Feel free to destroy it. Don't worry, Kraegor. You won't make me cry.

And now my head hurts.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:00 am

Man, I suck. I was tricked by both wolves. I didn't think Newcastle or Remus were wolves.

And I got a worthless card, which I will tell you the results of, after Lassr gives me the answer.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:31 am

Anybody have a talk with dead card that they have already played that we need to know about? I do not, unfortunately.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:34 am

bb2112 wrote:
stessier wrote:And to think I was going to come in here and rethink my vote again. Hurray for procrastination!
And why are you so happy about your procrastination? You weren't on the RW train. As a matter of fact, you were not on any train. Who were you going to vote?

I would still like an answer to this question, if you don't mind.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:43 am

triggercut wrote:Just got in...and yep, that's a dead-ass WolfRemus.

I think we win this tomorrow, regardless of card draws.