Hearthstone

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:20 pm

That good, huh?

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:41 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:20 pm That good, huh?

Hearthstone is simply not worth it to play single player. It's good/great as a PvP game but I'd never play it single player. It's all solvable.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:23 pm

I played it a little when it first came out, but only solo. It was fun, but there wasn't much variety back then. I dislike PvP in card games. I don't want to research and grind up all the current cards for the meta deck (I generally dislike limiting my gameplay in any game to the meta builds), so I tend to get stomped.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:30 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:23 pm I played it a little when it first came out, but only solo. It was fun, but there wasn't much variety back then. I dislike PvP in card games. I don't want to research and grind up all the current cards for the meta deck (I generally dislike limiting my gameplay in any game to the meta builds), so I tend to get stomped.

Which is completely legit. It just means that Hearthstone and games like it (Magic, Runeterra, etc) aren't for you. The thing is that for any player vs player game that I've ever heard of, there's always a meta because all the things aren't equal to all the other things. The challenge for the designers is to make sure that there are still good choices in the meta so you don't have to play only the thing, you can play different things, and still be successful. You can never play any thing because any thing is not going to work. The current designers for Hearthstone are way way better than it used to be. They nerf as needed, as early as 10 days after the release of an expansion, and they have a regular examination of the meta to see if changes are needed. There's noise out there that there are a couple of cards in this new expansion that may need nerfing, but I have confidence they'll look at the data to make sure things are looking relatively good.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:37 pm

Yeah, I know the logic. I played WoW enough to know the Blizzard buff/nerf/meta process by heart.

And you're right. I don't play those type of games, either online or in person, for exactly that reason (including 'serious' PvP games, including much WoW PvP.) I sit down and think, "cards A, B, and C look like so much fun!" and the multiplayer turns around and says, "No, you will never use cards A, B, and C. You must use card X, Y, and Z, and you must use them in exactly the prescribed manner." I look at X, Y, and Z, and they're absolutely uninspiring and dull, but just happen to be slightly more effective.

I get why some people find that fun, and that some people thrive on the theorycrafting, but to me it replaces the theme with mechanics and sucks a lot of the joy out.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:36 am

Nowadays it's more like 40-50 cards out of an expansion will see regular play. Back in the day there was like one decent deck and the rest sucked, but players hated that and designers have finally figured out how to not do that. Since the expansions are common/rare/epic/legendary, most of the cards that aren't playable in a particular meta aren't legendary/hard to get. And sometimes cards that weren't playable will become playable after an expansion has been released, that happens reasonably frequently.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:54 pm

I'll also say that it's pretty annoying that they now have all these micro-achievements, like summon 10 creatures with spell damage, cast 20 damage spells, etc. What's super annoying is that the rewards for these are tiny (5 or 10 achievement points or whatever they're called) and collecting them requires going into several sub-menus and then clicking the achievements a bunch of times. On top of collecting the rewards in your 'journey map' or whatever.

Not a huge deal, but it's just considerably more cumbersome than the previous system where you just get the awards automatically as soon as you achieve them.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:26 pm

If it makes you feel better, those achievement points provide exactly zero rewards, so all that clicking is really for nothing.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:30 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:26 pm If it makes you feel better, those achievement points provide exactly zero rewards, so all that clicking is really for nothing.

Ah, I thought those were going into the pool that unlocks rewards. Oh well, easy enough to ignore then.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:32 pm

I *think* only the quests that get you experience points unlock rewards. But it is still dumb that you need to go to the map to get the reward after leveling up.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:02 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:32 pm I *think* only the quests that get you experience points unlock rewards. But it is still dumb that you need to go to the map to get the reward after leveling up.

It's just bizarre that there's a meaningless achievement point total that's apparently not usable for anything.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:48 pm

FWIW, there are at least two of Blizzard's recent games where there are achievement rewards. They're not for every achievement or even most, but for some (usually the end of a series of sequential achievements or tied to progression - finishing a chapter, for instance.)

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:49 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:48 pm FWIW, there are at least two of Blizzard's recent games where there are achievement rewards. They're not for every achievement or even most, but for some (usually the end of a series of sequential achievements or tied to progression - finishing a chapter, for instance.)

Yes. Achievements are new to HS and players are used to getting x for doing y thus the confusion/disappointment.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:05 am

After a couple of weeks with the new rewards system, I have to say I’m not a big fan. You get plenty of rewards at the beginning of the track, but things really slow down at level 15+ or so. I used to be able to do the daily rewards and get enough gold to play arena every two days or so. But now I’m only earning enough gold for a ticket every four or five days. Part of the problem is that about every other reward isn’t gold and even when the reward is gold, at least at level 24 or so, it’s not enough (100g) for an arena ticket. As far as I can tell, there’s no other way to earn gold now other than by leveling. So effectively this new system has reduced the amount of time I’m playing the game, which I imagine was definitely not their intent.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:04 pm

Update on the Rewards system. Main thing for me is that you can again use Tavern Brawls to fulfil quests.

Most notable: " We’re removing weekly quests that require Legendary cards and Arena runs. These quests are more difficult than intended for players due to the investment necessary. Frankly, these were a mistake and we shouldn’t have included them to begin with. They’ll no longer be in the quest pool after the update. Please note that if they are among your active quests after the update, they will not be automatically removed, but you can reroll them for a different quest." Glad they finally understood that not everyone wanted to play a stupid legendary to get rewards.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:41 am

Hopefully those changes make an impact. Mainly I just want to be able to earn enough gold every two days or so to play an arena or duels run. If the changes make that possible, I'll be happy with them.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:53 pm

I burned out on Runeterra and quit playing (likely temporarily) a couple weeks ago, after playing daily since December. I figured I'd boot up Hearthstone for the heck of it... the first time since May 2019 apparently. The additions look interesting, but I don't know if the relatively limited gameplay and payment model can entice me to take more than a casual look back.

First thing they offered me was a "Welcome Back Bundle" with 80 packs + two legendaries and a hero from the previous three sets (not including the current one) for $50 CAD / 40 USD. In Hearthstone, that's a pretty good deal. But I still can't fathom dropping that on packs in this game. AAA games retail for $80 CAD, and most of those get decent discounts within months. /hackneyedcomplaint

Finally having achievements is cool. Apparently I have 4261 wins? Holy crap. Also interesting to see paladin is my most-winning class at 595, and warrior the least at 401. That surprises me, as I recall playing a lot of warrior control. Not well, evidently lol....

I've missed Hearthstone's board interactions.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:10 pm

What's weird is that I logged in a few weeks ago, and when I logged in I suddenly got the animated figures for Paladin and Priest that you get at 500 class wins. Did they change something about how wins are counted. I wasn't playing / winning while logged off...

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:43 am

Benevolent hacker?

So I've played a few games... mostly arena and adventure stuff. It's fun. It's the most responsive of the online CCGs. It just feels good. But boy does the payment model and progression system feel even worse now that I've played Runeterra. When I played Hearthstone seriously (that is, casually every day for years, but not competitively), I always managed to get the vast majority of the cards I wanted F2P via arena and daily quests. But, after my dust from the previous expansion was exhausted, it was a long grind... and I might not be able to play some meta decks until near the end of the expansion. That doesn't seem like fun anymore. I really can't imagine trying to play competitively in Hearthstone or MTG: Arena, not when Runeterra and to a lesser extent Eternal (the last time I played) are so friendly to newcomers. Opening packs feels meaningless, because you're just waiting for good legendaries (and might be waiting an eternity).

The interface sure feels bloated now, but I know some of it is just having to adjust to all the new stuff. But seriously, they expect newbies to navigate this but they didn't think they could handle additional deck slots? The rewards track is so inelegant compared to Runeterra's overall and event progression screens. You have to click the arrows to advance... seriously? Already once I've missed rewards that I didn't realize were on a previous page. And it's fun to have achievements, but the pop-ups when you unlock them while playing are meaningless. I can't click on them for context. So instead I have to go through 2-3 menus to find them? And then I have to click to activate them? What the hell? And so many of them are fluff.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:16 am

Wow... I thought the auto chess mode would be stupid. But I think it might be brilliant. At least at first glance, for someone with slight experience with the genre. Definitely addictive at first.

Duels are a lot of fun too... I wasn't expecting such an interesting mode to have been added. It combines constructed with drafting and adventure-like abilities?

I really, really miss Runeterra's ability to right-click on a card and see all its related cards and modes, etc.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:36 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:10 pm What's weird is that I logged in a few weeks ago, and when I logged in I suddenly got the animated figures for Paladin and Priest that you get at 500 class wins. Did they change something about how wins are counted. I wasn't playing / winning while logged off...

Yeah - the update made arena matches included in class win totals.

Torfish · Post by **Torfish** » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:47 pm

The game added a new core set that are pretty good cards. It's overall easier to get free packs through the updated achievement system. It's doable to be competitive in rank play with going purely free and starting anew.

The new expansion has my interest, so I play standard mode more than battlegrounds right now. Battlegrounds is suppose to be getting a big update later this month.

WYBaugh · Post by **WYBaugh** » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:10 pm

If any nice person would let me beat them three time so I can get the WoW mount, I would be forever grateful.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:28 pm

Instead of what I tought would be a brief look back, I've become addicted to Battlegrounds. I suspect that will fade the more I actually learn the strategies though. I find autochess games to be highly stimulating, but outside of the frustrating randomness, it takes unfun calculating and manipulation to play at a high level. However, I will say that Hearthstone's implementation of autochess is brilliant. It seemed like something that wouldn't work in a CCG environment. But it might work... better. And it's very tightly tied to the main game in terms of them and mechanics.

I'm a little annoyed at the paid perks pass though... it seems unnecessary. I wouldn't mind paying something for this mode, but what you get doesn't seem worthwhile. Access to more heroes... I can see that being valuable if you're playing competitively. New hero early access... sure, but who really cares? Advanced stats... I have to pay for stats and records? Piss off. Emotes... fluff, and if you're prone to tilting you might be better off without them. (I really miss being able to chat in games.) And they want me to pay 18.99 CAD three times per year for this? LMAO!

I've barely touched the other modes. Arena is still fun. Duels seems like a lot of fun, but I'm not sure I want to pay for competitive entries. Especially when it's a hybrid mode that might require you to have a large card library (which I don't have anymore) to excel. I've heard that it's not very popular currently; I presume it might not get as much support as it did when it was launched?

WYBaugh wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:10 pm If any nice person would let me beat them three time so I can get the WoW mount, I would be forever grateful.

Do you have my on your friends list? SudyNym#1476. I play at really random hours though, as I work night shift and don't regulate my sleep schedule very well. Shoot me a message any time you see me online, but if I don't reply I'm sorry... I'm likely not actually online, or I'm working and don't have time to reply. I don't usually bother to keep my Blizzard messenger status updated as I don't usually play multiplayer with anyone.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:46 pm

I run hot and cold on battlegrounds. It's a fun diversion, though I occasionally get frustrated over bad luck on who minions choose to attack and on winding up one short of triples on key minions. But I enjoy it overall.

Also - is it just me, or are 90% of ranked players using creatureless mage decks? I assume that's part of why they nerfed Deck of Lunacy, though I suspect an additional nerf or two is coming.

WYBaugh · Post by **WYBaugh** » Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:48 pm

Sudy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:28 pm Instead of what I tought would be a brief look back, I've become addicted to Battlegrounds. I suspect that will fade the more I actually learn the strategies though. I find autochess games to be highly stimulating, but outside of the frustrating randomness, it takes unfun calculating and manipulation to play at a high level. However, I will say that Hearthstone's implementation of autochess is brilliant. It seemed like something that wouldn't work in a CCG environment. But it might work... better. And it's very tightly tied to the main game in terms of them and mechanics.

I'm a little annoyed at the paid perks pass though... it seems unnecessary. I wouldn't mind paying something for this mode, but what you get doesn't seem worthwhile. Access to more heroes... I can see that being valuable if you're playing competitively. New hero early access... sure, but who really cares? Advanced stats... I have to pay for stats and records? Piss off. Emotes... fluff, and if you're prone to tilting you might be better off without them. (I really miss being able to chat in games.) And they want me to pay 18.99 CAD three times per year for this? LMAO!

I've barely touched the other modes. Arena is still fun. Duels seems like a lot of fun, but I'm not sure I want to pay for competitive entries. Especially when it's a hybrid mode that might require you to have a large card library (which I don't have anymore) to excel. I've heard that it's not very popular currently; I presume it might not get as much support as it did when it was launched?

WYBaugh wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:10 pm If any nice person would let me beat them three time so I can get the WoW mount, I would be forever grateful.
Do you have my on your friends list? SudyNym#1476. I play at really random hours though, as I work night shift and don't regulate my sleep schedule very well. Shoot me a message any time you see me online, but if I don't reply I'm sorry... I'm likely not actually online, or I'm working and don't have time to reply. I don't usually bother to keep my Blizzard messenger status updated as I don't usually play multiplayer with anyone.

Hey Sudy and thank you! I'll add you and see we're able to meet up in the future. I really appreciate the offer!

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:08 am

El Guapo wrote:
Also - is it just me, or are 90% of ranked players using creatureless mage decks? I assume that's part of why they nerfed Deck of Lunacy, though I suspect an additional nerf or two is coming.

I’ve been playing it a bunch lately. I think it’s actually stronger without Deck of Lunacy. They key is playing as early as possible the card that reduces the cost of spells in the deck. If you can play that twice within the first four rounds or so, your chance of winning skyrockets. I wouldn’t be surprised if they nerfed that card (maybe make it 3 mana?) and the card that renews mana crystals when drawing spells.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:27 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:08 am
El Guapo wrote:
Also - is it just me, or are 90% of ranked players using creatureless mage decks? I assume that's part of why they nerfed Deck of Lunacy, though I suspect an additional nerf or two is coming.
I’ve been playing it a bunch lately. I think it’s actually stronger without Deck of Lunacy. They key is playing as early as possible the card that reduces the cost of spells in the deck. If you can play that twice within the first four rounds or so, your chance of winning skyrockets. I wouldn’t be surprised if they nerfed that card (maybe make it 3 mana?) and the card that renews mana crystals when drawing spells.

I dunno, Deck of Lunacy is pretty powerful in that deck. When it was 2 cost if they cast it on the second round of the game (especially if they followed it up with the spell cost reduction spell) I mentally wrote off the game as lost, because a steady string of high powered spells is pretty hard to overcome. And yeah, I've been wondering if they'll nerf the "renew mana crystals" draw spell - earlier this morning a guy played that twice so drew 4 cards for 0 mana.

At the same time it's not the most broken deck I've ever faced. I'm mostly playing a spell damage mage deck which probably wins slightly more often than not against the spell mage decks. It's just curious how universal the deck is (though seems like it's getting slightly less so lately).

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:58 am

I played my 2nd Duel and did decently this time, 5 wins with a Paladin. This mode is pretty crazy, though it seems rather unpredictable. And I'm annoyed that it looks like I need to invest in Darkmoon cards to unlock the other hero abilities? It seems like Arena is going to be more reliable if you're in it for the ROI.

As I'm unexpectedly getting back into this, that $40 USD 80-card, 2-legendary welcome back bundle is starting to get more tempting. But I still can't see dropping that amount of money on packs, especially when I'm mainly playing Battlegrounds.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:08 am

One thing that's annoying about Duels is that as I understand it some of the treasures are designated as "ultra rare" (or whatever the terminology is), so they're more powerful and you just get them on occasion at random. It's irritating to me to get blown out by someone essentially just because they happened to draw one or two of the ultra rare treasures. I don't see the logic for having some rare more random treasures / abilities available.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:17 am

It really feels to me like multiplayer version of the older single-player content that was more roguelike/light-ish. Which is fine... but then giving it a pay/reward mode?

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:30 pm

El Guapo wrote:
I dunno, Deck of Lunacy is pretty powerful in that deck. When it was 2 cost if they cast it on the second round of the game (especially if they followed it up with the spell cost reduction spell) I mentally wrote off the game as lost, because a steady string of high powered spells is pretty hard to overcome. And yeah, I've been wondering if they'll nerf the "renew mana crystals" draw spell - earlier this morning a guy played that twice so drew 4 cards for 0 mana.

My experiences with Deck of Lunacy is that I either crushed my opponent or got crushed. And it seemed about 50/50 to me. In particular, any time the spells were highly biased towards buffing minions, I had little chance.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Wed May 12, 2021 7:56 pm

I'm still not sure whether Battlegrounds it stupid or brilliant, but I can't stop playing. It's not quite as fresh anymore, but it's still got that "one more game" appeal. I went ahead and got the perks pass (with gold, not cash) since it just dropped in cost, but... it really is a waste of money. The emotes aren't really fun or useful, getting to play new heroes two weeks in advance is nice but irrelevant, being able to choose from an additional two heroes at the start of the game is helpful and fun but it shouldn't be a paid feature, and the "Full Stats" (lol) don't even tell you your total games played or store records beyond your last five games. What the hell, Blizzard?

I guess it's cool that I now know I've played for 31 hours in the last 3+ weeks.

I continue to peck away at Ranked and Arena, mostly to complete quests. I want to do more Duels, but I feel held back by not having more of the starting options unlocked. I'm getting there, but it's slow since it requires cards from older sets... and I don't really want to drop gold (or cash) on packs. Also gradually catching up on the free Adventures, especially when I need a "pausable" game mode like when I'm eating or waiting for a call. I'm interested in the paid ones too, but can't really justify it when most of the rewards have rotated out of Standard.

Surprisingly, playing the demon hunter (both in Ranked and the Adventure) has piqued my interest in WoW's Legion-era lore, and I actually just re-subbed to play a DH there for the first time. I doubt it will hold my interest, but crazy, right? Lore is usually one of the last things that draws me back to WoW--it's typically the gameplay loop and nostalgia.

I don't really know how Hearthstone has hooked me again. After playing it on a nearly daily basis for years, I more or less quit cold turkey and didn't look back. I guess it's mostly the polish, and all the cards I haven't seen before. But aspects of the interface annoy me more and more, and overall the gameplay and design is far less good than Runeterra's. I've actually gone back to doing my daily quests in Runeterra, mostly the solo Lab. But I don't really have the desire to play other modes right now, even though they just released a mini-expansion.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Tue May 18, 2021 11:01 pm

I know it's only bronze and silver ranks, but this budget midrange DH deck is obscene and rolls over almost everything. I just won 12 in a row.

In a poorly planned move, I went ahead and bought the tavern pass even though I'm already to about 70 on the rewards track. I never expected I'd be enjoying the game this much for this long, even I'm primarily only playing 5-10 ranked runs each week to complete quests, maybe one arena run, and the rest of the time spend in battlegrounds.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Wed May 19, 2021 12:15 am

Glad you’re enjoying it. I wish I understood how to play Battlegrounds decently.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Wed May 19, 2021 12:37 am

I don't know that I play it decently myself lol. Have you played other variants of auto chess? It definitely helps to remember that top 4 is considered a win. I've only got 8 first-place finishes in 34 hours and I'd estimate 120 games played. But success definitely seems counter-intuitive at times. To do really well you have to carefully calculate and exploit gold management and tavern upgrades. It can be essential to ditch an early game plan if too many of your opponents are already in that tribe, etc. I honestly don't enjoy thinking that hard while I play, hence I don't do better.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Wed May 19, 2021 10:28 am

Sudy wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 12:37 am I don't know that I play it decently myself lol. Have you played other variants of auto chess? It definitely helps to remember that top 4 is considered a win. I've only got 8 first-place finishes in 34 hours and I'd estimate 120 games played. But success definitely seems counter-intuitive at times. To do really well you have to carefully calculate and exploit gold management and tavern upgrades. It can be essential to ditch an early game plan if too many of your opponents are already in that tribe, etc. I honestly don't enjoy thinking that hard while I play, hence I don't do better.

No, Battlegrounds is the only one I've been exposed to. Guess I just need to keep at it.

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Wed May 19, 2021 10:46 am

Sudy wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:01 pm I know it's only bronze and silver ranks, but this budget midrange DH deck is obscene and rolls over almost everything. I just won 12 in a row.

I've tried a similar deck. I fully expect the Illidari Inquisitor to be nerfed at some point, that card is so broken, it's not even funny. But I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

Torfish · Post by **Torfish** » Wed May 19, 2021 11:45 am

Anyone interested in playing/learning battlegrounds, this is a great time to jump in. It reset recently.

Personally I like battlegrounds just as much as constructed (standard). I'm currently at 6,200 MMR. It's a good combination of skill and RNG type of game. Easy to learn. Takes about 20 mins for each game.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:08 pm

I continue playing both Hearthstone and Runeterra daily. Mostly just to complete dailies before I move on to Battlegrounds and Lab of Legends. I have no laddering aspirations, it's just way too grindy for me. But it's amazing how different the two games feel. I'm enjoying Hearthstone a lot again after getting burnt out a couple years ago, but Runterra truly does make it feel antiquated. Between Hearthstone's outdated skeuomorphic interface design and pressure to pay to compete/complete. And there are comparatively so few meta deck options. What Blizzard has added to the game over the past couple years is fantastic, and I'm loving most of it. But they've completely failed at evolving in terms of marketing or design. But they're Blizzard, so they don't have to. It's why WoW is one of the last remaining mainstream subscription-only MMOs.