Octopus Overlords

Maybe don't put their favorite keywords in 25-point font?

I haven't looked for a job since I first employed myself 17 years ago, and yet the occasional recruitment email makes it through my spam filter because I'm LinkedIn. Those think I want to work in retail, which I stopped doing three years ago but didn't scrub from LinkedIn. I can only imagine the flood of junk active job seekers must have to wade through.

I'm confused. Do you still have a job or was it the type you disliked and you turned them down?

dbt1949 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:41 pm I'm confused. Do you still have a job or was it the type you disliked and you turned them down?

Keeping my options open is never a bad move. If I got a 20 dollar an hour job just about anyone would understand backing out of a 16.50 job.

Kraken wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:36 pm Maybe don't put their favorite keywords in 25-point font?

This. So much this.

You’re getting nailed because an algo found key word matches in your info (resumes, profile, search history, et al). That’s it. The hounding you are getting is a result of those EXACT matches.

I doubt formatting comes into play, but it might. The algo probably only ‘sees’ “this guy keeps mentioning “caregiving” on all his stuff! Like, a LOT!!”

And MAYBE ‘sees’ “not only does this guy mention “caregiving” 18 times, he bolded it and put it in 50pt font!!! He must REALLY like “caregiving”!!!

Jeff V wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:58 pm

Kraken wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:12 pm Labor has never enjoyed such a seller's market.

This is a fallacy. The jobs are all those nobody wants to do. They are not jobs with an upside, no career path. They are washing dishes. Picking cotton. Stocking store shelves. These are not jobs with an upside...they prepare you for nothing. Many are jobs that undocumented workers used to take, but we've willfully expelled them.

Have to disagree that those jobs prepare you for nothing. These were some of my first jobs and they prepared me for a lot.

Jeff V wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:58 pm Anything resembling a professional job still has a shit ton of applicants for every job and it's competitive as hell. It is most certainly not a boon for labor.

I'm in a 30K+ employees system and throughout the organization were hearing that it's a labor market. From office staff up to MDs and senior execs. I was on an HR call this week where they were imploring managers to act on hiring decisions as soon as humanly possible because they're seeing candidates get snapped up very quickly, often a day or two after an interview.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:13 am

Jeff V wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:58 pm Anything resembling a professional job still has a shit ton of applicants for every job and it's competitive as hell. It is most certainly not a boon for labor.

I'm in a 30K+ employees system and throughout the organization were hearing that it's a labor market. From office staff up to MDs and senior execs. I was on an HR call this week where they were imploring managers to act on hiring decisions as soon as humanly possible because they're seeing candidates get snapped up very quickly, often a day or two after an interview.

It's the same for us. We have hundreds of six figure openings that we are looking to fill and not nearly so many qualified candidates. Unfortunately for the Jeff's of the world, infrastructure is a thing of the past. Amazon owns and manages it all for us.

I am finding jobs to apply for. The call-back rate with interviews is less than one in 20. There is plenty of infrastructure still out there, plus execs always need help upgrading their phones twice a year as well as supporting all of their non-standard gadgets, the workforce still needs to be upgraded, supported, and cleaned up after when they shit themselves, and there are a lot of environments, such as production plants (as would have been the case in the last opportunity). I'm pretty sure my #1 problem is that I'm old AF, and there's no real solution to that. My wife actually wanted me to die my hair before starting with video and in-person interview with that last company.

Medical has their own issues...when my wife last sent out resumes, she sent out six and got 5 offers...THE SAME DAY. She cannot sympathise with me. A lot of her coworkers just walked away from the profession -- it was not worth the risk, especially when a former coworker died of COVID leaving behind a 5 month old son.

The six interviews to nowhere is even rather outrageous for IT...I was hoping beyond a certain point that the remaining executive and director interviews were just a final blessing. Of those who mattered, there was 5 interviews with 4 people -- I asked each of the 4 what they expected from that role (and it was a new position, mind you). They all had different answers...but each one I had a long history of qualifications and experience.

As far as "qualified applicants", I was 6-figures, but do not have an IT degree and given the primitive state of IT when I was in college (punch cards, anyone?) the 30 years of real-world experience trumps anything paper would provide. I am ITIL certified, but I certified on version 2. They are up to 4. So companies are demanding 4. Do you know what the difference between 2 and 4 is? A couple of grand to take another test. ITIL processes are in large part a function of software used and corporate culture (companies can pick and choose, not every organization is the size of the British government). The concepts are all the same, and the implementation is a personal thing endemic to every company. So I don't have v4. But I know a fuck of a lot about ITIL, and was a PM for an implementation when I worked for a hospital.

Among the jobs I didn't get was one whose job description appeared to be crimped from my resume. I used that as the basis of my pitch when I interviewed with the hiring manager, only to be told "that's not what we're looking for at all!" It seems what they were actually looking for is a PM who would normally command $150K+ to build out a new distribution center then turn into a pumpkin (worker-bee drone) when that was complete. That job would have been a 20% paycut.

Another was in the medical field. I interviewed with the director -- who was a good 20 years younger than me. In the course of the interview, he enumerated problems they were having and lamenting they could never be solved. Except I encountered these problems before, and solved them. The president of that organization and the chairman of the board both recognized my accomplishments in this area. Not only did I not get hired, but a week later the job was re-posted.

Finally there was a job that involved splitting off one of my former employer's logistics facilities to a new owner. I knew everyone involved with this project, and have worked on such things many times (from both acquisition and divestiture) while at that former employer. They were looking for a technical person to replace the current project manager, who they deemed non-technical. I found out who that person was...and yes, she was non-technical. She was also several levels above me at my last job...not in my chain-of-command, but someone I maintained good relations with because my minions had to work closely with her minions. I was told by the recruiter that they suspended pursuit of a replacement for her, and I never heard another thing.

I get a lot of recruiters asking me about jobs located elsewhere in the country. I tell them it's only possible if the position is 100% remote. None have followed up saying it was so.

I'm now entering the territory where time out of work is going to be significant hinderance, even if nothing else interferes. If I have to take a paycut, then I need the job to meet me half-way and be WFH with some flexibility in hours. But I'm not seeing a lot of those jobs (and not getting call-backs when I do). They want butts in the office, but don't want to pay to make it attractive enough for people willing to do that.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:39 am

Kraken wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:36 pm Maybe don't put their favorite keywords in 25-point font?

This. So much this.

You’re getting nailed because an algo found key word matches in your info (resumes, profile, search history, et al). That’s it. The hounding you are getting is a result of those EXACT matches.

I doubt formatting comes into play, but it might. The algo probably only ‘sees’ “this guy keeps mentioning “caregiving” on all his stuff! Like, a LOT!!”

And MAYBE ‘sees’ “not only does this guy mention “caregiving” 18 times, he bolded it and put it in 50pt font!!! He must REALLY like “caregiving”!!!

The asshole from yesterday who wouldn't take no for an answer was back at it again today, offering 2 dollars more an hour, from a different cell phone number. I recognized his voice from his unsolicited call immediately, This time he got the rude response, plus being called a harasser (which he was) and got threatened with the FCC and the police. Then blocked him. I made a follow up e mail to the company he worked for threatening them with the same thing and telling them to delete me from their system entirely as I would now NEVER work for any company that they fronted.

They must be burning through psych techs for autistic kids with the heat of a thousand hells if they refuse to take no for an answer and put harassers in charge of getting candidates.

Drazzil wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:48 pm The asshole from yesterday who wouldn't take no for an answer was back at it again today, offering 2 dollars more an hour, from a different cell phone number. I recognized his voice from his unsolicited call immediately, This time he got the rude response, plus being called a harasser (which he was) and got threatened with the FCC and the police. Then blocked him. I made a follow up e mail to the company he worked for threatening them with the same thing and telling them to delete me from their system entirely as I would now NEVER work for any company that they fronted.

I'm going to humbly suggest you spend this much energy looking for jobs rather than focusing it on offers from jobs you don't want.

Also, switch to decaf.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:53 pm Also, switch to decaf.

Decaffeinated lithium, perhaps.

I knew a few psych techs. You gotta be able to learn how to put people who throw violent tantrums on a penny down, with as little violence as you possibly can, AND be careful not to hurt them. Add to this the ever present threat of being sued/jailed if something is judged "excessive" or one of your wards gets hurt. Follow this up with the shittiest pay in the psychiatric industry (seriously, the harasser offered me 13-15 an hour the ever present threat of getting seriously injured combined with absolutely ZERO support if you get hurt/maimed or disabled.

A friend of mine had a few of his teeth knocked down his throat by one of his charges, then the company didn't want to cover the dental work (implants vs bridges) or the lingering disabilities he suffered.

Fuck that. No thank you, anyone who harasses me to take one of these jobs is getting cussed out at a minimum.

Blackhawk wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:56 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:53 pm Also, switch to decaf.

Decaffeinated lithium, perhaps.

So. Due to a supply issue at Kaiser my venlafaxine hasen't been here for like 5 or six days now. Ran out five days ago. Venlafaxine is one of the worst drugs to come down from. Side effects include brain "zaps" diarrhea, headaches, angry outbursts, sweating,crying jags, fever and suicide. Maybe I have been off for a few days. I'm supposed to get my meds by courier any time now..... Annnnnnnnnytime now.

I hope you get it before your job starts. Is there nowhere in person you can get some?

Alefroth wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:22 pm I hope you get it before your job starts. Is there nowhere in person you can get some?

The courier is supposed to bring some today.

What's the status of your SSA disability claim?

Jeff V wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:31 pm
As far as "qualified applicants", I was 6-figures, but do not have an IT degree and given the primitive state of IT when I was in college (punch cards, anyone?) the 30 years of real-world experience trumps anything paper would provide. I am ITIL certified, but I certified on version 2. They are up to 4. So companies are demanding 4. Do you know what the difference between 2 and 4 is? A couple of grand to take another test. ITIL processes are in large part a function of software used and corporate culture (companies can pick and choose, not every organization is the size of the British government). The concepts are all the same, and the implementation is a personal thing endemic to every company. So I don't have v4. But I know a fuck of a lot about ITIL, and was a PM for an implementation when I worked for a hospital.

So why don't you just take the test? Actually why don't you just sit the exam(s) for the PMP? That shit is in HUGE demand, and I'd be surprised if you aren't able to do it remotely for someone. The challenge here isn't you are old at all, it's your certs that are old. I have an MCSE on NT4 - that shit isn't relevant even if the principles behind the Windows server OS apply to this day (to some degree anyways). I was also a Solaris admin in the 90s, and a Cisco admin -- all those certs are burned but I can still run a Linux environment (OO, and some home automation shit) and a PFSense firewall at home.

I find Ageism is less of a thing in IT if you stay current. Get some AWS certs, or a CISSP if you want to go cyber (hello cash money, skilled IT labour with a security slant?). If you like governance there's the CISA, where you could run IT Compliance or IT audit easily (another field that welcomes us old guys). But if you aren't investing in yourself as a priority, that will certainly put you at the bottom of the pile.

The days of managing a big data centre are fading, but being replaced by a HUGE gap in Amazon AWS and now even more so skilled Azure administrators. Seriously, spend some time on that shit and you'll be badgered by recruiters.

Certs cost a LOT of money to obtain. A PMP is a very high maintenance cert, not only do I need several years of recent project management experience just to take the exam, but it also has a continuing education requirement or it turns into a pumpkin. Every time i've done a cost-benefit analysis on various certs, it just doesn't pan out. I had a job once where I programmed Cisco firewalls, switches and routers. I did not have a cert. When I became unemployed, I looked at getting a cert. The going rate with a newly minted cert was $20K less than I was making with out it. That sums up my experience with IT certifications. If I could do it with little or no cost, I would...but those certs only exist to make the certifying authority $$$.

Keep in mind I am running on my 15 years of management experience, and not my 15 years of tech monkey experience, the latter which is admittedly a little dated. I'm not a slouch when it comes to solving technical issues, but it's not my primary focus right now. Where I excel is business relationship management between IT and the rest of the business, developing technicians to a high performance standard, and delivering projects on time. I don't particularly want to be a PMP -- although I have all of the requisite classroom work for it (unless it's expired, which it probably is). I'm really good at support, data center management, and infrastructure. A former CIO told me my job was to make him look good, and I excelled at that.

I'M A PEOPLE PERSON, DAMN IT!

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:40 pm What's the status of your SSA disability claim?

I didn't open one. Still trying to find work that I can do. Have a new JD. Several leads.

Drazzil wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:09 pm So. Due to a supply issue at Kaiser my venlafaxine hasen't been here for like 5 or six days now. Ran out five days ago. Venlafaxine is one of the worst drugs to come down from. Side effects include brain "zaps" diarrhea, headaches, angry outbursts, sweating,crying jags, fever and suicide. Maybe I have been off for a few days. I'm supposed to get my meds by courier any time now..... Annnnnnnnnytime now.

Those brain zaps are *horrible*. It's a miserable drug to come off of.

Freyland wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:09 pm

Drazzil wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:09 pm So. Due to a supply issue at Kaiser my venlafaxine hasen't been here for like 5 or six days now. Ran out five days ago. Venlafaxine is one of the worst drugs to come down from. Side effects include brain "zaps" diarrhea, headaches, angry outbursts, sweating,crying jags, fever and suicide. Maybe I have been off for a few days. I'm supposed to get my meds by courier any time now..... Annnnnnnnnytime now.

Those brain zaps are *horrible*. It's a miserable drug to come off of.

The anger, short fuze, crying jags and constant stomach aches and flu/diarreah are almost worse.

Jeff, being unemployed likely shifts the cost-benefit on those certs. Employers are looking for easy reasons to cut people, and not being certified in the latest tech is likely as big a factor as age.

Get in, show them you’re good with people and you’ll be fine. But getting in is the trick.

I never got another employer type job after I lost mine in 93. Ended up going into business for myself until I got on disability.

dbt1949 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:11 pm I never got another employer type job after I lost mine in 93. Ended up going into business for myself until I got on disability.

I really hope I can find a job/career where I can handle the work and be appreciated. Seven Eleven is gonna have real challenges for me. Fingers crossed.

First day of 7-11. I did okay. I will be learning the register tomorrow. Hopefully *that* works out. Keep ya'all posted.

Congrats! Try to keep the number of slurpees dumped on customers heads to 5 or less.

Jeff V wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:35 am Congrats! Try to keep the number of slurpees dumped on customers heads to 5 or less.

Is that per day, per hour? Please be more specific.

coopasonic wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:39 am

Jeff V wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:35 am Congrats! Try to keep the number of slurpees dumped on customers heads to 5 or less.

Is that per day, per hour? Please be more specific.

The correct response was "In a row?" "Hey you! Get back here!"

LordMortis wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:44 am

coopasonic wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:39 am

Jeff V wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:35 am Congrats! Try to keep the number of slurpees dumped on customers heads to 5 or less.

Is that per day, per hour? Please be more specific.

The correct response was "In a row?" "Hey you! Get back here!"

Drazzil wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:08 am

LordMortis wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:44 am

coopasonic wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:39 am

Jeff V wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:35 am Congrats! Try to keep the number of slurpees dumped on customers heads to 5 or less.

Is that per day, per hour? Please be more specific.

The correct response was "In a row?" "Hey you! Get back here!"

And then there's "Hey Apu! What gives with these hotdogs? You can hardly taste the hog anus!"

Jeff V wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:01 pm

Drazzil wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:08 am

LordMortis wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:44 am

coopasonic wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:39 am

Jeff V wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:35 am Congrats! Try to keep the number of slurpees dumped on customers heads to 5 or less.

Is that per day, per hour? Please be more specific.

The correct response was "In a row?" "Hey you! Get back here!"

And then there's "Hey Apu! What gives with these hotdogs? You can hardly taste the hog anus!"

Second day I did good. I didn't get to learn the register yet but I finished all my computer "training" Only missed two questions. One question on the food safety that I didn't remember. and another on the money laundering section. On the question "Would you allow someone to launder money if they offered you a bribe or gift?" Apparently "It depends on the size of the bribe or gift in question" is not an acceptable answer.

I also am able to confirm the rumors that they don't really "do" breaks or lunches at this 7-11, but they do pay people to stay clocked in for a lunch period and no one has given me trouble about my snatching a few minutes here or there to cool off in between periods of being busy. Which is fine. I'm not planning to stay long enough for this to be an issue. I have better things planned. This is a bridge job, something that will pay the bills and pop me off the government tit.

I really wish you well in this endeavor. I really do.

dbt1949 wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:50 am I really wish you well in this endeavor. I really do.

It's only my second day there but I seem to be appreciated. Plus, I don't really have to work nearly as hard as my last two gigs. Not *NEARLY* as hard. Assuming I do okay on the register, I should be okay. It's a "bridge" job. It's keeping me earning income till something better comes along.

Drazzil wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:34 am Second day I did good. I didn't get to learn the register yet but I finished all my computer "training" Only missed two questions. One question on the food safety that I didn't remember. and another on the money laundering section. On the question "Would you allow someone to launder money if they offered you a bribe or gift?" Apparently "It depends on the size of the bribe or gift in question" is not an acceptable answer.

Are you kidding or you really think that is an acceptable answer? Even if you're someone that has no problem in accepting bribe or gift to launder money, you should know to lie and answer No.

Victoria Raverna wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:22 am

Drazzil wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:34 am Second day I did good. I didn't get to learn the register yet but I finished all my computer "training" Only missed two questions. One question on the food safety that I didn't remember. and another on the money laundering section. On the question "Would you allow someone to launder money if they offered you a bribe or gift?" Apparently "It depends on the size of the bribe or gift in question" is not an acceptable answer.

Are you kidding or you really think that is an acceptable answer? Even if you're someone that has no problem in accepting bribe or gift to launder money, you should know to lie and answer No.

I should yes.

dbt1949 wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:50 am I really wish you well in this endeavor. I really do.

+1. Most of the time my criticism is in the hopes of you getting a handle on things. As somebody who has struggled and survived, nothing makes me happier than to see someone find themselves and change their trajectory.

Definitely doing better emotionally. Having fun with the new job. I don't think of throwing myself out of my eighth story window on the daily anymore. Can afford to treat myself a little better. Starbucks here, cigar there. I have money to take kitty to the vet. Need to schedule that today.

Drazzil wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:09 pm Definitely doing better emotionally. Having fun with the new job. I don't think of throwing myself out of my eighth story window on the daily anymore. Can afford to treat myself a little better. Starbucks here, cigar there. I have money to take kitty to the vet. Need to schedule that today.

Good, because 8th story is not nearly high enough to be a guarantee. It could just make things worse.

coopasonic wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:15 pm

Drazzil wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:09 pm Definitely doing better emotionally. Having fun with the new job. I don't think of throwing myself out of my eighth story window on the daily anymore. Can afford to treat myself a little better. Starbucks here, cigar there. I have money to take kitty to the vet. Need to schedule that today.

Good, because 8th story is not nearly high enough to be a guarantee. It could just make things worse.