Political Randomness

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:35 pm

Are you new here? :p

We’ve been hyper-patriotic for as long as I can remember. I wish I could say there’s nothing wrong with that but I think we’ve crossed over from merely patriotic/‘love our country and the ideals it stands for’ to hardcore jingoistic some time ago. Which has caused quite a few problems imo.

A lot of it based on the arrogant idea that we are the best country in the world, and maybe more recently (decade?) based on right wing tribal influences and ideas of superiority.

It seems more than ever that patriotism means showing others (internally and externally) that “we” (the enthusiastic flag wavers) are better than everyone else (again, internal and external) and we are going to show it via flags, wearing red white and blue clothes, etc.

It most definitely is a cult.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:51 pm

Lol... no. Just reflecting, not realizing for the first time. It's just so bizarre.

We definitely have that element in Canada. Especially the more rural you get. But I lived in NC for a few years when I was a young teen, and then SD for about a year as a young adult, and it was always something above any beyond.

It always seemed like something tribal as you say that may be understandable during the early years of a nation's establishment or if under bombardment by neighboring cultures, but there's nothing like that here. Something vestigial that somehow survived enlightenment. Only, as the past decade has shown, we're/they're not as enlightened as we used to believe. Yet in the halls of power, the so-called progressives are almost as jingoistic as the reprobates.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:13 pm

I saw some goddamn Trump 2024 flags yesterday. They were along the street in front of a strip mall, so it's difficult to pin down the pin head who put them up.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:16 pm

We're hardly the only country in the world with a "we are the best" mentality at times. Ultra nationalism is a part of almost any country. Hence the existence of far right political groups all over the world.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:22 pm

That's true, though generally if we're talking about sincere mentalities (e.g. more than just "my national football club is best" or "German engineering is the best in the world"), it seems more likely to occur under despotism and in party-worship-oriented states. It's like America is the freest nation that forgot it didn't have to bow down. And that of course applies far before Trump. For many people it's like the emergencies-only national pride switch flipped during WW2 was never turned off.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:31 pm

I think it's important to establish the difference between patriotism and nationalism before condemning the former as an indication of the latter.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:35 pm

This might be the closest I'll ever get to a legitimate opportunity to casually insert, "say what you like about the tenets of national socialism--at least it's an ethos."

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:39 pm

Not sure we have the same definition of legitimate.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:51 pm

Sudy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:34 am I've never really understood flag-flying patriotism. It strikes me a little like hanging a photo of my house in my bedroom. "Yes, I live here". I didn't really have a choice, but I'd like to think I'd live here even if I did. Dead people did a whole lot of good and bad things here much like anywhere else, but we choose to remember the good things more. Plus we have poutine. Fuck, I think I'm in a cult.

I think American expressions of patriotism have a history not quite equivalent to most other Western nations.

Traditionally, national identity in European countries was based on "peoples" defined by common language and culture. France was where the French spoke French and did French things. The many small German-speaking principalities of Central Europe thought of themselves as "the Germans" long before there was a unified German nation. The same was true in Italy before its unification. Former British colonies like Canada and Australia became independent nations essentially in partnership with British identity rather than by rejection of it. These European identities preceded their national governments, often by many centuries. (I'm oversimplifying, sure, but this is general trend.)

The United States, on the other hand, was a nation of colonists-settlers-immigrants whose cultural roots lay elsewhere but who wrote their nation into being with a new Enlightenment document. Rather than claiming some undefined "Americaness," patriotism in the Early Republic meant loyalty to the Constitution, and the flag was its symbol. (Apparently we were very defensive about it from the beginning. De Tocqueville complained that a foreigner would be shouted down if he uttered the slightest criticism of the new USA.)

Obviously times change, but American patriotism has always depended upon and deployed the flag and other symbols in ways other countries might not. Symbols are vulnerable to seizure and redefinition, however, and what we're seeing in the 21st century is an attempt to claim traditional American icons for new, radically different purposes.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:31 am

Government Ethics Paladin Walter Shaub went on an epic tear on Twitter pointing out all the ugly nepotism happening throughout the political class now including references to Kagan making nepotistic hires and also the mystery of who paid off all of Kavanaugh's debt. There is a lot in there. Trump might have been the low bar for ethics but the Biden administration has not been great either with family members of key staff members and political boosters (A good example are the Ricchettis who are legion in the Biden administration).

I'll post the thread opener - it was a 20+ tweet thread pointing out layers and layers of nepotism, corruption, with a dash of elite unaccountability thrown in. This morning he pointed out he was holding up a mirror to Democratic party boosters who were ignoring or dismissing the deep corruption of 'their team'. The reaction has proved his point IMO.

https://twitter.com/waltshaub/status/14 ... 5749489668

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:08 am

Sudy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:34 am I've never really understood flag-flying patriotism. It strikes me a little like hanging a photo of my house in my bedroom. "Yes, I live here". I didn't really have a choice, but I'd like to think I'd live here even if I did. Dead people did a whole lot of good and bad things here much like anywhere else, but we choose to remember the good things more. Plus we have poutine. Fuck, I think I'm in a cult.

Canadians (and some Americans) abroad are very conspicuous with the Maple Leaf, making it clear that they're not Americans.

I've always got the same feeling seeing flag waving in Canada. Though that being more a self-reminder that "we are not Americans!"

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:21 am

That commercial was a slickly produced phenomenon, but it made me gag even then. That said, I do identify with struggling to overcome stereotypes abroad. For half a semester in North Carolina, my nickname was "the only gay Eskimo" in 7th grade. (There was even a jingle!) I am neither same-sex attracted nor a northern aboriginal person (though would be proud to be either). That said, I'm starting to think the kids were just being mean, as I'm not aware of Canada being distinctly associated with homosexuality.

Canada will always suffer from identity issues and little-brother syndrome. We like to think we represent the best of the U.S. and Europe, but we really don't. Poutine's pretty good though.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:38 am

When I'm WFH, I keep CNBC on in the background. I am getting a little sick of them interviewing people who make/made a living out of exploiting people making wages barely or not enough to live off of, getting angry that people are staying at home and collecting a paycheck as if $900 a week before taxes (which ends this week, at least in Michigan) provides you with a lifelong life of leisure.

Today they had the former CEO of Wells who led the exploitation of multiple fee accounts of the poor and ran the junk real estate scams before the crash in 2008-2009 railing on teachers ruining the economy.

Every time the owner of the Houston Rockets, or "Mr Wonderful", or whatever elite wealth retainer of day gets on and says the poors are too greedy and lazy and they are destroying the country, I find myself moving one degree more Drazzil.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:07 pm

If someone has a better suggestion for this, I'll move it but I am genuinely dumbstruck. I wonder if any of these people are hepcat's coworker?

https://twitter.com/kthorjensen/status/ ... 9628369928

the new Trump diehard theory is that Joe Biden was repelled from entering 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue by "the military" on inauguration day and has been living in an 80% replica scale model of the White House on Tyler Perry's Atlanta estate.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:16 pm

lol, that's awesome.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:19 pm

The mental gymnastics required of die-hard right-wingers are breathtaking.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:29 pm

We all know the true power of the office resides in whoever can post convincing 'Grams in front of a White House.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:47 pm

Wait, wait.

So Biden never got to enter the real White House and has been fake running the country since inauguration day? That means that there's a whole other government set up inside the real White House that's been in total isolation and media blackout for over 6 months. I hope they're doing okay. They must have started eating each other by now.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:19 pm

Well, it's easier than faking the moon landings...

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:39 pm

And somehow the conservative press outlets have been going along with it, as well as the conservative members of Congress.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:03 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:19 pm Well, it's easier than faking the moon landings...

Hey please keep EBG out of R&P!

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:32 pm

Well to be fair, it does explain that weird video where Biden's hand appears to pass in front of a mic that's several feet in front of him. Green screen!

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:35 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:07 pm If someone has a better suggestion for this, I'll move it but I am genuinely dumbstruck. I wonder if any of these people are hepcat's coworker?

Which one? Male nut job quit Facebook in a huff last December when he suspected that dems were reporting his posts, and Facebook was censoring him too much (his words). He announced on his page he was moving to parler, and urged all his friends to join him. This lasted until about 3 months ago, when he started posting on his OLD Facebook page…the one he’d abandoned to create a new one because he didn’t want his ex-wife reading his posts. Now it’s just post after post with the Facebook fact check warning on them.

The female nut job had a hissy fit on Friday during our company mid year all employee meeting when it was announced that some of our clients in the utility business might start requiring vaccine proof to enter their facilities. Apparently they’re fascists for wanting to be safe.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:36 pm

https://twitter.com/alice_radley/status ... 74953?s=20

J.D. Vance is the author of Hillbilly Elegy and is desperate to transform himself from a Yale-educated lawyer to a salt-of-the-earth Trumpian redneck.

His attempt to run for the Senate from Ohio has flatlined, so he's embracing any Trump tropes he can. He's a total piece of shit.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:21 pm

Yeah, I'm deeply disappointed in J.D. Vance. I read Hillbilly Elegy a few years back, and it was a pretty solid thoughtful book, and he seemed like a pretty thoughtful guy. Now he's just another craven ambitious asshole. In some ways I respect the dumb ideologue Trumpists more - at least they believe what they're saying.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:26 pm

Holman wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:03 pm
Zaxxon wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:19 pm Well, it's easier than faking the moon landings...
Hey please keep EBG out of R&P!

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:00 am

I was looking a an article about the fighting in Ethiopia and they had a picture of Tigrayan soldiers all wearing crocks. Just blew me away.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:25 am

El Guapo wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:21 pm Yeah, I'm deeply disappointed in J.D. Vance. I read Hillbilly Elegy a few years back, and it was a pretty solid thoughtful book, and he seemed like a pretty thoughtful guy. Now he's just another craven ambitious asshole. In some ways I respect the dumb ideologue Trumpists more - at least they believe what they're saying.

This is by far my biggest issue with the cast of elite Trumpists: Hawley, Cotton, DeSantis, Stefanik, Cruz, etc. They all know what they are doing yet they do it anyway.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:14 am

https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/1 ... 72256?s=20

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:16 am

malchior wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:25 am
El Guapo wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:21 pm Yeah, I'm deeply disappointed in J.D. Vance. I read Hillbilly Elegy a few years back, and it was a pretty solid thoughtful book, and he seemed like a pretty thoughtful guy. Now he's just another craven ambitious asshole. In some ways I respect the dumb ideologue Trumpists more - at least they believe what they're saying.
This is by far my biggest issue with the cast of elite Trumpists: Hawley, Cotton, DeSantis, Stefanik, Cruz, etc. They all know what they are doing yet they do it anyway.

I will say that there's a chance that this is what he (and others like him) believed all along and he was lying before when he thought that was his best route to power and success. Though I think the other way round is more likely to be true.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:04 pm

El Guapo wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:16 am
malchior wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:25 am
El Guapo wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:21 pm Yeah, I'm deeply disappointed in J.D. Vance. I read Hillbilly Elegy a few years back, and it was a pretty solid thoughtful book, and he seemed like a pretty thoughtful guy. Now he's just another craven ambitious asshole. In some ways I respect the dumb ideologue Trumpists more - at least they believe what they're saying.
This is by far my biggest issue with the cast of elite Trumpists: Hawley, Cotton, DeSantis, Stefanik, Cruz, etc. They all know what they are doing yet they do it anyway.
I will say that there's a chance that this is what he (and others like him) believed all along and he was lying before when he thought that was his best route to power and success. Though I think the other way round is more likely to be true.

Sure but in either case he is a garbage human. What's hilarious is he has exposed himself as a walking heap of trash and the rabid base is seeing right through it and seemingly knows he is a total, complete phony.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:12 pm

malchior wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:04 pm Sure but in either case he is a garbage human. What's hilarious is he has exposed himself as a walking heap of trash and the rabid base is seeing right through it and seemingly knows he is a total, complete phony.

That's the next step in all this. The base will start demanding more extreme litmus tests to separate the True MAGA from the poseurs.

It will not be good for America.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:31 pm

https://twitter.com/themaxburns/status/ ... 8960809991

Lindsey Graham getting COVID at Joe Manchin's boat party is hands down the most bipartisan thing Graham has done in the past dozen or so years.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:19 pm

That DeJoy is still running the USPS into the ground and corruptly paying himself is just astonishing. I have next to little faith in this country anymore. We can't stop OUT IN THE OPEN corruption. Fuck this shit. Maybe he is recusing himself but it isn't hard to steer work to your own pockets when you are deciding how the organization runs. This is Russia-like kleptocracy. Biden needs to do whatever he has to do to remove him.

https://twitter.com/jacobbogage/status/ ... 8785396742

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:55 pm

There's 4 Republican (5 including DeJoy) and 4 Democratic governors and 2 Independents. You'd think they'd be able to oust him. A Republican governor's term is up in December.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:30 pm

Alefroth wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:55 pm There's 4 Republican (5 including DeJoy) and 4 Democratic governors and 2 Independents. You'd think they'd be able to oust him. A Republican governor's term is up in December.

You'd think. Let's see he is under investigation by the FBI for campaign finance issues, he lied to Congress last year, broke the USPS during the election, has a 10-year plan that drastically reduces service at a higher cost, and is siphoning money to family businesses. What will it take?

And yes I know that - it's complicated - but this is an obscene situation. It is simply open out in the open corruption. A bunch of old, white guys looting our country and laughing at our inability to do anything about it. It must end.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:33 pm

XPO Logistics is publicly traded as XPO. They recently (like this week) spun off GXO Logistics (GXO). Clearly a move to protect the distro/fulfillment side and substantial real estate holdings.

This is so dirty it's not even funny in Chicago.

Lie, cheat, steal, bluster, and be brazen. This is the the American way now.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Sat Aug 07, 2021 12:34 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:XPO Logistics is publicly traded as XPO. They recently (like this week) spun off GXO Logistics (GXO). Clearly a move to protect the distro/fulfillment side and substantial real estate holdings.

This is so dirty it's not even funny in Chicago.

Lie, cheat, steal, bluster, and be brazen. This is the the American way now.

Not sure if it ever wasn't. Maybe We just had the good fortune to grow up during the Cold War when the US actually tried to live up to the propaganda?

It's getting hard to tell.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:02 pm

Pyperkub wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 12:34 pmNot sure if it ever wasn't. Maybe We just had the good fortune to grow up during the Cold War when the US actually tried to live up to the propaganda?

It's getting hard to tell.

I mean there is little chance the US was squeaky clean in the past but it wasn't you know just so flippin' obvious. Meanwhile everyone is just looking at each other saying, "nothing we can do". Comparatively, Jimmy Carter was bullied into selling his family farm to avoid the appearance he might benefit from being President. Instead now we have explanations that DeJoy's arms length 'recusal' from the actual decision is good enough protection while the guys family lands a contract for $25M. Or we have the TFG *STILL* profiting from selling rooms to his protection routine on our dollar, or the President's son out of nowhere is selling art for a half million. Things have declined dramatically in the last 40 years.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat Aug 14, 2021 3:04 pm

Oh look, more DeJoy sketchiness.

DeJoy bought up to $305,000 in bonds from USPS board chair’s investment firm