World of Darkness-Kine Strikes Back-Game Over-Kindred Win

[tru1cy]

I would imagine that once a conversion had taken place the vampires would desire time to chit chat first...

I think the Vamps' conversion (assuming it is indeed tonight) occurs as the first act of the morning, so it's not the conversion and subsiquent chit-chat with the new-vamp... As it's been said - the delay can also be just tru1cy (on purpose or not), and not any of the players (kindred or kine).

Actually, I should have a update after 1 pm. Due to various reason I can't move the day along. This isn't due to a player absence, but to thing I am dealing with at work.


Sorry for the delay

[Remus West]

Why does everyone assume it's the vamps?

Do you assume it is not?

if he answers yes, we should kill him

That was kind of the point. Austin's comment just seems like an odd one. Its the same comment LM made last game.

[Austin]

Why does everyone assume it's the vamps?

Do you assume it is not?

if he answers yes, we should kill him

That was kind of the point. Austin's comment just seems like an odd one. Its the same comment LM made last game.

I was reacting to Trig's and then Scoops vamp remarks is all. Not so much as in I thought it was the mage or the priest but more to combat the idea that voting for the later-comers is a good idea necessarily. Nipping it in the bud.

[Kraegor]

That was kind of the point. Austin's comment just seems like an odd one. Its the same comment LM made last game.

lol, that'd be an interesting coincidence. just seems like a slip that's too obvious to be genuine.

[Austin]

That was kind of the point. Austin's comment just seems like an odd one. Its the same comment LM made last game.

lol, that'd be an interesting coincidence. just seems like a slip that's too obvious to be genuine.

Meh. It's a slip in that I didn't intend it to match anything from Mortis in the last game. It's a coincidence that it matches anything from the last game, or it's ironic if you're Alanis Morriset. Please don't drain me over it!

[Grundbegriff]

tru1cy: Does the Priest have to protect someone, or does he have the right to withhold protection completely?

[Grundbegriff]

for two a mod (tru1cy) in this case, can intentionally delay posting to obfuscate "when" he received PMs.

As far as I know, this has been standard operating procedure in most games since we first began back in the fall of '06.

Here's what we know:

1. The Priest protected himself last night, or (doubting that he'd have a viable target tomorrow, and conserving his right of self-protection) the Priest protected nobody last night.

2. The Mage scanned. The Mage has no reason to PM (and probably will never have a reason to PM), and the Mage has no reason to transfer his power.

3. The Vampires either killed or converted. Some have suggested that first-night conversion is a sure thing, but that's not at all obvious. It would be smarter to wait and see who's garnering trust, and then to convert that person.

At dawn, we'll have a good idea of what happened. If nobody dies, then the Vampires converted someone. If someone dies, then either (a) the Priest tried to protect a Vampire (unlikely), or (b) the Vampires killed someone.

Interestingly, if the Priest tries to protect a Vampire, the Priest counts as the Vampires' kill for that night, which interrupts their plans. But what if the Priest protects a Vampire on the night of conversion? In that case, would the conversion succeed and the Priest die? (tru1cy?)

If so, then the conversion would occur under cover of the Priest's accidental death, and folks might still assume that no conversion had occurred.

This is why it's vital that the Priest protect only those for whom he has complete trust.

[Austin]

3. The Vampires either killed or converted. Some have suggested that first-night conversion is a sure thing, but that's not at all obvious. It would be smarter to wait and see who's garnering trust, and then to convert that person.

This gets discussed but the first night always results in a conversion. (In my experience)

[tru1cy]

Daylight

You all awake to find everyone alive. None perished at night. Despite the fact no one died per the rules of this insane game someone must die. You all head into the living room to select the first person for beheading



Please bold all vote.

No Editing of post

Majority is 7. Once majority has been reached voting is closed


1. Remus West
2. Austin
3. Chaosraven
4. Kreagor
5. Unagi
6. Genghis
7. Lassr
8. Grundbegriff
9. pr0ner
10. Scoop
11. Triggercut
12. Newcastle

[Austin]

Edit to say... the conversion was interrupted in one of my elder vamp experience games. I think we hit a twin, or something happened to mess up the conversion. It wasn't a protection so I don't recall 100% There was a more complicated ruleset that game so it probably wasn't anything that could happen this game. Point being I was dancing that next day just to stay alive one more day. If there is a death tonight and pressure gets put on someone tomorrow, and that someone comes out as seer we have to be really decisive about letting him live or die. However this point should be moot.

[Austin]

Edit: And is moot.

[triggercut]

What Austin said.

Putting everything else aside--the ability of the vampire players to mislead, obfuscate, and plead their cases--the absolute single clearest path to victory for them is to convert someone from the Kine and make the ratio of vamps to villagers a little more even.

Waiting past day one would be a devastating tactic, but there's so much risk to it that I'd call it less than likely.

[tru1cy]

tru1cy: Does the Priest have to protect someone, or does he have the right to withhold protection completely?

No the priest can elect to not protect . It's only fair since protecting a vamp is death


If the vampires try to convert a human being protected by the priest the conversion will fail

[triggercut]

bah. Now we know!

The vamps played the percentages.

[Austin]

Genghis would be my first choice to sire as a baddie.

[Scoop20906]

So, now we have three vampires.

Or, if the priest was VERY lucky and protected someone last night, would we know that? Would tru1cy let us know if the priest successfully protected someone?

[tru1cy]

So, now we have three vampires.

Or, if the priest was VERY lucky and protected someone last night, would we know that? Would tru1cy let us know if the priest successfully protected someone?

The priest and vamps would know This information is not formally announced to the masses

[Austin]

It's not even worth discussing a 2 vamp scenario right now IMO. We must move forward under the assumption that there are 3 vamps; right now.

[Scoop20906]

So, now we have three vampires.

Or, if the priest was VERY lucky and protected someone last night, would we know that? Would tru1cy let us know if the priest successfully protected someone?

The priest and vamps would know This information is not formally announced to the masses

Well, that confuses things a bit.

[Scoop20906]

Ok, then assuming the vamps converted someone, wouldn't they convert one of the more vocal/active members in the house?

[Kraegor]

Well, that confuses things a bit.

well an actual transcript of the nights exact events published to the "Daily Lynchee" was considered invasive.

[Kraegor]

Genghis would be my first choice to sire as a baddie.

sure why not, already has bloodthirsty tendencies, strikes fear into mobs.... +3 vs Chinese.

[Grundbegriff]

What Austin said.

the absolute single clearest path to victory for them is to convert someone from the Kine and make the ratio of vamps to villagers a little more even.

Waiting past day one would be a devastating tactic, but there's so much risk to it that I'd call it less than likely.

I'm drawn to high-risk tactics, just because it's fun to be gutsy. I can't be the only one.

Still, I grant that first-night conversion is the safe path, and with so few people the safe path is also the most probable.

[Grundbegriff]

If the vampires try to convert a human being protected by the priest the conversion will fail

Yeah, but what if the Vampires try to convert Bubba, and the Priest is protecting Vincent Vampire? Would that mean a conversion and the death of the Priest? Or would the Priest's death interfere with the conversion?

[triggercut]

Question for tru1cy: Does the Priest know if he successfully protected last night?

If so, might not be the worst play in the world for the Priest to come out right now and let us know.

[Austin]

If the vampires try to convert a human being protected by the priest the conversion will fail

Yeah, but what if the Vampires try to convert Bubba, and the Priest is protecting Vincent Vampire? Would that mean a conversion and the death of the Priest? Or would the Priest's death interfere with the conversion?

In that case the priest dies, Bubba is safe and the elder retains his powers. (Assuming Tru1cy is treating it like past games)

[tru1cy]

If the vampires try to convert a human being protected by the priest the conversion will fail

Yeah, but what if the Vampires try to convert Bubba, and the Priest is protecting Vincent Vampire? Would that mean a conversion and the death of the Priest? Or would the Priest's death interfere with the conversion?

The conversion would fail as the priest will die for protecting a vamp. They can attempt a conversion on the next night cycle

[Grundbegriff]

It's not even worth discussing a 2 vamp scenario right now IMO. We must move forward under the assumption that there are 3 vamps; right now.

I think that's right.

1. The Mage undoubtedly scanned someone. According to the Remus Rule, the Seer should always scan someone who's likely to be alive for a long time. Those who disagree with the Remus Rule say that it's better to scan someone who's likely to cause trouble in the early game (and thereby lock in the result).

2. Maybe the Priest protected someone whom the Vampires also tried to recruit. Technically, it's possible. However, it seems extremely unlikely. First, the Priest would have had to roll the dice on missing the Vampires. Second, the Priest would have had to choose the very person the Vampires would recruit. Seems like a non-starter. (Whom would they choose? High profile? Low Profile? Opening game tactician? Under-the-radar endgamer?)

We're dealing with three Vampires.

[Austin]

Question for tru1cy: Does the Priest know if he successfully protected last night?

If so, might not be the worst play in the world for the Priest to come out right now and let us know.

How do you get there from here

Waiting past day one would be a devastating tactic, but there's so much risk to it that I'd call it less than likely.

in a few posts?

[Remus West]

Edit to say... the conversion was interrupted in one of my elder vamp experience games. I think we hit a twin, or something happened to mess up the conversion. It wasn't a protection so I don't recall 100% There was a more complicated ruleset that game so it probably wasn't anything that could happen this game. Point being I was dancing that next day just to stay alive one more day. If there is a death tonight and pressure gets put on someone tomorrow, and that someone comes out as seer we have to be really decisive about letting him live or die. However this point should be moot.

The first time we played this you and I were Vampires. Newcastle was our beserker. We found CR as the hunter and killed him night 1. Grund was the Mage and called out Newcastle who beserked and ate him. We then tried to convert Ralph who was a twin so we ended up killing both he and Lassr instead then converting Kelric the next night. We kept you alive after you had been scanned by saying the "real" mage should stay hidden. Was not the best moment for the villagers.

[Grundbegriff]

might not be the worst play in the world for the Priest to come out right now and let us know.

[Austin]

withdraw Genghis

Who I would chose has no bearing as it is completely dependent upon the make-up of the original 2.

[triggercut]

Ok, then assuming the vamps converted someone, wouldn't they convert one of the more vocal/active members in the house?

Not necessarily.

If you're a vamp and a smart, vocal player is in the village team, there would be some urge to convert that player....

...but realize that such players tend to be high-profile, and thus draw suspicion from all corners. The longer these players stay in the game, the more complicated it becomes for the Vamps to construct false scenarios explaining away the fact that such a player hasn't been slain.

Austin is right. The smart play for Team Vampire is to convert a player who plays well and demonstrates the ability to think quickly on his feet...but who also has the ability to fly under the radar a bit. Such a description applies to pretty much everyone in this game, but players like Genghis, pr0ner, and Unagi would be especially effective converts.

[Austin]

Edit to say... the conversion was interrupted in one of my elder vamp experience games. I think we hit a twin, or something happened to mess up the conversion. It wasn't a protection so I don't recall 100% There was a more complicated ruleset that game so it probably wasn't anything that could happen this game. Point being I was dancing that next day just to stay alive one more day. If there is a death tonight and pressure gets put on someone tomorrow, and that someone comes out as seer we have to be really decisive about letting him live or die. However this point should be moot.

The first time we played this you and I were Vampires. Newcastle was our beserker. We found CR as the hunter and killed him night 1. Grund was the Mage and called out Newcastle who beserked and ate him. We then tried to convert Ralph who was a twin so we ended up killing both he and Lassr instead then converting Kelric the next night. We kept you alive after you had been scanned by saying the "real" mage should stay hidden. Was not the best moment for the villagers.

I do enjoy the more complicated rulesets. I liked the one with Smutly and Genghis and I doing the, "I'm the priest/mage" dance. I don't recall... why didn't we convert Chaos on night 1?

[Grundbegriff]

How do you get there... from here ...' in a few posts?

He's highly mobile-- like a bat....

[Lassr]

Ok, then assuming the vamps converted someone, wouldn't they convert one of the more vocal/active members in the house?

Not necessarily. The more vocal ones sometimes tend to get lynched early. Really it's all according to the make up of the original vampires. If you have 2 that are already somewhat vocal they may go for an under the radar player. If you have 2 quiet ones then they may go for a vocal smart player that could help them sow dissent.

[Remus West]

Given that the Priest would know if he saved someone (tru1cy said that above, there have been games where he did not know) the ONLY way he should come forward is if he was self-protected AND saved himself since he would be the undoubted target tomorrow and we would be without the Priest and the vamps would know it but we would not.

I doubt we need to worry to much about that though as the odds suggest a conversion.

Anyway, I was going to vote for Genghis since he hasn't posted since roles were given but Austin beat me to it. Guess that leave me the unenviable vote of pr0n....nah, just can not bring myself to do it.......ah, who am I kidding I certainly can....pr0ner make some noise.

[Scoop20906]

I'm thinking out loud here and would love some feedback.

Since everyone is assuming that we have three vamps now, wouldn't the best first day strategy be to try to figure out who the vamps would convert?

If I were a vamp, who would I want on my side? One of the vets, right? Also, someone that is good at convincing others.

To me, that makes the following conversion suspects:

Remus West
Austin
Grundbegriff

Comments?

[Austin]

He's being too nice too. Feels like he is cozying up. I mean maybe he's on the Kraegor diet but...

[Austin]

He's being too nice too. Feels like he is cozying up. I mean maybe he's on the Kraegor diet but...

Trig, that is.


stupid Lassr.