Octopus Overlords

Holman wrote:

Arcanis wrote: 2 things. 1 if she isn't credible it means we can't really trust her. So Yes it is possible that Cain did these things but it is just as possible he didn't (with her) and this is just a hatchet job. 2 If he did target women who weren't credible then I want him as president since he can apparently see the future. He allegedly harassed her in 99 and all of the reports of things hurting her credibility happened after that.

I had high hopes for Cain as a nominee and if he did these things he should be flogged IMO. I have no expectations of actual journalism from the media (all of them) so until they can provide something more than allegations against him that is credible then I don't really care what they have to say.

Benefit of the doubt and all that. But:

1) It's not like every successful executive goes around dogged by sexual harassment charges from multiple accusers. One case could be an unfortunate misunderstanding, but several cases make you go Hmmm.

2) While we may never know what actually transpired between Cain and his accusers, we can take the measure of Cain as a leader by watching how he handles this eruption. So far he's been pretty terrible.

3) Cain wants to spin this as Herman vs. the Big Bad Media. Since even Cain admits that the accusations and settlements did happen, in what universe would these revelations not be news? When the whole basis of his candidacy is his competence as a business executive, anything that reflects on that competence is going to get scrutiny.

Cain was an idiot to put himself up for nomination. You can bet that Bill Clinton didn't enter the arena expecting never to have to deal with the skeletons in his closet.

Kraken wrote:Ron Paul missed a golden opportunity too. Instead of helpfully suggesting the EPA, he could have supplied the DoD.

Arcanis wrote:

Holman wrote:

Arcanis wrote: 2 things. 1 if she isn't credible it means we can't really trust her. So Yes it is possible that Cain did these things but it is just as possible he didn't (with her) and this is just a hatchet job. 2 If he did target women who weren't credible then I want him as president since he can apparently see the future. He allegedly harassed her in 99 and all of the reports of things hurting her credibility happened after that.

I had high hopes for Cain as a nominee and if he did these things he should be flogged IMO. I have no expectations of actual journalism from the media (all of them) so until they can provide something more than allegations against him that is credible then I don't really care what they have to say.

Benefit of the doubt and all that. But:

1) It's not like every successful executive goes around dogged by sexual harassment charges from multiple accusers. One case could be an unfortunate misunderstanding, but several cases make you go Hmmm.

2) While we may never know what actually transpired between Cain and his accusers, we can take the measure of Cain as a leader by watching how he handles this eruption. So far he's been pretty terrible.

3) Cain wants to spin this as Herman vs. the Big Bad Media. Since even Cain admits that the accusations and settlements did happen, in what universe would these revelations not be news? When the whole basis of his candidacy is his competence as a business executive, anything that reflects on that competence is going to get scrutiny.

Cain was an idiot to put himself up for nomination. You can bet that Bill Clinton didn't enter the arena expecting never to have to deal with the skeletons in his closet.

I'm not really defending him, i'm pretty sure he did it due to how he has responded, but I also want the media to do their jobs and tell us what happened rather than fling out the accusations. It just stinks of half-assed work because they don't want to do the work to dig deeper and reveal the truth. I give it a 50/50 chance of it being fear of finding it to be nothing of consequence or sloth. It just annoyed me that VR suggested that he would target women with credibility issues when the quote in his own post showed all of the credibility issues came about after the alleged incident between her and Cain.

El Guapo wrote:So as a whole, I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect "the media" to do better. Yeah particular outlets here and there are going to be reckless and/or shady, but as a group I don't know what else could be done.

Arcanis wrote:I'm saying there is documentation on it somewhere and it is a journalist's job to find it.

silverjon wrote:

Arcanis wrote:I'm saying there is documentation on it somewhere and it is a journalist's job to find it.

I am actually not ok with the idea of media personnel having full access to police and court records to release to the public willy-nilly, which is basically what you're saying they should be doing here.

Arcanis wrote:I'm saying there is documentation on it somewhere and it is a journalist's job to find it. I think many of them would rather keep sensationalizing the vague accusations because people's imaginations run wild and that gets more ratings. All of this ignoring any political bias a reporter may have. I've already heard a bunch of meaningless drivel over this from the likes of NBC and Limbaugh, most of which was offensive either in their use of stereo typing or them insulting my intelligence with their blatant pandering. I want to know what he was actually accused of not some sanitized statement that obscures reality. I want an idea of the women's credibility, I don't even really want to know their names since that puts them in an uncomfortable light. That is what I expect from "the media", not this BS political theater we always get.

ROCHESTER, Mich. - Herman Cain drew loud cheers from the audience as he defended himself once again against accusations of sexual harassment, and none of his rivals challenged him on the issue as the Republican presidential candidates met for their ninth debate last night.

Facing his rivals for the first time since allegations of harassment surfaced just over a week ago, Cain got a boost from a friendly audience, which jeered the moderators for even asking him about the controversy.

“The American people deserve better than someone being tried in the court of public opinion based on unfounded accusations,’’ Cain said, sparking some of the loudest applause of the night.

Pyperkub wrote:

Rip wrote:

Carpet_pissr wrote:Nor is it surprising the more I find out about and listen to Cain, the more ridiculous the notion that he is a front runner for a presidential nominee. And that is completely discounting the current tizzy about the sexual allegations.

I would agree but then I examine the other candidates and am much less surprised.

Give me a Jindal or Daniels first any day. I am actually reduced to having to reconsider Gingrich.

The funny/strange/horrifying thing is that I can't see any of them winning a nomination with how far to the right the GOP has gone, although Romney is well on his way...

Kraken wrote: Must be one of those crimes only liberals get their panties in a bunch over.

El Guapo wrote:I like the “The American people deserve better than someone being tried in the court of public opinion based on unfounded accusations,’’ quote. It's not about him, after all. It's about how the American people shouldn't be troubled with having to evaluate accusations against him.

Kraken wrote:Well, it seems that Republicans don't care about sexual harassment anyway. Must be one of those crimes only liberals get their panties in a bunch over.

ROCHESTER, Mich. - Herman Cain drew loud cheers from the audience as he defended himself once again against accusations of sexual harassment, and none of his rivals challenged him on the issue as the Republican presidential candidates met for their ninth debate last night.

Facing his rivals for the first time since allegations of harassment surfaced just over a week ago, Cain got a boost from a friendly audience, which jeered the moderators for even asking him about the controversy.

“The American people deserve better than someone being tried in the court of public opinion based on unfounded accusations,’’ Cain said, sparking some of the loudest applause of the night.

Holman wrote:"I do not believe I should be tried in the court of public opinion, and that's why I'm here to ask for your vote."

stessier wrote:I'm surprised - I thought that was Little Caesar's country.

Kraken wrote:Well, it seems that Republicans don't care about sexual harassment anyway. Must be one of those crimes only liberals get their panties in a bunch over.

Chrisoc13 wrote:

Kraken wrote:Well, it seems that Republicans don't care about sexual harassment anyway. Must be one of those crimes only liberals get their panties in a bunch over.

You are assuming that republicans accept that he did it.

I understand your point here in showing hypocrisy but it could be that a large number of people simply don't buy the stories being slung around. I can tell you that personally whenever our attorney friend Gloria Allred gets involved I immediately start thinking "this doesn't seem very legitimate."

I would rather wait to see what actually happened then care too much now.

Victoria Raverna wrote:

Rip wrote:Not surprising the more I find out about Cain's accuser the less I am likely to find them credible.

A woman who settled a sexual harassment complaint against GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain in 1999 complained three years later at her next job about unfair treatment, saying she should be allowed to work from home after a serious car accident and accusing a manager of circulating a sexually charged email, The Associated Press has learned.

To settle the complaint at the immigration service, Kraushaar initially demanded thousands of dollars in payment, a reinstatement of leave she used after the accident earlier in 2002, promotion on the federal pay scale and a one-year fellowship to Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, according to a former supervisor familiar with the complaint. The promotion itself would have increased her annual salary between $12,000 and $16,000, according to salary tables in 2002 from the U.S. Office of Personnel Management.

Kraushaar said Tuesday she did not remember details about the complaint and did not remember asking for a payment, a promotion or a Harvard fellowship. Bennett, her lawyer, declined to discuss the case with the AP, saying he considered it confidential. Kraushaar left her job at the immigration service after dropping the complaint in 2003, and she went to work at the Treasury Department.

So if she can't remember details about something way after the incident we are supposed to rely on her memories of it? And because Cain didn't recall information about it he is hiding something?

Kraushaar's complaint was based on supervisors denying her request to work full time from home after a serious car accident in 2002, three former supervisors said. Two of them said Kraushaar also was denied previous requests to work from home before the car accident.

The complaint also cited as objectionable an email that a manager had circulated comparing computers to women and men, a former supervisor said. The complaint claimed that the email, based on humor widely circulated on the Internet, was sexually explicit, according to the supervisor, who did not have a copy of the email. The joke circulated online lists reasons men and women were like computers, including that men were like computers because "in order to get their attention, you have to turn them on." Women were like computers because "even your smallest mistakes are stored in long-term memory for later retrieval."

Kraushaar told the AP that she remembered the complaint focusing on supervisors denying her the opportunity to work from home after her car accident. She said other employees were allowed to work from home.

Sounds to me like someone that would cause whatever fuss they could to get what they want. The e-mail sounded funny to me and complaining about it was petty.

Maybe she flirted with Cain just hoping he would bite so she could sue?

But that doesn't mean Cain didn't sexually harass her. Just because the victim is not credible doesn't mean the accused is innocent.

Maybe Cain specially targetted women that are not credible?

Pyperkub wrote:

Carpet_pissr wrote:Nor is it surprising the more I find out about and listen to Cain, the more ridiculous the notion that he is a front runner for a presidential nominee. And that is completely discounting the current tizzy about the sexual allegations.

He's not (a front runner).

“The American people deserve better than someone being tried in the court of public opinion based on unfounded accusations,’’ Cain said, sparking some of the loudest applause of the night.

Rip wrote:While it doesn't mean he is innocent of the accusations it certainly makes it more likely.

silverjon wrote:

Rip wrote:While it doesn't mean he is innocent of the accusations it certainly makes it more likely.

That's the same kind of mentality that says we only take a reported rape seriously when it's made by a nice girl.

Exodor wrote:I present the candidate's D&D character sheets.




I think my favorite bit might be Herman Cain's ability scores.

Arcanis wrote: Those just made me realize that some poor German dunce is wondering why the guy with the "No,No,No" plan is so popular.

A national CBS News poll shows Gingrich as the choice of 15% of GOP voters, tied with Mitt Romney and three points behind Herman Cain, who is slipping.

A national McClatchy/Marist poll shows Gingrich in second place with 19% of the vote — four points behind Romney. Also notable is that 43% of Gingrich’s supporters say they are firmly committed to his candidacy — compared to 30% for Romney, and 31% for Cain. In total, only 30% of voters supporting a candidate say they are firmly committed. Gingrich’s higher-than-average floor of support could prove significant moving forward.

Jaymann wrote:I heard on the radio that Perry had some kind of brain freeze. What happened?

Arcanis wrote:

Jaymann wrote:I heard on the radio that Perry had some kind of brain freeze. What happened?

During the debate he said there were 3 departments he wanted to cut out and he forgot the 3rd one when listing them. Paul tossed him the third after he went 'um, uh' for about 5 seconds strait. At least he had the good nature to go on the shows and make fun of himself for it later, Letterman in particular was funny.

Grundbegriff wrote:Roll the videotape

Holman wrote:It totally comes off like someone grasping for the sound bite that sounds good rather than something he's really thought about.

Mr. Fed wrote:I thought that Perry video would be the most excruciating moment of the campaign.

Then came Herman.