Moderators: $iljanus, LawBeefaroni
"There are 12 states that are already at 70%. I worry about the ones that are way below that, and they are sitting ducks for the next outbreak of Covid-19 — which shouldn't have to happen now"—@NIHDirector to @ChrisCuomo @CNN
Second shot for the 15 yo tomorrow.Zaxxon wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:34 am Walensky: quit fucking around and get your teenagers vaccinated, a-holes!*
* - She may have used kinder word choice.
America’s biggest mistake in fighting Covid-19 began with an assumption made long before the virus behind the pandemic first appeared in humans.
In the federal government’s previous pandemic playbook, the initial actions taken by President Donald Trump’s administration, and advice given by experts, there was a common theme: that America would come together against a major national threat, helping put it down collectively.
Over the past year and a half, we’ve learned how wrong that was. While the US did manage to lock down at first, those lockdowns soon gave way to protests. Not long after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommended masking and most states adopted the advice into mask mandates, masks became political symbols as many Americans rejected wearing one often, if at all. Even after the country built up its coronavirus testing capacity, translating that into collective action through, say, contact tracing, centralized isolation, or genomic sequencing (to track variants) just didn’t happen in most of the US.
Case and death rates have gotten much better recently, thanks to the vaccines. But that’s largely due to a lot of individuals acting in their own interest and getting the shot. The policy proposals to make a more collective push for vaccines — through, for example, vaccine passports — have been widely rejected, including by the White House.
Whenever collective action is called for, Americans don’t do it — or, at the very least, don’t do it sufficiently. America is too politicized, fractured, and, above all, individualistic for a collective move to save it.
In public health, a core concept is meeting people where they are. Well, Americans are in a very individualistic place. That comes with benefits — the PNAS study noted individualism is “an important driver of creativity, innovations, and long-run economic growth.” But in a truly national health crisis, it comes with major downsides, and so it has to be acknowledged and worked around.
“The lessons from epidemics and pandemics is that politics, culture, and socioeconomic variables matter as much as the health aspects of whatever the health issue is,” Kates, of the Kaiser Family Foundation, said. “You cannot separate out the qualities or characteristics of communities from how the response is structured and talked about.”
Yes it is. As many of my peers have astutely noted, the response to the pandemic continues to be a private health response - I'll decide to wear a mask for me. I'll decide to get a vaccination for me. I'll decide to stay at home for me. There's been very little messaging or focus on the nature of public health - how our individual decisions impact others in our community.Great piece today on Vox,
I can't imagine how exhausted you and your compatriots must be by now.Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:33 pm There's been a push over the last week or so from various national public health groups for us all to regroup, reorganize and solider on. I don't know how.
Seriously.Zaxxon wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:37 pmI can't imagine how exhausted you and your compatriots must be by now.Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:33 pm There's been a push over the last week or so from various national public health groups for us all to regroup, reorganize and solider on. I don't know how.
I still wear a mask for you as I always have... Of course that's, in part, in hopes that you'll wear a mask for me, even if I am thuperduper immune in theory, I'm still seeing too many cases around me to put that to the test.Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:33 pmYes it is. As many of my peers have astutely noted, the response to the pandemic continues to be a private health response - I'll decide to wear a mask for me. I'll decide to get a vaccination for me. I'll decide to stay at home for me. There's been very little messaging or focus on the nature of public health - how our individual decisions impact others in our community.Great piece today on Vox,
For all that we've advanced, for all we've done, this should have been so much better. 33+ million cases and 600K+ known deaths?
There's been a push over the last week or so from various national public health groups for us all to regroup, reorganize and solider on. I don't know how.
Oh, absolutely. Biggest issues being discussed right now:malchior wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:48 pm @Smoove_B - is there also a wider discussion beyond pandemic/epidemic response? I can only imagine this is only one facet of a deeper problem in public health, right?
Leper colonies?Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:10 pm The Biden administration is prepared to throw billions at public health - which is great - but there are core issues that need to be addressed. On top of that, if states and locals don't value public health, then none of this matters (if it ever did). We can't possibly elevate public health for all as long as locals are holding the reins. I don't know how we change that in a practical sense when individualism is one of the defining characteristics of American life.
And I can't stop thinking of the front-line medical community and what we've asked of them over the last 15+ months. I don't know how they are doing it.Zaxxon wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:37 pm I can't imagine how exhausted you and your compatriots must be by now.
The thing is, that's how most Americans do everything (using the illustrative 'I' here): I'll drive safely so I don't get hurt. I'll follow the traffic laws so that I don't get fined. I'll save electricity and water because it saves me money. I'll vote for the politician that will benefit me the most. I'll donate to charity if it is a good tax deduction for me. I'll do loud things outside when it is convenient for me.Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:33 pm I'll decide to wear a mask for me. I'll decide to get a vaccination for me. I'll decide to stay at home for me. There's been very little messaging or focus on the nature of public health - how our individual decisions impact others in our community.
Seriously. I've had to take a number of *remote* testimonies, which aren't as good!ImLawBoy wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:33 pm But have you given even one second of thought to the lawyers who are working from home and having to actually deal with their families???
My BIL and I were talking about this. He doesn't think he'll ever get 100% back to F2F depositions. Everyone figured out how much money they were saving. Same thing in my line of work. F2F meetings/workshops were mandatory. Clients have been like...remote is fine. Even when it doesn't make sense.El Guapo wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:51 pmSeriously. I've had to take a number of *remote* testimonies, which aren't as good!ImLawBoy wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:33 pm But have you given even one second of thought to the lawyers who are working from home and having to actually deal with their families???
I will definitely want to (though the costs don't come out of my pocket). What will happen when some lawyers / witnesses want to do remote while we want to do in person...I don't know. Though we're the government, so I imagine we'll get our way most of the time (though I expect we'd accommodate volunteers & cooperative witnesses).malchior wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:53 pmMy BIL and I were talking about this. He doesn't think he'll ever get 100% back to F2F depositions. Everyone figured out how much money they were saving. Same thing in my line of work. F2F meetings/workshops were mandatory. Clients have been like...remote is fine. Even when it doesn't make sense.El Guapo wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:51 pmSeriously. I've had to take a number of *remote* testimonies, which aren't as good!ImLawBoy wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:33 pm But have you given even one second of thought to the lawyers who are working from home and having to actually deal with their families???
That could well be, but my first instinct is to attribute it primarily to COVID denialism - the virus is overblown and being used by liberals to take control of America. Therefore every response to the virus is inherently suspect, because no god fearing American would want to do anything in response to a quasi-made up virus. Therefore masks are bad, and any remote access due to the virus is also bad.Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:01 pm Oddly enough numerous heavily leaning (R) towns in my area are all now pushing for in-person governmental committee meetings along with the complete suspension of the public being able to call in or attend remotely. I strongly believe (all anecdotal) these (R) governing bodies did not enjoy being held accountable over the last year+ when it was so much easier for the general public to call in and ask them questions. On top of the fact that everything is being recorded (and broadcast) in real time, it really impacted their ability to say and do things in real time. When they hold these meetings at night (traditional) in-person attendance is very, very low - usually no one. But over the last year attendance has been up.
If it was just one town or one local government office, I'd think it was a weird theory, but it's happening in multiple towns and even now for my county. They've explicitly stated no more remote and no more remote attending. To me it's been very reminiscent of the voting issue. They've realized remote attendance expands awareness and jeopardizes their control - so it must be eliminated ASAP. Instead of maintaining a virtual presence and increasing the ability for more people to reliably attend.
They haven't cancelled remote meetings here and I hope they don't. In person meetings suck. Well to be blunt, the meetings suck and it's nice to not have to sit there the whole time. I've waited through 4 2+ hour meetings to ask a *single question*. Luckily I don't have to sit there every minute because I'm at home. I can do other things half listening while they churn through the topics hoping for the one I actually care about to come up (testimony from a traffic engineer so I can ask a pointed question about their traffic study).Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:01 pm Oddly enough numerous heavily leaning (R) towns in my area are all now pushing for in-person governmental committee meetings along with the complete suspension of the public being able to call in or attend remotely. I strongly believe (all anecdotal) these (R) governing bodies did not enjoy being held accountable over the last year+ when it was so much easier for the general public to call in and ask them questions. On top of the fact that everything is being recorded (and broadcast) in real time, it really impacted their ability to say and do things in real time. When they hold these meetings at night (traditional) in-person attendance is very, very low - usually no one. But over the last year attendance has been up.
If it was just one town or one local government office, I'd think it was a weird theory, but it's happening in multiple towns and even now for my county. They've explicitly stated no more remote and no more remote attending. To me it's been very reminiscent of the voting issue. They've realized remote attendance expands awareness and jeopardizes their control - so it must be eliminated ASAP. Instead of maintaining a virtual presence and increasing the ability for more people to reliably attend.
There you go, thinking of yourself again.Blackhawk wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:37 pm That was ramblier than I thought. I think I need A Caffeine.
You and me both. Empathy and compassion are extremely important to me, and the last five years have been a stark lesson in how contemptuous a broad swath of the country is towards those values.Blackhawk wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:36 pm Ever since I became an adult, I've considered compassion the most important quality a person can strive for. Concern for others is as important as concern for oneself. The last four and a half years have shown me what an outlier I am for having this view. I'm genuinely embarrassed for how naive I was before about it. I still believe in it strongly, don't get me wrong - I just know that most other people don't, and paying it forward simply stops dead most of the time.
The key is never to expect it in return. I'd love to be able to be a completely selfish asshole but my guilt instinct is too strong. So I just do me and assume that most people won't reciprocate. I find myself pleasantly surprised when I'm wrong. Which, incidentally, happens a lot more when you risk putting yourself out there. So does people trying to screw you, of course. :Shrug:gbasden wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:51 amYou and me both. Empathy and compassion are extremely important to me, and the last five years have been a stark lesson in how contemptuous a broad swath of the country is towards those values.Blackhawk wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:36 pm Ever since I became an adult, I've considered compassion the most important quality a person can strive for. Concern for others is as important as concern for oneself. The last four and a half years have shown me what an outlier I am for having this view. I'm genuinely embarrassed for how naive I was before about it. I still believe in it strongly, don't get me wrong - I just know that most other people don't, and paying it forward simply stops dead most of the time.
Royal Caribbean International will no longer require any of its cruise passengers to be vaccinated for COVID-19 as it had previously planned to.
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The about-face is an apparent submission to Gov. Ron DeSantis, who has insisted that there will be no exception made for cruise companies to a newly passed Florida law that fines companies $5,000 each time they ask a patron to provide proof of vaccination. Royal Caribbean International’s sister brand Celebrity Cruises (both owned by Royal Caribbean Group) is still requiring all passengers 16 years old or older be vaccinated on its seven-night Caribbean cruises that are restarting from Port Everglades on June 26.
Trump and his allies try to rewrite, distort history of pandemic while casting Fauci as public enemy No. 1
Donald Trump and his Republican allies have spent the past few weeks trying to rewrite or distort the history of the pandemic, attempting with renewed vigor to villainize Anthony S. Fauci while lionizing the former president for what they portray as heroic foresight and underappreciated efforts to combat the deadly virus.
They have focused on the early moments of the coronavirus response and the origins of the virus, downplaying any role they may have played and casting others in the wrong, at times taking comments out of context and at others drawing conclusions that are unproved.
And at a time when the number of vaccinated people continues to rise and deaths are at one of their lowest levels, it has placed the coronavirus back at the center of the political debate. Trump is planning to make it a chief argument in a reputation rehabilitation effort. And Republicans are also making it a centerpiece of their midterm election campaigns, pledging to hold congressional investigations if they win back the House majority.
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The central argument from him and his allies is that the possibility that the virus escaped from a lab in Wuhan, which remains a possibility, or was manufactured there, a claim for which there is no public evidence, as opposed to spreading from an animal to a human, was unfairly dismissed or covered up by scientists and media organizations bent on destroying the former president.
But to believe some of the claims from Trump and Republicans one would have to imagine that President Barack Obama in 2014 helped seed money into bat research, which within several years would result in a global virus that escaped from a lab — either as a bioweapon or by accident — and spread around the globe.
One would have to come to the firm conclusion that not only was the virus developed in a lab — something experts have said is nearly impossible given the virus’s features — but that Americans helped cover that up, and that President Biden is now aiding in the effort.
But more significantly, the focus on from where the virus came appears to be an attempt to distract from the chief failure of the Trump administration — its uneven and chaotic response to the outbreak once it began spreading within the United States.
Trump frequently told the public it was not a serious threat and would go away soon, including when the weather changed. He resisted public health policies that medical experts said could save lives and sent conflicting signals to the public about whether to wear masks. He said you should, but he would not. Trump also sought to take little responsibility for the pandemic response, often saying it was the job of state governments, not his administration, to take action.
Now close to 600,000 Americans have died from the virus — a statistic that is impervious to the debate over whether the virus leaked from a Chinese lab or was spread from an animal to a human.
The focus on the virus’s origin story also fits a pattern of Trump and his supporters trying to absolve the former president of blame by obfuscating his past actions or words and blaming others despite his role as the country’s leader. Many Republicans are now playing down the severity of the deadly Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, and Trump spent years trying to deny he equated the actions of white supremacists with racial justice demonstrators in the 2017 deadly clashes in Charlottesville.
Public health experts warn that the effort to rewrite or distort the history of the pandemic is more than a political issue and could impact the ability of public health officials to prevent or mitigate a future pandemic.
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But as the Wuhan lab leak theory has gained credence, so has the Republican sense of vindication — and the insistence that Fauci has to explain himself. People close to Fauci have again begun to worry for his safety, given the vitriol and fixation on him that surpasses even what he was faced with last year.
| Running__ | __2014: 1300.55 miles__ | __2015: 2036.13 miles__ | __2016: 1012.75 miles__ | __2017: 1105.82 miles__ | __2018: 1318.91 miles | __2019: 2000.00 miles |
I’ve been waiting to see what happens here. I think “Money Wins” is right, but it’s not going to work out the way DeSantis thinks.Smoove_B wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:23 pm Money wins:
Royal Caribbean International will no longer require any of its cruise passengers to be vaccinated for COVID-19 as it had previously planned to.
...
The about-face is an apparent submission to Gov. Ron DeSantis, who has insisted that there will be no exception made for cruise companies to a newly passed Florida law that fines companies $5,000 each time they ask a patron to provide proof of vaccination. Royal Caribbean International’s sister brand Celebrity Cruises (both owned by Royal Caribbean Group) is still requiring all passengers 16 years old or older be vaccinated on its seven-night Caribbean cruises that are restarting from Port Everglades on June 26.
That wouldn’t bother me a bit. I don’t care why people get vaccinated. If it’s not enough for you to do it for the public health, then do it for your own health, or do it for a freaking cruise. I could care less. Just do it.Smoove_B wrote: Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:29 am I was kind of surprised they buckled, but I guess they figure the short-term financial gains for booking cruises will outweigh the potential lawsuits from passengers when trips are interrupted. They must make absurd money sailing out of Florida and I'd hope they're now looking to relocate as I also don't know how they expect to survive without mandating tests. Then again, maybe they have been doing customer polling and they're being told overwhelmingly their core customer base doesn't care and would be less inclined to book trips if they're required to be vaccinated. I mentioned it elsewhere but I have a family friend that's a school teacher; she has two children and both are eligible for the vaccine. Their family lives to go on annual 10+ day cruises however she refuses to get vaccinated and she won't vaccinate her kids. Up until now that decision hasn't impacted their lives at all, but I can almost (maybe) imagine a scenario where being told no vaccine means no cruise changes her mind. To be clear, I find that incredibly depressing, but here we are.
They didn’t ask for proof of vaccination, but they did have someone stationed at the entrance asking everyone who entered unmasked whether they were vaccinated.U.S. locations with no state or local mask requirements - revised policy
In Costco locations where the state or local jurisdiction does not have a mask mandate, we will allow members and guests who are fully vaccinated to enter Costco without a face mask or face shield. We will not require proof of vaccination, except where required by law, but we ask for members’ responsible and respectful cooperation with this revised policy. Face coverings will still be required in some close contact situations in healthcare settings, including Pharmacy, Optical, Hearing Aid.