Octopus Overlords

FB actually advertised something to me that piqued my curiosity.

Mechs, meeples, roborally...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/co ... -combat-he

Lordnine wrote:My copy of Western Legends just arrived. Have been hearing pretty good things about the gameplay and looking forward to playing it... But opening my copy I was struck by how cheaply made it feels.

So a question for all of you if you will humor me. As many of you know, I designed a board game and it will hopefully be arriving for KS backers by December. I spent a lot of money making sure the whole experience felt really high-quality. The cardboard tokens in DinoGenics are twice as thick as those in WL and the player boards (thanks to being double layered) are about 6 times as thick as the ones in WL.

I did this because component quality is really important to me but I’m curious how everyone else feels about it. Would you be happy to receive a game with lesser components if it was cheaper or do you prefer to pay for the luxury items?

My main preference is gameplay obviously. If I love a game I'll get over poor components to a degree. I love splotter games and they have less than perfect components but the games are fantastic so they're worth it for me. But because I love them so much I've spent as much as the games themselves upgrading them in some instances. I'm willing to spend money on luxury components because if the game is good then it's worth it.

But games that I perceive to skate by on components alone are no good. If you took the good components and changed them out for budget components do you still have a good game? If not it's not worth keeping for me. For me this is where scythe and outlive fall. Beautiful games that I simply don't enjoy playing.

I can be really disappointed getting a great game and having crappy components though. My favorite is fantastic components with a game I love to play. Yokohama deluxe edition is a great example for me of a game that accomplished this. I'll be honest when I'm looking at them on the shelf if two games are equally fun to play and one has higher quality components I'm more likely to bring it to the table.

So it's not my first concern, but games I love to play with excellent components are the best. I get annoyed with cheap components but I get even more annoyed with games that aren't fun to play.

Also I don't like ridiculously overproduced games for no reason (looking at you Santorini). All of this is my own opinion so... Take it with a grain of salt.

Fishbelly wrote: Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:37 pm

hepcat wrote: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:31 am As I enter my sixth week of waiting for all my Undertow/Too Many Bones stuff to ship out to me, while still hearing that it may be up to a month more of waiting (I'm hoping they learn a valuable lesson on this and realize that saving a few bucks and pissing off a bunch of your customers isn't a good trade off), I saw that Pax Pamir is getting a second edition.

I'm still a big Chip Theory Games fan, but I admit to slowly succumbing to the numbing pain that comes from seeing SO many posts about Too Many Bones Undertow owners at BGG and other places. This is my third straight kickstarter with their company, and I've been on the tail end of every single shipment. I know it's pure coincidence, but at this point I just wanna play my damnable game!

Supposedly they're hoping to finish up with US shipping by end of next week (they also leave in a caveat that that depends on how things go that week). I still haven't received my shipping notice. We're nearing two months of waiting simply for shipping, so I'm still annoyed.

Supposedly they're hoping to finish up with US shipping by end of next week (they also leave in a caveat that that depends on how things go that week). I still haven't received my shipping notice. We're nearing two months of waiting simply for shipping, so I'm still annoyed.

Hopefully you'll receive your notice soon. I feel a tad guilty, but I must confess that I just received my shipping notification earlier (my students were wondering why I was dancing behind my desk like a damned fool ).

No need to feel guilty, that’s good news! Have fun with it!

Lordnine wrote:My copy of Western Legends just arrived. Have been hearing pretty good things about the gameplay and looking forward to playing it... But opening my copy I was struck by how cheaply made it feels.

So a question for all of you if you will humor me. As many of you know, I designed a board game and it will hopefully be arriving for KS backers by December. I spent a lot of money making sure the whole experience felt really high-quality. The cardboard tokens in DinoGenics are twice as thick as those in WL and the player boards (thanks to being double layered) are about 6 times as thick as the ones in WL.

I did this because component quality is really important to me but I’m curious how everyone else feels about it. Would you be happy to receive a game with lesser components if it was cheaper or do you prefer to pay for the luxury items?

Hey Lordnine...do you remember if the cards for the game arrived in a bag, or if they were separated out at all?

I opened my box up when it arrived, pulled out the rules and a couple of the components (like the game board and the player boards) and now a couple days later when I go to put it all together I can’t find any cards. The only cards I can find are the ones from the add-ons. Thoughts?

hentzau wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:53 pm

Lordnine wrote:My copy of Western Legends just arrived. Have been hearing pretty good things about the gameplay and looking forward to playing it... But opening my copy I was struck by how cheaply made it feels.

So a question for all of you if you will humor me. As many of you know, I designed a board game and it will hopefully be arriving for KS backers by December. I spent a lot of money making sure the whole experience felt really high-quality. The cardboard tokens in DinoGenics are twice as thick as those in WL and the player boards (thanks to being double layered) are about 6 times as thick as the ones in WL.

I did this because component quality is really important to me but I’m curious how everyone else feels about it. Would you be happy to receive a game with lesser components if it was cheaper or do you prefer to pay for the luxury items?

Hey Lordnine...do you remember if the cards for the game arrived in a bag, or if they were separated out at all?

I opened my box up when it arrived, pulled out the rules and a couple of the components (like the game board and the player boards) and now a couple days later when I go to put it all together I can’t find any cards. The only cards I can find are the ones from the add-ons. Thoughts?

Looks like you should have had several bundles of cards. Jump to ~3:30 of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5PCwjFt5Vo. He breaks into them at ~8 min.

hepcat wrote: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:58 am Anywho...

Just backed the 2nd edition of Machina Arcana on kickstarter. A steampunk/Lovecraft mashup in the form of a dungeon crawl, I was rather miffed I missed it the first time around. So I had to back it in spite of my claims of slowing down my kickstarter habit.

Forgot to come back here and thank you for breaking MY own claims of slowing down my Kickstarter habit after I backed this as well. I need to stay out of this topic.

hentzau wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:53 pm
Hey Lordnine...do you remember if the cards for the game arrived in a bag, or if they were separated out at all?

I opened my box up when it arrived, pulled out the rules and a couple of the components (like the game board and the player boards) and now a couple days later when I go to put it all together I can’t find any cards. The only cards I can find are the ones from the add-ons. Thoughts?

Look under the cardboard insert. Mine were all there.

MonkeyFinger wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:16 pm

hepcat wrote: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:58 am Anywho...

Just backed the 2nd edition of Machina Arcana on kickstarter. A steampunk/Lovecraft mashup in the form of a dungeon crawl, I was rather miffed I missed it the first time around. So I had to back it in spite of my claims of slowing down my kickstarter habit.

Forgot to come back here and thank you for breaking MY own claims of slowing down my Kickstarter habit after I backed this as well. I need to stay out of this topic.

I like that they went with standees instead of miniatures, thus making it less painful than the 150 bucks I imagine it would be otherwise.

hepcat wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:41 pm

MonkeyFinger wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:16 pm

hepcat wrote: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:58 am Anywho...

Just backed the 2nd edition of Machina Arcana on kickstarter. A steampunk/Lovecraft mashup in the form of a dungeon crawl, I was rather miffed I missed it the first time around. So I had to back it in spite of my claims of slowing down my kickstarter habit.

Forgot to come back here and thank you for breaking MY own claims of slowing down my Kickstarter habit after I backed this as well. I need to stay out of this topic.

I like that they went with standees instead of miniatures, thus making it less painful than the 150 bucks I imagine it would be otherwise.

I refuse to listen to any of this (though I agree on the standees). Lalalalalalalalalalalala...

(There is a slight chance that I'll miss the email reminder that I set up and end up not backing.)

Lordnine wrote:

hentzau wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:53 pm
Hey Lordnine...do you remember if the cards for the game arrived in a bag, or if they were separated out at all?

I opened my box up when it arrived, pulled out the rules and a couple of the components (like the game board and the player boards) and now a couple days later when I go to put it all together I can’t find any cards. The only cards I can find are the ones from the add-ons. Thoughts?

Look under the cardboard insert. Mine were all there.

Yep. That’s where they are. Thanks.

So a question for all of you if you will humor me. As many of you know, I designed a board game and it will hopefully be arriving for KS backers by December. I spent a lot of money making sure the whole experience felt really high-quality. The cardboard tokens in DinoGenics are twice as thick as those in WL and the player boards (thanks to being double layered) are about 6 times as thick as the ones in WL.

I did this because component quality is really important to me but I’m curious how everyone else feels about it. Would you be happy to receive a game with lesser components if it was cheaper or do you prefer to pay for the luxury items?

I like to get what I pay for. When I am paying $50+ for a board game nowadays, cheap components annoy me, though not cheap components don't often impress me. See Asmodee as a publisher will turn me off to a game. FFG, while including tons of bits don't have great quality control either and I ask myself if the price is worth content before I buy.

OtOH, IIRC, you are going to, for instance, make the game boards, two layered cardboard, so tokens fit in to slots. That's component upgrade I would notice, appreciate, and applaud. I love me some Terraforming Mars, but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay to a third party to make a better storage a playing solution for the myriad of bits. Whereas, I would have been very happy if the packaging was designed to hold the bits and placemats inherently help them in place.

I don't know if they warrant your cost, but taking the time to do things that make sense are perceived by me as being "component quality".

Thicker cardboard I won't care about. Having the decal peel away from the cardboard or the cardboard peel away from the cardboard? I care about immensely. Using Vinyl over plastic? Means nothing to me. Getting a bunch of figures I have to warp so they stand up and then warp again. That will set me off.

This stuff, is pleasant surprises, which makes me send kudos:



And it's the stuff Zarathud and Hepcat and company always go out an pay third parties for.

To me, games are investments. I invest in games I can play for years. It's the only way I can justify the cost (and why I don't play 'legacy' games.) Games which fall apart, where the cost doesn't match the quality, or where I'm paranoid to handle it because of the flimsiness of the components are a big problem for me. I've demoed games that had good gameplay and a theme I liked that I walked away from without a second thought because the tiles felt flimsy and were warped as a result. Theme, as I've mentioned elsewhere, is a big draw for me, too. Poor quality components can detract from the theme.

Now, if a game maker, especially a new game maker, produces a product that's particularly high quality without having a FFG pricetag, then I'm much more likely to buy their next product, too.

LordMortis wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:43 pm
I like to get what I pay for. When I am paying $50+ for a board game nowadays, cheap components annoy me, though not cheap components don't often impress me. See Asmodee as a publisher will turn me off to a game. FFG, while including tons of bits don't have great quality control either and I ask myself if the price is worth content before I buy.

OtOH, IIRC, you are going to, for instance, make the game boards, two layered cardboard, so tokens fit in to slots. That's component upgrade I would notice, appreciate, and applaud. I love me some Terraforming Mars, but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay to a third party to make a better storage a playing solution for the myriad of bits. Whereas, I would have been very happy if the packaging was designed to hold the bits and placemats inherently help them in place.

I don't know if they warrant your cost, but taking the time to do things that make sense are perceived by me as being "component quality".

Thicker cardboard I won't care about. Having the decal peel away from the cardboard or the cardboard peel away from the cardboard? I care about immensely. Using Vinyl over plastic? Means nothing to me. Getting a bunch of figures I have to warp so they stand up and then warp again. That will set me off.

This stuff, is pleasant surprises, which makes me send kudos:

IMG

And it's the stuff Zarathud and Hepcat and company always go out an pay third parties for.

Havent seen that image in a while. That was a 3D render but we did get the PPC copy a couple weeks ago.


Not exactly the same but pretty great.

Anyways, I was mostly just taken back by WL and then I saw some people defending its quality I was just confused. It was a $75 game from an established company with much worst quality than my $54 game.
Having dealt extensively with production costs now I know that the components they skimped on would have only increased their cost by a few dollars per unit. It just comes down to how much people care that they are not getting as much for their money.

Kickstarter backers are weird. They'll feel invested and defend you against legit complaints, but then turn on you over perceived slights. It's a club-like carnival of rabid wolverines.

LordMortis wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:43 pm
And it's the stuff Zarathud and Hepcat and company always go out an pay third parties for.

Zarathud, yes. Me, not so much.

hepcat wrote:

LordMortis wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:43 pm
And it's the stuff Zarathud and Hepcat and company always go out an pay third parties for.

Zarathud, yes. Me, not so much.

I waste copious amounts of money on upgrades. Like a ton.

Chrisoc13 wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:23 pm

hepcat wrote:

LordMortis wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:43 pm
And it's the stuff Zarathud and Hepcat and company always go out an pay third parties for.

Zarathud, yes. Me, not so much.

I waste copious amounts of money on upgrades. Like a ton.

When I search Broken Token, OO reveals one thing from hepcat. LIES!!!!!

Meeples? Yes. Organizers? Yes, they speed up gameplay and setup. And let me store in fewer boxes.

I have my limits. Metal coins? No. Miniatures instead of Meeples? No.

LordMortis wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:52 am

Chrisoc13 wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:23 pm

hepcat wrote:

LordMortis wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:43 pm
And it's the stuff Zarathud and Hepcat and company always go out an pay third parties for.

Zarathud, yes. Me, not so much.

I waste copious amounts of money on upgrades. Like a ton.

When I search Broken Token, OO reveals one thing from hepcat. LIES!!!!!

I've bought two things in my life from Broken Token. An insert for Arkham Horror card game and one for Terraforming Mars.

For me it's inserts? Yes. Metal coins? Umm yes please. Upgraded meeples? Depends on the quality of the originals. Miniatures instead of meeples? Nah. I prefer wood.

On the last day of Gencon I must have been disappointed because I hadn't bought that many games, so I went around the vendor hall buying playmats for games I own. It was an odd obsession for like 3 hours.

Fishbelly wrote: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:14 pm

Supposedly they're hoping to finish up with US shipping by end of next week (they also leave in a caveat that that depends on how things go that week). I still haven't received my shipping notice. We're nearing two months of waiting simply for shipping, so I'm still annoyed.

Hopefully you'll receive your notice soon. I feel a tad guilty, but I must confess that I just received my shipping notification earlier (my students were wondering why I was dancing behind my desk like a damned fool ).

And I finally got my shipping notice. On the very last day of their "normal" shipping period. Next week they announced they're starting on the 5 percent of orders that were overly large or had address issues.

I was one of the very last, it seems.

I did get my copy of Western Legends last week, but I think I'm just going to sell it. No solo mode and plays best with 3-4 people. Sadly, it's just not something that will ever hit my table these days. I'm not even really sure why I backed it at this point. EDIT: Ah, it was because the game launched in January of this year, right before I had my epiphany with solo gaming.

As hentzau can confirm, just put it on Ebay with the words "kickstarter edition" in the title and you'll probably get close to what you paid...and in some instances, maybe more.

hepcat wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:41 pm

Fishbelly wrote: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:14 pm

Supposedly they're hoping to finish up with US shipping by end of next week (they also leave in a caveat that that depends on how things go that week). I still haven't received my shipping notice. We're nearing two months of waiting simply for shipping, so I'm still annoyed.

Hopefully you'll receive your notice soon. I feel a tad guilty, but I must confess that I just received my shipping notification earlier (my students were wondering why I was dancing behind my desk like a damned fool ).

And I finally got my shipping notice. On the very last day of their "normal" shipping period. Next week they announced they're starting on the 5 percent of orders that were overly large or had address issues.

I was one of the very last, it seems.

Congrats. If you are like me and ordered almost everything, it will take you some time to inventory all the bits. But those bits are all pretty damned spiffy, so it's worth it. I can't wait to dive into the game this weekend.

Well, I already own pretty much everything from the 2nd edition base game, so it won’t be too much to handle. I think I’ll keep undertow separate for the first few games though.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:43 pm I did get my copy of Western Legends last week, but I think I'm just going to sell it. No solo mode and plays best with 3-4 people. Sadly, it's just not something that will ever hit my table these days. I'm not even really sure why I backed it at this point. EDIT: Ah, it was because the game launched in January of this year, right before I had my epiphany with solo gaming.

Played a two player game yesterday, and yeah, this game needs at least 4. They have a 'bot' that you use in 2 player games, but it is not that good.

But it was still a fun game, lots of options. And I really didn't think the components were cheap, honestly.

hepcat wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:50 pm Well, I already own pretty much everything from the 2nd edition base game, so it won’t be too much to handle. I think I’ll keep undertow separate for the first few games though.

I own everything from the 1st printing of TMB as well. I guess I took so long to inventory after reading early postings of folks with missing cards, chips, etc. Luckily my order was perfect and complete.

I've played several games of Undertow by itself this weekend to get a feel for it, and I think you will be quite happy with the new material. How could more TMB be a bad thing?

I do think some of the new tyrants are a bit too easy so far--at least when playing solo while I learn each character's skill set. Admittedly, I've only played against Barnacle and The Goblin Queen, so perhaps the others are tougher. I've not even looked at campaign mode yet, so I'm sure that will add another wrinkle as well. [edit] Gasket solo vs. Kollossum was a disaster just now, so not all the tyrants are easy.

All in all, I'm thrilled with Undertow and the enormous variety the game now provides when combined with the original game. It's probably my favorite game now, and one I certainly expect to be playing for a long, long time.

Got my Undertow and expansions today. I love the easier to read cards in the 3rd edition upgrade. I won't have to look for a magnifying glass when playing now. Haven't sorted through everything yet, but it looks like everything's there. The only complaint I might have is that sometimes it seems like Chip Theory is a little too obsessed with packaging, and that I'm paying more for that than I am the actual game. But that's a small and purely subjective issue on my part.

In other news, John Clowdus of Small Box Games, one of my favorite small developers, has his first big box game up on Kickstarter now under the Kolossal Games banner. I love most of what John does, but I doubt I'm going to back him on kickstarter with these larger games. It feels like he took his small box ideas and forced them into a large box edition in order to make more money. I don't begrudge him the chance to make more money, but I'm just worried that folks won't be getting the best bang for their buck in light of that. Anyway, it's called Mezo and it has big minis. If that's enough of a selling point for you, and the 80 dollar base game entry price isn't an issue, the underlying game will probably be good. John does create some awesome games.

Lordnine wrote: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:36 pm So a question for all of you if you will humor me. As many of you know, I designed a board game and it will hopefully be arriving for KS backers by December. I spent a lot of money making sure the whole experience felt really high-quality. The cardboard tokens in DinoGenics are twice as thick as those in WL and the player boards (thanks to being double layered) are about 6 times as thick as the ones in WL.

I did this because component quality is really important to me but I’m curious how everyone else feels about it. Would you be happy to receive a game with lesser components if it was cheaper or do you prefer to pay for the luxury items?

Got the update this weekend. You seem to have put in reasonable tray to organized the game and it is properly lipped so I assume the board fits into hold the pieces in their proper place. I have no idea how much this costs. While it's not a deal breaker to not see a tray but rather just a few plastic bags, It shows you care the a little bit about the consumer of your product. That's the things done right outside of of gameplay I personally notice and appreciate or notice and take umbrage to.

Thanks. The board and the playerboard both almost completely cover the insert so little to no spillage. As for the costs, everything is more expensive than you can imagine.

Is there any mechanism for late backing Dinogenics? I missed the KS.

Showed my son a couple of Dinogenics YouTube videos this evening. He's excited for December to get here!

I'm really looking forward to it, but Christmas is going to be pretty short this year, so I'm going to hold off, not open it, and put it under the tree.

baelthazar wrote: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:49 pm Is there any mechanism for late backing Dinogenics? I missed the KS.

Officially, not any more, but send me a PM and I can probably do something about that.

Dropped my Tiny Epic Mechs pledge for Set a Watch. A 29 dollar coop that plays with 1 to 4 people and promises combat “puzzles”. If Mage Knight and Mistfall have taught me anything, it’s that I’m a sucker for puzzles in my games.

Got you covered on Tiny Epic Mechs.

Tiny Epic Zombies kind of annoyed me with the set up confusion and a wealth of rules questions that can be seen on BGG. I’m a little down on them after that.