Octopus Overlords

tjg_marantz wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:24 pm Pompeo is blaming Iran for at least one...

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:00 pm

tjg_marantz wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:24 pm Pompeo is blaming Iran for at least one...

Of course he is. This smells like total bullshit to me. They need to answer an important question. Why is Iran attacking oil tankers?

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:34 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:00 pm

tjg_marantz wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:24 pm Pompeo is blaming Iran for at least one...

Of course he is. This smells like total bullshit to me. They need to answer an important question. Why is Iran attacking oil tankers?

Because they hate our freedoms. Duh.

President Trump rejected Iran’s denials Friday that it attacked two tankers in the Gulf of Oman, insisting in a television interview that “Iran did do it” and pointing to a video released by the U.S. Central Command purporting to show Iranian vessels retrieving an unexploded mine from one of the damaged ships.

However, the head of the Japanese shipping company that owns one of the targeted tankers challenged the U.S. assertion that the vessel was attacked with limpet mines. He said Friday that the crew reported it was hit by “a flying object.”
...
In an interview on Fox News’s “Fox & Friends” program, Trump said, referring to the Central Command video: “Well, Iran did do it, and you know they did it because you saw the boat.”

He added: “I guess one of the mines didn’t explode, and it’s probably got essentially Iran written all over it. And you saw the boat at night, trying to take the mine off and successfully took the mine off the boat. And that was exposed. That was their boat. That was them, and they didn’t want the evidence left behind.”
...
Yutaka Katada, president of the Kokuka Sangyo shipping firm that owns the Kokuka Courageous tanker, told reporters Friday in Tokyo: “The crew are saying it was hit with a flying object. They say something come flying toward them, then there was an explosion, then there was a hole in the vessel. Then some crew witnessed a second shot.”
...
“When the shell hit, it was above the water surface by quite a lot,” Katada said. “Because of that, there is no doubt that it wasn’t a torpedo.”

He said the ship’s crew saw an Iranian military ship in the vicinity on Thursday night Japan time, Reuters news agency reported.
...
The U.S. Central Command late Thursday made public a dark, grainy video and corresponding timeline suggesting that U.S. military assets in the region observed the Iranian vessels approaching the tanker and removing the device.

“At 4:10 p.m. local time an IRGC Gashti Class patrol boat approached the M/T Kokuka Courageous and was observed and recorded removing the unexploded limpet mine” from the Courageous, said Capt. Bill Urban, a Central Command spokesman.

Senior U.S. officials showed photographs to reporters of the damaged tanker Kokuka Courageous with what the Navy identified as a suspected magnetic mine attached to its hull.

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:00 pm

tjg_marantz wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:24 pm Pompeo is blaming Iran for at least one...

Of course he is. This smells like total bullshit to me. They need to answer an important question. Why is Iran attacking oil tankers?

malchior wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:43 am It isn't surely out of their character but the timing makes little sense. Abe is in town to try to bridge the gap between Iran and the US and the Iranians attack a Japanese-flagged ship? It just strains credulity. That said, Iran has some fairly fragmented elements and it is possible one of them wanted to scuttle talks. However Pompeo is blaming it on Iran - and by that he means the national leadership. I think we need to understand that leap because they'll need a whole lot more than a grainy video if they want to lead us into another idiotic war.

Grifman wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:01 am and the purpose is to show that they can interdict the flow of oil to the rest of the world, and because of that they shouldn’t be messed with. I’ll also note that Iran has publicly threatened to do this in the past when they have felt threatened.

Now we know there's an alarmingly high number of young people roaming around in your country with nothing to do but stir up trouble for the police and damage private property. It doesn't look like they'll ever get a job.

It's about time we did something constructive with these people. We've got thousands of 'em here too. They're crawling all over.

The companies think it's time we all sit down, have a serious get-together - and start another war.

The President? He loves the idea! All those missiles streaming overhead to and fro! Napalm! People running down the road, skin on fire! The Soviets seem up for it: The Kremlin's been itching for the real thing for years. Hell, Afghanistan's no fun.

So, whadya say? We don't even have to win this war. We just want to cut down on some of this excess population!

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:13 pm

Grifman wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:01 am and the purpose is to show that they can interdict the flow of oil to the rest of the world, and because of that they shouldn’t be messed with. I’ll also note that Iran has publicly threatened to do this in the past when they have felt threatened.

They have disavowed the attacks, which is a strange way to publicly threaten people. That said, they (should) know the relevant players will figure it out whatever their public face, so it could still be them.

Inviting a foreign leader to repair relationship damage then blowing holes in one of their tankers is a very drumpfian thing to do. I don't know Iran's leadership well enough to know if this is a (not so) veiled threat for Japan, but it seems stupid and shortsighted (which doesn't make it impossible).

Without more information I'd be grasping at straws, but malchior's suggestion of an Iranian faction is plausible to me.

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:39 pm My money is on Canada.

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:13 pm

Grifman wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:01 am and the purpose is to show that they can interdict the flow of oil to the rest of the world, and because of that they shouldn’t be messed with. I’ll also note that Iran has publicly threatened to do this in the past when they have felt threatened.

They have disavowed the attacks, which is a strange way to publicly threaten people. That said, they (should) know the relevant players will figure it out whatever their public face, so it could still be them.

Inviting a foreign leader to repair relationship damage then blowing holes in one of their tankers is a very drumpfian thing to do. I don't know Iran's leadership well enough to know if this is a (not so) veiled threat for Japan, but it seems stupid and shortsighted (which doesn't make it impossible).

Without more information I'd be grasping at straws, but malchior's suggestion of an Iranian faction is plausible to me.

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:46 pm Have they checked the site for bone saws?

A US military surveillance drone has been shot down by Iranian forces while flying over the Strait of Hormuz.

Iran's Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) said the drone had violated Iranian airspace. But US military said it had been over international waters.

The IRGC said its air force shot down a US "spy" drone in the early hours of Thursday after the unmanned aircraft violated Iranian airspace near Kuhmobarak in the southern province of Hormozgan.

The drone was identified by the IRGC as a RQ-4 Global Hawk, but the US military official told Reuters news agency the drone was a US Navy MQ-4C Triton, a maritime patrol and reconnaissance aircraft based on the RQ-4B Global Hawk.

Max Peck wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:20 am Strait of Hormuz: US confirms drone was shot down by Iranian missile

A US military surveillance drone has been shot down by Iranian forces while flying over the Strait of Hormuz.

Iran's Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) said the drone had violated Iranian airspace. But US military said it had been over international waters.

The IRGC said its air force shot down a US "spy" drone in the early hours of Thursday after the unmanned aircraft violated Iranian airspace near Kuhmobarak in the southern province of Hormozgan.

The drone was identified by the IRGC as a RQ-4 Global Hawk, but the US military official told Reuters news agency the drone was a US Navy MQ-4C Triton, a maritime patrol and reconnaissance aircraft based on the RQ-4B Global Hawk.

Octavious wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:46 am Freaking Iran is going to get this shithead reelected if they give us a good reason to actually start a war. Shooting down a drone?

Ceiling: 60,000 feet (18,288 meters)

The S-75 (Russian: С-75; NATO reporting name SA-2 Guideline) is a Soviet-designed, high-altitude air defence system, built around a surface-to-air missile with command guidance. Following its first deployment in 1957 it became one of the most widely deployed air defence systems in history.
...
It has also been locally produced in the People's Republic of China under the names HQ-1 and HQ-2.
...
Flight altitude 25,000 m (82,000 ft)

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:16 pm If you want to goad Trump into doing something, tell him he can't.

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:16 pm If you want to goad Trump into doing something, tell him he can't.

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:57 pm Word on the street is that Trump now suspects he's being manipulated by John Bolton into things that have nothing to do with TrumpCo cashflow.

This will not stand!

EDIT: Oh, and this...

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:57 pm I'm sure the shoot-down was traumatic for the drone pilot. He's probably just now recovering from his hangover.

I really hope we're not going to war to avenge an expensive appliance.

Exodor wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:00 am Trump ordered an attack on Iran, then changed his mind.

WTF

Drazzil wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:24 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:57 pm Word on the street is that Trump now suspects he's being manipulated by John Bolton into things that have nothing to do with TrumpCo cashflow.

This will not stand!

EDIT: Oh, and this...

I hate Trump as much as the next guy, but it seems to me that when Trump was talking tough on Iran, he was being led to war by the neo cons, but now that he's backing off he's being called a spineless weakling.

Which is it? I think Trump is a corrupt, lying dumpster fire of a President and I really don't want to defend him and I would love to hate him for this too... But isin't NOT going to war a good thing?

Holman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:16 am

Drazzil wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:24 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:57 pm Word on the street is that Trump now suspects he's being manipulated by John Bolton into things that have nothing to do with TrumpCo cashflow.

This will not stand!

EDIT: Oh, and this...

I hate Trump as much as the next guy, but it seems to me that when Trump was talking tough on Iran, he was being led to war by the neo cons, but now that he's backing off he's being called a spineless weakling.

Which is it? I think Trump is a corrupt, lying dumpster fire of a President and I really don't want to defend him and I would love to hate him for this too... But isin't NOT going to war a good thing?

Not going to war is good. I'd never call him spineless. I'd call him erratic, unreliable, and dangerous.

Posturing and sending every signal that you are going to war without a truly good reason--including ordering an attack before calling it off--and then suddenly shifting course is better than actually going to war but worse than doing none of this at all.