Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

[Arcanis]

the high lighed section is in reference to inexperienced players who would knee jerk to voting for Grund. While the experienced players likely wouldn't.

[stessier]

that is weird. I looked at grund's post and saw that he hadn't included the abilities of the Uruk-hai or gollum, but now the Uruk powers are there and no edit is shown.

Grund did you edit that post?

He's always editing stuff. You have to post quickly after he does to lock him down so the edit's show up as being edits. (You know that edits don't show as edits until there's a post below it, right?)

[Arcanis]

ok got it Grund. I just thought that it was going to be a problem if we couldn't tell if posts got edited or not. That or my browser was somehow dropping data and i wouldn't get entire posts, which would really screw me up.

[Grundbegriff]

So one morning a Hobbit is captured and suddenly the Servants have the the Ring.

This, in particular, is your mistake. Unless there are five rings of power in play, and not just the one.

[Grundbegriff]

that is weird. I looked at grund's post and saw that he hadn't included the abilities of the Uruk-hai or gollum, but now the Uruk powers are there and no edit is shown.

Grund did you edit that post?

He's always editing stuff. You have to post quickly after he does to lock him down so the edit's show up as being edits. (You know that edits don't show as edits until there's a post below it, right?)

He knows that now!

Yes, I frequently edit posts because I frequently decide on changes to format, to fix typos/errors, or to enhance usability and meaning. For example, I edited the tools post again to give Boromir alternating team colors!

[stessier]

The Hobbits are proven by being captured. The problem is, the method of capture (1 at a time) will also tell everyone who has the Ring. The Ring can only be passed during the day, but a Prisoner can't pass it.

But the one who was captured doesn't necessarily have it. He'd be captured rather than killed on account of race/species, not foreknowledge of ring-possession. The Witch-King cannot communicate (in anything other than a raspy grunt) to the Uruks.

Um, the Uruk kills/captures. The Witch King converts. Hobbits are immune to conversion, so would just block the Witch King. When the Uruk tries to kill the Hobbit, they are instead captured.

Theoretically it is possible the Hobbit just captured doesn't have it as the Hobbit could have passed it blind and corrupted someone, but since we all agreed Frodo should hold it to the end, this seems high unlikely (and stunningly bad strategy for Frodo to pass it blind).

[Arcanis]

Interesting as the Uruk could help us in the end by proving who is a hobbit for Frodo to hand it to later.

[stessier]

So one morning a Hobbit is captured and suddenly the Servants have the the Ring.

This, in particular, is your mistake. Unless there are five rings of power in play, and not just the one.

Why would there need to be 5 rings? I don't understand my mistake.

[stessier]

I edited the tools post again to give Boromir alternating team colors!

That was a nice touch.

[Chaosraven]

LL - What happens if URUKHAI targets Boromir?



Boromir
Boromir wants to bring the One Ring to his father Denethor, Steward of Gondor. He is corrupted for all intents and purposes but will scan as one of the Free People until corrupted by the Witch-King or by possession of the One Ring. He wins with the Servants of the Eye, not with the Fellowship.


Uruk-Hai
The Uruk-Hai are given command by Saruman to seek out and capture the Hobbits, alive and unspoiled, for they carry an Elvish weapon. Each Journey, the Uruk-Hai may target one player. If target player is a Servant of the Eye, the Uruk will be told by Saruman to stay away from the target. In this case, nothing happens. If target player is uncorrupted Free People, that player is killed. If target player is a Hobbit, Frodo or Gollum, that player is captured. Uruk-Hai targeting may be disrupted by Aragorn. The Uruk-Hai is told if and what kind of action was disrupted by Aragorn (kill, capture).

[Grundbegriff]

The Hobbits are proven by being captured. The problem is, the method of capture (1 at a time) will also tell everyone who has the Ring. The Ring can only be passed during the day, but a Prisoner can't pass it.

But the one who was captured doesn't necessarily have it. He'd be captured rather than killed on account of race/species, not foreknowledge of ring-possession. The Witch-King cannot communicate (in anything other than a raspy grunt) to the Uruks.

Um, the Uruk kills/captures. The Witch King converts. Hobbits are immune to conversion, so would just block the Witch King. When the Uruk tries to kill the Hobbit, they are instead captured.

Exactly. How does that contradict anything I said? My point is that your earlier argument assumes that if a Hobbit (any Hobbit) is captured, the Ring is suddently somehow in Enemy Hands. Why suppose so?

Theoretically it is possible the Hobbit just captured doesn't have it as the Hobbit could have passed it blind and corrupted someone, but since we all agreed Frodo should hold it to the end, this seems high unlikely (and stunningly bad strategy for Frodo to pass it blind).

But then, your scenario is really only triggered if Frodo is captured. Captures of other Hobbits would by definition not result in the Enemy's possession of the Ring.

[Chaosraven]

So one morning a Hobbit is captured and suddenly the Servants have the the Ring.

This, in particular, is your mistake. Unless there are five rings of power in play, and not just the one.

Why would there need to be 5 rings? I don't understand my mistake.

If 'a hobbit' is captured, that's only one of five... and only one of 5 has the Ring. Just cuz a hobbit is nabbed, doesn't mean the Servants have the Ring. And actually... EVERYONE WILL KNOW... hmmm. Cuz it's posted. Whether Fellowship/Servants have it.

[Grundbegriff]

LL - What happens if URUKHAI targets Boromir?

Good point. That seems to imply that Semaj couldn't have been Boromir.

We are so hosed.

[stessier]

The Hobbits are proven by being captured. The problem is, the method of capture (1 at a time) will also tell everyone who has the Ring. The Ring can only be passed during the day, but a Prisoner can't pass it.

But the one who was captured doesn't necessarily have it. He'd be captured rather than killed on account of race/species, not foreknowledge of ring-possession. The Witch-King cannot communicate (in anything other than a raspy grunt) to the Uruks.

Um, the Uruk kills/captures. The Witch King converts. Hobbits are immune to conversion, so would just block the Witch King. When the Uruk tries to kill the Hobbit, they are instead captured.

Exactly. How does that contradict anything I said? My point is that your earlier argument assumes that if a Hobbit (any Hobbit) is captured, the Ring is suddently somehow in Enemy Hands. Why suppose so?

Ah, I explained poorly and you misunderstood.

I said the in capturing the Hobbits one at a time, everyone will know who had the Ring. Here is the scenario I envisioned.

1. Hobbit is captured.
2. The Free People are announced to still have the Ring.
3. Ergo, the captured Hobbit does not have the Ring.
4. We elect to send a Scout
5. Next morning, another Hobbit is captured. (Dang things apparently don't run very fast.)
6. Servants are announced to have the Ring.
7. There is a very high probability that the newly captured Hobbit is the Ring Bearer. Continually recapturing this Hobbit will prevent the Ring from being passed.

Does that make more sense?

[stessier]

LL - What happens if URUKHAI targets Boromir?

Good point. That seems to imply that Semaj couldn't have been Boromir.

We are so hosed.

I would think the opposite. Only Servants of the Eye are blocked. He is a Free Person until officially corrupted.

[Chaosraven]

Downside - proven Hobbit, proven NonRing Bearer for scans by witchking and gollum (doesn't waste time), future attack capture again

Upside - proven Hobbit (can't be corrupted by witchking) - Required for Win!

QUESTION:

If playerX is proven as Hobbit, given the Ring on Final Journey and is Captured on Final Journey, do servants win Chapter Seven or are we given the chance to Hunt Some Orc to free him?

[stessier]

Downside - proven Hobbit, proven NonRing Bearer for scans by witchking and gollum (doesn't waste time), future attack capture again

Upside - proven Hobbit (can't be corrupted by witchking) - Required for Win!

QUESTION:

If playerX is proven as Hobbit, given the Ring on Final Journey and is Captured on Final Journey, do servants win Chapter Seven or are we given the chance to Hunt Some Orc to free him?

We lose.

The Servants of the Eye wins if:
At the start of the 7th Chapter: If the Servants of the Eye controls the One Ring, the Servants of the Eye wins.
After the start of the 7th Chapter: If Frodo has the Ring and fails to pass it on to another Hobbit or to Gollum, the Servants of the Eye wins.

[Grundbegriff]

LL - What happens if URUKHAI targets Boromir?

Good point. That seems to imply that Semaj couldn't have been Boromir.

We are so hosed.

I would think the opposite. Only Servants of the Eye are blocked. He is a Free Person until officially corrupted.

In that case, "He is corrupted for all intents and purposes" is unfortunate wording, since there are actually no intents and no purposes for which he counts as corrupted until explicitly corrupted.

[Chaosraven]

I would think the opposite. Only Servants of the Eye are blocked. He is a Free Person until officially corrupted.

Boromir
Boromir wants to bring the One Ring to his father Denethor, Steward of Gondor. He is corrupted for all intents and purposes but will scan as one of the Free People until corrupted by the Witch-King or by possession of the One Ring. He wins with the Servants of the Eye, not with the Fellowship.

LL - Well?

[Remus West]

So one morning a Hobbit is captured and suddenly the Servants have the the Ring.

This, in particular, is your mistake. Unless there are five rings of power in play, and not just the one.

If the Ring switches control either the player captured that night had it or the bearer passed it to someone else. Assuming the bearer is smart enough not to pass it willy nilly then we would know that the player captured has the ring. We would need to free them and they would then need to pass the thing to keep it away from the Servants.

[stessier]

We would need to free them and they would then need to pass the thing to keep it away from the Servants.

Yep, except the Ring can only be passed before the end of the day and Hunting Orc (and thus freeing prisoners) ends the day. A little conundrum there.

[Chaosraven]

We would need to free them and they would then need to pass the thing to keep it away from the Servants.

Yep, except the Ring can only be passed before the end of the day and Hunting Orc (and thus freeing prisoners) ends the day. A little conundrum there.

Journey sequence of events:

Uncorrupted Ringbearer may pass on the Ring.
Aragorn protects.
Gollum steals.
Witch-King searches.
Witch-King corrupts.
Uruk-Hai hunts.
Gandalf scans.

Chapter sequence of events:

Broadcast:
Which faction (Fellowship, Servants of the Eye, Gollum) controls the One Ring.
Which players are captured by the Uruk-Hai.
Remaining players.
Display ”You may Hunt some Orc” if ”Hunt some Orc” is legal.

======

Ring passed at Start of JOURNEY, not Chapter

[Remus West]

Considering the work he put in to match game to book I would assume the Urakhai would kill Boromir. That is pure conjecture though.

Considering all the captured Hobbits shouldn't we have access to Treebeard at some point?

[Chaosraven]

Problem of course, is Who to Pass the Ring to, if no other Hobbit has been Captured(thereby Proven), and that same Target cannot possess Ring again before Chapter Seven.

Best Case - PlayerX captured, No Ring. PlayerFrodo captured, has Ring. Can pass Ring after freedom obtained Chapter Six to PlayerX if PlayerX is protected by Aragorn. Wake up Chapter Seven. WIN

[stessier]

We would need to free them and they would then need to pass the thing to keep it away from the Servants.

Yep, except the Ring can only be passed before the end of the day and Hunting Orc (and thus freeing prisoners) ends the day. A little conundrum there.

Journey sequence of events:

Uncorrupted Ringbearer may pass on the Ring.
Aragorn protects.
Gollum steals.
Witch-King searches.
Witch-King corrupts.
Uruk-Hai hunts.
Gandalf scans.

Chapter sequence of events:

Broadcast:
Which faction (Fellowship, Servants of the Eye, Gollum) controls the One Ring.
Which players are captured by the Uruk-Hai.
Remaining players.
Display ”You may Hunt some Orc” if ”Hunt some Orc” is legal.

======

Ring passed at Start of JOURNEY, not Chapter

I was going from this

HOBBIT GAMEPLAY

Frodo, Gollum or the Hobbits may become captured by the Uruk-Hai. A captured player is forbidden to post or vote so long as he is captured. A captured player may not be Appointed as Scout (lynched) until freed. If the captured player is a Ringbearer, that player keeps the Ring until he is released. Possession of the One Ring is considered to be with the Servants of the Eye faction in this instance. If the Ringbearer is freed by Hunt some Orc, however, and still uncorrupted the possession of the Ring goes back to whatever faction the Ringbearer has (Fellowship or Gollum). If the Uruk-Hai is killed while players are captured, those players are not freed but the Uruk-Hai is removed as an active player. In this case, goblins and orcs are considered to have run off with the little ones until the Fellowship have successfully Hunted some Orc.

Frodo and Hobbit Ringbearers may pass the Ring on to any other player at any time during a Chapter, before voting is closed, by sending a PM to the Moderator specifying which player the Ring is to be given. The recipient of the Ring will be told the player name of the player who sent the Ring to him. The Ring may only be passed on once per Chapter. The Ring may not be passed to a captured or dead player. If a Ringbearer is voted out before he is able or willing to pass the Ring on, Frodo finds it. If Frodo is dead or captured, it will be determined randomly who finds it. Captured players may not receive the Ring this way. Any of the Free People who holds the ring will be corrupted immediately and ally with the Servants of the Eye.

LL - which is it?

[Brendan]

Considering the work he put in to match game to book I would assume the Urakhai would kill Boromir.

Spoiler alert!

[Remus West]

Problem of course, is Who to Pass the Ring to, if no other Hobbit has been Captured(thereby Proven), and that same Target cannot possess Ring again before Chapter Seven.

Best Case - PlayerX captured, No Ring. PlayerFrodo captured, has Ring. Can pass Ring after freedom obtained Chapter Six to PlayerX if PlayerX is protected by Aragorn. Wake up Chapter Seven. WIN

Best Case is we nail all the Sevrants before round 7.

Second best would be that Gandalf survives to 6 with a list of scanned Hobbits to provide us and we can then lynch him to be able to trust his list and use it to guide the passing of the ring on day 7. Although captured Hobbits work too I suppose.

[Brendan]

With respect to "who would've killed Semaj?", while I'm sure old enmities can come into play, I think it's probably best if we just assume that it was random; there's not much of an opportunity to create tells in the opening moments.

[Chaosraven]

Problem of course, is Who to Pass the Ring to, if no other Hobbit has been Captured(thereby Proven), and that same Target cannot possess Ring again before Chapter Seven.

Best Case - PlayerX captured, No Ring. PlayerFrodo captured, has Ring. Can pass Ring after freedom obtained Chapter Six to PlayerX if PlayerX is protected by Aragorn. Wake up Chapter Seven. WIN

Best Case is we nail all the Sevrants before round 7.

Second best would be that Gandalf survives to 6 with a list of scanned Hobbits to provide us and we can then lynch him to be able to trust his list and use it to guide the passing of the ring on day 7. Although captured Hobbits work too I suppose.

Actually we NEED the Urukhai to capture at least one Hobbit prior to Chapter Seven, or Gandalf to post Single Hobbit for Passing.

For example, what if we just lost Gandalf?

[Chaosraven]

With respect to "who would've killed Semaj?", while I'm sure old enmities can come into play, I think it's probably best if we just assume that it was random; there's not much of an opportunity to create tells in the opening moments.

So we look at Semaj only posts and interactions thereof.

[Brendan]

Eh - half the first round deaths in these games are arbitrary or chosen simply for entertainment value.

[Chaosraven]

Eh - half the first round deaths in these games are arbitrary or chosen simply for entertainment value.

And yet the other half are as simple as a Remus West/Chaosraven rivalry... still entertaining, but usually just to us.

[Arcanis]

Eh - half the first round deaths in these games are arbitrary or chosen simply for entertainment value.

And yet the other half are as simple as a Remus West/Chaosraven rivalry... still entertaining, but usually just to us.

so this insinuates that neither of you was Uruk or one of you would be dead. On the other hand if one was WK the other would be corrupted.

[Chaosraven]

With respect to "who would've killed Semaj?", while I'm sure old enmities can come into play, I think it's probably best if we just assume that it was random; there's not much of an opportunity to create tells in the opening moments.

So we look at Semaj only posts and interactions thereof.

The single InGame Post

Are there 14 sides in this one? Only 3 with gollum being the wildcard but one thats apparently needed.

Anyways... I'ma be in my bunk... lemme know when we get there.

Heh.. first page-

Wewt I get a game off... I AM SO NAPPING!

Wait... I could have played with redrun and arcanis.... aww...

O well... Good luck lads... I totally dont need it

You could be our automatic first kill. Maybe you can be that gatekeeper in Bree that got swashed by the Ring Wraiths.

I guess we send Mr Bubbles off to Scou... oh.

[Brendan]

As I go over the rules again (and think about our post-mortem in scoop's game), is there a potential incentive for a non-Frodo hobbit to hang on to the ring to corrupt themselves in the event that the free people are losing?

Clearly we all agree that Frodo should hold on to the ring; I'm just wondering how we prevent a hobbit who sees things going south from aligning themselves with the baddies by just hanging on to it in the event that it gets passed earlier on.

How can we disincentivize such behavior besides locking them in a monastery to keep them pure of heart?

[Chaosraven]

Eh - half the first round deaths in these games are arbitrary or chosen simply for entertainment value.

And yet the other half are as simple as a Remus West/Chaosraven rivalry... still entertaining, but usually just to us.

On the other hand if one was WK the other would be corrupted.

Yep, Remus is the Witchking and I used to be Aragorn, you guys are f'ed.

[Chaosraven]

I think I'm going to want answers from the Mod to the Floating Questions

[Remus West]

As I go over the rules again (and think about our post-mortem in scoop's game), is there a potential incentive for a non-Frodo hobbit to hang on to the ring to corrupt themselves in the event that the free people are losing?

Clearly we all agree that Frodo should hold on to the ring; I'm just wondering how we prevent a hobbit who sees things going south from aligning themselves with the baddies by just hanging on to it in the event that it gets passed earlier on.

How can we disincentivize such behavior besides locking them in a monastery to keep them pure of heart?

Don't give them the ring before round 7 and they won't have time to convert.

[stessier]

I think I'm going to want answers from the Mod to the Floating Questions

The guy's probably eating dinner. A wee bit impatient today, aren't we?

[Remus West]

Eh - half the first round deaths in these games are arbitrary or chosen simply for entertainment value.

And yet the other half are as simple as a Remus West/Chaosraven rivalry... still entertaining, but usually just to us.

On the other hand if one was WK the other would be corrupted.

Yep, Remus is the Witchking and I used to be Aragorn, you guys are f'ed.

Thought I told you to claim Gandalf so we could smoke him out. Sheesh. the simplest of plans ruined by poor help.