tesla motors

[Zaxxon]

It is not. You are still making mistaken assumptions.

If you're actually curious, it's not difficult to fire up Plugshare.com and look around. Keep in mind that 90% of the charging owners of EVs do is at home.

[stessier]

I don't live near Elgin, but Zax, that's not a whole hell of a lot in an area roughly 45x35 miles (nearly 1600 sq miles). Are you certain all of these are in public areas? Most of the chargers I've seen have been in parking lots of restaurants, malls, hotels and other private establishments, ostensibly for the use of patrons. I've seen exactly one on a public street.

In the chargers I've seen, I've observed exactly no cars charging. I was at a hotel last month in NY that had 3 chargers positioned closer than even the handicapped parking. These spaces were always full. The cars filling them probably dated back to the late 80's.

Anyway, the point of the article is that appears there will be even fewer chargers coming anytime soon. This is going to slow adoption and delay the point where the technology achieves critical mass needed for it to become a critical, integral part of the infrastructure (at which point it becomes a tax payer obligation).

Your metrics are whacked. You are the R&P Rip of this thread.

[LawBeefaroni]

I still don't know a single person outside of this board that has an EV, much less a Tesla. I can still count on one hand (with fingers left over) the number of charging stations I've seen in the area. This doesn't help.

Right now, within 50 feet of my desk is a Model S owner, a Model 3 owner and a Chevy Bolt owner. There are three new Model 3 owners in various stages of processing.

Jeff just lives in rarified air. It's hard to displace all the suburban Bentleys and exotics.

Teslas are all over in the city. It's hard to drive anywhere for more than 2 minutes and not see one. It was the "in" car here 5 years ago and it's trickled down to nearly all aspirational buyers now.

[Jeff V]

Keep in mind that 90% of the charging owners of EVs do is at home.

Yeah yeah and 90% of driving trips are within 5 miles of home.

It's the 10% that's a potential deal-breaker.

[Zaxxon]

Not in a Tesla. I'm taking an 1800 mile trip in 2 weeks, through SD and into and around ND. If that's doable, give me an f-in' break about the burbs of Chicago.

[LawBeefaroni]

It's a non-issue. My friend drove to Florida in his P90. We routinely take trips to the suburbs and Indiana. Charging hasn't been needed once.

It could probably make it to Kalamazoo and back on one charge.

[Jeff V]

What's your definition of doable? How does the travel time compare to a gas-powered car? And how much more difficult does it become if you don't happen to have a Tesla (correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems Tesla can use any chargers, but non-Teslas are not so blessed). You are driving straight through, or do you have interim stops planned?

Again, my definition of deal breaker is not every day commuting, but inter-city or inter-state travel. With kids, flying is a thing of the past (with the unfortunate exception of the Philippines...tell me your Tesla can swim and I'll concede it's usefulness ). It looks like the standard Tesla 3 wouldn't even handle a round-trip drive to the beach that we're taking tomorrow without having to stop somewhere to charge. Some of the non-Teslas are much worse and at least one model I looked at a few years ago couldn't even handle my round-trip commute to work. Since the kids already proved they could handle a 15-hour straight-through ride, my wife is already planning our next excursion, this time to Florida.

[Jeff V]

It's a non-issue. My friend drove to Florida in his P90. We routinely take trips to the suburbs and Indiana. Charging hasn't been needed once.

It could probably make it to Kalamazoo and back on one charge.

Specs on a model 3 says 220 mile range. K-zoo is about 370 round trip (to my house) according to Google maps. You wouldn't want to find yourself pushing the car around Gary looking for a charger now, would you?

I'm not going quite as far tomorrow, but still around 280 miles round trip.

[Zaxxon]

What's your definition of doable? How does the travel time compare to a gas-powered car? And how much more difficult does it become if you don't happen to have a Tesla (correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems Tesla can use any chargers, but non-Teslas are not so blessed). You are driving straight through, or do you have interim stops planned?

Boy, that's a lot of loaded questions.

Yes, long-distance trips are much more doable in a Tesla. The Dakotas trip would be un-doable in anything but a Tesla without major charge time concessions.

We'll be driving largely the way we would in a gas car, with a few Supercharger stops interspersed (those stops will be 15-45 minutes, and will double as bathroom/food stops). We'll also charge overnight a couple of times at the hotels.

Again, my definition of deal breaker is not every day commuting, but inter-city or inter-state travel.

In a Tesla, inter-city travel is largely the same as in a gas car, assuming you don't pack and eat in your car and use a catheter. You're looking at a Supercharger stop every 200-300 miles depending on the model and battery size you choose, and those stops will be 15-60 minutes depending on how well-Superchargered your route is.

Having kids is a help, not a hindrance, since I'd be stopping every few hours anyway unlike I might if I were traveling alone.

[ImLawBoy]

After you're done convincing Jeff to get an electric car, why don't you jump over to R&P and get Rip to vote for a Democrat.

[Zaxxon]

Specs on a model 3 says 220 mile range. K-zoo is about 370 round trip (to my house) according to Google maps. You wouldn't want to find yourself pushing the car around Gary looking for a charger now, would you?

I'm not going quite as far tomorrow, but still around 280 miles round trip.

220 or 310 depending on the battery size you choose.

There are Superchargers on all the major interstate routes in your area. I'm using Elgin to Kalamazoo here since it's about 370 miles round-trip. You'd be looking at one Supercharger stop each way, for a total of 45 minutes out of your 370-mile trip.

If I can make it 370 miles without more than a 45-min stop for food/bio breaks with my kids, that's a great day. It's just really not that complicated.

[Zaxxon]

After you're done convincing Jeff to get an electric car, why don't you jump over to R&P and get Rip to vote for a Democrat.

It's funny, but I had a similar thought today. I rail on others here for continuing to engage Rip when it's clear he's a troll, and yet here I always do it with Jeff and his EV fears. I'll go sit and face the corner now.

[coopasonic]

Zaxx, if it makes you feel any better, I basically blame you for ruining my finances for the next several years.

Thanks!

[Zaxxon]

Zaxx, if it makes you feel any better, I basically blame you for ruining my finances for the next several years.

Thanks!

It does, actually.

So, like, if I average my success rate with Jeff and with you, and toss in small partial credit for leaning on stessier for his Bolt, it tips me to a passing grade? For some defintion of passing.

[Jeff V]

After you're done convincing Jeff to get an electric car, why don't you jump over to R&P and get Rip to vote for a Democrat.

It's funny, but I had a similar thought today. I rail on others here for continuing to engage Rip when it's clear he's a troll, and yet here I always do it with Jeff and his EV fears. I'll go sit and face the corner now.

My only fears is that it is still super expensive for a limited use vehicle. Since it doesn't come in a large form factor (minivan or at least mid sized SUV) it can't be the primary car to carry 5 people and all their shit, and it's way too expensive to replace my Versa as a commuter car.

[Jeff V]

Fwiw, our trip to NY was about 1000 miles in 15 hours. Stops totalled a little over an hour (Google had the drive pegged at 13:45). A 45 minute stop every 300 miles would put things at a rather leisurely pace (as it was, the baby was fed up with about an hour to go).

[Zaxxon]

It's not a limited-use vehicle for normal people, and it's also not super-expensive. The current base 3 is $41500 after Federal credit, $36500 here in Colorado (base will eventually be $35k with no credit). It's more fun to drive than sporty Audi/BMW/Merc vehicles of similar price, and costs many hundreds less to fuel annually.

Give it time. This has been the plan all along, and we're simply not yet far along the scale to reach the Jeff V inflection point. We're there for enough folks to sell out every vehicle they can make for years to come, which will continue compounding progress on that scale.

[telcta]

Well, finally did the deed and pulled the trigger tonight. I was able to choose the delivery center (only two options in New York) nothing in Massachusetts. Still not clear on sales tax, I’m assuming will be in NY which is a shame I can’t buy in CT as the tax rate is almost 2.5% lower here.

Ended up going with AWD, white and aero wheels. Delivery is Sept-Nov so I’ll probably be switching to snow tires sooner. May have to get some opinions later from the heavy snow pros here on what’s a good snow tire.

I’m oddly calm at the moment.

[Zaxxon]

I’m oddly calm at the moment.

I was calm until I got my VIN. At that point I knew my car existed and was somewhere other than with me. That's when the waiting became a PITA.

Good luck! My father-in-law ordered his yesterday. Same config as Coop's but in red.

[telcta]

It was interesting for insurance they requested proof on my current car if I don’t have insurance yet for the Tesla. I thought I couldn’t get insurance until I had a VIN. My agent said Safeco wouldn’t even give me a quote without a VIN.

[Zaxxon]

That's true. They want to see that you have insurance. If you do, a new car purchase will be automatically covered for a short period so you can drive it off the lot. You don't need to have (and likely can't get, as you said) insurance for the 3 specifically yet.

I sent them my current insurance, then the day I picked up the car I added it to my policy.

[LawBeefaroni]

It's a non-issue. My friend drove to Florida in his P90. We routinely take trips to the suburbs and Indiana. Charging hasn't been needed once.

It could probably make it to Kalamazoo and back on one charge.

Specs on a model 3 says 220 mile range. K-zoo is about 370 round trip (to my house) according to Google maps. You wouldn't want to find yourself pushing the car around Gary looking for a charger now, would you?

I'm not going quite as far tomorrow, but still around 280 miles round trip.

He has a P90 which is closer to 300 mi. Downtown to Kzoo is 300 miles. But if you want to split hairs, fine. Great. I'll agree that it's a totally impractical car for drivers who fear stopping and don't want to plan a route.

[stessier]

It was interesting for insurance they requested proof on my current car if I don’t have insurance yet for the Tesla. I thought I couldn’t get insurance until I had a VIN. My agent said Safeco wouldn’t even give me a quote without a VIN.

I'm in SC, but i was able to get a quote for a Bolt from Safeco without a VIN (it was only $300 more/year than my 15 year old Civic).

[telcta]

Thank you, stessier... I just moved our insurance from Plymouth Rock to Safeco a couple weeks ago... it was Plymouth Rock that was requiring the VIN and Safeco had quoted me an add'l $700/yr to add the Tesla.

Did your premium change much from the quote after you gave them a VIN? I figure mine will be slightly more since I added AWD.

[Zaxxon]

Damn, mine went down when moving from my Leaf to the 3. This is with Progressive. Don't be too surprised if it's not as bad as you think, as it's based at least as much on the safety of the vehicle as its value.

[stessier]

Thank you, stessier... I just moved our insurance from Plymouth Rock to Safeco a couple weeks ago... it was Plymouth Rock that was requiring the VIN and Safeco had quoted me an add'l $700/yr to add the Tesla.

Did your premium change much from the quote after you gave them a VIN? I figure mine will be slightly more since I added AWD.

I don't have a VIN yet.... I had to place an order and it will be 3 months. The irony of placing this order the same day Tesla opened the flood gates is not lost on me.

[Zaxxon]

And for those getting RWD, a bunch have already been scheduled for delivery starting next week. They must have been stockpiling so as not to hit the 200k trigger by 6/30.

Thank you, stessier... I just moved our insurance from Plymouth Rock to Safeco a couple weeks ago... it was Plymouth Rock that was requiring the VIN and Safeco had quoted me an add'l $700/yr to add the Tesla.

Did your premium change much from the quote after you gave them a VIN? I figure mine will be slightly more since I added AWD.

I don't have a VIN yet.... I had to place an order and it will be 3 months. The irony of placing this order the same day Tesla opened the flood gates is not lost on me.

[Zarathud]

After you're done convincing Jeff to get an electric car, why don't you jump over to R&P and get Rip to vote for a Democrat.

LOL

JeffV likely catheterizes his kids for trips.

[DD*]

I make no secret of the fact that I'm not a Musk fan (mostly because I consider him just another crony capitalist sucking on the govt tit) and this sort of thing just tends to reinforce my feelings that he's a douche:

Tesla Used An Artist's Work Without Permission And Elon Musk Was Unsurprisingly An Ass About It

[mori]

If you are doing long road trips, the cars range should exceed your bladder. Have to p, stop to fill up, do your business, and back on the road in less than 10 minutes. Now Tesla you bust your ass to get to the extent of the range and now you have to lollygag for 90+ minutes to charge till you have enough range to get to your next p break. That sort of road trip most of us have not had experience since the interstate system was built in the 50's.

Not sure if this question has been answered in this thread yet. How are electric vehicle operators paying for road use since they do not pay gas tax?

[Zaxxon]

Yeah, he doesn't come off great in that exchange. But to be clear, what they used was another artist's rendition of something this guy originally drew, they do have permission for the actual art they used, and they have offered to compensate this guy.

Could have been a lot less assholish about it, but...

[Zaxxon]

If you are doing long road trips, the cars range should exceed your bladder. Have to p, stop to fill up, do your business, and back on the road in less than 10 minutes. Now Tesla you bust your ass to get to the extent of the range and now you have to lollygag for 90+ minutes to charge till you have enough range to get to your next p break. That sort of road trip most of us have not had experience since the interstate system was built in the 50's.

Not sure if this question has been answered in this thread yet. How are electric vehicle operators paying for road use since they do not pay gas tax?

Your scenario is incorrect. No supercharger stop will take 90 minutes. On average you're looking at 15-50 min or so depending on how dense the Supercharger availability is where you're traveling.

Also, you and Jeff V aside, that's not how most people road trip. They're stopping for meals, potty breaks, sometimes just rest stops. For *most* people, as long as there are Superchargers on a route, it's not even a moderate additional stop time-it's about equivalent to what folks would do in a gasoline car anyway, (40ish minutes every 3-5 hours) just with the additional constraint that their stop location is set in advance wherever the Supercharger(s) may be.

As for road tax, first, recall that the gas tax does not fully pay for roads today as it's woefully inadequate from neglect over decades of not adjusting for inflation. Second, many jurisdictions (including mine) charge a separate annual EV fee to cover the failure to purchase gasoline.

[mori]

If you are doing long road trips, the cars range should exceed your bladder. Have to p, stop to fill up, do your business, and back on the road in less than 10 minutes. Now Tesla you bust your ass to get to the extent of the range and now you have to lollygag for 90+ minutes to charge till you have enough range to get to your next p break. That sort of road trip most of us have not had experience since the interstate system was built in the 50's.

Not sure if this question has been answered in this thread yet. How are electric vehicle operators paying for road use since they do not pay gas tax?

Your scenario is incorrect. No supercharger stop will take 90 minutes. On average you're looking at 15-50 min or so depending on how dense the Supercharger availability is where you're traveling.

Also, you and Jeff V aside, that's not how most people road trip. They're stopping for meals, potty breaks, sometimes just rest stops. For *most* people, as long as there are Superchargers on a route, it's not even a moderate additional stop time-it's about equivalent to what folks would do in a gasoline car anyway, (40ish minutes every 3-5 hours) just with the additional constraint that their stop location is set in advance wherever the Supercharger(s) may be.

As for road tax, first, recall that the gas tax does not fully pay for roads today as it's woefully inadequate from neglect over decades of not adjusting for inflation. Second, many jurisdictions (including mine) charge a separate annual EV fee to cover the failure to purchase gasoline.

How much duration will a 15 minute supercharge get you?

I think Jeff V and I are in the majority when it comes to road trips. When you gotta get somewhere, you get there as fast as you can. None of this leisurely, since we gotta wait for our car to charge, why don't we have a look around stuff. You are talking about stopping at point A, what is around point A while we wait for our car to charge. It may be interesting, but you are not getting to your destination.

Gas tax does not cover road maintenance since vehicles are more fuel efficient per vehicle mile so the tax has not kept up with the improved effciencies. With EV vehicles, there must be at least a flat annual fee equal to what an average ICE vehicle would pay in gas tax even though that is not enough per any vehicle to maintain roads. But at least it would be fair for everyone.

[DD*]

If you are doing long road trips, the cars range should exceed your bladder. Have to p, stop to fill up, do your business, and back on the road in less than 10 minutes. Now Tesla you bust your ass to get to the extent of the range and now you have to lollygag for 90+ minutes to charge till you have enough range to get to your next p break. That sort of road trip most of us have not had experience since the interstate system was built in the 50's.

Not sure if this question has been answered in this thread yet. How are electric vehicle operators paying for road use since they do not pay gas tax?

Your scenario is incorrect. No supercharger stop will take 90 minutes. On average you're looking at 15-50 min or so depending on how dense the Supercharger availability is where you're traveling.

Also, you and Jeff V aside, that's not how most people road trip. They're stopping for meals, potty breaks, sometimes just rest stops. For *most* people, as long as there are Superchargers on a route, it's not even a moderate additional stop time-it's about equivalent to what folks would do in a gasoline car anyway, (40ish minutes every 3-5 hours) just with the additional constraint that their stop location is set in advance wherever the Supercharger(s) may be.

As for road tax, first, recall that the gas tax does not fully pay for roads today as it's woefully inadequate from neglect over decades of not adjusting for inflation. Second, many jurisdictions (including mine) charge a separate annual EV fee to cover the failure to purchase gasoline.

How much duration will a 15 minute supercharge get you?

I think Jeff V and I are in the majority when it comes to road trips. When you gotta get somewhere, you get there as fast as you can. None of this leisurely, since we gotta wait for our car to charge, why don't we have a look around stuff. You are talking about stopping at point A, what is around point A while we wait for our car to charge. It may be interesting, but you are not getting to your destination.

Gas tax does not cover road maintenance since vehicles are more fuel efficient per vehicle mile so the tax has not kept up with the improved effciencies. With EV vehicles, there must be at least a flat annual fee equal to what an average ICE vehicle would pay in gas tax even though that is not enough per any vehicle to maintain roads. But at least it would be fair for everyone.

FWIW, I'm with you guys - when I'm a road trip, I'm getting from point A to point B as expeditiously as possible. That means no gas stops until under a quarter tank, no dicking around, etc. A sightseeing trip is a different story... but we don't do those very often any more.

[LawBeefaroni]

No road trip plan survives first contact with kids.


FWIW, my friend with the P90 drove it to Florida no problem, with kids. However, when he went to out West, he took the combustion vehicle because the route didn't have enough chargers or something.

[coopasonic]

Two quick notes:

1) Tesla says they made 5k model 3s last week
2) none of them appear to have been mine

Dammit Elon!

[Zaxxon]

[RunningMn9]

So I got a chance to check out my friend's Model 3 today, and I am an unfortunate combination of impressed and sad. On the impressed side, my concern with a car of this nature was that if you are spending $40k+ for a car, where you know you are paying a premium for new technology, that the fit and finish of the car wouldn't feel like you were spending $40k+ for a car. I wouldn't want to drop $45K on a vehicle and have it feel like a Corolla on the inside. That concern was dismissed immediately. The interior genuinely felt like the price tag suggested. Very comfortable leather interior.

I didn't even realize that the entire roof was glass (except for the crossbeam), despite the fact that the sun was shining right in my face. The all-glass roof is magnificent.

The remote controls you have via the phone app are pretty slick, and we were intrigued to note that the car reached 115 degrees in there today, before the car decided on its own to drop that into the 90s. He doesn't have some of the software features (like Summon), so we couldn't play with those.

What made me sad, was that the car is not designed for a gentleman of my height. While the gigantic tablet display is vastly better than I thought it would be after seeing pictures of the interior, the landscape orientation and the way it sticks out would come in direct conflict with my stupid knees. Moving the seat back would be perfectly fine for me to drive comfortably, if not for my knee hitting the display.

I'd have to experience driving with it a little bit to figure out if I could overcome it. My friend got the car in black, and it is a beautiful car.

[Isgrimnur]

How tall are you, Sasquatch?

[Zaxxon]

That's a bummer, RM9!