The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Sat Jul 22, 2023 9:46 pm

Kraken wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:09 pm In related news, Michigan’s attorney general filed charges against 16 “alternate electors” who tried to steal the state for trump.

And they may be ready to turn on Trump:

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat Jul 22, 2023 10:12 pm

I totally believe that it took over two years for that story to come out.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Jul 22, 2023 10:54 pm

It could be plausible for someone to put out a sign-in sheet with lines to sign on (like she claims), then later print additional text onto it (variants of that have been done in the past), but it's a stretch. And then there's the fact that she says she took a picture of the sign-in sheet at the time (therefore before the 'alterations' were made):

That seems like an odd heading for a sign-in sheet.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 3:24 am

I know one of those fake electors. I grew up two blocks down from John Haggard, who ran the local plumbing company in my home town. His son was my age, but two years behind me in school (I skipped a year, John Jr was left behind one year). The daughters were a bit older than me, but all three were very nice. There was a youngest son who was a few years behind John who was close with my father as we were growing up. The local tragedy which prompted it isn’t important (but I’m sure I’ve posted about it in my time here), but Ronald took his own life as he was getting into high school. John Sr (the fake elector) was very heavy into the local GOP scene (he often had the giant elephant float for parade duties in his yard). He was a glad-handler and always had a bit of a mischievous/oily vibe to him. I didn’t talk to him at my father’s CoL earlier this summer, but he was present. I believe he was the oldest of the fake electors, at 82.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:45 am

Grifman wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 9:46 pm
Kraken wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:09 pm In related news, Michigan’s attorney general filed charges against 16 “alternate electors” who tried to steal the state for trump.
And they may be ready to turn on Trump:

I doubt any of them would have the goods on Trump. They were probably dealing with Michigan Republicans. *Maybe* some Roger Stone type affiliated with but with one degree of removal from Trump.

waitingtoconnect · Post by **waitingtoconnect** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:03 pm

Trump is Teflon supreme. And even for those who see through him most Republicans are so brainwashed by Fox News they would vote for Satan over Biden in the name of Jesus.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 1:51 pm

El Guapo wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 4:06 pm
stessier wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:15 am
malchior wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:07 am
stessier wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:02 am
malchior wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 9:48 am Trial date set - May 20th, 2024 in Fort Pierce. At the tail end of primary season.

Edit: This raises the possibility that the Republicans may go to convention having to decide if they will nominate a convicted felon for the highest office in the land.

That assumes the trial doesn't get pushed out further as the date approaches.
Right. And I have little faith it will happen before the election tbh.
In fairness, that schedule looks reasonable given the complexity of the case.
Do any of the knowledgeable / informed people on this sort of thing have any issue with the schedule?

https://mastodon.social/@Popehat/110752511373829228

Ken White
@Popehat@mastodon.social
May 2024 is a very reasonable, perhaps a bit fast, trial date for Trump’s case. Don’t let people who don’t know what they are talking about tell you otherwise.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 11:28 am

Another indictment on the way:

Jaymon · Post by **Jaymon** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 1:46 pm

Once that first indictment stuck, they are going to continue coming.
How will Judge Cannon rule? That remains to be seen, but she won't be the presiding judge for every case, and I personally believe we will be seeing a lot more cases being brought.

He has been successfully sued for sexual assult, and he under indictement for federal crimes, with a trial date set.

The thing about teflon, once it gets its first scratch, the rest of the teflon flakes off pretty quickly.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:41 pm

Busy week, apparently.

Fulton County courthouse in Atlanta gets barricades in place.

DA Fani Willis previously asked judges not to schedule trials for first 2 weeks of August.

Trump indictments -- a dozen or more, including maybe of Lindsey Graham -- are coming.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:14 pm

The GA case is top tier for me. The evidence is so blatantly clear, I am not sure how even TFG will attempt to obfuscate.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:25 pm

I would like to think that it all being recorded should make this a slam dunk as well.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 6:05 pm

Wait....what? The pool dude?

A third defendant has been added to the Trump classified documents case. Carlos De Oliveira has been added to the docket charging Trump and Walt Nauta.

NYT identified Carlos Deoliveira as the worker who drained the pool at Mar-a-Lago in October and, in the process, flooded the room where surveillance footage is kept.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 6:31 pm

CNBC

Former President Donald Trump was hit Thursday night with three new criminal charges in addition to the ones he already faced related to his retaining classified documents at his Florida residence after leaving the White House.

Trump is accused in a new superseding indictment with his valet, Walt Nauta, of an attempt to delete video surveillance foot at his Mar-a-Lago club in Palm Beach, Florida during the summer of 2022, when federal officials were seeking the return of government records they suspected of being kept at that location.
...
The new charges against Trump include an additional count of willful retention of national defense information, and two new counts of obstruction against him and Nauta.

De Oliveira, 56, was charged with conspiracy to obstruct justice, altering destroying, mutilating a document, and false statements.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 7:55 pm

Closely obstruction:

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 8:37 pm

His mistake for once? Not enough layers for deniability.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 9:29 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:41 pm Busy week, apparently.

Fulton County courthouse in Atlanta gets barricades in place.

DA Fani Willis previously asked judges not to schedule trials for first 2 weeks of August.

Trump indictments -- a dozen or more, including maybe of Lindsey Graham -- are coming.

Did Mexico pay for those walls at least?

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 9:36 pm

We're gonna need more threads.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 9:54 pm

El Guapo wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:45 am
Grifman wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2023 9:46 pm
Kraken wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:09 pm In related news, Michigan’s attorney general filed charges against 16 “alternate electors” who tried to steal the state for trump.
And they may be ready to turn on Trump:

I doubt any of them would have the goods on Trump. They were probably dealing with Michigan Republicans. *Maybe* some Roger Stone type affiliated with but with one degree of removal from Trump.

But that's the thing, you move up the food chain to wherever it ends.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Jul 28, 2023 12:36 am

“including maybe of Lindsey Graham”

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Jul 28, 2023 4:44 pm

Popehat's podcast talked a lot about this topic this week. His opinion is the addition of the new defendant on the Mar Lago case is going to push out the start day several months especially since the original schedule was fairly aggressive (in his opinion). Just in case anyone was thinking this was going to be over before the election.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:35 pm

stessier wrote:Popehat's podcast talked a lot about this topic this week. His opinion is the addition of the new defendant on the Mar Lago case is going to push out the start day several months especially since the original schedule was fairly aggressive (in his opinion). Just in case anyone was thinking this was going to be over before the election.

Transcript:

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/ ... asic?pli=1

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malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:20 am

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:40 am

Well I mean that would have been pretty amazing if they agreed to that nonsense.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:14 pm

I'm seeing it more as a sign of desperation.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:15 pm

The judges response is pretty funny.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:29 pm

Hyena · Post by **Hyena** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:58 am

I will freely admit I don't know the finer points on this, but why don't they just assign these idiots a public defender and move on? Is it because of the top secret nature of the boxes and such?

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:13 am

Hyena wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:58 am I will freely admit I don't know the finer points on this, but why don't they just assign these idiots a public defender and move on? Is it because of the top secret nature of the boxes and such?

They have to qualify for the public defender, which means they have to make below the current federal poverty guidelines. Given that he works for TFG he wouldn't qualify.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 12:19 pm

Yes, but does he actually get paid by TFG?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 12:25 pm

I mean, he's the property manager for Mar-a-Lago so presumably he's earning income. I can't imagine he's running that site for free access to the omelette bar. From the AP:

He was ordered to turn over his passport and sign an agreement to pay $100,000 if he doesn’t return to court. He was represented by Washington, D.C.-based attorney John Irving, but under court rules he needs local counsel to proceed with his arraignment, which was scheduled for Aug. 10 in Fort Pierce.

Irving told reporters after the hearing that he looks forward to seeing what potential evidence the Justice Department has. He declined to comment about whether De Oliveira has been asked to testify against Trump.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 12:32 pm

Scraper wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:13 am
Hyena wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:58 am I will freely admit I don't know the finer points on this, but why don't they just assign these idiots a public defender and move on? Is it because of the top secret nature of the boxes and such?
They have to qualify for the public defender, which means they have to make below the current federal poverty guidelines. Given that he works for TFG he wouldn't qualify.

A judge wouldn't let someone delay trial indefinitely by not retaining counsel. At some point the judge would either assign counsel to the defendant or deem their right to counsel waived, or some variation on that. But I imagine judges would be reluctant to do that unless and until their hand was truly forced, which means that this would work pretty well as a delay tactic (even setting aside the Trump-friendly judge).

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 1:37 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 12:25 pm I mean, he's the property manager for Mar-a-Lago so presumably he's earning income. I can't imagine he's running that site for free access to the omelette bar. From the AP:
He was ordered to turn over his passport and sign an agreement to pay $100,000 if he doesn’t return to court. He was represented by Washington, D.C.-based attorney John Irving, but under court rules he needs local counsel to proceed with his arraignment, which was scheduled for Aug. 10 in Fort Pierce.

Irving told reporters after the hearing that he looks forward to seeing what potential evidence the Justice Department has. He declined to comment about whether De Oliveira has been asked to testify against Trump.

While we realize he was promised a salary, have the direct deposits actually been made…

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 1:46 pm

Considering I just read that money raised through some PAC just paid for $100K worth of haircuts for Melania, I'm sure money is being funneled to the property manager somehow. Maybe TFG's kids are taking money from another kids with cancer charity to pay him?

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:20 pm

De Oliveira's delayed arraignment shouldn't have any effect on the trial date, should it?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:46 pm

Alefroth wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:20 pm De Oliveira's delayed arraignment shouldn't have any effect on the trial date, should it?

Mr Fed says yes it will - several months delay is likely.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:25 pm

stessier wrote:
Alefroth wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:20 pm De Oliveira's delayed arraignment shouldn't have any effect on the trial date, should it?
Mr Fed says yes it will - several months delay is likely.

I also see him as the one most likely to take a deal and flip.

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malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:02 pm

Trump has just said he'll be indicted today on 2020 election charges. Also apparently a ton of reporters just piled into one of the courtrooms in DC. Let's see!

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:03 pm

malchior wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:02 pm Trump has just said he'll be indicted today on 2020 election charges. Also apparently a ton of reporters just piled into one of the courtrooms in DC. Let's see!

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:08 pm

malchior wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:02 pm Trump has just said he'll be indicted today on 2020 election charges. Also apparently a ton of reporters just piled into one of the courtrooms in DC. Let's see!

CNBC was saying something about someone related to Trump claiming the timing was designed to interfere with his 2024 campaign... I suppose it's just like his taxes, he's always under audit, what can he do? Because there is always concern of him criming there should never be actions against him criming. I totally don't blame the defenses for trying but the jurists should take into account decades of gaming the system in to account when when deciding to allow him to try and game the system. The man child who perpetually is crying wolf really deserves no benefit of doubt nor even should a wolf be blowing his house down.