the inevitable repeal of the abolishment of [seasonal time shifting]

[pr0ner]

The Senate just unanimously passed a resolution to shift to full time DST in the US.

I am sure that people will be just thrilled about the prospects of 830-9 AM sunrises in the winter in mid-latitude states in the US.

That's a perk, not a negative. I would also like to suggest we just all go to GMT and simplify meeting requests enormously. I couldn't care less if I was getting up at 12am and going to bed at 4pm if it meant I didn't have to wonder what time it was in India.

Psychologically? Maybe a perk. Biologically? Maybe not a perk.

[Max Peck]

This article makes an argument for just sticking with standard time all year instead of permanent daylight saving time (which is my intuitive preference).

Daylight Saving Is a Trap

When people say they like the time change, what they really mean is that they like summer.

This week, the “Sunshine Protection Act” passed the Senate. The bill, which would make daylight saving time permanent, is popular with the public; people hate switching their clocks back and forth. And who doesn’t like sunlight?

But daylight saving time isn’t good for us. It’s an artificial jump forward from standard time, which is more aligned with the path of the sun. (At noon during standard time, the sun is actually at its highest point in the sky.) Our bodies evolved, over millions of years, to be exquisitely attuned to the sun’s rhythm. When we wake and see sunlight in the morning, it trips off a cascade of chemicals in our brains that coordinate mental and physical health. Morning sunlight (even through the clouds on a winter day) is vital.

[disarm]

This article makes an argument for just sticking with standard time all year instead of permanent daylight saving time (which is my intuitive preference).

Daylight Saving Is a Trap

When people say they like the time change, what they really mean is that they like summer.

This week, the “Sunshine Protection Act” passed the Senate. The bill, which would make daylight saving time permanent, is popular with the public; people hate switching their clocks back and forth. And who doesn’t like sunlight?

But daylight saving time isn’t good for us. It’s an artificial jump forward from standard time, which is more aligned with the path of the sun. (At noon during standard time, the sun is actually at its highest point in the sky.) Our bodies evolved, over millions of years, to be exquisitely attuned to the sun’s rhythm. When we wake and see sunlight in the morning, it trips off a cascade of chemicals in our brains that coordinate mental and physical health. Morning sunlight (even through the clouds on a winter day) is vital.

Written from the perspective of someone who probably actually gets to see the early morning sun. Some of us in the northeast go to work before sunrise and work until after the sun disappears at 4pm during the winter. Sun in the morning only matters if you have the chance to see it. Set the clocks to make it dark before the end of a work day, and you're dooming a whole group of people to seasonal affective discorder because they rarely see the sun and can go months with minimal time to be enjoy the outdoors after work.

The problem affects people both ways, and that's why they've never been willing to make a change.

[Isgrimnur]

[Carpet_pissr]

Define "reasonable"!

Also, for those of you (myself included) that freak out about 5pm sunsets, never EVER move to say...the Nordic countries, or I guess anywhere near that parallel. It's literally one of the main reasons I didn't move to Stockholm for a few years when I had the chance. Weak sun, and sun setting at 3pm?!? AUUUUGHHHHH. I would go insane. Hell, it made me feel horrible just being there a week or two at a time with that sunset situation. Other than THAT, amazing countries!

[Isgrimnur]

That's what the parentheticals do.

[Carpet_pissr]

That's what the parentheticals do.

Ah so. I guess anytime I see "reasonable" or similar word in a graph with data and stuff, my brain's spidey sense starts to tingle.

[Blackhawk]

This article makes an argument for just sticking with standard time all year instead of permanent daylight saving time (which is my intuitive preference).

Daylight Saving Is a Trap

[snip]Our bodies evolved, over millions of years, to be exquisitely attuned to the sun’s rhythm. When we wake and see sunlight in the morning, it trips off a cascade of chemicals in our brains that coordinate mental and physical health. Morning sunlight (even through the clouds on a winter day) is vital.

We broke that rhythm when we invented the electric light and the alarm clock. FWIW, for most of history, we likely didn't sleep for eight hours straight, either. We'd sleep, wake up and do stuff for an hour or two, then sleep again.

Our bodies' natural cycles are so broken that it would take months or years of active effort to fix them.

[Isgrimnur]

Harvard

By recording the daily rhythms of hormones and body temperatures in 24 healthy young and old men and women over a one-month period, the researchers
conclude that our internal clocks run on a daily cycle of 24 hours, 11 minutes.

[Octavious]

I much prefer late sunset. It being dark when I leave for work doesn't bother me. I get SUPER depressed every year when the sun is going down before I leave work.

[Max Peck]

Two tours in the Arctic when I was in the Forces made me realize that I don't much care about daylight vs night time. I've lived and worked during periods of 24-hour daylight and 24-hour darkness and it never bothered me one way or the other.

The provincial government here has said they will switch to permanent DST if certain other provinces and states do so first, so if this actually happens we may end up following suit.

[YellowKing]

Since when have Americans taken health factors into account when deciding to do anything? Full speed ahead!

[Unagi]

I think humans would adjust to living 1-hour off-set from true-noon just fine. That argument for a true-noon sounds a little forced to me.

Also, waking up in the dark is soon addressed by the sunrise, so I don't see that as being so horrible. And it can be an uplifting moment and a great way to start a day (seeing that sun actually rise).


But the real thing I came here to talk about is IT, and how much switching times totally fucks up nightly IT schedules. In a previous life, at the company I worked for, I was in charge of nightly data extractions, translation, and loads (ETL) into other systems. Mostly transactional data, and some of it financial. We had a ton of shit to do each night, and our window to do things was tight as shit. Some software has become a little more sophisticated on this front, but when you had offices all over the country collecting bills / transactional data from thousands of clients spread out everywhere, this one-hour time shift just threw so many monkey wrenches into so many things. You could have unsophisticated schedules re-fire their 1:30 am jobs twice when clocks fall back - and clearly, when clocks jumped forward - the unsophisticated scheduling would just blow off that 1:30 am job. And that was just the complications of logistics and jobs and timing. Then there became this completely stupid (to me, not to 'them') financial issue where they did these dashboards with "daily" totals - and holy fuck how this one-hour time-shit wreaked havoc on their solution to those dashboards (I was mercifully not involved with it too much, but I had to work with them endlessly to untangle their data mess). They needed to have a 'corporate' clock based at HQ's time in Chicago - but then needed to actually care about when a client paid based on their local time, etc... it was a mess.

1:00 - 3:00 am may be a great time to hide the annoyance to most people, but we are in a 24-hour world now, and this hour time-shift is a fucking pain.

[Max Peck]

It's not clear to me that there is ever going to be one overall best solution that doesn't screw over some portion of the population, short of allowing individuals to adjust their schedules to suit their own best interests instead of being slaves to the clock. I worked flex hours before becoming a professional slacker, so I had the option to adapt my routine to fit my preferences for morning/evening light, and many of my coworkers did exactly that. I didn't care so I just gave myself a 10-hour day, worked 4 days a week and enjoyed a long weekend every week. On average, I got enough sunlight to keep myself happy.

[Isgrimnur]

[YellowKing]

Instead of screwing over all of the people all of the time, I'm in favor of screwing over some of the people all of the time.

[Jeff V]

Also, waking up in the dark is soon addressed by the sunrise, so I don't see that as being so horrible.

It's not waking up in the dark. It's the kids walking to school in the dark, because without the time change, some parts of the country won't see daylight until 9 am during the winter.

[Blackhawk]

That... wouldn't bother me, either when I was a kid or as a parent. If it happens, reflective vests for morning walkers will be a thing.

I'm not sure that there is any real, significant risks to kids being outside in the dark.

[Baroquen]

I'm not a fan of driving to work in the dark each morning. The varying sunset time doesn't bother me either way.

Personally, based on the maps I've seen for my area, I'd go Standard time, all the time. But that's just me.

[Unagi]

Also, waking up in the dark is soon addressed by the sunrise, so I don't see that as being so horrible.

It's not waking up in the dark. It's the kids walking to school in the dark, because without the time change, some parts of the country won't see daylight until 9 am during the winter.

My kid walked home from school in the dark this winter.

[Jeff V]

My kid walked home from school in the dark this winter.

I'm guessing they aren't very little? My second grade son did a little bit because he's in an after school game club program, otherwise, normal quittin' time is 3:30 and unless he's walking 20 miles up hill each way, normally they shouldn't be walking after dark.

But when it comes to time zone extremes, Chicago is nowhere near as bad as some has it.

[Blackhawk]

My kid walked home from school in the dark this winter.

I'm guessing they aren't very little? My second grade son did a little bit because he's in an after school game club program, otherwise, normal quittin' time is 3:30 and unless he's walking 20 miles up hill each way, normally they shouldn't be walking after dark.

Not picking on you, but I'm genuinely curious: why? Do you see extra risk from it that couldn't be mitigated with a reflective (and maybe even light-up) vest?

[Jeff V]

My kid walked home from school in the dark this winter.

I'm guessing they aren't very little? My second grade son did a little bit because he's in an after school game club program, otherwise, normal quittin' time is 3:30 and unless he's walking 20 miles up hill each way, normally they shouldn't be walking after dark.

Not picking on you, but I'm genuinely curious: why? Do you see extra risk from it that couldn't be mitigated with a reflective (and maybe even light-up) vest?

In some neighborhoods, that would be akin to wearing a target with a blinking neon light that says "shoot me."

[Unagi]

My kid walked home from school in the dark this winter.

I'm guessing they aren't very little? My second grade son did a little bit because he's in an after school game club program, otherwise, normal quittin' time is 3:30 and unless he's walking 20 miles up hill each way, normally they shouldn't be walking after dark.

Not picking on you, but I'm genuinely curious: why? Do you see extra risk from it that couldn't be mitigated with a reflective (and maybe even light-up) vest?

In some neighborhoods, that would be akin to wearing a target with a blinking neon light that says "shoot me."

So then you are arguing that walking home in the dark is a big plus.

Pick a side, would ya?

[Jeff V]

??? You think I'm advocating shooting kids?

[hitbyambulance]

boondoggle in the making!

https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/lo ... g-forward/

[Isgrimnur]

Remember to set your clocks back an hour tonight.

[Jaymann]

I let Gates and Nerd Jesus take care of that for me. BTW who is that idiot in the It's Happening meme?

[Kraken]

Looks to me like Ron Paul (Rand's dad).

I've already reset the six clocks in our house that need resetting. Seasonal depression incoming.

[hitbyambulance]

o hay

[Kraken]

Yep, clocks reset again. Seasonal depression lifting right on schedule.

The rumbling about making DST permanent is louder this year. That would suit me fine, but my friends at the western edge of our time zone beg to differ.

[Isgrimnur]

They can always shift to Central. I think it'd be funny as hell if the UP went Central.

[Jaymon]

How many years we been griping about this? I still have the same position on the matter. I don't care what time it ends up being, as long as the clocks stop changing.

[TheMix]

How many years we been griping about this? I still have the same position on the matter. I don't care what time it ends up being, as long as the clocks stop changing.

[dbt1949]

I still haven't changed all the clocks.

[TheMix]

I usually don't even bother changing the clocks in my vehicles.

[pr0ner]

I usually don't even bother changing the clocks in my vehicles.

My car changes time automatically.

[Jeff V]

I usually don't even bother changing the clocks in my vehicles.

My car changes time automatically.

I thought mine would have...maybe it will now that I enabled DST. My wife (who has a newer model Toyota) called me today to ask how to change it...I guess she figured it out.

I thought Congress had squashed DST, but it seems only the Senate approved, the house did not. And I was telling people it was done with. Oops. Anyway, I do appreciate having daylight longer in the evenings, I don't like driving at night as it is, and getting paid to do so doesn't appreciably change that fact.

[dbt1949]

I still have at least one more clock to set. Maybe more.

[Kraken]

As with so many questions, Americans divide more-or-less 50/50 on preferring DST or Standard Time (aka Daylight Wasting Time). But a large majority want to stop the shifting. So it won't happen.

Some New England states have floated the idea of joining the Atlantic time zone (an hour earlier). I can see that gaining traction if DWT ever becomes standard.