The Former Trump Presidency Thread

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:43 pm

I don't want a window into his goddamned mindset.

I just want him to pursue the policy he was sent there to pursue. For the most part he has been ok at that, although more failures than would be ideal. He has pushed in the directions he said he would.

His biggest problems have been shooting his damn mouth off about things that have no bearing on policy and fail to serve the agenda of advancing the policy. The rest needs to be filtered.

....in the interest of national security.....

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:46 pm

Rip wrote:
Skinypupy wrote:
Rip wrote:Haven't got a clue.

He would have been hailed by people criticizing Trump for doing it and condemned by those applauding Trump? That would be my guess.
Let's ask the question more directly. You cool with the POTUS threatening to shut down media outlets because they say mean things about him?
I'm not ok with him tweeting much of anything.

If I were to make one request of him it would to be stop tweeting shit.

JUST

STOP

!

Nice dodge. Care to answer the question?

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:08 am

I wouldn't expect a response.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:26 am

pr0ner wrote:I wouldn't expect a response.

We got the responses I expected.

People would have praised Obama.
Twitter is the problem.

Yep, that's Rip.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:00 am

I'm mostly just interested to see if he considers the POTUS publicly threatening to destroy the cornerstone of our democracy an acceptable trade-off for "winning" (and I use that term as loosely as possible) on some yet-to-be-determined policy position.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:07 am

It is bluster. That you guys try to read each tweet like it was an executive order is amusing.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:18 am

Rip wrote:It is bluster. That you guys try to read each tweet like it was an executive order is amusing.

Almost as amusing as your belief that anything that Trump does is based on "policy" of some kind. Bannon was the one with policy goals.

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:45 am

Rip wrote:It is bluster. That you guys try to read each tweet like it was an executive order is amusing.

If Obama had said 1/100th of the shit Trump has your head would literally have exploded and you know it.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:06 am

Anyone else remember the good times when Rip complained about Obama just using the wrong word to describe terrorism? Or Obama golfing?

But, you know, both sides.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:28 am

Rip wrote:It is bluster. That you guys try to read each tweet like it was an executive order is amusing.

How about when he says it while sitting in the Oval Office, as he did yesterday?

Do his statements on policy matter, like when he told Hannity yesterday that a rising stock market reduces the national debt?

Does ANYTHING he says matter? Or do you just get to pretend that the president's statements are irrelevant when your guy is a blithering moron, and thus that it's somehow perfectly OK for the POTUS to be a blithering moron?

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:38 am

Zarathud wrote:But, you know, both sides.

And we know there are many fine people on both sides.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:18 am

Rip wrote:It is bluster. That you guys try to read each tweet like it was an executive order is amusing.

Well, since that is the only way he knows how to govern...

I've seen that word pop up a few times now. From what I can tell, "bluster" is conservative code for "Something Trump says that we all know is wildly inappropriate, that we complete disagree with, and would have us absolutely calling for blood if Obama had said it. We have no possible way to justify what he said but can't speak out against Dear Leader, so we'll just lump it under 'bluster' and then pretend it didn't happen."

That about right?

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:26 am

Christ, what an asshole.

...We cannot keep FEMA, the Military & the First Responders, who have been amazing (under the most difficult circumstances) in P.R. forever!

Look, we all inherently know this is true...but why on earth would you come out and actually say it? Especially so soon after the disaster?

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:33 am

How 'bout you just keep them there until the goddamn place stabilizes with food, water, and power you goddamn f##king moron?!

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:39 am

Holman wrote:
Rip wrote:It is bluster. That you guys try to read each tweet like it was an executive order is amusing.
How about when he says it while sitting in the Oval Office, as he did yesterday?

Do his statements on policy matter, like when he told Hannity yesterday that a rising stock market reduces the national debt?

Does ANYTHING he says matter? Or do you just get to pretend that the president's statements are irrelevant when your guy is a blithering moron, and thus that it's somehow perfectly OK for the POTUS to be a blithering moron?

That is correct. His statements on the policy don't matter. The policy matters and that is all. The rest is noise and more often than not lies. Trump didn't invent it, he is just an extreme manifestation of it.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:41 am

Then why keep defending the indefensible?

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:07 am

pr0ner wrote:Then why keep defending the indefensible?

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:15 am

What needs to happen (and probably won't) is for someone to grow a pair, stand up and say "No, this isn't 'fake news'. I was in the meeting and he did say it. In fact, I can confirm it for the media".

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:16 am

Skinypupy wrote:Look, we all inherently know this is true...but why on earth would you come out and actually say it? Especially so soon after the disaster?

First off again what a racist piece of shit - they are US citizens. We aren't "staying there". I want to scream in his face 'THEY ARE US CITIZENS'.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:17 am

Rip wrote:That is correct. His statements on the policy don't matter. The policy matters and that is all. The rest is noise and more often than not lies. Trump didn't invent it, he is just an extreme manifestation of it.

I do not consider that acceptable leadership. Not for a corporation and certainly not for an elected official to the citizenry the elected them. And most especially not from elected leadership that controls large business interests, has international interests, and has a direct effect how the economy churns along and laws are executed.

As pr0ner says, it's indefensible.

At least this almost 1/4 of the way toward starting reconstruction. If the American people fail ourselves again in 2020, I really do know that will mean. That sort of defeat may not be something we'd ever bounce back from. I'm still hoping against hope there is a massive sweep against kleptocracy authoritarian banana republic "bluster" in 2018. More than a statement, but an actual meaningful movement.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:21 am

LordMortis wrote:That sort of defeat may not be something we'd ever bounce back from. I'm still hoping against hope there is a massive sweep against kleptocracy authoritarian banana republic "bluster" in 2018. More than a statement, but an actual meaningful movement.

I'll be Trump blunt - we aren't ever bouncing back from Trump. The rest of the world simply can't trust us anymore. The party is over - we are the new UK. Our children and grandchildren have a worse future. It'd take something remarkable to undo this reputational damage and that simply will not happen.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:35 am

malchior wrote:
LordMortis wrote:That sort of defeat may not be something we'd ever bounce back from. I'm still hoping against hope there is a massive sweep against kleptocracy authoritarian banana republic "bluster" in 2018. More than a statement, but an actual meaningful movement.
I'll be Trump blunt - we aren't ever bouncing back from Trump. The rest of the world simply can't trust us anymore. The party is over - we are the new UK. Our children and grandchildren have a worse future. It'd take something remarkable to undo this reputational damage and that simply will not happen.

I don't think you can say that at this point. Assuming, we don't have a complete international, economic, or social/civil meltdown between now an 2018, I don't even thing you can say it then. If, we as a nation, let this continue down this road unto 2020, though. I don't see how we can trust ourselves, let alone be the vanguard for others.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:36 am

The problem is that his statements on policies DO matter. We're not on the brink of war with North Korea because of policy changes. We're there because Trump can't keep his damn mouth shut.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:40 am

Rip wrote:That is correct. His statements on the policy don't matter. The policy matters and that is all. The rest is noise and more often than not lies. Trump didn't invent it, he is just an extreme manifestation of it.

I have to think there comes a point where the collateral damage from getting to the policy outweighs the policy itself.

"I had to burn down my house and alienate everyone I know in order to do it, but look, I found my keys!"

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:42 am

malchior wrote:
Skinypupy wrote:Look, we all inherently know this is true...but why on earth would you come out and actually say it? Especially so soon after the disaster?
First off again what a racist piece of shit - they are US citizens. We aren't "staying there". I want to scream in his face 'THEY ARE US CITIZENS'.

Yeah, but...they're BROWN US citizens without electoral votes. To Trump, they may as well live on another planet.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:55 am

LordMortis wrote:
malchior wrote:
LordMortis wrote:That sort of defeat may not be something we'd ever bounce back from. I'm still hoping against hope there is a massive sweep against kleptocracy authoritarian banana republic "bluster" in 2018. More than a statement, but an actual meaningful movement.
I'll be Trump blunt - we aren't ever bouncing back from Trump. The rest of the world simply can't trust us anymore. The party is over - we are the new UK. Our children and grandchildren have a worse future. It'd take something remarkable to undo this reputational damage and that simply will not happen.
I don't think you can say that at this point. Assuming, we don't have a complete international, economic, or social/civil meltdown between now an 2018, I don't even thing you can say it then. If, we as a nation, let this continue down this road unto 2020, though. I don't see how we can trust ourselves, let alone be the vanguard for others.

I hate to say it but that is pollyannish at this point. Look at the comments out of Germany and the EU this year about going it alone now. Not to say we won't have influence but it will be waning influence.

A big factor was cancelling TPP outright. It first off showed that the US was going to go protectionist and ultimately delivered SE Asia into China's sphere of trade control. That was a massive blunder all its own. If there is one thing you can bet on with the human race is that increasing communication and trade are a pattern of civilization. Going against that is a losing strategy. Especially since it is being used for personal political gain. Bernie Sanders in a way would have been just as bad in that sense but without all the human right's abuses. In other words Trump by himself was a fatal wound to American ascendence. We aren't getting a mulligan on this. Sorry to say it but the damage is permanent. Tossing him out in 2020 doesn't matter.

I usually like to qualify things with likely/probably. It isn't in my nature to say anything is impossible but my certainty here is in the range of six or seven 9s. His ability to take the actions he did on his own uncovered the inherent instability in our institutions. The world is noticing that more than our own citizens and will move on without us. Trust me I want to be proven wrong...but I won't.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:00 am

YellowKing wrote:
It's almost as if they're saying "Well if he'd just stop tweeting, then I wouldn't have to be embarrassed about supporting his insanity anymore because it would be hidden."

That's exactly what they are saying. "I could pretend I made the right decision by voting against Hillary if only I didn't have to hear about his tweets!"

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:03 am

Actually, and while I doubt I'll get a straight answer, I would love Rip to defend Trump's statement on Hannity last night that the national debt is going DOWN because the stock markets have gone up so much since he was elected.

He actually said on Hannity last night that the stock market increase has been enough to wipe out all of the deficits the Obama administration racked up in 8 years.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:16 am

pr0ner wrote:Actually, and while I doubt I'll get a straight answer, I would love Rip to defend Trump's statement on Hannity last night that the national debt is going DOWN because the stock markets have gone up so much since he was elected.

He actually said on Hannity last night that the stock market increase has been enough to wipe out all of the deficits the Obama administration racked up in 8 years.

I haven't seen the segment, but is it possible that he was attempting to compare the two numbers (the Obama-era federal deficit vs the overall increase in market capitalization for the year-to-date)? It would be entirely characteristic of him to take a simple "see how well the economy is doing under my stewardship" talking point and toss up a word salad that can be interpreted in any number of ways.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:18 am

noxiousdog wrote:
YellowKing wrote:
It's almost as if they're saying "Well if he'd just stop tweeting, then I wouldn't have to be embarrassed about supporting his insanity anymore because it would be hidden."
That's exactly what they are saying. "I could pretend I made the right decision by voting against Hillary if only I didn't have to hear about his tweets!"

This argument is pretty similar to the argument against people speaking out about and pointing out police violence, gun violence, sexual assault, and racism. "If people would just stop talking about it so much, there wouldn't be a problem!" Even if people aren't talking about it, there's still a problem. The only question is how aware you are that there's a problem.

It's like opening a wall in your house to do some renovation and discovering that there's a ton of termite damage. You can just put the drywall back up and ignore it, but that doesn't mean the damage is gone, and your house is still going to fall down.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:19 am

I saw the clip - I couldn't follow his logic which isn't a surprise. I did get the sense that for a guy who went to Wharton he doesn't seem to understand debt or debt service. Which correlates well with all his bankruptcies.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:20 am

Trump wrote: The country, we took it over, the last eight years they borrowed more than it did in the whole history of our country. So they borrowed More than $10 trillion. Right? We picked up $5.2 trillion just in the stock market. Possibly picked up the whole thing in terms of the first nine months. In terms of value. You can say in one sense, we are really increasing values and may be in the sense, we are reducing debt. We are very honored by it and very, very happy by what’s happening in Wall Street.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:24 am

My long shot guess is that he is talking about the net worth of the country but that literally makes no sense. Somehow value in the market is an asset versus our national debt. Which is as wrong as it is an amazing insight to the imbecile levels he'll stretch any fact to make it about him being awesome.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:25 am

Holman wrote:
Holman wrote:
Holman wrote:Here's the president of the United States casually threatening to shut down the media for criticizing him.

And he doubles down...

Tripling down now. He's serious. He's floating the idea to see how it is received.

This is what the Founders feared.

Where are all the "The Second defends the First" people now? Shouldn't they be rousted from their bunkers?

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:27 am

He said this at a rally earlier in the day:

Trump wrote:Very proudly, just in the stock market alone, we have increased our economic worth by $5.2 trillion, that’s right, since Election Day. $5.2 trillion. Think about that, that’s a quarter of the $20 trillion that we owe.

I mean, the stock market going up is great for my personal finances. Not so much for the National Debt.

This is probably how Trump went bankrupt so many times.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:28 am

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:31 am

pr0ner wrote:
Trump wrote: The country, we took it over, the last eight years they borrowed more than it did in the whole history of our country. So they borrowed More than $10 trillion. Right? We picked up $5.2 trillion just in the stock market. Possibly picked up the whole thing in terms of the first nine months. In terms of value. You can say in one sense, we are really increasing values and may be in the sense, we are reducing debt. We are very honored by it and very, very happy by what’s happening in Wall Street.

OK, yeah, that says... something?

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:40 am

Zaxxon wrote:

In short, Trump commends sexual harassers.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:42 am

Paingod wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:
In short, Trump commends sexual harassers.

Hey hey that is about as fair as heaping tons of abuse on Hillary for taking Weinstein money...in the past.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:03 am

Chaz wrote:"If people would just stop talking about it so much, there wouldn't be a problem!"

I used to think this way about racism but not for the reason you are implying. Before Internet really shone a light on institutionalized violence against people based on skin tone in today's US, I assumed it was the sort of thing was strictly a learned thing that was mental is all. A matter of language that reared it's ugly head into policy disadvantages. I had no idea how horrible the reality of my country is.