That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons bring us some web forums whereupon we can gather
http://garbi.online/forum/
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:05 am Got my first Moderna shot this morning. The person administering it said it was her first day and I'm pretty sure I was her first shot of the day since she didn't know where things were. I'm just hoping she injected me with the correct vaccine....
You can't reschedule horseshoe crab spawning, unfortunately.Smoove_B wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:31 pm Going to be easier to move your fieldwork than reschedule your second shot, imho. I wouldn't mess with it - it's like crossing the streams. You just don't do it.
Have you tried asking nicely? Or maybe just try playing downer music.Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:44 pmYou can't reschedule horseshoe crab spawning, unfortunately.Smoove_B wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:31 pm Going to be easier to move your fieldwork than reschedule your second shot, imho. I wouldn't mess with it - it's like crossing the streams. You just don't do it.
Doing that would make them blue crabs and that's not fair.El Guapo wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:25 pmHave you tried asking nicely? Or maybe just try playing downer music.Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:44 pmYou can't reschedule horseshoe crab spawning, unfortunately.Smoove_B wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:31 pm Going to be easier to move your fieldwork than reschedule your second shot, imho. I wouldn't mess with it - it's like crossing the streams. You just don't do it.
I forgot to mention, given the connection, is this dramatic irony? Maybe Lord Mortis can clarify as I always get that confused.Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:44 pm You can't reschedule horseshoe crab spawning, unfortunately.
Actually, as I posted a few pages back, older folks do better with their second shot:Smoove_B wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:17 pm Ugh, fair enough. You might luck out. My parents are in their 70s and only had very mild symptoms after their second shot. Slight body aches, chills and just general malaise. I think both had symptom onset by early evening (they were vaccinated in 10am) and when they woke up the next day other than some linger body soreness, both said they were fine. It's tough though because you just never know. I'm hopeful their mild reaction means I'll be ok, but of course I know that's no guarantee.
Old age and treachery wins out again against youth and enthusiasmA growing number of adults younger than 50 are qualifying for the COVID-19 vaccine because of medical conditions or their line of work. Health experts say those who are most recently eligible are also more likely to have a reaction to the vaccine, because younger adults' immune systems are the most active. That means they’re more likely to have a physical response from the vaccine, even after their first dose.
My arm was sore from the first one (Pfizer) and the second knocked me on my ass.Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:43 am My shoulder got pretty sore last night but seems a bit better this morning. If that's the worst of it from the first shot, I had it pretty good.
From what I understand, stronger reaction means better antibodies. But super strong may not be needed.jztemple2 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:18 pm
Old age and treachery wins out again against youth and enthusiasm
Mine feels like a persistent charley horse. Really only feel it when I try to stretch my arms straight up, so don't even notice it most of the time.Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:43 am My shoulder got pretty sore last night but seems a bit better this morning. If that's the worst of it from the first shot, I had it pretty good.
I actually hadn't seen that, thanks.jztemple2 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:18 pm Actually, as I posted a few pages back, older folks do better with their second shot
Indeed. A favorite of mine....mainly because I'm firmly in the old-age and treachery window now, not so much in the youth.Old age and treachery wins out again against youth and enthusiasm
Is there any hard evidence on this, or is it anecdotal/wishful thinking from those who get their asses kicked?LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:28 amFrom what I understand, stronger reaction means better antibodies. But super strong may not be needed.jztemple2 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:18 pm
Old age and treachery wins out again against youth and enthusiasm
It feels like it makes sense. That's Science 101.ImLawBoy wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:35 amIs there any hard evidence on this, or is it anecdotal/wishful thinking from those who get their asses kicked?LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:28 amFrom what I understand, stronger reaction means better antibodies. But super strong may not be needed.jztemple2 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:18 pm
Old age and treachery wins out again against youth and enthusiasm
Coronavirus vaccine side effects: What we know so far and why they happenImLawBoy wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:35 amIs there any hard evidence on this, or is it anecdotal/wishful thinking from those who get their asses kicked?LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:28 amFrom what I understand, stronger reaction means better antibodies. But super strong may not be needed.jztemple2 wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:18 pm
Old age and treachery wins out again against youth and enthusiasm
Why do vaccines have side effects?
Vaccines side-effects differ, Paul Offit tells Inverse. He's the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.
However, the reason why the two leading vaccine candidates — the Moderna vaccine and the Pfizer vaccine — can cause these expected sides-effects is due to the immune system’s reaction to the way the vaccine is packaged.
These are both mRNA vaccines, which contain the genetic instructions the body needs to make a piece of the coronavirus (the spike protein). That mRNA is unstable on its own, so it's wrapped in a fatty-encasement.
“This sort of complex lipid [fat] encasement, can be reactogenic, meaning it can cause these kinds of side effects including low-grade fever, and the side effects associated with fever, [like] headache, muscle aches, fatigue, chills," Offit says.
“It doesn't usually last more than a day or two."
Non-mRNA vaccines come with similar side effects simply because they’re intended to stimulate the immune system. That pain — though it varies by person and by the vaccine — can be a sign that this immune response is happening.
Once a vaccine is injected, the immune system — recognizing a foreign pathogen (or an aspect of one) —responds by recruiting other cells and inflammatory cytokines to control the pathogen. It’s a dress rehearsal for what the body will have to do should it encounter the real pathogen. It can also cause discomfort in the muscle around the injection site.
Are specific people more likely to feel vaccine side-effects?
Sometimes, by-products of that immune system response end up circulating in the blood, which can cause other side effects elsewhere in the body. These are called systemic effects and include fever, fatigue, or headache.
Generally speaking, the strength of that immune response can dictate how intense those symptoms may feel for a day or so.
For example, the Phase 2 trial results of the AstraZeneca/Oxford Vaccine showed that older adults tended to report fewer side effects than younger adults. The Pfizer vaccine’s press release also noted older adults were reporting “fewer and milder” effects compared to younger people.
“Older adults have a more senescent immune system, so they don't respond as vigorously,” says Offit.
“For example, a child can have a temperature fever of 105 degrees sometimes higher. It's very rare for an adult to have that kind of fever.”
It should be noted that older people still appeared to have strong immune responses to the Pfizer, Moderna, and Oxford Vaccine candidates, a critical measure of how successful they will be.
The data on the immune responses of the coronavirus vaccines in children have not yet been released, though AstraZeneca, Johnson and Johnson, Pfizer, and Moderna have indicated that they plan to develop a vaccine for children.
Even that first article doesn't make it sound like side effects are predictive of the efficacy of the vaccine. It may be indicative that your "innate immunity" is stronger, but that doesn't seem to indicate that your "adaptive immunity" will be better or worse, and that's really what the vaccine is trying to influence. Combined with the second article's discussion of overall effectiveness regardless of side effects (the 94% efficacy even though only 50% had side effects), I'm going to file this under "wishful thinking from those who got their asses kicked" for now.Smoove_B wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:38 amA doctor said it, so it must be true.ImLawBoy wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:35 am Is there any hard evidence on this, or is it anecdotal/wishful thinking from those who get their asses kicked?
Wait, so if you don't get a reaction, does that mean you're a total failure? Nope.
Summary
It is a common belief that an injection-site reaction to a vaccine is a predictive sign of a desirable vaccine response (‘no pain, no gain’ concept). However limited data either support or disprove this concept. In the hepatitis B study comparing different adjuvants, the magnitude of inflammatory responses paralleled the magnitude of adaptive immune responses and the overall incidence of reactogenicity symptoms. The more potent adjuvants (AS01 and AS03) were capable of activating an early IFN-signalling pathway, which was confirmed in the blood of subjects the day after receiving H1N1/AS03. However, despite parallel associations of reactogenicity and adaptive responses with early innate responses, no predictive association was demonstrated between reactogenicity and the adaptive response, which suggests that the ‘no pain, no gain’ concept may not be valid, at least at the individual level.
So I'm not just getting older, I'm also getting senescent? I had to look that one up. Apparently it means "your body is going to hell in a handbasket."Max Peck wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:47 am“Older adults have a more senescent immune system, so they don't respond as vigorously,” says Offit.
If your second dose looked like a little blue pill, you took the wrong medicine.ImLawBoy wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:02 pm Second dose administered.
Does a third arm count as a side effect?
Just make sure that they don't give you a red pill, or else you'll wind up as a men's rights activist.
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronav ... story.htmlA study from the University of Michigan found that 16% of adults from several countries avoided annual flu vaccinations because of a fear of needles, and 20% avoided tetanus shots.
Mary Rogers, a retired University of Michigan professor and one of the authors of the study, said it was too soon to know if a similar number of people will abstain from the COVID-19 vaccine. But that fear tends to lessen as people age — which is concerning since surges of coronavirus cases have been driven by young people, who are more likely to have the phobia.
At this point just moderate muscle stiffness focused around the injection area. My wife had some mild nausea last night, but hard to tell if that was from the shot or just a normal reaction to being in proximity with me.ImLawBoy wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:22 am My parents (70s) had minimal reactions to Moderna No. 2. I'll report back (hopefully) in about 24 hours with whether my wife or I have a reaction.
Still some soreness at the injection site, but much reduced from yesterday. Whereas yesterday it was enough to make me not want to lift my arm, today it's no impediment at all.stessier wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:31 amMine feels like a persistent charley horse. Really only feel it when I try to stretch my arms straight up, so don't even notice it most of the time.Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:43 am My shoulder got pretty sore last night but seems a bit better this morning. If that's the worst of it from the first shot, I had it pretty good.
Wow. That's not nothing. Won't stop me from getting it, but it sounds similar to getting a tetanus shot on steroids.stessier wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:20 am yesterday it was enough to make me not want to lift my arm,
Note: I am a wimp.Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:23 amWow. That's not nothing. Won't stop me from getting it, but it sounds similar to getting a tetanus shot on steroids.stessier wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:20 am yesterday it was enough to make me not want to lift my arm,
Need to have autoinjectors on hand for these folks. I have one for my MS shot and you don't see the needle and the speed of the injection can be adjusted. I barely feel the shot I give myself. I know that phobias aren't rational and I'm sure there are mechanical reasons it can't work for these shots, but those feel like solvable problems.hitbyambulance wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:51 am speaking as someone with mild-to-moderate trypanophobia, i can certainly sympathize (but it doesn't stop me from getting vaccinated):
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronav ... story.htmlA study from the University of Michigan found that 16% of adults from several countries avoided annual flu vaccinations because of a fear of needles, and 20% avoided tetanus shots.
Mary Rogers, a retired University of Michigan professor and one of the authors of the study, said it was too soon to know if a similar number of people will abstain from the COVID-19 vaccine. But that fear tends to lessen as people age — which is concerning since surges of coronavirus cases have been driven by young people, who are more likely to have the phobia.