OOWW: JLA ... GAME OVER!

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:38 pm

Thanks!

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:48 pm

El Guapo wrote: I think Batman would be able to tell whether a conversion was used (as I think that's the only way the number of villains would increase), though it probably would not be worth him coming out just for that.

This is only true beginning tomorrow morning (game day). Batman would have no idea if the Harley conversion was made last night (or if it was a protection). Batman gets his totals each morning and this is the first morning.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:50 pm

Qantaga wrote:
El Guapo wrote: I think Batman would be able to tell whether a conversion was used (as I think that's the only way the number of villains would increase), though it probably would not be worth him coming out just for that.

This is only true beginning tomorrow morning (game day). Batman would have no idea if the Harley conversion was made last night (or if it was a protection). Batman gets his totals each morning and this is the first morning.

Yeah, I meant he would be able to tell tomorrow morning.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:53 pm

bb2112 wrote:
theohall wrote:He missed a few spots.
I did miss one. Had to see if you guys were paying attention.

One? I hope you don't work on airplanes with that lack of attention to detail.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:53 pm

El Guapo wrote:
bb2112 wrote:
coopasonic wrote:though I could be convinced to vote for bb for not knowing the DC Universe characters and openly admitting it.
This is where I should say how I was too busy with sports, friends, and girls as a kid to be caught up in comic books. Oh how I wish I could say I was even close to being that cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgOB7VWjlSQ" target="_blank
Honestly I'm surprised that Remus hasn't already jumped on this as a reason to vote for you.

First, I haven't really been free to check in much so wasn't ready to throw anyone under the bus. Second, I didn't even look at the graphic to know which character the original question arose from. Third, I was too busy with sports, friends, and girls to know who it was anyway. I read X-Men growing up and that was it. Well, New Mutants as well but only because they were little X-Men in my eyes. I was that cool. At least in my own eyes. That ended long ago though. Now I hang out with a bunch of nerdy freaky on the internet.

Speaking of which, yesterday I played in the Michigan Adult Rec Volleyball State tournament. They had an arcade in one area of the building we played in. 5 of the 6 guys on the team are gamers (although only 2 of us are really into board games). Each of us individually warned the 6th guy that if he couldn't find us at some point during the day that he should check there first.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:55 pm

So now the question is, was it a hero power that lead to the miss or a conversion? Reading over Harley Quinn:

Harley Quinn - Harley retains Original Powers of her Original Role. Will Scan as Villain/Harley Quinn

After thinking about this for a while, it seems to me that a rush to do a conversion night one would potentially be a waste. If the conversion could be done to a confirmed hero, then it would be more advantageous for the bad guys to have said hero on their team. Not saying that it is impossible, but why waste it night one when they don't know anyone yet. The odds of a first day lynch of the Joker would probably be pretty small, so it is unlikely it is a use it or lose it scenario.

This being said, it seems like El Guapo's original assessment is probably correct. We most likely do have a hero that somehow foiled the lynch.

CR, if the lynch is foiled, would the hero causing the foiling be notified? If Flash protected would he know he foiled a lynch? Or if Atom was the attempted lynch, would he know that he was being saught out to be killed? I think you answered already in Elongated Man's case, so I wont reask.

Elongated Man - Ralph will elude the first attack against him at Night. The Villains will not be told why it failed, but he will be notified he was the Target.

Also, would the villains get information, like the attack failed due to Flash's protection, or because they targeted Atom?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:56 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Qantaga wrote:
El Guapo wrote: I think Batman would be able to tell whether a conversion was used (as I think that's the only way the number of villains would increase), though it probably would not be worth him coming out just for that.

This is only true beginning tomorrow morning (game day). Batman would have no idea if the Harley conversion was made last night (or if it was a protection). Batman gets his totals each morning and this is the first morning.
Yeah, I meant he would be able to tell tomorrow morning.

No he won't. He'll be able to tell us "There are still the same number as the first day." or "There are more than the first day". If they already converted his numbers will never go up.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:15 pm

bb2112 wrote:CR, if the lynch is foiled, would the hero causing the foiling be notified? If Flash protected would he know he foiled a lynch? Or if Atom was the attempted lynch, would he know that he was being saught out to be killed? I think you answered already in Elongated Man's case, so I wont reask.

Elongated Man - Ralph will elude the first attack against him at Night. The Villains will not be told why it failed, but he will be notified he was the Target.

Also, would the villains get information, like the attack failed due to Flash's protection, or because they targeted Atom?

Assuming you mean Kill rather than Lynch.

Wonder Woman - Each night, Wonder Woman can compel truth regarding the Role of any other Player. If that Player is targeted for attack by the Villains that evening, the attack will fail. Wonder Woman cannot check the same Player twice in the Game. If Protected is the Target of attack, none of the parties involved will be told.

Green Arrow - has a Single Arrow. Green Arrow must PM his intent prior to majority vote to use his arrow during the Day. If Green Arrow shoots either a Hero or a Villain that Player will die. If Green Arrow shoots a Normal, that player will not die and the target is PROTECTED that Night. Green Arrows use of the Power will be Public, but not his identity. If Protected is the Target of attack, none of the parties involved will be told.

Elongated Man - Ralph will elude the first attack against him at Night. The Villains will not be told why it failed, but he will be notified he was the Target.

The Flash - the Flash may Protect another Player from the Villains at Night. The Flash may not protect the Same Player on consecutive Nights. If Protected is the Target of attack, none of the parties involved will be told.

Atom: unless his identity is Known/Verified cannot be killed at Night. The Atom will be informed of his evasion.

In the above examples, the Villains are informed "Attack Failed" but not why.
The only info from "Attack Failed" are in the event the Target was Elongated Man or Atom, and that info is given only to the Hero.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:18 pm

Remus West wrote:
El Guapo wrote:
Qantaga wrote:
El Guapo wrote: I think Batman would be able to tell whether a conversion was used (as I think that's the only way the number of villains would increase), though it probably would not be worth him coming out just for that.

This is only true beginning tomorrow morning (game day). Batman would have no idea if the Harley conversion was made last night (or if it was a protection). Batman gets his totals each morning and this is the first morning.
Yeah, I meant he would be able to tell tomorrow morning.
No he won't. He'll be able to tell us "There are still the same number as the first day." or "There are more than the first day". If they already converted his numbers will never go up.

Bah! You're right. Though at least Batman would be able to say "they converted on the first night or not at all" if the number never went up.

And bb is right that if they convert first night they would lose many benefits from conversion (converting a proven). Plus they could wind up converting a hero whose power doesn't help them as much, like Elongated Man). Of course, the might still choose to convert first night lest the Joker wind up getting lynched day 1 (I believe the conversion can only happen at night), and without a reliable scanner (Riddler's ability is a little unpredictable) it's tough for them to pick the right superhero to convert.

So there are probably too many variables right now to say whether it was conversion or failed attack.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:36 pm

bb2112

foil that lynch, bub.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:48 pm

Unagi wrote:bub.

Is Logan in this game?

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:52 pm

Remus West wrote:
Unagi wrote:bub.
Is Logan in this game?

I'm pretty sure he was one of the Wonder Twins in a previous life. I'll leave it up to you which one.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:41 pm

El Guapo wrote:So there are probably too many variables right now to say whether it was conversion or failed attack.

I agree, we don't know for sure. However, even though we don't know with 100% certainty, I still think it would be premature for the villains to use the Joker's power. JMHO.

So for what it is worth, In my head we most likely have Flash, WW, Atom, and/or Elongated Man in the game. Villians have no idea how the lynch night kill (damn, I wrote lynch again and had to go back and write night kill) was foiled, and the victim will only know if it was Elongated Man or Atom.

And for Unagi and Theohall, I'm trying to do this at work, during close, with people coming in and out of my office every few minutes. You should be happy with any kind of coherancy from me. As a matter of fact, anything above Lord Mortis level of coherancy and I should get a shiny medal.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:59 pm

bb2112 wrote:
El Guapo wrote:So there are probably too many variables right now to say whether it was conversion or failed attack.
I agree, we don't know for sure. However, even though we don't know with 100% certainty, I still think it would be premature for the villains to use the Joker's power. JMHO.

So for what it is worth, In my head we most likely have Flash, WW, Atom, and/or Elongated Man in the game. Villians have no idea how the lynch night kill (damn, I wrote lynch again and had to go back and write night kill) was foiled, and the victim will only know if it was Elongated Man or Atom.

And for Unagi and Theohall, I'm trying to do this at work, during close, with people coming in and out of my office every few minutes. You should be happy with any kind of coherancy from me. As a matter of fact, anything above Lord Mortis level of coherancy and I should get a shiny medal.

Like in grade school where everybody wins?

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:34 pm

My thinking bb is actually this:

A wolf sometimes (I think. I could just be making this up) but, a wolf occassionally speaks about the night kil event and then calls it a lynch, because he is now involved in night kills, in the same way he normally is with lynches.

The fact that you are very busy only helps put a reason to your unattentiveness, it doesn't change the concept.

That being said, I'm quite sure unattentiveness of this nature isn't just a wolf thing.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:50 pm

Unagi wrote:My thinking bb is actually this:

A wolf sometimes (I think. I could just be making this up) but, a wolf occassionally speaks about the night kil event and then calls it a lynch, because he is now involved in night kills, in the same way he normally is with lynches.

The fact that you are very busy only helps put a reason to your unattentiveness, it doesn't change the concept.

That being said, I'm quite sure unattentiveness of this nature isn't just a wolf thing.

Not saying anything, but last game it was reasoning like this that outed one of our powered players. I am not saying that is the same thing here, just saying that at this junction do we want to try to lynch someone because of this? I often think of the night kills as lynches..Call it my newerness to the game...<shrug>

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:32 pm

theohall wrote:
Like in grade school where everybody wins?

Speaking from experience?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:34 pm

VOTES

2 bb2112 - Lassr, Unagi

1 coopasonic - Newcastle
1 Qantaga - El Guapo
1 Lassr - theohall
1 Unagi - Lagom Lite
1 Mr Bubbles - purge
1 purge - Mr Bubbles
1 Isgrimnur - coopasonic
1 Austin - tru1cy

purge · Post by **purge** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:07 pm

bb2112 wrote:
theohall wrote:
Like in grade school where everybody wins?
Speaking from experience?

HEY! That trophy COUNTS!

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:52 pm

Day 1. How I hate you.

I think we should go after silents.

Grundbegriff

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:56 am

bb2112 slips (?), RMC defends bb2112. Unagi calls attention to the slip.

bb2112 tries to deflect the spotlight by voting for Grund, a guy who we should never kill on day 1.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:58 am

withdraw Unagi

bb2112

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:17 am

Lagom Lite wrote:Wow! I am a bad guy and these Other guys have made this pretty easy for me. If they are willing to kill an innocent, who am to stand in their way. Suckers.

bb2112

FTFY.

Unagi I understand. I think he is fishing. He is all cagey like that. You on the other hand know better. Was it a slip indicating I am evil to say lynch instead of night kill? That is a huge stretch. And a bad one. Couldn't you make an argument that as a good guy I only think of kills as lynches? Since that is the only type of kill I can participate in? Hmmm? Your argument is weak. At best.

And about Grund. Did I say I wanted to see him dead on day 1? No, I said I think we should lynch silents. He was the most silent so far, so I decided to poke. How is poking silents different than every other day 1 ever? And that is your other reason for your vote? A poke? Again, weak. Now it makes me think if we lynch you, and you are evil, then maybe you are trying to protect Grund.

You are a bad dude, and need to be tested.

Lagom Lite

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:02 am

Yes, partly, Lagom's type of reaction to my accusal was what I was looking for, as well as how bb2112 handled it all, himself.

Lagom doesn't really normally go for the day 1 possible slip-up logic.

He also had a strange order of events in his description, regarding RMC.

Lagom Lite

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:25 am

Lagom Lite wrote:Grund, a guy who we should never kill on day 1.

Why not?

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:51 am

Lagom Lite wrote:bb2112 slips (?), RMC defends bb2112. Unagi calls attention to the slip.

bb2112 tries to deflect the spotlight by voting for Grund, a guy who we should never kill on day 1.

I guess it could be construed as me defending BB, but I really was just trying to point out that I hate when someone jumps on a day 1 lynch over a small wording 'thing'. I think day one is a great time to find those things and bring them back up later, when there are other slips or trends. I was not trying to exonerating anyone just urging caution over something that may or may not have been a 'slip'.

So now, we have LL using Unagi's pointing out BB's "slip", and flipping the order of when things happened...(Implying that I defended BB prior to Unagi calling attention to it) And well that is a little more lighting up my radar for a day one lynch.

So for right now I am throwing my vote on Lagom Lite

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:16 am

VOTES

3 Lagom Lite - bb2112, Unagi, RMC

2 bb2112 - Lassr, Lagom Lite

1 coopasonic - Newcastle
1 Qantaga - El Guapo
1 Lassr - theohall
1 Mr Bubbles - purge
1 purge - Mr Bubbles
1 Isgrimnur - coopasonic
1 Austin - tru1cy

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:38 am

Interesting interesting. Generally I think 'slips' are useless or close to useless, and even if I didn't lynch vs. kill for the night kill doesn't strike me as a particularly interesting slip anyways - kind of reminds me of the is vs. was thing. The day 1 vote is generally semi-random, so it's not like bb is a much worse choice than anyone else, to be sure, but I wouldn't vote based on the lynch vs. kill thing.

Also interesting how quickly the counter-train on Lagom has moved.

As for Grund - voting for silents is a reasonable approach, especially early on when we don't have a lot to go on so we might as well favor quieter folks who would then be harder to nail down in later days. Lagoms 'we don't want to kill Grund early' comment, which I think I've heard argued in other games as well, is I think based on the idea that Grund is a very helpful and good player so we don't want to risk killing him when he's (statistically) probably good. Which is fair enough, though if he wound up being evil we'd be denying his abilities to team evil as well. Grund seems to be taking a quiet approach in the early game in most of these games lately, it seems.

Going for the quiet folks is as good an approach as any at this point. I could do Grund for that reason. But Bubbles has also been very quiet - since the game started he only popped up to respond to purge's poke of him, and to threaten to vote for bb based on his 'in' post.

Let's try that.

withdraw Qantaga
Mr. Bubbles

Also, unless I missed it - it looks like there's no deadline?

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:44 am

If we are going to poke at silents...

tru1cy

has only posted 3 times...

*burp*

[accuseunagi[/accuse ... oh who am i kidding..

" Once more, I play our dangerous game, a game of chess against my old adversary" - austin

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:51 am

El Guapo wrote: Also, unless I missed it - it looks like there's no deadline?

No deadlines.
Take as long as you need.
Use your fingers if you have to.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:53 am

VOTES

3 Lagom Lite - bb2112, Unagi, RMC

2 bb2112 - Lassr, Lagom Lite
2 Mr Bubbles - purge, El Guapo

1 coopasonic - Newcastle
1 purge - Mr Bubbles
1 Isgrimnur - coopasonic
1 Austin - tru1cy
1 tru1cy - theohall

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:58 am

Lagom Lite

appears to be trying to get a train going on the one with the most votes. The lynch "slip" was very very flimsy. My vote was simply a poke.

The one thing that makes me leery about voting for Lagom is that Unagi is now voting for him...and we know Unagi is rarely right.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:08 am

Lassr wrote: Lagom Lite

appears to be trying to get a train going on the one with the most votes.

So what, exactly, are you doing? Looks very much like extending a train on the one who has the most votes.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:38 am

El Guapo wrote: withdraw Qantaga
Mr. Bubbles

Also, unless I missed it - it looks like there's no deadline?

Interesting you go for quiet, but not too quiet. Anyway I'm analyzing the BB and Lagom thing. Lagom has my interests at the moment, but I'm not rushing my vote.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:42 am

theohall wrote:
Lassr wrote: Lagom Lite

appears to be trying to get a train going on the one with the most votes.
So what, exactly, are you doing? Looks very much like extending a train on the one who has the most votes.

I'm voting for the one that looks wolfy.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:01 pm

Mr Bubbles wrote:
El Guapo wrote: withdraw Qantaga
Mr. Bubbles

Also, unless I missed it - it looks like there's no deadline?
Interesting you go for quiet, but not too quiet. Anyway I'm analyzing the BB and Lagom thing. Lagom has my interests at the moment, but I'm not rushing my vote.

I'm kind of looking for strategically quiet. Like, you've been pretty quiet for most of the (limited) game so far, but you popped up within 17 minutes of purge voting for you. Could just be that's when you happened to log-in, or could be that you were intentionally laying low and then jumped in when you saw a push on you.

I could also go for tru1cy or Grund - as theo notes tru1cy's posted virtually nothing, while Grund has (unless I'm forgetting something) literally posted nothing. But tru1cy's always quiet, while Grund seems to always be quiet in the early game these days. There's still a solid rationale for voting for either based on them being quiet, but ideally I was hoping to find suspiciously quiet as well.

But I'm not locked in on you by any means.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:03 pm

Lagom Lite wrote:Grund, a guy who we should never kill on day 1.

Grund is such a wild card for these games that killing him is the same. I've been the innocent that catches his eye enough to know that he muddies the waters, regardless of the side he's on. Even when he's silent, his presence looms large.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:04 pm

Don't worry I'm not too panicked yet. I am purposely taking it slow. I am more honed in on the people who are trying to make things happen. Lagom can never be underestimated, hence my focus on him at this time. Grund seems to be doing what he always does, which is disappear at the beginning, so I am definitely not focusing on him at this point. Beyond that I got nothing. Too early to tell.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:21 pm

El Guapo wrote: I'm kind of looking for strategically quiet.

Speaking of which, Newcastle has been uncharacteristically quiet.

Isgrimnur also has been mostly silent (lost in Pandora, perhaps

).

bb2112 could very well be evil (isn't he due?), but I doubt the lynch/kil verbage is a true "slip."

I don't know what to think of Lagom yet. Between bb and Lagom, I'd lean Lagom more evil than bb at the moment. I don't think I want to vote Lagom today. He has been very prescient in his past few games. If he is good, he'd be nice to have around for awhile.

For now:

Newcastle

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:38 pm

Remus West wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:Grund, a guy who we should never kill on day 1.
Why not?

He's a good contributor when good. And not too hard to read when evil.

Unagi wrote:Yes, partly, Lagom's type of reaction to my accusal was what I was looking for, as well as how bb2112 handled it all, himself.

I'm really creeped out by how you're trying to emulate my behavior. And flattered!

Unagi wrote:Lagom doesn't really normally go for the day 1 possible slip-up logic.

What? Nonsense.

RMC wrote:So now, we have LL using Unagi's pointing out BB's "slip", and flipping the order of when things happened...(Implying that I defended BB prior to Unagi calling attention to it) And well that is a little more lighting up my radar for a day one lynch.

[/quote]

Fair enough, but it was unintentional. I didn't mean to imply that the events in those sentences happened in order.