Ukraine

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:31 pm

Dogstar wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:35 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 3:01 pm Many Russians take pride in their ability to endure hardship, especially if it’s seen as a patriotic sacrifice.
This is true, but you need money to finance the cost of troops and equipment for territorial acquisitions. I don't think Putin can just hardship/loot his way from one territory to fund the next expansion (there's a 4x space game with a species like that). If we figure out a way to limit Russia's ability to sell/profit from oil/gas...

This also assumes that the Russian public will see this the same way Putin does - I think the jury is out on that point. Polling is difficult in Russia but there some limited ones that show that a significant proportion of the younger crowd isn't buying what Putin is selling.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:32 pm

One would think Mexico moving into the Southwest to address discrimination and threats to ethnic Mexicans would be a more apt comparison.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:36 pm

If am reading the analogy to its conclusion, Trump and conservative America think that Mexico is ethnically US and should be annexed?

Edit: Damned you Izzy!!!!!

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:40 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:36 pm If am reading the analogy to its conclusion, Trump and conservative America think that Mexico is ethnically US and should be annexed?

Edit: Damned you Izzy!!!!!

I think he's saying the opposite. Mexico would be annexing Texas.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:43 pm

It's not well thought out analogy. There is no logical conclusion.

It's just, "He put troops at a border, we should put troops at a border."

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:11 pm

Of course we knew this was coming;

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:21 pm

To be clear, he wants to declare northern Mexico,
independent, and then occupy it.

Or perhaps I’m a victim of ellipses

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:21 pm

"I said, 'How smart is that?' He's going to go in and be a peacekeeper. That's the strongest peace force. We could use that on our southern border. That's the strongest peace force I've ever seen. There were more army tanks than I've ever seen. They're going to keep peace, all right."

That has to be from The Onion, right?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:33 pm

It is totally in line with his strong man takes. I almost take it as proof a deep state doesn't exist because the guy is a clear and present danger. Luckily we have nincompoops who won't even prosecute his crimes.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:48 pm

It's not just Trump. Plenty of wannabes and right-wing pundits are lining up to praise Putin's strength and cast aspersions on Biden and NATO.

It really feels like upside-down world. I had an 80s Cold War upbringing. My best high-school friend (who went into US Naval Intelligence) and I watched the end of the Soviet Union with thrilled interest. He was a conservative hawk to the bone, but I'm given to understand that he's a Trump supporter now. Is he a fan of the KGB's man in the Kremlin, too?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:33 pm

I didn’t think he would sink that low, but once again he’s sunk lower than I thought any human being ever could. How anyone could possibly view Trump as anything other a traitorous piece of human shit is beyond me. You have to really hate to love him.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:45 pm

Grifman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:11 pm Of course we knew this was coming;

OMFG. There are no words.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:46 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:33 pm I didn’t think he would sink that low, but once again he’s sunk lower than I thought any human being ever could. How anyone could possibly view Trump as anything other a traitorous piece of human shit is beyond me. You have to really hate to love him.

Psst. It ain't just Trump, it's the entire GOP and coterie of enablers.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:49 pm

Dogstar wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:52 pm No matter what though, the sanctions need to come in hard and fast.

Reuters

President Joe Biden said on Tuesday the United States was imposing a first tranche of sanctions against Russia for launching an invasion of Ukraine and promised that more would come if there are further incursions.

Biden, speaking to reporters at the White House, said the United States would impose sanctions against two large Russian financial institutions and Russian sovereign debt. Sanctions were imposed against Russian elites and their family members as well, administration officials said.
...
Biden said the sanctions in the initial tranche applied to VEB bank and Russia's military bank - Promsvyazbank, which does defense deals. He said the sanctions against Russia's sovereign debt meant the Russian government would be cut off from Western financing.
...
The sanctions on the banks come on top of designations of Russian "elites" the Treasury Department accused of being close to Putin, including Aleksandr Bortnikov, director of the Federal Security Service (FSB), and Petr Fradkov, the chairman and chief executive of Promsvyazbank Public Joint Stock Company.

Also hit with sanctions was Sergei Kiriyenko, a former prime minister of Russia.
...
Russia's Sberbank (SBER.MM) and VTB (VTBR.MM) would face American sanctions if Moscow proceeds with its invasion of Ukraine, a senior U.S. administration official told reporters.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:27 pm

I just...I don't even know what to say anymore.

Tucker: It may be worth asking yourself… why do I hate Putin.. Has Putin ever called me a racist? Has he threatened to get me fired for disagreeing with him?

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:42 pm

Does he eat dogs? Holy shit we're so far into hell.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 12:10 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:27 pm I just...I don't even know what to say anymore.

Tucker: It may be worth asking yourself… why do I hate Putin.. Has Putin ever called me a racist? Has he threatened to get me fired for disagreeing with him?

No, Putin would just have him poisoned, no need to fire him.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 12:58 am

Fixed this for Tucker:

It may be worth asking yourself… why do I hate Hitler.. Has Hitler ever called me a racist? Has he threatened to get me fired for disagreeing with him?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 12:10 pm

Has Putin ever called me a racist? Has he threatened to get me fired for disagreeing with him? Has he shipped every middle-class job in my town to Russia? Did he manufacture a worldwide pandemic that wrecked my business and kept me indoors for two years?

"Is he teaching my children to embrace racial discrimination? Is he making fentanyl? Is he trying to snuff out Christianity? Does he eat dogs?

Other horrible people who have never done those things to me:

Kim Jong Un
Xi Jinping
Saddam Hussein
Mark Wahlberg

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 12:47 pm

Wait are you the dude Mark beat up when he was younger?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:22 pm

Kind of....I'm one of the many people who have purchased a ticket to one of his movies.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:07 pm

Russian opinion on Ukraine:

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2022/02 ... poll-intl/

Quick summary:

1) 50% of Russians support a war to keep Ukraine out of NATO (they feel threatened by NATO expansion)
2) Only 36% support a war to unite Ukraine with Russia (which is what Putin stated in his televised address)
3) 75% of Russians do not believe there will be a war, there will be a peaceful resolution (internal propaganda has not been emphasizing war in messages to the public)

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:13 pm

Alexa, play The Foggy Dew.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:23 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defende ... erland_Day

Defender of the Fatherland Day (Russian: День защитника Отечества Den' zashchitnika Otechestva; Kazakh: Отан қорғаушы күні; Tajik: Рӯзи Дорандаи Ватан; Kyrgyz: Мекенди коргоочулардын күнү; Belarusian: Дзень абаронцы Айчыны) is a holiday observed in Russia, Turkmenistan, Belarus, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan and Tajikistan. It is celebrated on 23 February, except in Kazakhstan, where it is celebrated on 7 May. In Russia and Belarus, it is a public holiday and, usually, an off-day.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:14 pm

Sadly, the war is on per WaPo:

Russian President Vladimir Putin said Thursday that the Kremlin had decided to carry out a “special military operation” in Ukraine.

“The situation requires us to take decisive, swift action,” he said in an early morning speech, adding that adding that Moscow would carry out the “demilitarization and denazification” of Ukraine and end eight years of war in eastern Ukraine, where Kyiv government forces have been fighting pro-Moscow separatist militants.

Putin also told Ukrainians to give up their weapons and to return home.

Sounds like he’s going for the whole enchilada. This is regime change, not limited to just the Donbas.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:19 pm

Kyiv under attack:

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:29 pm

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:30 pm

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:34 pm

Reports are coming in of air attacks on every major Ukrainian city.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:40 pm

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:44 pm

I hope somehow Russians get their asses kicked.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:45 pm

Just today, the Poles announced an increase to their defense budget, a larger army, and the formation of a national militia. They obviously don’t trust the Russians.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:47 pm

BBC live reporting

xwraith · Post by **xwraith** » Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:56 pm

Grifman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:45 pm Just today, the Poles announced an increase to their defense budget, a larger army, and the formation of a national militia. They obviously don’t trust the Russians.

Ponder that Brest is three hours east of Warsaw in normal traffic.

Baltics, Finland, and Poland are next in line.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:28 am

Grifman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 11:45 pm Just today, the Poles announced an increase to their defense budget, a larger army, and the formation of a national militia. They obviously don’t trust the Russians.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:53 am

It’s made the cut for a 2nd printing on P500. I look forward to adding it to my massive backlog, especially seeing as I never finished processing NW:Korea.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:54 am

Good article on the “Putin Doctrine”:

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles ... n-doctrine

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:26 am

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:53 am It’s made the cut for a 2nd printing on P500. I look forward to adding it to my massive backlog, especially seeing as I never finished processing NW:Korea.

Same here. I recently picked up NW: Vietnam and have yet to crack it.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:53 am

Worst take on Ukraine other than Trump/Tucker:

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:55 am

Well, it's on. Let's see if these sanctions are worth a shit. They certainly ain't goona stop Putin.