I'm not defending Musk's character--he's shown his assholishness with alarming frequency lately. But if there's one thing I don't doubt, it's his commitment to Tesla's (and SpaceX's) mission. It's far more believable to me that he would consider a Saudi investment to make the company stronger and better able to focus on long-term goals without the quarterly focus that's detrimental to that than it is to believe that he's looking to make a buck at the expense of Tesla's mission.
I'd be similarly dismissive of [hypothetical] folks who suggest Musk may eventually turn SpaceX's focus into shipping cargo to LEO and give up the Mars side of things. It's just not gonna happen.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:06 pm
by coopasonic
Zaxxon wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:42 pm
I'd be similarly dismissive of [hypothetical] folks who suggest Musk may eventually turn SpaceX's focus into shipping cargo to LEO and give up the Mars side of things. It's just not gonna happen.
It amuses me that I read that as Law Enforcement Officer(s). It took a second to fix that in my brain.
I feel better about Musk talking about privatizing to be able to focus more on long term success than quarterly results because for most of the past decade at our annual meeting it has been a thing our CEO has addressed as something we have to carefully balance. Now I'm not saying we are the same as Tesla. We have been solidly profitable (in the Bs annually) for a couple decades now and have a market cap near Tesla's. We *could* make a lot more money in the short term, but it would be to the detriment of everyone involved but the short term stockholders. I understand our business a lot better than I do auto or battery design and manufacturing so I can independently verify and understand what my CEO is saying and after 16 years I have a lot of faith in what he says. If Musk is saying basically the same thing, I am on board.
I would be happy for him to get the hell off twitter though.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:55 pm
by noxiousdog
It's a given that business work better in private hands, but when you accept all that capital in a public offering IT COMES WITH RESPONSIBILITIES.
It will be really interesting to see how many institutional investors tell him to get bent.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:19 pm
by LordMortis
noxiousdog wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:55 pm
It's a given that business work better in private hands, but when you accept all that capital in a public offering IT COMES WITH RESPONSIBILITIES.
It will be really interesting to see how many institutional investors tell him to get bent.
If I understand correctly, and I might not, he pretty much needs a hostile takeover to go private. The same rules that allowed the freedoms he's been accustomed to are the ones that will shackle him becoming a privately held company, aren't they?
He wants to retain a majority of shareholders because he needs a majority of his shareholders to be on board.
Elon Musk is firmly in the driver's seat at Tesla Inc. (TSLA - Get Report) , but not surprisingly, it's a bit of an unconventional ride.
Musk only owns 22% of the equity of the battery-powered car company that he founded and runs as CEO, but that stake coupled with corporate super-majority voting rules gives him a complicated form of control over the business, academics and investors say.
"The argument is that he has control, not voting control, not equity control, but a complex form of control by combination of his equity stake on one hand and supermajority voting provisions on the other," said University of Iowa Associate Professor of Law Gregory Shill.
Musk owns 22% of the equity and voting rights in the company, which may not seem like a lot considering that Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg controls 60% of the votes at the social media giant and much less of the equity. However, according to a lawsuit in Delaware Chancery Court, Tesla's bylaws contain supermajority voting requirements that require the approval of two-thirds of shares to OK major changes at the electric-car maker, including mergers, acquisitions or changes to the board's compensation.
Last year, a large minority of Tesla investors urged the electric-car maker to have annual elections for its directors, a major rebuke to Musk and the company's board. According to securities filings, roughly 30% of the for and against vote -- 47% if Musk's stake was excluded --- backed a proposal that was seeking to collapse the company's staggered multi-year director election system. The company's annual meeting is expected in June - look for more shareholder proposals targeting governance and Musk's complex control regime to come.
Interesting stuff at least. I don't know what's what but from the dunce's corner it's interesting.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:48 pm
by coopasonic
Coop got a new toy.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:52 pm
by Zaxxon
But... but... those PANEL GAPS!!!!oneone!! Was that thing built in A TENT?!!!eleventyone!!!??!!
Just kidding. Congrats; looks awesome.
I've got a test drive of a P3D later today that Tesla was 'kind' enough to offer me. I'll be working hard to ensure that I don't get hooked.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:54 pm
by noxiousdog
That looks amazing. Congrats.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:11 pm
by Kraken
Love the color.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:22 pm
by Zarathud
Selling your gas free auto maker to Saudi Arabia seems like cutting your own throat.
Elon Musk has made many long-term promises. I have no doubt he's under major pressure from short sellers, but at some point he has to deliver product AND return.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:23 pm
by Jaymann
Welcome to the club coop!
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:42 pm
by noxiousdog
Zarathud wrote: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:22 pm
Selling your gas free auto maker to Saudi Arabia seems like cutting your own throat.
Elon Musk has made many long-term promises. I have no doubt he's under major pressure from short sellers, but at some point he has to deliver product AND return.
He's not under pressure from short sellers. They have no voting rights. He's not the only company with a lot of short interest.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:52 pm
by LawBeefaroni
The thing about Musk's claims that only 1/3 of the company will go to a new buyer is total bullshit. I mean he may want that but without a buyer he has no way of knowing what terms they'll ask for. Typically a buyout is all or nothing and requires a shareholder vote. No buyer is going to want to share 40% of their company with retail investors. Like I said before, it's a promise he has no control over keeping and is just a way to make shares seem like some kind of magic ticket.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:35 pm
by stessier
Back on topic - Congrats Coop!
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:12 pm
by Zaxxon
Just test-drove the P3D. Man, that thing is a beast. The biggest noticeable difference is that the car flies off the line, where the RWD models seem to be software-limited to prevent slippage. I was definitely seeing stars when lanching from a dead stop. Passing acceleration is an improvement over my RWD 3, but mine's quite fun enough in that dept.
For the price (base Performance 3 is about $2200 cheaper than a base BMW M3), that thing is going to eat a significant chunk of market share from the BMW M3, et al.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:15 pm
by coopasonic
I did a lot of random accelerating as I was driving around this morning and at lunch. I am not sure I even want to feel what the P3D has to offer. More than what we have feels wholly unnecessary.
I am seriously considering handing my wife a bucket the first time she rides in the car.
Did they put an "oh shit" handle in the P?
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:23 pm
by Zaxxon
coopasonic wrote: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:15 pm
I did a lot of random accelerating as I was driving around this morning and at lunch. I am not sure I even want to feel what the P3D has to offer. More than what we have feels wholly unnecessary.
Agreed. 5% of me does wish I had AWD, though.
Did they put an "oh shit" handle in the P?
They did not. I would not want to be a passenger that the driver did not warn before launching.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:19 pm
by Jaymann
I saw something on a software update about a limiting your acceleration option. Fuck that noise.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:21 pm
by coopasonic
Jaymann wrote: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:19 pm
I saw something on a software update about a limiting your acceleration option. Fuck that noise.
There is "chill mode" that might be good for my wife. She would probably lose it if she hit the pedal and went full bore.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:23 pm
by Zaxxon
Jaymann wrote: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:19 pm
I saw something on a software update about a limiting your acceleration option. Fuck that noise.
To be clear, I meant a 'good' limitation, so that I accelerate without tearing up my tires. I can always turn on slip mode if I really want to burn rubber. My point was more that the AWD vehicle seems to take full advantage of the fact that it's got four tires pushing forward rather than two.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:28 pm
by Jaymann
Haha, I knocked over a step ladder in my garage and the Tesla lights came on - just checking.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:27 am
by coopasonic
14 day autopilot trial started for me today. That was interesting. A bit stressful at first. Literally puckering the first time I let the car change lanes for me. Impressive how quickly autopilot wants to get up to speed when the traffic in front of you clears. I think I could used to it, but I still don't see it being worth another 10% on top of the price of the car.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:38 pm
by telcta
Oh, I missed the post that you got the car, Coop. It looks great! Congratulations! Have you used Chill mode yet? I wonder if that makes the auto pilot a little less jarring when a lane clears ahead of you.
I’m still waiting for any type of movement on my order. Every time they make a little UI update to the manage page my heart skips.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:48 pm
by coopasonic
telcta wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:38 pm
Oh, I missed the post that you got the car, Coop. It looks great! Congratulations! Have you used Chill mode yet? I wonder if that makes the auto pilot a little less jarring when a lane clears ahead of you.
Chill mode is an option I would possibly turn on for my wife. The acceleration doesn't really bother me. It's what I would do if I were managing the pedal too.
This is day 4 with the car and I am still grinning ear to ear. CHarging it at work today to get ready for some driving this weekend. Work chargers only do 30A, but it should fill me up by end of day (23mi/hr... I think I was seeing around 35mi/hr at home).
telcta wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:38 pm
I’m still waiting for any type of movement on my order. Every time they make a little UI update to the manage page my heart skips.
It seems like AWD is the slowest line, with most AWD cars going to Performance customers. I've seen estimates that they are cranking out over 6k a week now and lots of Dual motor VINs being requested, so they are getting to yours.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:53 pm
by Zaxxon
There's a separate option that you can change if the 'holy shit, the lane is clear GO GO GO' is too much for you on Autopilot. I can't remember the name offhand.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:04 pm
by stessier
Zaxxon wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:53 pm
There's a separate option that you can change if the 'holy shit, the lane is clear GO GO GO' is too much for you on Autopilot. I can't remember the name offhand.
Zaxxon wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:53 pm
There's a separate option that you can change if the 'holy shit, the lane is clear GO GO GO' is too much for you on Autopilot. I can't remember the name offhand.
From Brownlee's Youtube channel - an interview with Musk and a tour of the factory (both from Aug 15).
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:39 am
by Zaxxon
Moliere wrote:
I can't say that this guy's wrong. I'm sure Tesla's software team is overworked and underfunded, not to mention constantly under time pressure. But that guy reminds me of this XKCD classic:
Everyone's automotive software is terrible. I'm pretty confident that Tesla's is the least terrible out there. Our Volvo's software situation is a hot mess 2+ years after delivery. Still no OTA updates, slow as molasses, bugs in virtually every subsystem.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:16 pm
by Jaymann
So I got the 14 day free trial on auto steering and lane change. The sliders are turned on but how the F do I activate it? I see a new Tesla symbol on the display but when I poke it nothing happens. I also realized I don't know how to turn on the hazard lights.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:23 pm
by Jaymann
Zaxxon was too slow - hazard light is on the ceiling.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:23 pm
by Zaxxon
Pull the gear lever halfway downward twice.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:26 pm
by mori
Jaymann wrote: Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:16 pm
So I got the 14 day free trial on auto steering and lane change. The sliders are turned on but how the F do I activate it? I see a new Tesla symbol on the display but when I poke it nothing happens. I also realized I don't know how to turn on the hazard lights.
You have to pay extra for that? I thought it was included with the purchase of the automobile. You have to have a Premium account to access all the features of the car?
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:52 pm
by Zaxxon
Autopilot is an option. As these features are with any brand.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:02 pm
by Kraken
My town's electric company hosts EV demonstrations every now and then. (They also give EV owners a discount on electricity for charging overnight.) They're doing one next weekend and told me they will have Tesla models S, 3, and X available to drive. I'm not even remotely on the market for a new car, but might go anyway just for the chance to drive a Model S. I wonder if they'll let me go 0-60 in 2.8 seconds.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:08 pm
by Isgrimnur
Is that speed even possible in Massachusetts?
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:40 pm
by Kraken
I will settle for 0-30 in 1.4 seconds.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:57 am
by coopasonic
Kraken wrote: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:40 pm
I will settle for 0-30 in 1.4 seconds.
Just FYI, 0-30 is where EVs reign supreme.
Re: tesla motors
Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:41 pm
by Jaymann
Well I tried out the auto steering and I fuking hate it. To say it is worthless is an insult to the concept of worth. It stayed way too close to the right hand curb. When you put on the gas it flashes blue at you, and when you touch the brake it turns off. It takes way more attention to keep it from screwing up than just steering yourself. It's like giving control to a drunken toddler.
