Star Wars WW - Game Over - Rebel Victory

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:58 pm

Oh, I'm sure the Rebels figured Newcastle's play as a long shot and a few highly suspected Alderaan-ers jumped right up to vote for him.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:00 am

Newcastle wrote:/eagerly awaits Unagi's head to EXXXPLODE!

Is that a sexy explosion?

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:01 am

El Guapo wrote:
Newcastle wrote:/eagerly awaits Unagi's head to EXXXPLODE!
Is that a sexy explosion?

i dont find darth's fire scorched head to be exciting...but you might leia

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:02 am

triggercut wrote:Oh, I'm sure the Rebels figured Newcastle's play as a long shot and a few highly suspected Alderaan-ers jumped right up to vote for him.

Yeah, likely so.

So one question on my mind now: is Coop rebel or credulous empire? People get sucked into weird theories sometimes, but this was kind of far gone. Would seem risky to have a rebel go to bat so clearly for him, though.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:03 am

ugh, bb2112 probably went to bed or something lame like that.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:11 am

FYI, that's two entire game days that Grund's been silent. Even tru1cy has posted more.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:16 am

pr0ner wrote:FYI, that's two entire game days that Grund's been silent. Even tru1cy has posted more.

Yeah, it's really baffling. What non-rebellious explanations are there for Grund's silence? Personal lack of interest in the game for some reason? Some role that he feel is best protected by silence?

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:04 am

El Guapo wrote:
pr0ner wrote:FYI, that's two entire game days that Grund's been silent. Even tru1cy has posted more.
Yeah, it's really baffling. What non-rebellious explanations are there for Grund's silence? Personal lack of interest in the game for some reason? Some role that he feel is best protected by silence?

Real life getting in the way? It has happened before and I pushed to get him lynched the last time that happened.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:21 am

Why do I feel like the Imperials was just Jedi Mind Fucked™ on this vote. I hope we got it right

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:29 am

Voting is Now Closed

It is Now Night 3

Write Up to Follow

Votes at End of Day 3

2 RMC ------------------> Newcastle
3 Tru1cy --------------- > Newcastle
4 Remus West --------->
6 Newcastle ------------> El Guapo
7 Mr. Bubbles ----------> Newcastle
8 Theohall --------------> Newcastle
11 Coopasonic ----------->
12 El Guapo --------------> Newcastle
13 Lord Mortis -----------> Newcastle
15 Unagi ------------------> RMC
16 Pr0ner -----------------> Newcastle
17 Semaj ----------------->
18 Kenetickid ------------>
19 Triggercut ------------> Newcastle
20 Isgrimnur -------------> Mr. Bubbles
21 Grundbegriff --------->

Newcastle 9 <------------- Pr0ner, RMC, Theohall, Mr. Bubbles, Lord Mortis, El Guapo, Tru1cy, Triggercut
Mr. Bubbles 1 <----------- Isgrimnur
RMC 1 <------------------- Unagi
El Guapo 1 <-------------- Newcastle

Dead:
1. Chaosraven - Day 1 Lynch
2. Stessier - Night 1 Kill
3. Scoop20906 - Day 2 Lynch
4. Lassr - Night 2 Kill
5. Qantaga - Day 3 Choked by Vader

Majority is 9
Deadline: It is now Night 3

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:12 am

tru1cy wrote:Why do I feel like the Imperials was just Jedi Mind Fucked™ on this vote. I hope we got it right

I think we got it right.
(he may still avoid the lynch, of course)

After the vote's conclusion:
Newcastle's posts are taunting, El Guapo's are just about 'whats to follow'...

It would be much weirder for El Guapo to have continued with his conversation than it is for Newcastle to simply say "you missed, you fools!"

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:23 am

El Guapo jumps up, "I know who a Rebel is!"

"What are you talking about?" asks Triggercut in bored tones.

"I do, look at Newcastle." El Guapo declares. Everyone turns to look at Newcastle with blank looks on their faces. "It's Princess Leia you dumbasses!"

Suddenly the room erupts in a fit of arguing. Newcastle is heard yelling over the din, "No I'm not! I'm being framed! It's a trap! El Guapo, you are the evil Rebel! I am not the Princess you are looking for!" Newcastle almost falls over from lack of oxygen because of all the words pouring out.

Slowly the votes started piling up as the argument rages on. "I'm innocent I tell you, innocent!" Newcastle is almost hyperventilating, but nobody seems to be taking the arguments seriously.

Finally Kenetickid looks up from where he is tallying the votes. "We have 9! We have reached the majority. We can finally execute Newcastle!"

Everyone turns expectantly to Unagi. Unagi, knowing that he now must meet out justice, stands up and points at Newcastle. "I find your lack of faith disturbing. The Rebels are no match for the Dark Side. You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor!" Slowly Newcastle rises off of the floor and strangled choking noises fill the room. Newcastle falls limply to the floor.

Newcastle is DEAD

El Guapo leaps to Newcastle's side and pulls out a Rebel document. "See, I told you Newcastle was a Rebel, and here is proof!"

Theohall stands up, "Well, that means 3 Rebels are dead. Maybe this will put this ugly business behind us and now we can focus on why, after 3 days, we haven't been rescued."

Triggercut chimes in, "Not tonight. I'm tired from all this arguing, we will tackle that issue tomorrow. That is if we don't have to root out another Rebel."

With a murmer of agreement, the group breaks up to go to sleep.

Just then a flushing noise is heard from the adjoining bathroom and Semaj steps out zipping up his pants. Everyone turns to look at him. With his hands still on his fly and his zipper only half way up, Semaj stops and notices every eye is turned his way. Feeling a little uncomfortable with so much attention he exclaims defensively, "What?! What?! Why are all of you staring at me! What'd I miss?"

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:29 am

Not one tiny iota of surprise.

As we head into a night turn that probably will see me finding a bucket to kick, I would like to point out that--while I tried to make very little of it at the time--the attempt I made to give Leia an alternative to Aderaan during Day 3 went *nowhere*. "Hey Newcastle, let's allow you to live, but how about we vote on RMC?"

Also, Mara Jade may have been turned, and if it happened, coopasonic becomes an endgame problem worthy of consideration.

Good night.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:34 am

Rebel Scum!!! Score another for the Empire's justice!!!

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:39 am

It is now Night 3

Night: Events happen in turn order
Boba Fett: Who will you protect (once per game)? If successful, you get a free scan the next day.
Grand Admiral Thrawn: Who is worthy of your protection tonight?
Grand Moff Tarkin: Who of the deceased will you scan to learn their true identity?
Han Solo: Will you initiate a block? If so on who?
Rebels: Who will you kill?
Jabba the Hutt: Did you help lynch Solo? If so, then you get a free scan. You will be notified by PM from the moderator.
Emperor: Who will you scan to discern their identity?
Luke Skywalker: Who will you scan for Vader or Mara?
Vader: Who will you scan for Luke?
Rukh: Who will you scan for Thrawn?
Obi Wan Kenobi: Who of the deceased will you scan to learn their true identity?
Talon Karrde: Who will you scan to discern their identity?

Anytime:
Rukh: If you have identified Thrawn, you may interrupt any kill on Thrawn and sacrifice yourself instead.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:49 am

Day 1 continues to nag at me a bit.

Scoop is at 6 votes.

coopasonic votes to put him at 7.
Qantaga, a known rebel teammate puts him at 8.
theohall puts him at 9.

Scoop comes "out" as the Emperor.

Unagi congratulates Scoop on his excellent use of smartphone tech for being able to post a picture of the Emperor.

Scoop says that he thought he might need to come out, so he uploaded the pic to his phone previously.

Assumption then: Scoop saw the big train of all Empire votes on him and decided to spoof a role to draw our Emperor out.

Thoughts now: Scoop *planned* to spoof the role of the Emperor all along, and in so doing either:

1. Leads us down a merry path for a turn or so while our Emperor stays in deep cover, or
2. Is exposed right away by counterclaim, giving the Rebels the ID of our Emperor and also giving them a "safe harbor" under which colluding rebels who voted Scoop up to "force" his hand might gain assumption to being safely Empire.

With the revelation that Qantaga was a Rebel, it now calls into question the final votes on both Scoop trains.

coopasonic was vote 7 on the Scoop to N-2 train, and vote 10 on the N-1 train.
Grundbegriff was vote 9 on the Scoop N-1 train. Interesting.

Did Scoop fumble his "reveal" as Emperor on Day 1??

theohall moving up the suspect list quickly.
tru1cy moving down a bit.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:02 am

triggercut wrote:Also, Mara Jade may have been turned, and if it happened, coopasonic becomes an endgame problem worthy of consideration.

As I said before, I learned my lesson from the CR lynch from two perspectives. First I'm not going to put my faith blindly in any reveal when there is a counter-reveal. Second, I'm not going to push people to vote in any certain way. Yes, I was on the wrong side on this one vocally and I really thought there was a chance Newcastle was telling the truth. Most importantly I felt that if El Guapo's story were true there was no harm in letting a powerless Leia live another day and give Rukh a chance to speak up. I thought there was a chance we were doing to Newcastle the same thing we did to CR.

Now that we know Guapo's tale is true, it's likely Scoop was Han and I've done dangerous things twice. Once encouraging votes on CR and then encouraging a shot on Scoop. It's damning evidence and I wouldn't blame you for killing me, but please wait until there aren't any better targets, because I am Imperial and I'd hate to be the reason we lose. Not a special, so not particularly valuable, just a guard.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:15 am

coopasonic wrote: Now that we know Guapo's tale is true, it's likely Scoop was Han

Ya think? I don't think bb2112 gave El Guapo a free scan because he's got a nice face.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:25 am

triggercut wrote:
coopasonic wrote: Now that we know Guapo's tale is true, it's likely Scoop was Han
Ya think? I don't think bb2112 gave El Guapo a free scan because he's got a nice face.

I do have a nice face, though.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:26 am

There wasn't much surprise. Newcastle was desperate and not everything he said made sense. He made an attempt, but when he went emo I knew without a doubt, not that we had much doubt to begin with.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:31 am

triggercut wrote:Day 1 continues to nag at me a bit.

Scoop is at 6 votes.

coopasonic votes to put him at 7.
Qantaga, a known rebel teammate puts him at 8.
theohall puts him at 9.

Scoop comes "out" as the Emperor.

Unagi congratulates Scoop on his excellent use of smartphone tech for being able to post a picture of the Emperor.

Scoop says that he thought he might need to come out, so he uploaded the pic to his phone previously.

Assumption then: Scoop saw the big train of all Empire votes on him and decided to spoof a role to draw our Emperor out.

Thoughts now: Scoop *planned* to spoof the role of the Emperor all along, and in so doing either:

1. Leads us down a merry path for a turn or so while our Emperor stays in deep cover, or
2. Is exposed right away by counterclaim, giving the Rebels the ID of our Emperor and also giving them a "safe harbor" under which colluding rebels who voted Scoop up to "force" his hand might gain assumption to being safely Empire.

With the revelation that Qantaga was a Rebel, it now calls into question the final votes on both Scoop trains.

coopasonic was vote 7 on the Scoop to N-2 train, and vote 10 on the N-1 train.
Grundbegriff was vote 9 on the Scoop N-1 train. Interesting.

Did Scoop fumble his "reveal" as Emperor on Day 1??

theohall moving up the suspect list quickly.
tru1cy moving down a bit.

I don't have an answer for that but perhaps the plan was to smoke to out the real emperor, which they did do, just in an ironic sort of way. You know pile on a bunch of votes knowing full well that we wait and see what happens at n-1 and knowing full well that the rebels aren't going to put you over. Then you get the excuse to back off with scoop reveal.

coopasonic wrote:Now that we know Guapo's tale is true, it's likely Scoop was Han and I've done dangerous things twice.

or at least Guapo's tale is highly probable. There is still an outside chance that there was a gamble that both Guapo and Newcastle are rebels builiding a degree of trust for Guapo. I'm not inclined to believe they were ballsy enough when they game so very much in the rebels favor to fake Guapo's role but it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:33 am

So Newcastle was a rebel! How shocking! If only Newcastle was around, he could explain how this was part of my double-secret special double-cross conspiracy. What happened to that guy, anyways?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:42 am

triggercut wrote: Also, Mara Jade may have been turned, and if it happened, coopasonic becomes an endgame problem worthy of consideration.

You're suggesting that Coop might be a Mara Jade who was subsequently turned? What's the basis for that - Coop pushing Scoop to n-1 but subsequently acting suspiciously?

Another Coop theory (per LM) is that he's rebel all along, and did the n-1 thing (knowing that no rebels would push him over) to gain trust with imperials. Of course, the problem with that theory is that it's a big risk that an imperial would push him over - for example, when you logged on and withdrew your Scoop vote to take him back to n-2, you could have instead put in your overvote and gotten Scoop lynched. Seems excessively risky for the rebels, though not impossible.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:49 am

Would probably be informative to have Tarkin (if he's around) dead-scan Qantaga - would be immensely helpful to know if he's Luke, Chewie, or Lando. Would also be helpful to know about our dead imperials, but I think rebel role knowledge is more important.

Note that it's a separate question as to whether Tarkin in that situation should reveal himself with that information, but in any event it would be good for at least one of us to be informed on that I think.

But then, I may be addressing a pretend or dead person anyhow.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:55 am

Unagi would know Qantaga role. I think we can safely assume Q was Luke

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:00 am

tru1cy wrote:Unagi would know Qantaga role. I think we can safely assume Q was Luke

Except Unagi has said that he doesn't know who Qantaga is. IIRC he didn't scan him, just figured out that he was a rebel from suspicious posts and the like.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:00 am

tru1cy wrote:Unagi would know Qantaga role. I think we can safely assume Q was Luke

Unagi wrote:
triggercut wrote:Aha.

Qantaga was Luke Skywalker.

Nice.
Actually, I'm not at all sure on that.

I can tell you all that RMC and Newcastle do not buy their Power Converters at Toshi Station.

I don't know who the hell Qantaga was, but he clearly wasn't Imperial.

So, I may indeed still be a 'seer' of sorts... but I may not be... cause - well, Qantaga may very well have been Luke.

I wouldn't safely assume.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:01 am

Hilarious that both coopasonic and LordMortis are suggesting only that it is "highly probable" that Scoop was Han, Newcastle was Leia, and that El Guapo is Jabba.

"Highly probable"?

Good lord.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:03 am

tru1cy wrote:Unagi would know Qantaga role. I think we can safely assume Q was Luke

Why would Unagi not have told us if he knew who Q was Luke? What has he got to gain by hiding information when he is literally one of two guys (the other being Remus... Who even then may end up as Mara Jade and get converted after she's been silenced.) completely above suspicion?

OTOH, the kk and grund complete silent treatments are beginning to wear a little thin for me.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:07 am

triggercut wrote:Hilarious that both coopasonic and LordMortis are suggesting only that it is "highly probable" that Scoop was Han, Newcastle was Leia, and that El Guapo is Jabba.

"Highly probable"?

Good lord.

I think it more probable then your overvote being an imperial overvote, even if I think that this is also merely probable. *shrug*

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:14 am

triggercut wrote:Hilarious that both coopasonic and LordMortis are suggesting only that it is "highly probable" that Scoop was Han, Newcastle was Leia, and that El Guapo is Jabba.

"Highly probable"?

Good lord.

I guess we are conspiracy theorists. My thoughts run along LMs that it's still possible that this is all a conspiracy, but I'm going on the assumption that all is at it seems, at least with the provens. I'll try to keep my internal conspiracy theorist at bay.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:35 am

LordMortis wrote:
triggercut wrote:Hilarious that both coopasonic and LordMortis are suggesting only that it is "highly probable" that Scoop was Han, Newcastle was Leia, and that El Guapo is Jabba.

"Highly probable"?

Good lord.
I think it more probable then your overvote being an imperial overvote, even if I think that this is also merely probable. *shrug*

Yeah, that's the SECOND time you've screwed up on the rules.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:37 am

LordMortis wrote:
triggercut wrote:Hilarious that both coopasonic and LordMortis are suggesting only that it is "highly probable" that Scoop was Han, Newcastle was Leia, and that El Guapo is Jabba.

"Highly probable"?

Good lord.
I think it more probable then your overvote being an imperial overvote, even if I think that this is also merely probable. *shrug*

bb2112 has clarified the rules: Yoda cannot use his overvote to vote for a Rebel.

Whom, then, do you think cast the invisible votes on both Scoop and Newcastle?

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:39 am

Is it morning yet?

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:43 am

triggercut wrote:bb2112 has clarified the rules: Yoda cannot use his overvote to vote for a Rebel.

Whom, then, do you think cast the invisible votes on both Scoop and Newcastle?

Missed that. That being the case you've moved past probable.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:41 pm

El Guapo wrote:Would probably be informative to have Tarkin (if he's around) dead-scan Qantaga - would be immensely helpful to know if he's Luke, Chewie, or Lando. Would also be helpful to know about our dead imperials, but I think rebel role knowledge is more important.

Sorta disagree. What you are looking for is simply 'peace of mind'. There is no change in our actions if we find out that Qantaga was Chewie or Luke... (IMO)

I would love it if we started to go off my list (I mean, have a little faith!) - and the moment one of my targets turn up Imperial - everyone can stop going down my list.

Regarding Scoop - Remember this: Every sinlge time he's been evil, that I am aware of, he insists that he can't really Play "Evil Schemer" with everyone on the Evil Forum, or he will give himself away. To that point, I am sure that there was indeed the standard "back up plan" of "Cry Seer!", but I don't think they were Pushing for that... they were happy to have him also just LIVE. That being said, I am sure there were some Rebels on his vote, and a number of them actively pushing for the CR vote. (I think we actually know this, via Qantaga and Newcastles votes, if nothing else).

Don't dwell on it too much.

I think we need very much to test RMC tomorrow. (He is not Luke)

I plan to scan someone else on my list tonight (I'm not likely to survive though....), and I know that Qantaga could very well have been Luke.
(I actually think the rules don't speak on it, theoretically, I could scan Qantaga tonight, (i think), but I really don't care if he was or wasn't Luke)

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:44 pm

Lord Mortis
Coop
Grund
Mr. Bubbles
Tru1cy
RMC
Newcastle

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:50 pm

Well, Qantaga's role could change our analysis somewhat. If Qantaga was Chewie, for example, we know that we don't need to worry about where we're throwing our votes around so much. If he was Lando, that affects our analysis of whether to use any additional shots, and how many misses we have. If he was Luke, that changes our calculation about the odds that we have to worry about a rebel Mara Jade.

It's not critical information to be sure, but I'd think it more important than scanning our dead imperials - not sure what actionable information that would yield. And we already know who Scoop and Newcastle were, so no need to scan them.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:20 pm

El Guapo wrote:Well, Qantaga's role could change our analysis somewhat.

- but it will also be used against us. I don't trust all of your weak minds with information like that.

El Guapo wrote:If Qantaga was Chewie, for example, we know that we don't need to worry about where we're throwing our votes around so much.

So, that helps us "not worry", but it doesn't help us avoid anything ugly, or know who to shoot, etc.
I will say that if Qantaga was Chewie, they were playing him very lowdown... but if we found he was Chewie, maybe we would focus on players that mentioned he was someone they could vote for at some point... But - c'mon, that will be all of us, really.

El Guapo wrote:If he was Lando, that affects our analysis of whether to use any additional shots, and how many misses we have.

So, Qantaga was Lando - what would you do with "Rebel Suspect X", not shoot him? I think that is going to depend much more on the Shooters feeling that the Suspect is Rebel, not Lando (or Chewie) (at this point in the game...)

If Qantaga wasn't Lando - - you're right where you are Right Now: You would like to Shoot every remaining Suspect, after a Vote is taken on "Who to shoot"... but ya can't...

Truth could be that we have no more shots...

El Guapo wrote:If he was Luke, that changes our calculation about the odds that we have to worry about a rebel Mara Jade.

First, you will never know if Mara Jade is converted at this point, second - this is also just peace of mind. "Helps us not worry".

El Guapo wrote:It's not critical information to be sure, but I'd think it more important than scanning our dead imperials - not sure what actionable information that would yield.

Well. Couldn't it lead to the revalation that Jabba the Hutt was stessier? Technically speaking, of course... I mean you handed us Newcastle, but, well - you get the point... Also, knowledge of our dead would keep the remaining Rebels from claiming those roles uncontested.

All that being said, I don't think the information is going to be terribly critical in any case.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 pm

Life interfered. Looks as if I have a lot of catching up to do!