Octopus Overlords

You're assuming they ever mention that again.

I'm expecting the whole thing to be a disaster. New Trek has been so difficult to adjust to. But I'm still enjoying watching. It's certainly better than the no-Trek zone we were in for so long.

Sudy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:11 pm You're assuming they ever mention that again.

I'm expecting the whole thing to be a disaster. New Trek has been so difficult to adjust to. But I'm still enjoying watching. It's certainly better than the no-Trek zone we were in for so long.

Well, that's kind of what I'm expecting. It's something that should be a universe-altering discovery, but I fully expect them to just sweep under the rug and never mention again. Maybe they'll surprise me, who knows.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:04 pm but I just really didn't like the ultimate resolution of season 1 as to Picard himself in terms of

Spoiler:

him becoming an android.

Maybe they'll handle that in season 2 better than I expect, but I doubt it.

I would hate to be the person in charge of

I presumed they just used quantum magic to calculate what it definitely would have been before.

I personally would have programmed in some fun stuff like "phobia of plaid" or something before releasing it to him.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:18 am I always saw Q as more than comic relief. Q was a trickster god (Coyote, Iktome, Loki, Anansi, etc.) In myth, trickster gods serve a couple of important purposes. First, they teach through mischief. More importantly, they promote advancement when things get stagnant by causing deliberate trouble that requires progress to overcome, and that's something Q actually did. He pushed Picard, the Enterprise, and Humanity past their comfort zone in order to advance them to where they needed to be. Unfortunately, the fully episodic nature of the TNG prevented that from really showing most of the time, with the exception of 'Q Who?' and the Borg, which simultaneously set up a new villain, taught the Federation that they aren't the top of the food chain, and likely saved the Federation at the same time by forcing them to prepare for a threat they didn't know existed.

The classic trickster god steps in when things are too comfortable, does something that appears foolish or cruel, and causes the targets suffer, but grow. That's Q at his best.

I think you're right. That's a good assessment of the character. TNG gave the character more purpose. But I also think that when they moved to having him on DS9 and Voyager, that the character was played out more for comic relief.

Sudy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:11 pm I'm expecting the whole thing to be a disaster. New Trek has been so difficult to adjust to. But I'm still enjoying watching. It's certainly better than the no-Trek zone we were in for so long.

Agreed. It isn't so much the expectations, but that everything is different. It kind of feels like not everything is in the same place.

A few years ago I would have said you could never have too much Star Trek. But now I'm saying you can have too much Star Trek.

Seems like they're very explicitly marketing Prodigy to kids. Fine with me if they want to make Star Trek Muppet Babies - I don't need to watch it.

Yeah, but do we really need a cooking show hosted by Ethan Phillips?

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:50 pm

Are all the recipes in that book this:

(1) Ask replicator to make [dish name]
(2) Serve and eat.

No.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:50 pm

I've read a few of the 'themed' cookbooks out there. They're generally awful. They take some common dish and give it an IP-based name. That's it. I'd much prefer them if they actually created recipes for the foods featured in the show/book/game.

Looking in that book on Amazon:

~Andoran Oatmeal Cookies
~Klingon Green Beans and Walnuts
~Vulcan Mocha Ice Cream


Admittedly, they do have a few canon foods in there (although whether they're reasonable facsimiles of the original or just renamed common foods I don't know.) There are a few that look interesting in the DS9 section. That, at least, puts this one a step above most of the other, similar books I've seen.


Excuse me. I'm going to go have a cup of Romulan Green Tea. Which is green tea with the word 'Romulan' in front of it.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:35 pm Seems like they're very explicitly marketing Prodigy to kids. Fine with me if they want to make Star Trek Muppet Babies - I don't need to watch it.

They did say they were going to make an animated series for young kids. But they've also got the other animated series too. I do worry that they're stretching themselves too thin.

There was a show called Nurses on NBC from 91-94. My wife laughed herself silly at one ep all because of my crazy love of Trek back at that time.

18 18 "Eat Something" Terry Hughes Mitchell Hurwitz February 15, 1992
When one patient is discharged and killed moments later by an ambulance, and another is crushed by a crane in a freak accident, Annie begins to question her faith in God. Meanwhile, as a result of the chicken in the "Vulcan Surprise" at a Star Trek convention, a bunch of loony Trekkies are admitted to the hospital with food poisoning.

But nothing can beat the Frasier episode in which his son gets a Klingon Barmitzvah. That was a near perfect Trek crossover.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:03 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:50 pm

Are all the recipes in that book this:

(1) Ask replicator to make [dish name]
(2) Serve and eat.

Sometimes you need:
(1.5) specify hot/cold/temperature

Because otherwise, it would make the tea room temperature.

I keep forgetting to mention this, but about a week ago, I attended a presentation by the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada - Toronto Centre (Toronto RASC) where the guest speaker was Tim Russ. He was there to speak as an Amateur Astronomer, which gave me a newfound appreciation for him. For one thing, he's quite avid and really knows his stuff, and it was really cool to see a new side of him. Also seems quite down to earth. I managed to get him to do the Vulcan salute. The moderator picked up on a comment I said in chat and passed it along.

Trailer for Picard season 2:




I'm still looking forward to it. It has John de Lancie, looking great at 73. There's more Jeri Ryan. And I'm always a sucker for time travel. I just wish I gave a crap about the returning new cast members. I mean they have potential, but I don't think the series is going to last long enough to develop them. And they're just so frigging dark. It's like instead of the darkest timeline/mirror universe, we've landed in the mopiest timeline. I'd much rather have a smaller cast that combines old and new cast members. The new "crew" is too much of a distraction.

Sudy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:27 am I just wish I gave a crap about the returning new cast members. I mean they have potential, but I don't think the series is going to last long enough to develop them. And they're just so frigging dark. It's like instead of the darkest timeline/mirror universe, we've landed in the mopiest timeline. I'd much rather have a smaller cast that combines old and new cast members. The new "crew" is too much of a distraction.

Season 3 of Picard is already greenlit and is filming immediately after Season 2, so there's still time.

Wow, that didn't even really look like John DeLancie to me.

And yeah, I agree, it's dark. IMHO, I thought Picard was going to try being different in that respect, but all I see via the trailer are the same missteps Discovery made early on, and it's precisely why I enjoyed The Orville more because it never took itself too seriously and felt lighter in tone. So, this trailer has me on the fence. I'd like to see more hope shine through, but it's getting harder to believe Picard will ever find it. And if that trailer is supposed to entice me, it's not doing a very good job of it.

I think it's pretty tough to strike the right tone between Star Trek's traditional high minded utopianism on the one hand, and making the universe feel real and lived in at the same time. I thought Discovery has done a really good job of that tone overall, and Picard did fairly well too. My main problem with both is that a fair number of the major plot points are....fairly silly and not all that well thought out.

It's not so much the utopianism. If done well, I could do without it. The issue I have with it is more with the actual tone itself, with them soaking in despair at almost every turn. It just doesn't strike me as very interesting, especially in terms of world-building. There are so many dark shows to turn to, that I'd like to return to Trek as an escape.

Guess Q makes himself look older to match Picard.

He is quite funny in rl btw.

Rumpy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:57 pm It's not so much the utopianism. If done well, I could do without it. The issue I have with it is more with the actual tone itself, with them soaking in despair at almost every turn. It just doesn't strike me as very interesting, especially in terms of world-building. There are so many dark shows to turn to, that I'd like to return to Trek as an escape.

I don't recall any of the Star Trek franchises being comedies...except for the animated entry.

I also disagree with the belief that Discovery was "soaked in despair ". The show has been a journey back to the idealism of the Federation for Burnham. I think you're missing that.

Did I say they were comedies? No. And I'm speaking of the recent Treks in general. Their tone as of late have been less than ideal to me. I just don't like to see them being so dark. It's not what Trek is for me. And I guess Trek in general hasn't really done it for me lately. Yeah, I figured you would disagree, but It's my opinion and everyone is entitled to an opinion on how they feel about something. You can't exactly blame me when Discovery didn't give me a good first impression, which is important when there are many shows trying to grab our attentions.

Is there any current show anywhere that's set in a utopian future? (Maybe The Orville, which is a classic ST homage.) While ST has the pedigree to claim that niche, it would feel laughable in today's gritty reality.

I was less than thrilled with the first season of Picard, which felt like a fan service vehicle. But I'll probably re-up with Paramount+ to see the new one anyway. I'd also like to catch up with Discovery and try out Below Decks. Maybe Picard's second season will be better for having gotten most of the reintroductions out of the way.

I feel like it's somewhere in the middle. I want Trek to hold a mirror up to our current challenges and reality. I also respect that dark and heavy is just the tone of dramas these days, and generally I enjoy that. I guess I just struggle with how infrequently Picard and Discovery stop to take a breath.

I appreciate that Discovery has been steering in a more hopeful and idealistic direction, but it kind of feels unearned and insincere to me. (See also: Snyder's Superman.) Maybe because it started pretty gritty (and I actually adored Lorca and his storyline). I think I might have been happier with the series if it stayed there. Or conversely, if it had started out innocent before plunging into turmoil late in S2 (compare with Babylon 5). Like many modern serial series (and series in general), I think it's just lacked a cohesive long term vision.I don't really know how I feel about being stuck in this bizarro future-Trek/TOS hybrid. I guess it's something new at least, which I was afraid we weren't getting when they announced Discovery's initial setting.

Rumpy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:14 am Yeah, I figured you would disagree, but It's my opinion and everyone is entitled to an opinion on how they feel about something.

I would hope you'd be okay with my opinion being the opposite of yours then.

Everybody is entitled to the right opinion.

Keep politics out of this, you far right extremist!

I actually miss the utopianism. They never did it well, but I enjoyed getting a glimmer of hope for how humanity could be rather than being mired in shitballs we actually are. After all, Star Trek was born in a different gritty reality, surrounded by the Vietnam war, mass protests, the civil rights movement, the birth of the mass shooting, the cold war was at its height, and all the fun that was 1966. A big part of Star Trek's original appeal was that it was a show that was optimistic about humanity in a pessimistic era.

If we're in the darkest timeline, why would I want to look to darkness for entertainment?

I feel like back then, people still had hope. I don't think many of us do, anymore. Mind you, I wasn't alive back then so I can't attest to how people felt. Humanity has accomplished some amazing things in the past 50 years. But it's also repeated the same rotten cycles. And I can't help but feel we've been on a steadily downward trend since the early 90s. Or at least, now we see it for what it is. And the writers of new-Trek do too.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:40 am
If we're in the darkest timeline, why would I want to look to darkness for entertainment?

I guess I just don't see that. Even the previous seasons have always shown the Federation as a beacon of hope. That hasn't changed.
But at the end of the day, this show is about one thing, and one thing only:

Reno and Stamets.

That was more of a comment on Star Trek's utopianism in general, as... er...

*cough*

I never got through season 1 of Discovery. I keep meaning to go back, as I've heard that it got better, but I haven't been watching a lot of TV lately.

Well crap, I'll go back and spoiler my comments then.

Nah, the NDA period has passed. The onus is on me now. At some point this became a broader Trek thread anyway, covering Picard and Lower Decks, comparing and contrasting, and so forth.

I think the order of my preference for the new Star Trek stuff is:

Star Trek Discovery
Picard
...
....
......
........
..........
.............
Star Trek Lower Decks.

Discovery is sincere in its attempts to portray the optimism and altruism of the Federation that STNG did so well, while still trying to capture the "Wagon Train to the Stars" feeling that ToS was built on. It's suffered from some crappy storylines and some less than three dimensional characters, but it's finding its footing.

Picard works for me primarily because of the nostalgia. I do think it veers too far into darker territory too much of the time. And the characters haven't really worked for me yet (beyond Elnor, who shouldn't as he's basically the stereotypical Klingon character most Science Fiction shows include post STNG...but making their murder machine naive and innocent is what elevates him for me). I also think some of the darkness the show adheres too might be allegorical as Picard is facing the fact that he's near the end of his life.

I'm anxious to see what they do with the Pike spin off, as Anson Mount can do no wrong. He was perfect as a more mature, Kirk like character (understands and follows Starfleet protocol, but sometimes bends those protocols a bit if he feels they're wrong/not enough/too much).

And of course, I'm still waiting on the Reno and Stamets spinoff. CBS has my spec scripts already. However, I have insisted that eliminating the character of Ensign Hep Kat is a non starter for me.