Octopus Overlords

pr0ner wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 6:23 pm

Holman wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 4:54 pm

pr0ner wrote: Thu May 07, 2020 4:51 pm Jacob Wohl is going to wind up in jail for a long long time.

If I were a betting man, I'd make you a wager.

Well, he does already have one felony charge pending. I am sure that one of his badly executed attempts with Burkman to smear someone is going to go horribly awry and he'll commit another felony that's really going to do him in.

At least, one can hope.

Vice

Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman have turned themselves in to authorities for their alleged participation in a voter suppression scheme and were arraigned in their first court appearance on Thursday.

The tag-team of conservative trolls allegedly orchestrated a robocall that was aimed at voters in the metropolitan Detroit area and designed to dissuade people from voting, Nessel said. Her office says that nearly 12,000 calls were made in late August, and that similar robocalls tied to Burkman and Wohl were reported in other states including New York, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. It’s estimated that up to 85,000 calls were made.

Burkman, 54, and Wohl, 22, were each charged with four felony counts, including voter intimidation.
...
Richard Cunningham, the chief of the criminal division of the state attorney general’s office, requested a bond of $1 million, saying that Wohl and Burkman brought a film crew with them as they turned themselves in, and were flashing $100 bills “with the expectation they’ll pay the money and walk out the door.” Cunningham charged that they were making a “mockery” of the system.

Maaaaaaaybe this will finally get Jacob Wohl thrown in jail.

Sociopath says what?

As an aside, on Maddow the AG of Michigan related to her that many of the people arrested in the Whitmer murder plot were present at the armed mask protests at the capital earlier in the year and those protests were part of the militia's recruitment strategy.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 7379640320

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 9313243138

My Justice Department and Federal Law Enforcement announced...

Would someone please tell this motherfucker he does not own the Justice Department and Federal Law Enforcement?

On the positive side,

...I do not tolerate ANY extreme violence. Defending ALL Americans, even those who oppose and attack me, is what I will always do as your President!

May be the most clear expression of that sentiment I've seen from him yet.

malchior wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:46 pmWho wore it better?

At the risk of sounding stereotypical, when I see the mugshots, my brain is all:

Daryl, Daryl, Darrel, Dahryl, Daril, and Dwight ...

I absolutely love that they're being branded as right-wing terrorists and not just normal criminals.

A statement from the Sherriff who shared the stage with the terrorists at an event in May.

https://twitter.com/evanchill/status/13 ... 7063383040

Incredible example of a trend increasingly emerging into the open: law enforcement sympathy for right-wing armed groups. Michigan sheriff defends Whitmer plotters, saying they might have just been planning a citizens' felony arrest. "A lot of people are angry with the governor."

Good lord.

What a berk!

Huh. It's almost like we have heard about a wave of white supremacists invading law enforcement...

"Don't mind me. I'm just enacting a Citizen's Tax Garnishment of all the money in this bank."

Sheriff offices are the worst at this as they are elected political offices.

Pyperkub wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:26 pm Sheriff offices are the worst at this as they are elected political offices.

As opposed politically appointed police chiefs/supers?


Don't get me wrong, Sheriff's offices are often very bad but not sure that mayoral appointment is the solution.


Here we have the worst of both worlds, an elected Sheriff and appointed puppet superintendent in a one-party party system.

Probably should have stuck to the debates and fund-raising interviews.

hepcat wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:49 pm oof...Are we sure Lindsay isn't trying to lose?

Does a dog whistle lose in SC?

Im so tired of slow stuff. Slow webpages, slow graphics card, slow cpu, slow president.

DOJ Is now Melania's lawyer apparently. The absurdity is bottomless.

The U.S. Justice Department on Tuesday accused Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, author of a tell-all book about first lady Melania Trump, of breaking their nondisclosure agreement and asked a court to set aside profits from the book in a government trust.

In a complaint filed in U.S. District Court in Washington, Justice Department lawyers said Winston Wolkoff, a former aide who fell out with the first lady, failed to submit to government review a draft of her book, “Melania and Me: The Rise and Fall of My Friendship with the First Lady,” which offers an unflattering portrayal of President Donald Trump’s wife.

Lawyers for Winston Wolkoff were not immediately available to respond to a request for comment.

The complaint said the Justice Department has jurisdiction in the case because of the first lady’s traditional public role dating back to Martha Washington, wife of the first U.S. president, George Washington.

The government asked that any profits Winston Wolkoff might realize from the book and subsequent movie deal or documentaries be set aside into a “constructive trust,” with the monies ultimately going to the Treasury Department.

So, Indiana is showing its colors. The town where my kids go to school held a scarecrow contest. Two of the entries were vandalized - one resembling Trump, one resembling Obama. The Trump scarecrow was beheaded (the head still hasn't been found.) The Obama scarecrow was dressed in a prison jumpsuit and a noose placed around its neck.

Rural Indiana at its best.

in south-central Minnesota, my dad engaged a neighbor in political/religious conversation (i believe the opening question was "Why do Christians support Trump?") - the neighbor seemed shocked that he Would Even Go There and now the neighbors refuse to talk to my parents anymore.

Why do Homo Sapiens support Trump?

hitbyambulance wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:16 pm in south-central Minnesota, my dad engaged a neighbor in political/religious conversation (i believe the opening question was "Why do Christians support Trump?") - the neighbor seemed shocked that he Would Even Go There and now the neighbors refuse to talk to my parents anymore.

hitbyambulance wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:16 pm in south-central Minnesota, my dad engaged a neighbor in political/religious conversation (i believe the opening question was "Why do Christians support Trump?") - the neighbor seemed shocked that he Would Even Go There and now the neighbors refuse to talk to my parents anymore.

I'm guessing it was agree to disagree until you get to questioning why their afterlife centric live and live anti socialist limited government views are expressed by supporting a police state sponsored at the federal level for the sake of concentrating wealth.

This is only a guess.

It's hard for me to believe that there are so many of my fellow citizens out there that get violent just because somebody disagrees with their politics.
I realize there have always been spirited debates about differences but it does seem Donald Trump has stirred up violent masses like never before.
Of course this is coming from the only non Trump supporter in Arkansas.

dbt1949 wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:48 am It's hard for me to believe that there are so many of my fellow citizens out there that get violent just because somebody disagrees with their politics.
I realize there have always been spirited debates about differences but it does seem Donald Trump has stirred up violent masses like never before.
Of course this is coming from the only non Trump supporter in Arkansas.

All that hate gets to stew and foment in the anonymous echo chamber of social media. By the time it manifests in meat space it's weaponized.

Before social media/Internet it generally made contact with the "enemy" in meat space before it was so virulent. Easier to manage civil discourse and find common ground that way.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:09 am

dbt1949 wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:48 am It's hard for me to believe that there are so many of my fellow citizens out there that get violent just because somebody disagrees with their politics.
I realize there have always been spirited debates about differences but it does seem Donald Trump has stirred up violent masses like never before.
Of course this is coming from the only non Trump supporter in Arkansas.

All that hate gets to stew and foment in the anonymous echo chamber of social media. By the time it manifests in meat space it's weaponized.

Before social media/Internet it generally made contact with the "enemy" in meat space before it was so virulent. Easier to manage civil discourse and find common ground that way.

I honestly don't know. Being part of social media/the OO echo chamber, I can't say how I'd behave or interpret without it. Before 2015, I'd have never cut off people for political discourse short of being confessed Nazis. Now I do it too quickly for my own comfort. Is that a reaction to what the GOP has become or is it a reaction to becoming hypersensitive to things that I think are wanton ignorance? I must confess I have developed zero tolerance for bumpersticker politics spread by thoughtless pressing of a share button in a world that is increasingly expressing itself in Twitter bites. And zero tolerance is a "both side-ism" for me.

All that said, I still can't imagine what would turn me to violence and don't want to. I can foresee the movement to Civil Disobedience. Five years ago, even that seemed inconceivable, even as emotionally supported the Occupy movements from years before.

Trumpists are the best. The former Director of National Intelligence indicates he doesn't understand a key intelligence process...or is promoting conspiracy theories...or both. Cool.

https://twitter.com/RichardGrenell/stat ... 5361726466

Joe Biden & other Obama officials unmasked incoming Trump officials DURING THE TRANSITION - when they should have been doing a peaceful transition of power.

That is interesting framing. One might almost suppose that he's establishing a narrative where there is a precedent for refusing to engage in a peaceful transition of power.

Max Peck wrote: Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:15 pm

Joe Biden & other Obama officials unmasked incoming Trump officials DURING THE TRANSITION - when they should have been doing a peaceful transition of power.

That is interesting framing. One might almost suppose that he's establishing a narrative where there is a precedent for refusing to engage in a peaceful transition of power.

Well I guess it could be bent that way but it still is bad framing. Incoming Trump officials were unmasked. However they couldn't be targeted on the basis that they were Trump officials -- since they weren't unmasked yet. Instead it means they were doing something that caused an intelligence agency to request their identity be unmasked. But damn logic.

Mnuchin blathering on CNBC, all I see is this:

I spent the better part of my life largely indifferent to politics. I didn't really care who was running things because they were all so similar. In the last ~10 years it became very clear to me that there are distinct differences emerging that had nothing to do with policies and were more about morality.

I don't know if it's because I'm getting older, or if I'm paying more attention, or if there's just more coverage.

With Trump laying bare the GOP agenda and saying all the quiet parts out loud, and them standing behind him in full force without any repercussion, I worry for the future of the nation. Not just because of policies, but because of the morality involved.

• I used to assume there was a coincidence in racists favoring the Republican party - as in they just found the Democratic agenda in opposition and Republicans were the default. I don't anymore. With everything being done and said, it's become crystal clear that there's a strong racist streak in the GOP side that has been exposed to the light and it didn't wither. It got stronger. I'm not saying everyone who's a Republican is a racist, but - well - they're backing people who rub elbows with them knowingly.
• I never once thought there was a way to "break" the courts. I had some measure of faith that there would always be a bastion of relative impartiality there. Facts would matter and rational thinking prevailed. Society would march on. Instead, it seems, it's possible for special interests to dump mountains of money into the process to get the people they believe will favor them into position to do just that - and the Senate spends considerable effort to block (a hundred?) nominees of special significance, in addition to a Supreme Court justice, during Obama's tenure just so they could pack the court in their favor and break the balance.
• Talking out of both sides of your mouth is an expected political trait. Both sides do it. I've just never seen such blatant and open hypocrisy as I have in the last four years, culminating in these last few weeks of complete absence of character on the GOP side. They worked really hard to establish a precedent when it came to election year SCOTUS nominations and wanted to set it in stone, then shattered it the second it became inconvenient to their agenda without hesitation.
• The campaign of willful ignorance is hurting my soul, deep down inside. Seeing people reject science in favor of "alternative facts" with no basis in reality feels like something out of the Dark Ages.
• I've come to discover that in many places, Republican is a default political party not by specific choice, but because people are basically raised to believe Democrats are vile and/or subhuman - something to be hated. See also: Trump's kids actually saying Democrats aren't even people. This is a deeply troubling concept, that vast numbers of people are so eager to dehumanize someone because they have a different viewpoint.
• The hate Republicans seem to have for Democrats is unbelievable. Democrats may hate Republicans because of what they're doing, but I don't think they hate them just for being Republicans. I don't remember seeing anyone on the Blue side gloating about "drinking conservative tears" when Obama was elected (I may have missed it if it did) - but that exact sentiment ("drinking liberal tears") seems to be a driving force for a lot of Republicans... to see their opposition broken, hurt, and ruined. That's not a political view. That's being a disgusting human being.
• Being Republican seems to have crossed a line from being a political party to becoming a way of life, a cult. Very often there's no way to talk rationally with them. The "death cult" of Trump is unbelievable. People suffering under his policies, still standing up for him. People willing to sacrifice their elders to him. People willing to abandon sanity for him.
• The party that tends to be more openly religious and vote by their beliefs seems to have given up and backs a man who is everything that they should be against, all rolled up into one convenient package. Dude cheated on his wife with a porn star, robbed his own charity, cheated his students, envies dictators, and is the embodiment of narcissism ... and Christians are still proud of him.

There's more I'm feeling, but it's mostly rambling disappointment in humanity. I know, absolutely, that not everyone who wears a Red pin fits all of these statements. Some more than others, and maybe some not at all. I know that not everyone who identifies as a Republican feels and follows the same things I listed above.

To those people, the ones who are actually willing to sit down and have a rational debate or listen to an alternative view, thank you. To those Republicans who have seen their party go to absolute shit in the last four years and abandon any notion of being the "conservative" party, I feel sorry for you. I've seen a number of folks here post about their own disappointment in the party that they affiliated themselves with, and I appreciate your willingness to look beyond the color on your ballot.

I don't specifically identify myself as a Democrat. I think they're a disorganized, wishy-washy lot of people who generally mean well but can't get their shit together. I don't agree with all of their policies, but I do with some of them - probably more than I do the Republicans.

Given the choice between the two parties I don't actually see a choice.

America needs a third - and maybe even a fourth - real option. It's become clear that a two-party system is deeply flawed. In Maine we've started using Ranked Choice voting, and I think that if we did that on a national scale, people could vote more with their conscience and policy without fear of "wasting" their vote.

Is it possible to fix the political system and restore a semblance of balance? Is there hope for the future of America? Can there be a "Fiscal Conservative" party again?

I'm just feeling really stressed out right now. I've been having physical symptoms of stress - headaches, back aches, depression. I didn't sleep well at all last night, haven't in weeks really, and am deeply worried about the world we're creating that I have to hand off to my kids. I expect it'll only get worse as we approach November 3rd, and may not get better until after January 20th - if at all.

Paingod wrote:The hate Republicans seem to have for Democrats is unbelievable. Democrats may hate Republicans because of what they're doing, but I don't think they hate them just for being Republicans. I don't remember seeing anyone on the Blue side gloating about "drinking conservative tears" when Obama was elected (I may have missed it if it did) - but that exact sentiment ("drinking liberal tears") seems to be a driving force for a lot of Republicans... to see their opposition broken, hurt, and ruined. That's not a political view. That's being a disgusting human being.

This is the thing that troubles me the most. I remember a time when arguments between the two parties was just policy differences, and I could sit down and have a friendly debate over lunch about taxes or foreign policy. I couldn't imagine doing that today with most of the Trump supporters I know.

And in the rare occasions I have had conversations with people about "LIBRULS" they really can't name anything of substance that explains their hatred. I've mentioned it before, but I actually had my mom yell at me because Hillary was proposing free college tuition. In what world would she rather her grandkids be saddled with years of debt rather than get a free education? It's not even rational.

In my real life, I don't associate with toxic people, and to me that entire mindset is toxic. The party is built on hatred towards the "other," fear of "the other," or some combination thereof. They don't stand for anything, they just oppose everything. And I've seen really good people sucked into this cult mentality and turn into things that they are not.

Ranked-choice voting for state and local races is on the ballot in MA. I have no idea if it's favored to pass or not. I voted Yes, so probably not given my history as a harbinger of lost causes.

Kraken wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:07 am Ranked-choice voting for state and local races is on the ballot in MA. I have no idea if it's favored to pass or not. I voted Yes, so probably not given my history as a harbinger of lost causes.

Yeah, got my ballots yesterday. Easy choices:

(1) Question 1 would prevent auto-makers from making their computer diagnostics stuff proprietary, to allow non-dealer repair shops to do maintenance work on cars. Easy yes, notwithstanding automaker scaremonger propaganda.
(2) Question 2- ranked choice voting. Easy yes.
(3) Question 3 gave me a good laugh. Basically a non-binding resolution instructing my congressional rep to support a transition to 100% renewable energy within 20 years while saving jobs. I support renewable energy, but the phrasing of the question is stupid - do I want my rep to support something that is only good and has no downsides? Kind of tempted to vote no just because its a nonbinding stupid question.
(4) Question 4 is kind of the same thing, though I forget what the nonbinding resolution would be telling my rep to do.

This is a very entertaining read: Some Shit Is Going Down In Alaska, Man.

Far too convoluted to summarize, so here are random excerpts:

Berkowitz, then the mayor of Anchorage, had allegedly posted his “male genitalia” to an “underage girl’s website,”

Blakeley, the cookie-maker, was apparently holding onto some personal angst from the not-especially-recent revelation that her daughter, @angelbbx2, had previously made money as a paid escort

Athens sent Berkowitz what can only be described as one of the most unhinged, boiling-angry voicemails ever recorded, in which she explicitly threatened to kill him and his wife

There would seem to be more going on here than a garden-variety antisemite reporter landing the scoop of a lifetime.

So there’s a non-zero chance, then, that this mayor was brought down in a psyop perpetrated by a COVID-denying diner owner, a booze-cookie-maker eager for attention, a rampaging blob of Facebook crazies, and an QAnon-adjacent TV reporter scorned?

Paingod wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:51 am
There's more I'm feeling, but it's mostly rambling disappointment in humanity. I know, absolutely, that not everyone who wears a Red pin fits all of these statements. Some more than others, and maybe some not at all. I know that not everyone who identifies as a Republican feels and follows the same things I listed above.

I have to kind of disagree. If you are a Republican and are pulling the lever for Trump, I cannot have any respect for you. You are objectively a bad person. You are voting for incipient authoritarianism. You are voting for a president that just celebrated Federal marshals murdering a suspect rather than arresting him. You are voting for rampant obvious corruption. You are voting for foreign interference in our elections. You are voting for someone who is blatantly racist and is actively encouraging neo-Nazis.

I think it reflects positively on you that you can extend such grace, but I just can't. If you are voting for Trump, get the fuck out of my life.

i kinda want to move to Kentucky just so i can vote for Amy McGrath

...but then i would be living in Kentucky...

Just a real weird place, Alaska. Hard to decide whether it’s Cold Florida or Cold Australia or Cold Twin Peaks.

can attest to the fact that it is all three. tho i do hear it was more sane before the oil-field Texans flooded in... and needless to say, even more sane before white man (Russians and Americans) invaded.

gbasden wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:22 pm

Paingod wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:51 am
There's more I'm feeling, but it's mostly rambling disappointment in humanity. I know, absolutely, that not everyone who wears a Red pin fits all of these statements. Some more than others, and maybe some not at all. I know that not everyone who identifies as a Republican feels and follows the same things I listed above.

I have to kind of disagree. If you are a Republican and are pulling the lever for Trump, I cannot have any respect for you. You are objectively a bad person. You are voting for incipient authoritarianism. You are voting for a president that just celebrated Federal marshals murdering a suspect rather than arresting him. You are voting for rampant obvious corruption. You are voting for foreign interference in our elections. You are voting for someone who is blatantly racist and is actively encouraging neo-Nazis.

I think it reflects positively on you that you can extend such grace, but I just can't. If you are voting for Trump, get the fuck out of my life.

At my most generous, I'm prepared to refer back to the old distinction between ignorance and malice. The American Right has made a generations-long effort in pushing ignorance, so at least some of their supporters are ignorant victims rather than malicious perpetrators.

The former require education and correction. The latter deserve nothing but judgement and scorn.

hitbyambulance wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:37 pm i kinda want to move to Kentucky just so i can vote for Amy McGrath

...but then i would be living in Kentucky...

When I was in my teens and early 20s (late '70s) I spent some beer-soaked weekends in KY. The first time, my buddy and I got out of work on a Friday and decided on a whim to see how far south we could drive (from MI) before we couldn't drive anymore. We made it to KY and passed out in a rest stop. We'd left behind a typical cold slushy gray MI April and woke up in glorious springtime. We partied there for a day and drove back in time for work on Monday. A couple of other party-hardy trips with other friends followed.

When I graduated from college I knew I wanted to get out of MI, and KY beckoned. Future Wife wanted to live in New England, where I'd never been. We agreed that we'd move wherever one of us landed a professional job first.

It's a beautiful state and the politics and cultural divide were an afterthought then. The way things turned out, I'm glad she won.

gbasden wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:22 pmI think it reflects positively on you that you can extend such grace, but I just can't. If you are voting for Trump, get the fuck out of my life.

I may have been misunderstood. I absolutely agree with this sentiment. Anyone who's voting a Red party ticket without thinking about it right now is accomplice to murder and treason in my mind, basically. As far as I'm concerned, Trump has openly stated that he's an enemy of democracy. An enemy of the people. An enemy of rationality.

I was more talking to the people who identify as Republicans yet aren't voting and are watching their party from the sidelines, or voting for people in the party that still have integrity - if any exist. I don't expect them to suddenly go Team Blue, though I appreciate that even more. Just sitting it out might be all they can stomach, letting Democrats succeed or fail by their own efforts.

I'm sure there are people left who call themselves Republican and believe in fiscal conservancy, smaller government, lower taxes - and not racism, hatred, ignorance. They're not voting for Trump or the spineless vultures like McConnell, Graham, and Collins. I'm not sure what else to call them. Are they Independents now? Moderates?

In other news, my ballot has been received and accepted by my town clerk. It took approximately 3 days. One day to get picked up by the mail carrier from the mailbox, probably dropped off at town hall the next day, and then checked and accepted the next.

Heres a few headlines from CNN for the day. The one funniest is Trump says he never heard of Qanon. The man is a horrible liar.

Treasury Department withheld nearly $4 million from FDNY 9/11 health program, says NYC is responsible for federal debts

Trump administration rejects California's disaster assistance request for wildfires

'Kisses dictators' butts': Republican senator lambasts Trump in leaked call

Rudy Giuliani's daughter says to vote for Biden and Harris to end Trump's 'reign of terror'

Savannah Guthrie's questions at NBC's town hall exposed Trump's warped information diet

Bothsides!

https://twitter.com/MittRomney/status/1 ... 3654259713