The Former Trump Presidency Thread

[gbasden]

Trump supporters are mistakenly attacking LeVar Burton.

It's amazing how a single year can lead to a complete collapse of faith in humanity.

[Jaymann]

Trump supporters are mistakenly attacking LeVar Burton.

"Star Trek" co-star Brent Spiner was there with the best joke of the day:
21h

Brent Spiner
✔
@BrentSpiner
If you cared about our President, you’d change your name.

[GreenGoo]

Honestly, I have a fair amount of sympathy for Alabama Republicans who are considering still voting for Moore. First, obviously Alabama is overwhelmingly pro-life. If you believe (as most Alabamians (Alabamans? do), that abortion is essentially the intentional murder of a human life, then a vote for Jones is a vote for someone who will generally vote to approve policies strengthening widespread state-sanctioned murder. Even if you 100% believe the allegations against Roy Moore, what's more important - his personal predations, or the lives of hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of developing human lives?

Second, if the situation were reversed and this was a Democrat running for Senate in Massachusetts, I would probably be similarly torn. Electing a Republican senator (in my view) would make it more likely that tens of millions of people lose health insurance (with all the human suffering that that would entail), that a horrible tax plan with awful long-term impacts pass, and that a million other horrible policy outcomes happen. It's at least defensible to view the policy outcomes as more important than even really terrible personal crimes.

Oh, there's no question they would have a dilemma, but that's also part of the problem. I get that abortion can be a sticky issue even with non-religious people, but it's mostly settled law in western culture. We are already fairly restrictive in terms of the age of the fetus. We are not going back to banning it, for various legitimate and important reasons. It's just not going to happen. And if it were to happen despite my thoughts, it would only last maybe 1/2 a generation before the problems associated with unwanted pregnancies and back alley abortions would flourish enough that they would need to be dealt with on a societal level. Again.

The problems with abortion is that people don't like it and think it's morally wrong. It's an abstract problem. The problems with banning abortions are very real, very concrete, very negative society level problems.

So, sure, Alabama has a dilemma. But that's part of why Alabama is a problem. That they're willing to put a child molester in a position of power in order to not face the cultural realities of abortion is not a valid response to that dilemma.

[El Guapo]

Honestly, I have a fair amount of sympathy for Alabama Republicans who are considering still voting for Moore. First, obviously Alabama is overwhelmingly pro-life. If you believe (as most Alabamians (Alabamans? do), that abortion is essentially the intentional murder of a human life, then a vote for Jones is a vote for someone who will generally vote to approve policies strengthening widespread state-sanctioned murder. Even if you 100% believe the allegations against Roy Moore, what's more important - his personal predations, or the lives of hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of developing human lives?

Second, if the situation were reversed and this was a Democrat running for Senate in Massachusetts, I would probably be similarly torn. Electing a Republican senator (in my view) would make it more likely that tens of millions of people lose health insurance (with all the human suffering that that would entail), that a horrible tax plan with awful long-term impacts pass, and that a million other horrible policy outcomes happen. It's at least defensible to view the policy outcomes as more important than even really terrible personal crimes.

Oh, there's no question they would have a dilemma, but that's also part of the problem. I get that abortion can be a sticky issue even with non-religious people, but it's mostly settled law in western culture. We are already fairly restrictive in terms of the age of the fetus. We are not going back to banning it, for various legitimate and important reasons. It's just not going to happen. And if it were to happen despite my thoughts, it would only last maybe 1/2 a generation before the problems associated with unwanted pregnancies and back alley abortions would flourish enough that they would need to be dealt with on a societal level. Again.

The problems with abortion is that people don't like it and think it's morally wrong. It's an abstract problem. The problems with banning abortions are very real, very concrete, very negative society level problems.

So, sure, Alabama has a dilemma. But that's part of why Alabama is a problem. That they're willing to put a child molester in a position of power in order to not face the cultural realities of abortion is not a valid response to that dilemma.

I agree. But "the Alabama electorate is very wrong on the issues" is a whole separate long-term thing. I'm just saying that if I believed what the Alabama electorate does at the moment, I would be torn about this election too.

[GreenGoo]

True. If you believed that God says it's ok for a godly man to rape or attempt to rape teenagers, you'd also be wrong.

I guess my point is that I have little sympathy for the "difficult" decision Alabamans are facing. Elect a child molester because "reasons"? Choke on it.

[Holman]

Most of these voters will deal with it the typical way: by choosing (consciously or unconsciously) to believe that the worst of the accusations are lies. Moore is denying it all, and even a skeptically minded Republican can split the difference and just decide that he was icky but not criminal, and anyway he has been married for decades so he is probably right with God now.

Very few will go into the booth and understand that they are voting for a child-molester. Instead, they're voting for someone "controversial," but hey that's just politics, right?

[El Guapo]

True. If you believed that God says it's ok for a godly man to rape or attempt to rape teenagers, you'd also be wrong.

I guess my point is that I have little sympathy for the "difficult" decision Alabamans are facing. Elect a child molester because "reasons"? Choke on it.

I guess "sympathy" is the wrong word. A lot of people are asking "how could Alabama voters even be considering Moore at this point?". I'm just saying that it's not at all crazy to be considering voting for him, given the (objectively crazy) things that Alabama voters believe. And at the same token, that Alabama voters are (given current polls) seriously considering electing Doug Jones - given what they collectively believe - is at least as crazy.

[GreenGoo]

I get it. It's at least an understandable response to the situation, given what we know of Alabama as a whole and the situation.

Whereas the murky depths of the POTUS seem to be unknowable. Sure, you can predict general behaviour, but what will set him off, or what will be his focus today is basically unknowable.

He's fluid dynamics with cavitation. We know where the water will end up, but we are missing some fundamental details about how it gets there.

[Kraken]

Politics is about power first, and policy positions second. Personal integrity comes somewhere behind that.

MA voters kept Ted Kennedy in the Senate for 47 years despite his womanizing and probably being guilty of negligent homicide. He was far from being a saint; he was also a highly effective senator, a social justice crusader, and an accomplished orator.

I'm not equating Moore with Kennedy, but I can understand how voters will forgive, or at least overlook, a candidate's personal failings.

[El Guapo]

Politics is about power first, and policy positions second. Personal integrity comes somewhere behind that.

MA voters kept Ted Kennedy in the Senate for 47 years despite his womanizing and probably being guilty of negligent homicide. He was far from being a saint; he was also a highly effective senator, a social justice crusader, and an accomplished orator.

I'm not equating Moore with Kennedy, but I can understand how voters will forgive, or at least overlook, a candidate's personal failings.

That's also about evolving social norms, however. I don't think Kennedy, Lion of the Senate that he was to the people of Massachusetts, would have survived the 2017 reckoning on this type of conduct.

[Captain Caveman]

Politics is about power first, and policy positions second. Personal integrity comes somewhere behind that.

MA voters kept Ted Kennedy in the Senate for 47 years despite his womanizing and probably being guilty of negligent homicide. He was far from being a saint; he was also a highly effective senator, a social justice crusader, and an accomplished orator.

I'm not equating Moore with Kennedy, but I can understand how voters will forgive, or at least overlook, a candidate's personal failings.

That's also about evolving social norms, however. I don't think Kennedy, Lion of the Senate that he was to the people of Massachusetts, would have survived the 2017 reckoning on this type of conduct.

He might if he was a Republican in Alabama...

[Max Peck]

What Trump Really Told Kislyak After Comey Was Canned

During a May 10 meeting in the Oval Office, the president betrayed his intelligence community by leaking the content of a classified, and highly sensitive, Israeli intelligence operation to two high-ranking Russian envoys, Sergey Kislyak and Sergey Lavrov. This is what he told them—and the ramifications.

On a dark night at the tail end of last winter, just a month after the inauguration of the new American president, an evening when only a sickle moon hung in the Levantine sky, two Israeli Sikorsky CH-53 helicopters flew low across Jordan and then, staying under the radar, veered north toward the twisting ribbon of shadows that was the Euphrates River. On board, waiting with a professional stillness as they headed into the hostile heart of Syria, were Sayeret Matkal commandos, the Jewish state’s elite counterterrorism force, along with members of the technological unit of the Mossad, its foreign-espionage agency. Their target: an ISIS cell that was racing to get a deadly new weapon thought to have been devised by Ibrahim al-Asiri, the Saudi national who was al-Qaeda’s master bombmaker in Yemen.

It was a covert mission whose details were reconstructed for Vanity Fair by two experts on Israeli intelligence operations. It would lead to the unnerving discovery that ISIS terrorists were working on transforming laptop computers into bombs that could pass undetected through airport security. U.S. Homeland Security officials—quickly followed by British authorities—banned passengers traveling from an accusatory list of Muslim-majority countries from carrying laptops and other portable electronic devices larger than a cell phone on arriving planes. It would not be until four tense months later, as foreign airports began to comply with new, stringent American security directives, that the ban would be lifted on an airport-by-airport basis.

In the secretive corridors of the American espionage community, the Israeli mission was praised by knowledgeable officials as a casebook example of a valued ally’s hard-won field intelligence being put to good, arguably even lifesaving, use.

Yet this triumph would be overshadowed by an astonishing conversation in the Oval Office in May, when an intemperate President Trump revealed details about the classified mission to Russia’s foreign minister, Sergey V. Lavrov, and Sergey I. Kislyak, then Russia’s ambassador to the U.S. Along with the tempest of far-reaching geopolitical consequences that raged as a result of the president’s disclosure, fresh blood was spilled in his long-running combative relationship with the nation’s clandestine services. Israel—as well as America’s other allies—would rethink its willingness to share raw intelligence, and pretty much the entire Free World was left shaking its collective head in bewilderment as it wondered, not for the first time, what was going on with Trump and Russia. (In fact, Trump’s disturbing choice to hand over highly sensitive intelligence to the Russians is now a focus of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Trump’s relationship with Russia, both before and after the election.) In the hand-wringing aftermath, the entire event became, as is so often the case with spy stories, a tale about trust and betrayal.

Hrm, do we go with:

• But her emails! or
• Well, when the President does it, that means it is not illegal.

[Holman]

First thing this morning, the WH press corps was informed that POTUS had scheduled a full day of meetings and important phone calls.

Less than an hour later, it was confirmed that that he had left for 18 holes of golf.

[malchior]

First thing this morning, the WH press corps was informed that POTUS had scheduled a full day of meetings and important phone calls.

Less than an hour later, it was confirmed that that he had left for 18 holes of golf.

After they forced the pool to print a correction to their story about his playing golf.

[Grifman]

The problems with abortion is that people don't like it and think it's morally wrong. It's an abstract problem. The problems with banning abortions are very real, very concrete, very negative society level problems.

If you believe abortion is wrong, it's not abstract - it's just as real as anything else. I could just easily say that abortion is an abstraction for those who support it but have never actually seen what happens to a baby when it is aborted. That's pretty real also.

[GreenGoo]

If you believe abortion is wrong, it's not abstract - it's just as real as anything else.

What concrete problems does someone else's abortion cause you, Grif?

I know that being against abortion is a very real, morale problem for some people, and that if I accept the premise, the death of a child is concrete. What I was referring to was what problems are caused by legalized abortion versus making abortions illegal to society, that would potentially need to be addressed.

The problems caused by unwanted babies to society have been documented. What are the problems that having legalized abortion cause?

Think of it this way. If everyone who was against abortion suddenly changed their minds, what problems with abortion would still exist? I'm honestly asking here, because I can't think of any.

If everyone who was supportive of legalized abortion suddenly changed their minds, what problems with a lack of abortion would still exist? Crime, increased usage of social services, back alley abortions, increase in poverty. These are all well documented and increase the burden on society as a whole.

That's what I mean about abstraction versus concrete.

I'm not trying to undermine your position as irrational or even incorrect. I'm saying your position results in unwanted children. Often poor, often neglected, often criminal. They don't magically become wanted because it's illegal to not give birth to them.

[Holman]

Trump appears to believe that the F-35 is literally invisible.

"The Navy, I can tell you, we're ordering ships, with the Air Force I can tell you we're ordering a lot of planes, in particular the F-35 fighter jet, which is like almost like an invisible fighter. I was asking the Air Force guys, I said, how good is this plane?

They said, well, sir, you can't see it. I said but in a fight. You know, in a fight, like I watch on the movies. The fight, they're fighting. How good is this? They say, well, it wins every time because the enemy cannot see it. Even if it's right next to them, it can't see it. I said that helps. That's a good thing."

As ugly as his ignorance is, the worst part is making up a dialogue that puts it into someone else's mouth.

[Chaz]

For as much as that plane is costing, the only way it could justify the cost is if it actually was invisible.

[malchior]

Now he is tweeting about ACA premiums skyrocketing. I have to imagine the Flynn flip is what set him off. What a day he has had.

[Smoove_B]

From President Bush in 2008:

Thanksgiving is a time for families and friends to gather together and express gratitude for all that we have been given, the freedoms we enjoy, and the loved ones who enrich our lives. We recognize that all of these blessings, and life itself, come not from the hand of man but from Almighty God.

From President Trump in 2017:

ObamaCare premiums are going up, up, up, just as I have been predicting for two years. ObamaCare is OWNED by the Democrats, and it is a disaster. But do not worry. Even though the Dems want to Obstruct, we will Repeal & Replace right after Tax Cuts!

It was a good run America, but we're done.

[Grifman]

If you believe abortion is wrong, it's not abstract - it's just as real as anything else.

What concrete problems does someone else's abortion cause you, Grif?

First off, I think you misunderstand what I was objecting to in your post. I do not deny that making abortion illegal would cause another set of problems. What I was denying is that denying abortion was only abstract for those that are pro-life (because it may not impact them personally and directly), while those that are pro-choice have to deal with real life consequences of unwanted children (crime, poverty, etc).'

Secondly, "abtraction" is a terrible criteria for deciding if something is right or wrong. After all the plight of the Royhinga people in Myanmar is abstract to both of us, it will have no personal impact on you or me or the USA. Yet I suspect each of us considers what is going on morally wrong and hopes our nation does what it can to pressure Myanmar on this issue. So does "abstraction" really matter?

Think of it this way. If everyone who was against abortion suddenly changed their minds, what problems with abortion would still exist? I'm honestly asking here, because I can't think of any.

I don't understand your question. If everyone against abortion changes their minds, nothing changes because abortion is legal anyway.

Are you trying to ask what are the costs vs benefits to society of a legal vs. illegal abortion? Are you asking if the benefits of being pro-life are "abstract" while the costs are "real"? Is this what you are driving at?

If everyone who was supportive of legalized abortion suddenly changed their minds, what problems with a lack of abortion would still exist? Crime, increased usage of social services, back alley abortions, increase in poverty. These are all well documented and increase the burden on society as a whole.

If we got rid of all poor people, then a lot of crime, increase use of social services and poverty would go away also. Yet you don't advocate for that, naturally. So this would not seem to be the issue.

That's what I mean about abstraction versus concrete.

Death is just as real as poverty and crime. You just don't see because it hides behind the walls of an abortion clinic. If you watch some videos of abortion survivors, the procedure certainly was "real" for them, much like the persecution of the Rohyinga is a real to them though both might be considered abstract to each of us.

I'm not trying to undermine your position as irrational or even incorrect. I'm saying your position results in unwanted children. Often poor, often neglected, often criminal. They don't magically become wanted because it's illegal to not give birth to them.

Yet, if life is so terrible, why don't all of these unwanted children and poor people commit suicide? I don''t hear of a lot of poor people or "unwanted" children saying that they wish they had been aborted. Are you saying their lives aren't worth living?

[Grifman]

Now he is tweeting about ACA premiums skyrocketing. I have to imagine the Flynn flip is what set him off. What a day he has had.

The premiums are skyrocketing largely because of his actions. Idiot.

[El Guapo]

For as much as that plane is costing, the only way it could justify the cost is if it actually was invisible.

This is from the briefing file that they gave Trump:

[Smoove_B]

Never mind all that - it's Trump's 3rd day in a row playing golf (today with Tiger Woods) and his 101st day at a Trump owned property. For reference, that's about 1/3 of his time in office.

[malchior]

Never mind all that - it's Trump's 3rd day in a row playing golf (today with Tiger Woods) and his 101st day at a Trump owned property. For reference, that's about 1/3 of his time in office.

If I were king of news dashboards - I'd have a visualization of this number, the number of days that Obama had golfed in the same period into his Presidency, and Trump's golf/vacation tweets about Obama up at least once a day just to punch home what a hypocritical, racist piece of shit he is.

[Chaz]

Never mind all that - it's Trump's 3rd day in a row playing golf (today with Tiger Woods) and his 101st day at a Trump owned property. For reference, that's about 1/3 of his time in office.

If I were king of news dashboards - I'd have a visualization of this number, the number of days that Obama had golfed in the same period into his Presidency, and Trump's golf/vacation tweets about Obama up at least once a day just to punch home what a hypocritical, racist piece of shit he is.

Well, I think this is the first time he's admitting to playing golf, so progress? Of course, he's mentioning it by way of bragging that he's playing with Tiger Woods, so still pretty childlike. Maybe also trying to say "look, I have black friends, so I can't be racist."

[Smoove_B]

I was taking it as he's now fully in "I don't give a fuck" territory as he likely can't believe he's been allowed to maintain this charade for almost a year.

[Skinypupy]

Pardon me while I go vomit.

Jeff Mateer has called transgender children part of “Satan’s plan,” dismissed same-sex marriage as “debauchery,” and asserted that the constitutional separation of church and state is a myth. He may soon receive a lifetime appointment to the federal judiciary. In September, President Donald Trump nominated Mateer to the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas with the strong backing of Sen. Ted Cruz.

Mateer’s retrograde views are dangerous on their own. What’s more dangerous is that, if confirmed, he would be in a position to adjudicate claims brought by his former employer, First Liberty Institute. Located in Plano, Texas, the law firm routinely attacks laws protecting reproductive health and LGBTQ people. Plano is within the Eastern District, and Mateer would not be required to recuse himself from suits brought by First Liberty. Quite the opposite: He would be in an excellent position to work with First Liberty to enact his alarming agenda.

Yeah...this will end well.

[Smoove_B]

I hope there's photos of him having an intimate moment with a pumpkin and they end up on Twitter next week.

[malchior]

Much President. Very humble.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 93441?s=17

[Octavious]

Everyday I have to stop myself from ranting on fb. Today was especially hard. Read his tweet on the times today. Seriously I would pay money to watch birds peck him to death. A lot if money.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[Smoove_B]

Sorry if this puts you over the edge - someone on Twitter points out Trump's racist behavioral patterns. Trump's reply to that Tweet?

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

[malchior]

Sorry if this puts you over the edge - someone on Twitter points out Trump's racist behavioral patterns. Trump's reply to that Tweet?

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

A lot of theories on that one - one that he meant to post a new thread and accidentally replied. Aka some people think he wasn't intending to reply though I'm not sure how that makes it better. Whatever the case the WH refused to answer repeated questions about what the tweet meant.

[$iljanus]

Sorry if this puts you over the edge - someone on Twitter points out Trump's racist behavioral patterns. Trump's reply to that Tweet?

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

A lot of theories on that one - one that he meant to post a new thread and accidentally replied. Aka some people think he wasn't intending to reply though I'm not sure how that makes it better. Whatever the case the WH refused to answer repeated questions about what the tweet meant.

His Twitter account was unattended and it was set to give that response when certain criteria are met until The Leader can give it his personal attention. Bringing up the blacks would qualify.

[Moliere]

Neo Nazi Furries support Trump



Mein Fürrer!

[Skinypupy]

Much President. Very humble.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 93441?s=17

Yeah, he's entirely full of shit. Shocking, I know.

Time magazine Tweets: The President is incorrect about how we choose Person of the Year. TIME does not comment on our choice until publication, which is December 6.

Funniest response: "Pretty sure that was a crank call from Kim Jong-un."

[Holman]

Think of what it means that there is nothing surprising about this.

[Scoop20906]

Donny is the world’s biggest troll. Once more are discussing something so meaningless. Even if it were true I could care either way why he lies so brazenly we are all talking about him. This must be his entire goal. Troll the f-ing world.

[Holman]

Donny is the world’s biggest troll. Once more are discussing something so meaningless. Even if it were true I could care either way why he lies so brazenly we are all talking about him. This must be his entire goal. Troll the f-ing world.

The rubes buy it, and they think TIME is lying.

After all, who are you gonna believe? The Man of the Year or some liberal magazine?

[Max Peck]

I would pay good money to rig Time's Person of the Year to be Robert Mueller. Just for the troll lulz.