hepcat wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2025 10:37 am
You also would end up hurting those most vulnerable to the loss of tax revenue in this country. The people who rely on the social services those dollars fund. Those services may be in danger thanks to Trump, but they're not gone yet.
One of Trump's weaknesses is a crippling need to be loved and looked up to by people. Exposing how he's hurting those who blindly supported him in 2024 is the best way to fight him, imho. If he sees his poll numbers (which he obsessively keeps track of) drop in even those media outlets he trusts, then he'll start looking for scapegoats to throw under the bus when he backtracks.
Oh, and attacking his ego with photos like this will also drive him nuts.
I'm gonna assume that's a photoshop. Wow. Certainly looks realistic.
HUD office TVs were playing a video of Trump licking Leon's feet.
Scraper wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2025 9:44 am
Welcome back Drazzil.
Now to stay on topic I think the not paying taxes in protest thing is completely moronic. Ask Wesley Snipes how that worked out for him.
I think that if a significant portion of people write "exempt" on their tax forms they don't owe taxes till April of next year. Those of you who own businesses or corporations. The government collects payroll taxes throughout the year, but you really only owe them in April?
You only pay in April if you've underpaid your taxes.
Also if a significant portion of people were to decide not to file, the IRS wouldn't be able to get them all. Especially not after Stench gets done gutting them.
What about people that are getting refunds?
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 3:04 pm
by Alefroth
hepcat wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2025 2:53 pm
Don't make me whip out a Wahlberg.
You wouldn't!
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 3:15 pm
by Scraper
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 3:21 pm
by hepcat
Welp, NOW the thread has become harmful. Thanks.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 4:15 pm
by pr0ner
Scraper wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2025 9:44 am
Welcome back Drazzil.
Now to stay on topic I think the not paying taxes in protest thing is completely moronic. Ask Wesley Snipes how that worked out for him.
Agreed. And for some of us it's a mandatory condition of our employment.
Scraper wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2025 9:44 am
Welcome back Drazzil.
Now to stay on topic I think the not paying taxes in protest thing is completely moronic. Ask Wesley Snipes how that worked out for him.
I think that if a significant portion of people write "exempt" on their tax forms they don't owe taxes till April of next year. Those of you who own businesses or corporations. The government collects payroll taxes throughout the year, but you really only owe them in April?
You only pay in April if you've underpaid your taxes.
Also if a significant portion of people were to decide not to file, the IRS wouldn't be able to get them all. Especially not after Stench gets done gutting them.
What about people that are getting refunds?
Refund !??
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 5:46 pm
by Zarathud
Drazzil wrote:
Scraper wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2025 9:44 am
Welcome back Drazzil.
Now to stay on topic I think the not paying taxes in protest thing is completely moronic. Ask Wesley Snipes how that worked out for him.
I think that if a significant portion of people write "exempt" on their tax forms they don't owe taxes till April of next year. Those of you who own businesses or corporations. The government collects payroll taxes throughout the year, but you really only owe them in April? Also if a significant portion of people were to decide not to file, the IRS wouldn't be able to get them all. Especially not after Stench gets done gutting them.
This is a stupid argument from someone who doesn’t understand how taxes work. Even if they don’t catch you in year 1 because of automatic withholding, if you don’t file or pay they can collect at any time and assess penalties and interest.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 7:25 pm
by WYBaugh
Musk has two left feet?
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 8:05 pm
by hepcat
Like you don't.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 8:26 pm
by Holman
It should be possible for rogue techies to project the Trump-Elon toe-sucking video on every major building in DC.
Indeed, it is imperative.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 8:43 pm
by Victoria Raverna
It'll be extra funny if they used Musk's AI to make that video.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 9:37 pm
by Alefroth
WYBaugh wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2025 7:25 pm
Musk has two left feet?
Scraper wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2025 9:44 am
Welcome back Drazzil.
Now to stay on topic I think the not paying taxes in protest thing is completely moronic. Ask Wesley Snipes how that worked out for him.
I think that if a significant portion of people write "exempt" on their tax forms they don't owe taxes till April of next year. Those of you who own businesses or corporations. The government collects payroll taxes throughout the year, but you really only owe them in April? Also if a significant portion of people were to decide not to file, the IRS wouldn't be able to get them all. Especially not after Stench gets done gutting them.
This is a stupid argument from someone who doesn’t understand how taxes work. Even if they don’t catch you in year 1 because of automatic withholding, if you don’t file or pay they can collect at any time and assess penalties and interest.
As far as I know hourly wage earners owe the IRS by April 15th the entire years taxes on the wages for the entire year. Withholdings are done as a convivence thing. You put 0, 1 or exempt.
The larger point I was trying to make is that if enough people who work hourly for a living write "exempt" instead of 0 or 1, especially as the US government depends on people to do automatic withholdings, they get to hold onto someone's taxes for a year.
So, if 25% of wage workers just write in exempt on their tax withholding forms through payroll the US may run into a short term funding crisis.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 10:29 pm
by Blackhawk
And as others have said, what cuts do you think they're going to make to compensate?
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 10:29 pm
by hepcat
Garnishing wages isn’t something you can opt out of. Your belief that the government would just sit back and suddenly think to itself, “well, they sure showed us” and then draft a resolution giving you everything you want is unrealistic to the nth degree.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 10:51 pm
by Kraken
Drazzil wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2025 1:26 pm
Those of you who own businesses or corporations. The government collects payroll taxes throughout the year, but you really only owe them in April?
As an S Corp I file and remit payroll taxes quarterly (except for state withholding which went to monthly a few years ago because I made too much money one quarter). Bigger companies have to pay monthly or semi-monthly.
Aside from screwing yourself over legally and financially, withholding those payments would merely play into Mump's hands, since their objective is to starve the government of money and render most of it dysfunctional.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:36 am
by Zarathud
Again, that's not how the U.S. government works. There is no cash basis accounting system where taxes are immediately used to pay bills. The U.S. government borrows, and has incredible credit -- mainly because of Pax Americana and being the world's currency with the biggest and most powerful economy. Trump will undermine that in the long run, but Republicans have never cared about deficits during an Republican administration.
Besides, what Drazzil suggests has already been tried by the sovereign citizen movement and fanatic conservatives who actually believe they could take down the government into chaos by not paying taxes. And they regularly lost, both in courts and in fact.
Even Al Capone couldn't stop the IRS. And he was a successful criminal, not a fool.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 2:06 am
by Isgrimnur
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:13 am
by Kraken
Heh, yeah I know they spent my deposits a decade or two ago, but they're still coming after my ass if I stop making them.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:21 pm
by $iljanus
Even with potential IRS cutbacks I think they wouldn't break a sweat going after low hanging fruit like the common folk evading taxes. We don't have high powered accounting firms whose sole purpose is to exploit loopholes.
I think I'm more partial to people not buying as much crap. Frequenting small business and buying food, sure. But if you don't need that big F150, don't get it.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:28 pm
by hepcat
Christ, no one needs an F150. You ever try driving one around a city like Chicago? I still have friggin' nightmares from that 24 hour period in which that was the ONLY rental available to me while my own car was in the shop.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:37 pm
by Drazzil
Zarathud wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:36 am
Again, that's not how the U.S. government works. There is no cash basis accounting system where taxes are immediately used to pay bills. The U.S. government borrows, and has incredible credit -- mainly because of Pax Americana and being the world's currency with the biggest and most powerful economy. Trump will undermine that in the long run, but Republicans have never cared about deficits during an Republican administration.
Besides, what Drazzil suggests has already been tried by the sovereign citizen movement and fanatic conservatives who actually believe they could take down the government into chaos by not paying taxes. And they regularly lost, both in courts and in fact.
Even Al Capone couldn't stop the IRS. And he was a successful criminal, not a fool.
Well shit.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:08 pm
by Alefroth
A site where government employees are telling their stories-
Zarathud wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:36 am
Even Al Capone couldn't stop the IRS. And he was a successful criminal, not a fool.
Well shit.
That was a dick move on Zarathud's part, springing that news on you without warning.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 10:24 pm
by Drazzil
Zarathud wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:36 am
Again, that's not how the U.S. government works. There is no cash basis accounting system where taxes are immediately used to pay bills. The U.S. government borrows, and has incredible credit -- mainly because of Pax Americana and being the world's currency with the biggest and most powerful economy. Trump will undermine that in the long run, but Republicans have never cared about deficits during an Republican administration.
Besides, what Drazzil suggests has already been tried by the sovereign citizen movement and fanatic conservatives who actually believe they could take down the government into chaos by not paying taxes. And they regularly lost, both in courts and in fact.
Even Al Capone couldn't stop the IRS. And he was a successful criminal, not a fool.
Forgive a foolish man for asking then: What do you think would happen to America and our government if just say 20-50% of hourly employees and lets just round down here and say 20% of all small business stop paying their taxes, or... I dunno. Defer them publicly.
Lets just say this was due to I dunno... Trump stopping payments to states for things he disagrees with. Businesses not being paid for Federal contracts Trump disagrees with, or whatever you care to call the reason.
Blackhawk wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2025 9:42 pm
Just ask around - there are quite a few people here that I've pissed off from time to time over the years by my stubborn refusal to let what I see as nonsensical bullshit go by unchallenged.
Zarathud wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:36 am
Again, that's not how the U.S. government works. There is no cash basis accounting system where taxes are immediately used to pay bills. The U.S. government borrows, and has incredible credit -- mainly because of Pax Americana and being the world's currency with the biggest and most powerful economy. Trump will undermine that in the long run, but Republicans have never cared about deficits during an Republican administration.
Besides, what Drazzil suggests has already been tried by the sovereign citizen movement and fanatic conservatives who actually believe they could take down the government into chaos by not paying taxes. And they regularly lost, both in courts and in fact.
Even Al Capone couldn't stop the IRS. And he was a successful criminal, not a fool.
Forgive a foolish man for asking then: What do you think would happen to America and our government if just say 20-50% of hourly employees and lets just round down here and say 20% of all small business stop paying their taxes, or... I dunno. Defer them publicly.
Lets just say this was due to I dunno... Trump stopping payments to states for things he disagrees with. Businesses not being paid for Federal contracts Trump disagrees with, or whatever you care to call the reason.
What then?
Probably nothing for the government. As long as they can print more money or borrow more money, it doesn't matter if the tax is reduced by 20-50%.
Now if the government cut spending by 20-50%, it'll destroy the economy.
Zarathud wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:36 am
Again, that's not how the U.S. government works. There is no cash basis accounting system where taxes are immediately used to pay bills. The U.S. government borrows, and has incredible credit -- mainly because of Pax Americana and being the world's currency with the biggest and most powerful economy. Trump will undermine that in the long run, but Republicans have never cared about deficits during an Republican administration.
Besides, what Drazzil suggests has already been tried by the sovereign citizen movement and fanatic conservatives who actually believe they could take down the government into chaos by not paying taxes. And they regularly lost, both in courts and in fact.
Even Al Capone couldn't stop the IRS. And he was a successful criminal, not a fool.
Forgive a foolish man for asking then: What do you think would happen to America and our government if just say 20-50% of hourly employees and lets just round down here and say 20% of all small business stop paying their taxes, or... I dunno. Defer them publicly.
Lets just say this was due to I dunno... Trump stopping payments to states for things he disagrees with. Businesses not being paid for Federal contracts Trump disagrees with, or whatever you care to call the reason.
What then?
Going to have to know the amount of withheld taxes that would total.
Zarathud wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:36 am
Again, that's not how the U.S. government works. There is no cash basis accounting system where taxes are immediately used to pay bills. The U.S. government borrows, and has incredible credit -- mainly because of Pax Americana and being the world's currency with the biggest and most powerful economy. Trump will undermine that in the long run, but Republicans have never cared about deficits during an Republican administration.
Besides, what Drazzil suggests has already been tried by the sovereign citizen movement and fanatic conservatives who actually believe they could take down the government into chaos by not paying taxes. And they regularly lost, both in courts and in fact.
Even Al Capone couldn't stop the IRS. And he was a successful criminal, not a fool.
Forgive a foolish man for asking then: What do you think would happen to America and our government if just say 20-50% of hourly employees and lets just round down here and say 20% of all small business stop paying their taxes, or... I dunno. Defer them publicly.
Lets just say this was due to I dunno... Trump stopping payments to states for things he disagrees with. Businesses not being paid for Federal contracts Trump disagrees with, or whatever you care to call the reason.
What then?
Going to have to know the amount of withheld taxes that would total.
Yeah we would wouldn't we?
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:58 am
by Kraken
A week from Sunday, Sen. Ed Markey will headline a "No Kings in America" rally at the Colonial Theater in Pittsfield. Free tickets to the event went quickly, but they're looking at ways to include the expected crowd outside of the theater. A crowd that I will be in, unless the weather sucks massively. (Early March is still full winter in the Berkshires.) Wife and I will wear masks in case the feds deploy facial recognition tech to identify their enemies. I don't *think* Pittsfield is on their radar, but one must take precautions.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 2:21 am
by Zarathud
Drazzil, you're being foolish because you think you've discovered something new. It's not, there have been tax protestors from the nation's founding. Conservatives specifically have been engaged in tax shenanigans since the 1950s Wiki. There's a reason the U.S. has 84% tax compliance. The U.S. tax system is already designed to stop your tax protest cold.
First, there is no way 20-50% of hourly employees would be able to stop paying taxes. Their employers withhold taxes and report those wages. That's your social security tax and wage income withholding for any sizable business. Investment income has its own 10-30% withholding rules. And if you're caught not paying in enough, you have to pay backup withholding. Ever hear of any of the various types of IRS Forms 1099 and W-2? There are tax reporting rules.
Second, the top 50% of all taxpayers paid 97.7% of all federal income taxes. They're not going to take the risk, and even if you could somehow convince the bottom 50% of earners to participate in your fantasy that would only impact 2.3% of income tax revenues. Tax foundation analysis.
Third, the Republican tax cuts have already given away so much more than you would likely see withheld in protest. Trump's 2017 tax cuts increased the federal deficits by $4.6 trillion over 10 years. Source. And the new House Republican tax blueprint is for another $4.5 trillion in tax cuts. AP. Even if your fantasy came true, the U.S. economy hasn't noticed massive tax give-aways.
Why do you think a tax protest would ever work? Especially with a Donald Trump who would gleefully send the IRS after his political enemies?
Remember, I'm a tax lawyer so knowing this is my fucking job. And it's why I have no patience for your bullshit fantasy or the "just asking questions" schtick. How much did you actually pay in taxes last year?
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 3:34 am
by Kraken
Zarathud wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2025 2:21 am
How much did you actually pay in taxes last year?
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 9:43 am
by Zarathud
The best way to fight back for now is to volunteer and help groups targeted by Trump’s vendettas.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:38 pm
by Drazzil
Zarathud wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2025 2:21 am
Drazzil, you're being foolish because you think you've discovered something new. It's not, there have been tax protestors from the nation's founding. Conservatives specifically have been engaged in tax shenanigans since the 1950s Wiki. There's a reason the U.S. has 84% tax compliance. The U.S. tax system is already designed to stop your tax protest cold.
First, there is no way 20-50% of hourly employees would be able to stop paying taxes. Their employers withhold taxes and report those wages. That's your social security tax and wage income withholding for any sizable business. Investment income has its own 10-30% withholding rules. And if you're caught not paying in enough, you have to pay backup withholding. Ever hear of any of the various types of IRS Forms 1099 and W-2? There are tax reporting rules.
Second, the top 50% of all taxpayers paid 97.7% of all federal income taxes. They're not going to take the risk, and even if you could somehow convince the bottom 50% of earners to participate in your fantasy that would only impact 2.3% of income tax revenues. Tax foundation analysis.
Third, the Republican tax cuts have already given away so much more than you would likely see withheld in protest. Trump's 2017 tax cuts increased the federal deficits by $4.6 trillion over 10 years. Source. And the new House Republican tax blueprint is for another $4.5 trillion in tax cuts. AP. Even if your fantasy came true, the U.S. economy hasn't noticed massive tax give-aways.
Why do you think a tax protest would ever work? Especially with a Donald Trump who would gleefully send the IRS after his political enemies?
Remember, I'm a tax lawyer so knowing this is my fucking job. And it's why I have no patience for your bullshit fantasy or the "just asking questions" schtick. How much did you actually pay in taxes last year?
First off. Thank you for explaining these tax concepts so that I understand them in a simple manner. You really broke down for me why my ideas in their current form are not feasable.
Second: I could really go without the angry dismissiveness that you seem to be directing towards me. I feel like I've at least tried to be polite and easy going with my questions, but if you keep it up I will absolutely reflect energy.
Third I paid exactly $8162.71 in taxes between federal, medicaid, SS taxes and OR state taxes, an effective tax rate of just over 21% of my income, not that it's anyones business.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:45 pm
by Drazzil
BT dubs. I just learned this morning that Trump is going to lay off 50% of social security program workers.
He wants to end the program I spent my life paying into and now appears that even if I could live to 70 or 72 I will never get to collect.
Speaking as someone who will probabally never see a dime I feel like I'll be damned if I want to keep contributing into a program that will AT BEST will probally sunset after the boomers die.
Yep. Trumps going ro create a lot of people with nothing to lose. Myself included.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:51 pm
by Drazzil
I never imagined that the elites running this country would allow things to get so bad. I would have thought any president doing the things he's actively doing now would be removed by the deep state
I mean if the state collapses then even the 1% have a chance to lose everything.
Re: Fighting back
Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 1:08 pm
by Scraper
Drazzil wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:51 pm
I never imagined that the elites running this country would allow things to get so bad. I would have thought any president doing the things he's actively doing now would be removed by the deep state
I mean if the state collapses then even the 1% have a chance to lose everything.
Ok now that's the real Drazzil non-sense that we're used to.
