That video is one of the strangest things I've ever seen. Worrying about the minutiae of a stock install - without any regard to what is actually happening or the practical impact to the average user - it's just weird. Who gives a shit how many processes are running. The absolute number is meaningless. It could be running 1 or a 1000 - simply knowing the number doesn't mean anything. At the moment he was looking at it, some amount of RAM was committed. So what? There are practical impacts to RAM usage, but the things that matter are what happens to the system as usage increases. Does caching more things in memory improve performance? I don't know. Just telling me that more things are cached, as if that is be default "bad" is a weird take.
The only practical thing he talked about before I turned it off because it was stupid was the issue of how much physical space on the disk that the OS takes up. And there was nothing there that was concerning, despite his attempts to make it sound like something weird is going on.
Stop letting old people review new things. That's the only solution to this. Your hair is graying? You're a dinosaur and no one cares about your opinions anymore. We really need to make this happen.
NOTE: I cannot install Windows 11, so the practical impacts are lost on me (although anything they do to make it appear more like MacOS is better in my book - so yay! for a centered taskbar). But enough with these old people bitching. Enough!
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 5:43 pm
by hitbyambulance
Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:33 pm
If rounded windows and a centralized start button weren't sufficient to persuade you into upgrading to Windows 11, here's another marvellous Windows 'improvement' you didn't know you needed…
i will not be opting for that. if there truly is no workaround, well, WiNE/Proton on Linux is 'good enough' for gaming (the only thing i 'need' Windows for) at this time and will only get better in the near future
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 5:46 pm
by infinitelurker
RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:48 pm
That video is one of the strangest things I've ever seen. Worrying about the minutiae of a stock install - without any regard to what is actually happening or the practical impact to the average user - it's just weird. Who gives a shit how many processes are running. The absolute number is meaningless. It could be running 1 or a 1000 - simply knowing the number doesn't mean anything. At the moment he was looking at it, some amount of RAM was committed. So what? There are practical impacts to RAM usage, but the things that matter are what happens to the system as usage increases. Does caching more things in memory improve performance? I don't know. Just telling me that more things are cached, as if that is be default "bad" is a weird take.
The only practical thing he talked about before I turned it off because it was stupid was the issue of how much physical space on the disk that the OS takes up. And there was nothing there that was concerning, despite his attempts to make it sound like something weird is going on.
Stop letting old people review new things. That's the only solution to this. Your hair is graying? You're a dinosaur and no one cares about your opinions anymore. We really need to make this happen.
NOTE: I cannot install Windows 11, so the practical impacts are lost on me (although anything they do to make it appear more like MacOS is better in my book - so yay! for a centered taskbar). But enough with these old people bitching. Enough!
You had me in agreement up until your 3rd paragraph that I bolded. WTH is that? Maybe you forgot a /sarcasm indicator? Age is nowhere near the correct metric for determining which people like to think they know something about something and like to pontificate about it even when they are wrong. I think the metric you're looking for is something like stupidity.
I've given up trying to help people that like to follow stuff like this. They'll shake a fist in the air and worry about anonymized telemetry or something else that some wanna-be-techy site has told them to be upset about so they'll follow dozens of steps (with zero idea of the impact of said steps), tweaking the registry here and there, disabling services, etc. etc. Then, when their computer doesn't seem to be working right they blame the OS company There is no shortage of this type of tin foil hat stuff being suggested and followed by people of ALL AGES.
It's click-bait 99% of the time, just don't watch or click it.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:25 pm
by RunningMn9
infinitelurker wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 5:46 pmYou had me in agreement up until your 3rd paragraph that I bolded. WTH is that? Maybe you forgot a /sarcasm indicator? Age is nowhere near the correct metric for determining which people like to think they know something about something and like to pontificate about it even when they are wrong. I think the metric you're looking for is something like stupidity.
I've given up trying to help people that like to follow stuff like this. They'll shake a fist in the air and worry about anonymized telemetry or something else that some wanna-be-techy site has told them to be upset about so they'll follow dozens of steps (with zero idea of the impact of said steps), tweaking the registry here and there, disabling services, etc. etc. Then, when their computer doesn't seem to be working right they blame the OS company There is no shortage of this type of tin foil hat stuff being suggested and followed by people of ALL AGES.
There's implied sarcasm, as I'm old, and I have long complained on these here boards about this phenomenon as the average board user has become old AF along with me.
It just annoys me when olds complain that new things aren't what they want. Of course they aren't - you're old. No one cares what you want any more. No one in the tech industry is making products for us anymore (except medical devices I guess). Rather than accepting that and learning to roll with change, they shake their fist at the sky and hearken back to a day when their Start button was on the left side of the screen dagnabbit - just like the Lord himself intended. It's a button. Wherever it is on the screen, click it. Oh, but when I click it, it's not a cascading list of applications anymore that looks like it was designed in 1994, it's a screen with icons of my apps!! Ok, so click those and start your application. And did you see that the new version of Windows starts out with THREE more processes running that I expected (even though I had no reason to expect any number in particular, and have no idea what those processes are doing, or whether they are helping me or harming me)???
It's madness!
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:59 pm
by Anonymous Bosch
RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:48 pmThat video is one of the strangest things I've ever seen.
Colour me impressed. Evidently, you've lived an awfully sheltered Internet existence.
RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:48 pmWorrying about the minutiae of a stock install - without any regard to what is actually happening or the practical impact to the average user - it's just weird. Who gives a shit how many processes are running.
A system admin who spends a fair amount of time and effort upon scripting, debloating, and optimizing various aspects of Windows performance for gaming, i.e. the creator of said video, and the Windows gamers in his audience that find his work useful. If that isn't you? Oh, well.
RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 4:48 pmYour hair is graying? You're a dinosaur and no one cares about your opinions anymore.
Indeed, because if only these poor antediluvian fossils possessed the oddly ungraying locks of an RM9, perhaps they'd grok the magnificent benefits of a mandatorily-required Microsoft Account.
gizmodo.com wrote:The OS will also require users to be connected to the internet during the setup process.
Microsoft will soon force Windows 11 Pro users to create a Microsoft account and be connected to the internet for the initial setup process. The new requirements mirror those for Windows 11 Home, which has required an internet connection and account since it launched in October of last year.
Once the changes go into place, Windows 11 will be the only major operating system to require an account to gain access to basic functions. Apple’s macOS allows you to create a local account during setup and Android will similarly get you to the home screen without sign-in. Even Chrome OS, a cloud-centric operating system, has a guest mode for basic browsing without an account.
“Similar to Windows 11 Home edition, Windows 11 Pro edition now requires internet connectivity during the initial device setup (OOBE) only,” Microsoft wrote in a Windows Insider blog post. “If you choose to setup [a] device for personal use, MSA will be required for setup as well.”
As Ars Technica notes, the rule shouldn’t impact those who already have a configured local account or those who use a custom username and password to log in to work PCs. Regardless, users are already infuriated, noting how the login condition will make it more difficult to donate or sell computers, image hundreds of systems (as is required at some companies), or set up a computer for someone else. It also gives Microsoft a method to gather more data on users.
“The most annoying part about this is as a PC repair shop owner my techs now have to get people’s M$ account info just to reset/reformat a computer now. Or we need the customer to come in and sign in, then we can finish the repair.” one Reddit user noted.
Scores of people on social media have threatened to use a different operating system or delay updating to Windows 11. Others are already thinking of workarounds.
“Always skip every other Windows version. Windows 10 is great, not upgrading anytime soon and not just because my computer is too old,” one wrote. “My desire to install Linux is growing every day,” another user said.
“I figured I’d eventually need to upgrade to Win11, someday. This makes me say never if the requirement actually occurs,” an Ars Technica reader wrote in the site’s comments section. “WTF is the point of “Pro” if a professional can’t make decisions about accounts and use it how they want. We’re paying for the ability to have more control after all!”
“Windows 11 Pro will soon force me to install Linux,” another quipped.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:58 pm
by RunningMn9
In a shocking twist, you disagree. Cool.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 10:25 pm
by Kraken
RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:25 pm
It just annoys me when olds complain that new things aren't what they want. Of course they aren't - you're old. No one cares what you want any more.
This is a complete derail. My radio told me that the wine industry is in trouble because millennials lump wine in with liquor, and don't buy it in sufficient numbers to replace the declining baby boomers. The industry is still advertising to boomers and doesn't know how to reach millennials and below.
The wine industry cares.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:19 pm
by RunningMn9
Kraken wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 10:25 pm
The wine industry cares.
A feather in your cap.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:20 pm
by RunningMn9
Also, I’ve been hearing “I’m going to install Linux instead” since 1992. No, you’re not. And they know that.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:38 pm
by Zaxxon
Folks who think MS makes these changes without a finger on the pulse of their actual user base are nuts.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:07 am
by Anonymous Bosch
RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:58 pm
In a shocking twist, you disagree. Cool.
Yes, I disagree with the notion of age or hair colour necessarily dictating one's choice to upgrade their operating system. But I'm completely indifferent about which OS you opt to run, and why you opt to run it. Realistically, I suspect most people -- regardless of their age and hair pigmentation -- upgrade their operating systems for new features, or because they specifically need to do something or use a new device their old OS does not support. I was simply echoing JCC's sentiments, that as things stand right now, there aren't many compelling reasons for Windows gamers to immediately rush into upgrading from Windows 10 to 11. That doesn't imply there are none whatsoever. Or that that won't change in future. Considering Microsoft plans to support Windows 10 until October 2025, there's plenty of time for them to fix, improve, and further optimize gaming performance in Windows 11.
RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:20 pm
Also, I’ve been hearing “I’m going to install Linux instead” since 1992. No, you’re not. And they know that.
Unless SteamDeck OS can run Epic, Oculus, Ubisoft Connect, Xbox Gamepass (and all the rest), plus any Windows app I'd need, it's irrelevant.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:37 pm
by naednek
NEW OS, same complaints. And guess what, everything turns out ok.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:41 pm
by Blackhawk
naednek wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:37 pm
NEW OS, same complaints. And guess what, everything turns out ok.
I don't think MS actively blocking use on the majority of computers is an old complaint. It's a brand new one, and one that primarily affects the poor and near-poor who can't afford brand new hardware.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:41 pm
by RunningMn9
Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:07 amRealistically, I suspect most people -- regardless of their age and hair pigmentation -- upgrade their operating systems for new features, or because they specifically need to do something or use a new device their old OS does not support.
Another characteristic of olds - the presumed belief that what they believe and how they behave is representative of the majority.
The vast majority of people - regardless of their age or hair pigmentation - upgrade their OS simply because they had to buy a new computer and that was the OS that was installed on it. Most people are primitive enough to understand (or believe) that 11 > 10, and so when buying a new computer, they buy one that says "11" instead of one that says "10". It's a passive decision.
Age and hair pigmentation do not affect one's liberty in deciding which OS to run. They affect one's perception as to whether something is "good" or not, because their needs can be fundamentally different than the needs of others. And once an industry starts creating and marketing to the needs of others, they turn into a crabby and disaffected lot that make videos for fellow olds to crab about how many processes are running at startup on a stock build, or how many bits of memory are in use when the system is idle - without any context for whether or not those things are actually bad (they could be, but the video ignores that and just focused on the fact that the numbers are different - and thus bad).
And that doesn't even get to the horrors of moving a "start" button (that they hated when they had to start using). Or that when pressing the start button, the screen showed icons instead of the rows of text that they desired in the inner depths of their souls.
They're just old, crabby people that don't like change, and we should stop listening to their nonsense when things change.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:44 pm
by RunningMn9
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:41 pmI don't think MS actively blocking use on the majority of computers is an old complaint. It's a brand new one, and one that primarily affects the poor and near-poor who can't afford brand new hardware.
That's definitely a new complaint. I have three PCs in the house, including a high-end Alienware laptop. I'm not allowed to run Windows 11. My reaction to that was simply "Oh well, I won't run Windows 11". If I could have run Windows 11, I would have installed it on day one (and managed to handle the moving of the start button). It wouldn't have been perfect (it never is). But I'm not going to live my life like I'm some kind of Smoove_B, worrying about whether or not I can skin an OS released in 2021 to make it look like Windows XP, because that's when my brain stopped being able to handle new things.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:54 pm
by Blackhawk
I have one PC that can run it (barely.) The rest in the house cannot. I have considered updating the one, but I don't want different PCs in the house running different versions of Windows. If it were a free upgrade to all of the PCs, I'd probably have given it a few months for the problems to be ironed out, then installed it. And no, I don't get people being so attached to an OS that they flip out over the start menu being different from XP. I've never gotten that.
Although I would likely install something to move the thing back into the corner.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:56 pm
by TheMix
Poor Smoove! What did he do to get pulled into this!
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:58 pm
by Smoove_B
As someone that has Win10 configured to look and feel like WinXP, I find it all amusing.
Whatever is happening in the background, I am oblivious, but I have to have my tools.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:01 pm
by RunningMn9
TheMix wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:56 pm
Poor Smoove! What did he do to get pulled into this!
naednek wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:37 pm
NEW OS, same complaints. And guess what, everything turns out ok.
It's a brand new one, and one that primarily affects the poor and near-poor who can't afford brand new hardware.
This is me right now. My main PC has 10 year old hardware. I have to replace everything, and because the price being what they are right now, it's going to be terribly expensive for me. Meanwhile, I've been having memory issues, and it's not as if I can just add more as I'm currently maxed out. Even if I could theoretically install 11 on this, I've already been experiencing memory limitations lately from an increase in overall ram usage, so I don't think that would go over too well.
Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:07 amRealistically, I suspect most people -- regardless of their age and hair pigmentation -- upgrade their operating systems for new features, or because they specifically need to do something or use a new device their old OS does not support.
Another characteristic of olds - the presumed belief that what they believe and how they behave is representative of the majority.
The vast majority of people - regardless of their age or hair pigmentation - upgrade their OS simply because they had to buy a new computer and that was the OS that was installed on it.
Alas, another characteristic of olds - the befuddlement and conflation of subtle contextual disparities. Such as the difference between describing the incentives, or lack thereof, for Windows gamers to specifically upgrade an older operating system to a newer version (i.e. what I was referring to) vs. purchasing brand new hardware and incidentally acquiring a preinstalled newer operating system in the process. Of course the vast majority of people end up with newer operating systems as a result of purchasing a new system, hence my tongue-in-cheek original remark to JCC:
Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:59 amIt wouldn't surprise me if the motivation for the creation of Windows 11 in the first place largely originated from OEM PC vendors eager for an incentive to drive sales. So, perhaps the point is mostly a contrivance to drive sales for OEM PC vendors. "Your sad old hardware does not allow you to easily upgrade to Windows 11? Discard that rubbish, and buy one of our shiny new PCs!"
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 3:30 pm
by Blackhawk
As one person once told me (paraphrasing), there's a difference between an elder and an elderly.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 3:32 pm
by Smoove_B
I think we all just need to continue to appreciate that Daehawk finally upgraded to Win10. I will be curious to see if being told you cannot upgrade to W11 will actually motivate people to figure out a way to do it - because there's a subset of people that hate being told they can't do something.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 3:35 pm
by Zaxxon
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 3:32 pm
I think we all just need to continue to appreciate that Daehawk finally upgraded to Win10. I will be curious to see if being told you cannot upgrade to W11 will actually motivate people to figure out a way to do it - because there's a subset of people that hate being told they can't do something.
It's not at all hard to do. Will be interesting to see how it plays out, tho.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:07 pm
by RunningMn9
AB, your comment was “most people”, not “most people within this much smaller element of this much smaller market segment that only I know that I’m talking about”.
My bad.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:54 pm
by Anonymous Bosch
RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 6:07 pm
AB, your comment was “most people”, not “most people within this much smaller element of this much smaller market segment that only I know that I’m talking about”.
My bad.
It's OK Methuselah, I empathise with your difficulty comprehending such subtle contextual clues as my having specifically described the notion of Windows gamers upgrading from Windows 10 to 11 in the very same paragraph that befuddled you so. Clearly, an old codger would interpret such imprecise language to mean the purchase of entirely new hardware vs. actually upgrading an older operating system to a newer version.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:07 pm
by RunningMn9
Cool.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:47 am
by JCC
So yesterday, I decided that I perhaps too quickly hacked W11 to look more like Win 10 and wanted to revert the taskbar changes so I could give the new look a try. Unfortunately, I had made so many registry hacks (or there was some other problem) that I just couldn't get the task bar to put things back in the center. So, to fix this I went ahead and got Win 11 to "reset" itself (without deleting my files). This took a lot longer than I expected but basically worked.
The one annoyance I have is if I run Chrome, the icon on the taskbar looks normal, but once I pin it to the taskbar it becomes one of the generic app icons. Google has failed me at finding a solution to this...
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:23 am
by LordMortis
1) I am the olds
RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:20 pm
Also, I’ve been hearing “I’m going to install Linux instead” since 1992. No, you’re not. And they know that.
2) Ditto. MS has been on its death bed collapsing of its own weight for over 20 years and yet somehow it keep growing
3) WRT registering Pro
“If you choose to setup [a] device for personal use, MSA will be required for setup as well.”
Doesn't 10 Pro already do this? You just click "Join a domain instead" and set up a local account with no MS registration. To me that sounds functionally the same.
Always skip every other Windows version.
Truth. 8, Vista, ME...
Rumpy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:33 pm
Meanwhile, I've been having memory issues, and it's not as if I can just add more as I'm currently maxed out.
Me too. I forget to bring my lunch to work at least once a week nowadays. I am the olds.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:03 pm
by Anonymous Bosch
JCC wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:47 am
So yesterday, I decided that I perhaps too quickly hacked W11 to look more like Win 10 and wanted to revert the taskbar changes so I could give the new look a try. Unfortunately, I had made so many registry hacks (or there was some other problem) that I just couldn't get the task bar to put things back in the center. So, to fix this I went ahead and got Win 11 to "reset" itself (without deleting my files). This took a lot longer than I expected but basically worked.
The one annoyance I have is if I run Chrome, the icon on the taskbar looks normal, but once I pin it to the taskbar it becomes one of the generic app icons. Google has failed me at finding a solution to this...
If you haven't yet done so, try using Task Manager to restart the Windows Explorer background process:
Type Task Manager in the start menu, and run the Task Manager app.
Scroll down, and locate Windows Explorer in the Windows processes section.
Select Windows Explorer, then hit the restart button at the bottom right.
If the pinned icon still does not work correctly after restarting your Windows Explorer background process, try manually specifying Chrome’s icon:
Right-click on the pinned icon, then right-click on the app name, and select Properties from the context menu.
In the Properties window, navigate to the Shortcut tab, and click on Change icon…
Click Browse… to manually locate and select your Google Chrome .exe file, typically found here if memory serves:
I had tried everything except the above. I unpinned chrome then I did the above and it didn't seem to work.
Then I did something odd. I brought up Edge and pinned it. Then I brought up chrome and pinned it and it finally worked. Not sure what the solution was, but it's working for now. Thanks!
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:05 pm
by Kraken
I usually upgrade when it's free just to stay with-it. But when MS told me my PC doesn't meet their standards I just shrugged. Win11 doesn't have anything compelling and 10 works just fine. I'll need new hardware by the time Win10 comes off support, but I'm happy with this PC.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:28 pm
by Jaymann
Windows 11 is even worse than you think:
When Microshaft stops supporting Windows 10, I will be seriously looking at alternative operating systems.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:03 pm
by RunningMn9
I tried watching the video. Between his use of “Linox” and when he finally wanted to complain about Apple’s walled (and protected) garden, I couldn’t take it anymore.
Apple’s restrictions are why iOS is a superior ecosystem, and why iOS devs actually make money.
I also thought it was absurd to lead in, bitching that he works on 13 year old computers. Windows 11 isn’t for those people.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:47 pm
by Jaymann
Yes, the video is flawed. But the concerns about W11 encrypting your PC are real.
Re: Windows 11
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:28 pm
by Victoria Raverna
Jaymann wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:47 pm
Yes, the video is flawed. But the concerns about W11 encrypting your PC are real.
You know that you can unencrypt it, right? It is not just W11. My HP W10 laptop that I bought three years ago also came encrypted but I can easily unencrypt it.
There is no shortage of this type of tin foil hat stuff being suggested and followed by people of ALL AGES. 
