Warlords III: Darklords Rising just released...

[El Guapo]

Turn completed and sent on. And my hero didn't die, so feeling good about myself.

Feeling so smug, eh?

So...how do I go about generating money to make sure that I can hire the next hero who comes along? I assume prudent fiscal and monetary policy along with a mostly free but appropriately regulated economy?

[Pyperkub]

Pillaging and sacking and cities generate gold. Note that pillaging and sacking does make cities weaker at defending.

I think that heroes will be cheaper if you don't have any.

[Archinerd]

The turn is sitting in my email, taunting me.
I'll get to it this evening.

[El Guapo]

Quick tactical note - pretty much always pillage. You destroy whatever production the city could make that you can't make (it's not on your main army list - mercs and allies do not count, only your main 8 army units), and get something like 1/2 the value in gold. Only sack if you really need to - sack destroys all production, including things you could have produced (things in your main army list). Depending on what's there, you may not see a gold difference (and this may be common - if no one else has the troops you have). Since 2 of you have a clone of my army, we may not be pillaging each other much...

Can you tell before you attack a city what it can produce that's on your list? Presumably that would factor into whether to capture / sack / pillage a city, right?

[NickAragua]

That'd be good to know. I captured some random neutral city and it's got absolutely zero units it can build for me. Should have just razed it to the ground.

[Pyperkub]

Quick tactical note - pretty much always pillage. You destroy whatever production the city could make that you can't make (it's not on your main army list - mercs and allies do not count, only your main 8 army units), and get something like 1/2 the value in gold. Only sack if you really need to - sack destroys all production, including things you could have produced (things in your main army list). Depending on what's there, you may not see a gold difference (and this may be common - if no one else has the troops you have). Since 2 of you have a clone of my army, we may not be pillaging each other much...

Can you tell before you attack a city what it can produce that's on your list? Presumably that would factor into whether to capture / sack / pillage a city, right?

None that I can recall, save for what you had to fight to take the city in the first place.

[El Guapo]

I guess I'm going to default to pillaging cities like Zenn7 suggests, unless they either produce multiple units that I can use (going by who the defenders are), OR there is zero in common (in which case I will consider razing).

Do the (non-razed) cities produce gold over time?

[Pyperkub]

I guess I'm going to default to pillaging cities like Zenn7 suggests, unless they either produce multiple units that I can use (going by who the defenders are), OR there is zero in common (in which case I will consider razing).

Do the (non-razed) cities produce gold over time?

Yes, also give better defenses to defenders if they aren't pillaged. Cities can also be re-upgraded for gold for better defenses. Also, you can only get higher-level quests from higher level cities. Note that if you have a quest to capture a city, it must be Occupied to complete the quest successfully - if you Pillage or Raze when the quest is to Occupy, you'll fail the quest (there will be a notice on the option you must choose for your quest).

[Zenn7]

I guess I'm going to default to pillaging cities like Zenn7 suggests, unless they either produce multiple units that I can use (going by who the defenders are), OR there is zero in common (in which case I will consider razing).

Do the (non-razed) cities produce gold over time?

Yes, also give better defenses to defenders if they aren't pillaged. Cities can also be re-upgraded for gold for better defenses. Also, you can only get higher-level quests from higher level cities. Note that if you have a quest to capture a city, it must be Occupied to complete the quest successfully - if you Pillage or Raze when the quest is to Occupy, you'll fail the quest (there will be a notice on the option you must choose for your quest).

Note - all my comments are based on the 2 games I have played (still finishing the second 1) since rebuying (can't remember anything significant from when I played it years ago).

You cannot tell before you attack, whether there are units produced you can use.

AFTER you win the fight though, when you choose to pillage or sack - if pillage and sack are the same amount, there is nothing there you can produce. If they are different amount, there is something there you can produce. The amount you get to pillage is 1/2 the price to buy production of that unit. IE - costs 10 Gold to buy Giant Rat production. Pillage/sack will get 5 Gold.

Cities produce gold over time (clicking or maybe right clicking on a city will tell you how much). Some produce mana as well (you will see that when you click/right click on the city too). Don't know if any produce more than 1, but not all cities produce 1.

200/600 gold to upgrade a city. Basic level provides +1 fortification bonus, each higher level increases that by +1 (+2/+3 respectively). This does not stack with any fortification bonus your units might provide. Just the highest bonus applies. As someone mentioned, you can only get higher quests from better cities (L1 - simple, L2 - average, L3 - hard).

800 gold can rebuild a razed city. You do NOT get money for razing a city. Depending on how the game is set up, you may have to raze the city when it's conquered, or you might be able to raze it any time (you have to have a unit there to raze/rebuild cities).

Sites can be razed/rebuilt as well (had a quest to raze a port).

On the subject of mana generation - cities generate white or black mana. We are grey mana - we can use either. A magic item you will find sometimes is mana crystals (1 or more, find 8 in my first test game after buying this for 1 explored site). Mana crystals not only give you 1 point of mana income per crystal/round, they also increase your max mana. I have 51 max in my current game (started with 32 - 19 mana crystals).

Some spells have mana upkeep - none of the summon unit spells (they cost gold upkeep). Most of the buff spells do though. You don't tend to get high mana income. I have more than 20 cities, 19 mana crystals and still only an income of 27 total in my current game.

Items go with heroes. They die, the stuff falls on the ground and any hero who goes there can pick the stuff up.

You can build production in a city. You'll notice there are 4 squares for what can be produced and your starting city has all 4 filled. If you click on the city, there should be a hammer icon to buy production. You can buy whatever you want/can afford. Common sense - especially in the beginning, don't buy your big units that take 4 turns to produce, even if you have the money. You want your strongest 1 turn units you can afford most likely (though you may want a scout or two first if your starting city didn't have your scout unit as one of the starting units).

If all 4 of your production slots are full and you want to produce something that is not currently an option, you can replace one (don't think you get any credit for the one that goes away though). Not an issue early on most likely, but later in the game, you might find this to be necessary.

Income:
- you get money from cities (from the few I recall, it's 20-30 on average, not sure, but do not believe upgrading increases income). Razed cities generate 0 income. A port site (and maybe another site) increase the income of the city they are associated with (automatic, you don't even have to see it to get it).
- defeating enemies - you get money looting any city you conquer (this is not the pillage/sack, this is just a small amount of money). Think you do for killing in the open too, but not sure.
- exploring sites - there are ruins/caves/towers/etc on the map that you can explore - they will give you a reward, that can be money. Or, you could find a sage who will give you a choice of 3 rewards - one of which is usually a gem worth gold.
- quests - gold is sometimes a reward option from quests
- exploring sites and quests will give you the most gold (they can give 800-1300 from the couple I recall).
- some heroes get income abilities (thieves do, thought there was another, I do not believe any of our casters get that ability)

Expenses:
Hiring heroes (plan on 1000-1300 from what I recall)
Upkeep on units - costs nothing but time to recruit/build a unit - but all units have upkeep!
Buy production - add the option to build a specific unit to a city
Build a city - on a razed city, you can rebuild it
Upgrade a city - 3 levels - 1 is start/default, 2/3 are upgrades (see above)
Hire mercenaries - sometimes, mercs (from your 3 unit list of mercenaries on your custom army set up) will offer to join you.
Buy items - had a merchant show up, exactly once so far, to offer me a magic item.

Exploring sites - you encounter an X - I don't remember from when I used to own the game, but in nearly 2 full games now, I have yet to lose the encounter no matter what I encountered or what my level was.

Note on combat - this is in the manual, but combat is a random number added to the 2 units strengths that are fighting. You can change the random number range when the game is set up. Default is 20, range is 18-26. Lower favors quality units (higher strength), higher favors quantity units (if the random # range is 1-20, and your strength is 1 and mine is 9 - 8 out of 20 numbers either of us can roll are automatic loss for you; if the random # range is 1-26, you str 1, me str 9 - 8 of 26 numbers either of us can roll are automatic loss for you - 6 more chances of numbers you can win on).

If I missed any questions, or anything else you want to know, ask me or look in the manual - especially if you want to know more about what units have what abilities, what spells do/you can get, quests/rewards, the combat - that is all explained in the appendices - most in nice, simple charts or lists.

[Pyperkub]

Regular armies - not just allies/mercs/summoned also have an upkeep cost (gold). I think it's half what the cost to produce them would be, per turn, so bigger/tougher units have higher upkeep. It usually doesn't matter much, unless you start losing a bunch of cities, then you may wish to start disbanding unused armies to keep your most valuable armies intact. Check the gold report (I think that's what it's called).

[Zenn7]

Regular armies - not just allies/mercs/summoned also have an upkeep cost (gold). I think it's half what the cost to produce them would be, per turn, so bigger/tougher units have higher upkeep. It usually doesn't matter much, unless you start losing a bunch of cities, then you may wish to start disbanding unused armies to keep your most valuable armies intact. Check the gold report (I think that's what it's called).

All armies cost upkeep - regular, mercs, allies, summoned, even the skeletons you get for free with necromancy. Not nearly 1/2 the cost to build though! No cost to recruit, only "build cost" is buying the production in each city you want to produce said unit in.

I now Giant Rats cost 1 upkeep. More powerful units cost upwards of 8-9 that I recall.

Losing cities can run you out of cash. Auto-build with auto-defend - so you forget your are building something in those early cities 30 turns into the game, and suddenly you have an army of 100's of units will put you in a deficit state as well. Summoning lots of units (Summoner - "demonic horde" and Necromancer "Lifes bane" summon 8-20 units) can also rapidly run up your upkeep bill out of control. Just some examples from my 2 games (summoning 20 demons 3-4 turns in a row will run your upkeep bill up FAST).

Edit: Oh, you can click on gold and mana (your totals) to see total income/upkeep (outflow for mana).
Gold report I think just shows how much you have versus anyone else in a graph.

Also - disbanding doesn't give you money, so if you have some you can hit an enemy (even if it's a suicide attack), you will likely find that more useful (I have been able to do that to bring costs down; so far, haven't had to disband anything).

[Dave Allen]

So, are we playing 4v4,or king of the items?

The winner must collect all eight Powerful Magic Items and have them held by one hero for one turn.
Heroes carrying these magic items have a wavy flag appearing below their “Stack Number”.

I was surprised. The "About Scenario" screen (in-game) says how many cities, ruins, sites, and sides, but it doesn't say anything about the primary objective.

Looks like Ralph hit the Pot O'Gold on his first turn.
Turn 2 sent.

[Pyperkub]

Turn 2 sent (zipped) to Nick!

[NickAragua]

So apparently you can get useless-looking cities to produce units once you capture them. Just pay X to set up production lines and you're good to go.

[Zenn7]

Other than forgetting to get a quest, great first turn, captured 2 cities.

Turn 2, remembered to get a quest! Couldn't reach a single thing so all I did was reveal a little of the map.

Ralph - Turn 2 sent to you.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

I haven’t found any nearby cities yet. /cry

Is there a list of what each item on the map looks like? I (finally) got a quest that asks me to go to a nearby stable, but I don’t know if the building a bit away from my city is a stable or something else. Don’t want to waste a full turn of my hero walking over there if it’s pointless.

[Pyperkub]

Right click on what you can see of the building and it should tell you what it is.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Ah thanks. Maybe that wasn't working when I tried since I had my giant rat covering it up.

[El Guapo]

Other than getting my hero killed and thereby neutering my ability to do quests, things seem to be going well so far.

Also - looks like there's no fog of war, beyond the initial obscuring of the map? E.g., after I reveal a part of the map, I assume that I would see any of your heroes / armies that subsequently wander around on those parts of the map?

[Dave Allen]

Is there a list of what each item on the map looks like? I (finally) got a quest that asks me to go to a nearby stable, but I don’t know if the building a bit away from my city is a stable or something else. Don’t want to waste a full turn of my hero walking over there if it’s pointless.

STABLE:

Also - looks like there's no fog of war, beyond the initial obscuring of the map? E.g., after I reveal a part of the map, I assume that I would see any of your heroes / armies that subsequently wander around on those parts of the map?

Yes and maybe.
Heroes can have the power to become invisible.

Sent turn 3.

[Zenn7]

Who's turn is up?

My last was sending turn 2 to Ralph.

[Archinerd]

I sent the turn to Dave last night.

[Pyperkub]

Sent 3 to nick last night.

[Pyperkub]

Sent 3 to nick last night.

NickAragua - did you get the turn I sent Tuesday evening?

[NickAragua]

Think I sent it on to El Guapo last night.

[El Guapo]

Yeah, I sent my turn onto Zenn7 this morning.

Also, do towns ever "revolt"? On my turn one of my captured towns had left my control, and looked like it was neutral again. I didn't have any units in it, so did it revolt? Did some neutral 'wandering monster' wander in? Was it in fact another player and I missed that?

[Zenn7]

Yeah, I sent my turn onto Zenn7 this morning.

Also, do towns ever "revolt"? On my turn one of my captured towns had left my control, and looked like it was neutral again. I didn't have any units in it, so did it revolt? Did some neutral 'wandering monster' wander in? Was it in fact another player and I missed that?

Just got home from another rousing day in the office
I will get the next turn off to Ralph shortly.

Towns do not revolt and there are no neutral monsters. Your town would have been taken out by another player. You should be able to reload the turn again and look (not going to hurt anything to just see what happened; I suppose you could cheat a little by moving your troops differently over and over and exploring everything you can reach in one turn, but I'm assuming none of us are that desperate to win or willing to cheat). Since there is no fog of war, you should see the town is now under another player's color (look at the flag/player list and see who's it is). The little circle at the top center top might be flashing as well, telling you there were 1 (or more) fights. The circle at the bottom center should be flashing as well, telling you a diplomatic state has changed (we all start at peace, for one of us to take your town, we'd have to declare war).

[Zenn7]

Turn sent to Ralph.

Looking at the diplomatic report, the Palytarians (misspelled undoubtedly - white shield with blue dragon like thing) are at war with Evil Maximus.

[Pyperkub]

Yeah, my bat wandered along and found a city with no defenders.

Thanks for the donation! It's for a good cause... Mine.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Turn passed on!

[Zenn7]

Yeah, my bat wandered along and found a city with no defenders.

Thanks for the donation! It's for a good cause... Mine.

Lesson - do not leave cities undefended or someone will take it from you. If you are playing with the AI, they do the same thing (I thought if I wasn't at war with anyone, they probably wouldn't declare war for an undefended city early on - twice in one game has taught that is not a correct thought).

[El Guapo]

Yeah, my bat wandered along and found a city with no defenders.

Thanks for the donation! It's for a good cause... Mine.

Lesson - do not leave cities undefended or someone will take it from you. If you are playing with the AI, they do the same thing (I thought if I wasn't at war with anyone, they probably wouldn't declare war for an undefended city early on - twice in one game has taught that is not a correct thought).

On the other hand I got to pillage it twice. If you pillage an opponent's town, does that money come out of their treasury? If not, wouldn't there be an incentive for players to swap a town back and forth, pillaging it for money?

[Zenn7]

The money does not come out of their treasure when you pillage it.

They had to spend money to buy production in the town. When you pillage it, you destroy that production.

I spend 10 gold so I can build giant rats.
You capture the town, pillage it (because giant rats are not on your army list), you get 5 gold. The town can no longer produce giant rats.

If you don't spend money to build something there, when I capture it, there will be nothing to pillage. Likewise, if I don't spend more money to build something there, you would get no money capturing it back.

So it's a bad idea to put your expensive to build unit production in front line cities unless you have the forces there to protect the city.

[El Guapo]

Interesting. IIRC I got 119 gold pillaging the second time...suggests a non-trivial amount was immediately spent on production capacity?

[Pyperkub]

Yeah, you do get some of their good as I recall.

[Zenn7]

You get looting money for taking the city (before you select occupy/pillage/sack/raze). I do not know if that comes out of their money or not. Never attempted to track it, only having played solo prior to this game, not something I could easily check as I don't know how much gold the AI gets when they take my cities.

Seems reasonable though that it would work that way.

[Pyperkub]

t4 sent to Nick!

[Zenn7]

Turn 4 sent to Ralph.

I need to get to some cities!

[El Guapo]

I have a hero again. Hooray!

Current quest is to 'explore nearby ruins'. Any particular way to find them? Wander around nearby, I guess?

[Pyperkub]

I have a hero again. Hooray!

Current quest is to 'explore nearby ruins'. Any particular way to find them? Wander around nearby, I guess?

In the show quest dialog there's a line towards the quest destination.