Octopus Overlords

Personally, I think they are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Sure, a delivery can cross up to 2 toll bridges during course of one day. That's like max of $15 in tolls per vehicle. They're paying us $22 an hour. So all they need to make it back in tolls is help us to be more efficient every day, cut overtime to nothing, and they'll make most of the money back, if not more.

Instead, they are going to reinvent the ENTIRE distribution network, and letting go some of the senior drivers who are arguably the most efficient in the fleet (I deliver up to 18 boxes per hour, industry average is 10)

They didn't count on implementation costs, morale costs, and more. Sure, some of the aspects of delivery can be better. Driving 1 hour each way to delivery city is PITA. But that's part of the cost.

What's more, they will be expecting the "local" drivers to be delivering even MORE boxes. Right now, I can deliver 75-80 boxes within 8 hour work day, even with 1 hour travel each way (i.e. I average 12-15 boxes per hour, even with breaks and lunch). If the local drivers don't have to drive 1 hour to delivery area, they'd be expected to deliver even MORE boxes, or never get paid for full 8 hour day. AND they'll be expected to load their own boxes into the vans. Right now, the warehouse staff load the vans. With the local hub model, the truck driver may be expected to pitch in, but he's not going to load half dozen vans by himself. The van drivers will be loading their own vans, and that'll get them tired driving. The model sounds interesting, but it has plenty of risks that the new execs seem to have blinders to.

But the most damning aspect of this layoff was they claim "I didn't sign up" when it was explained to us that "you sign up if you want to be based in a different city". I live in San Francisco, so I don't see a reason to sign up for anything. Then they said they emailed us, yet the email was also about a signup in a different city (supposedly there's a form choice in there where I could have picked San Francisco) but several other drivers I talked to also said they chose San Francisco multiple times, and got laid off anyway.

But whatever. I'm sending out resume again. Thanks for a place to rant.

I'm flying to Knoxville for an interview at UT Medical Center Friday.

Xmann wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 3:34 pm I'm flying to Knoxville for an interview at UT Medical Center Friday.

Good luck! Make sure you take some time for yourself and visit the Wigssphere while you're there!

Had a phone interview today and let the interviewer know that their pre-employment question regarding salary will be illegal soon in our state, and she disputed that saying that they were still discussing it. It was signed in to law early April and will take effect in August. No debate left there.

I look forward to having this question dropped as it's easily the most uncomfortable part of any interview. It feels like they're bluntly trying to establish the lowest baseline for your employment, which is a terrible way to start a relationship with an employee. I've never answered it honestly. They have no way to confirm - or at least, I've never had an employer try to confirm it.

This is the last interview I've had where I'll warn a potential employer, though, and will just start referring companies to the department of labor after August when they ask. I expect every other interviewer will want to disagree with me. I don't want to come across as a whistle-blowing jerk when I'm trying to get the job, but I'll be damned if I'll let them play with a broken rule book either.

I would not mind the question so much if the employer is open regarding the salary range of the position. The legitimate reason is so they don't have to have to waste time interviewing someone currently making six figures for a $50,000 job. Illegitimately, though, they can do the converse and offer someone who seems qualified but underpaid a minor increase, say offering $55K to someone making $50K for a job budgeted at $100K.

I've had interviews and job offers before where the final punchline was just way too low - not even in the realm of negotiation. Those are disappointing too since usually to get to the point of an offer, you've established some affinity with the people you've been interviewing with.

If things don't work out for anyone, you can come down to Texas this fall and start being a plumber.

What the legislature seems to have done, according to the Texas Tribune, is abolish the Texas State Board of Plumbing Examiners, which is currently responsible for licensing plumbers and enforcing the state plumbing code. Or, at least, it failed to reauthorize the thing. Under a “sunset” law, the board dissolves automatically on September 1 unless the legislature takes action. But that didn’t happen. It looks like the legislature had no intention of doing so anyway, because it had a bill ready to go (Senate Bill 621) providing that the board’s functions would be transferred to the larger Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation on September 1, when the sunset provision takes effect. So one way or another, the legislature apparently planned to get rid of the TSBPE for good.

Okay, fine—except that it then failed to pass SB 621, or a backup “safety net” bill that protects agencies otherwise threatened by the sunset provision. And the legislative session has now ended. So as of September 1, there will be no entity responsible for licensing plumbers and enforcing the state plumbing code, although that last part won’t matter because the code also expires automatically on September 1. So isn’t that the legislature just made everyone in Texas a licensed plumber, it’s that now anybody can legally do plumbing work in Texas without a license.

Had a second interview Tuesday for an IT position with my local city government. It would cut my commute from 45 minutes to 10 and come with about a 50% pay bump.

The first interview went really well and I nailed the technical questions but I was a little concerned because I have no experience with the network hardware they use (Juniper switches). The second interview was with the director of IT, an HR rep and a few other technical department leads but none of the questions were technical. I guess that means they're satisfied with my technical skills?

Now I wait to hear back.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 12:51 pmI've had interviews and job offers before where the final punchline was just way too low - not even in the realm of negotiation.

I have one that I'll never forget. The business was seeking a Senior Security & Network Engineer to supervise the IT Department. The number I had in my head given all their stipulations, factoring in cost of living in the area, was about $70,000. I caught the Director I was interviewing with before he could ask me what I was looking for and asked him what they had in mind for the salary first. Their number? $36,000 ... I was making a shitload more than that with a lesser title already. It was all I could do to not laugh and finish the interview with a straight face. I later poked the job on LinkedIn and found they had hired a fresh college grad with 6 months of Help Desk experience.

Paingod wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 3:07 pm

Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 12:51 pmI've had interviews and job offers before where the final punchline was just way too low - not even in the realm of negotiation.

I have one that I'll never forget. The business was seeking a Senior Security & Network Engineer to supervise the IT Department. The number I had in my head given all their stipulations, factoring in cost of living in the area, was about $70,000. I caught the Director I was interviewing with before he could ask me what I was looking for and asked him what they had in mind for the salary first. Their number? $36,000 ... I was making a shitload more than that with a lesser title already. It was all I could do to not laugh and finish the interview with a straight face. I later poked the job on LinkedIn and found they had hired a fresh college grad with 6 months of Help Desk experience.

This is why most larger organizations have salary ranges. Directors make between $X and $Y. Analysts make between $A and $B. And so on. So yeah, there's room and plenty of incentives available but no department could stick kid fresh out of college in a $120K position and pay him $40K and pocket the rest in their budget.

Paingod wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 3:07 pm

Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 12:51 pmI've had interviews and job offers before where the final punchline was just way too low - not even in the realm of negotiation.

I have one that I'll never forget. The business was seeking a Senior Security & Network Engineer to supervise the IT Department. The number I had in my head given all their stipulations, factoring in cost of living in the area, was about $70,000. I caught the Director I was interviewing with before he could ask me what I was looking for and asked him what they had in mind for the salary first. Their number? $36,000 ... I was making a shitload more than that with a lesser title already. It was all I could do to not laugh and finish the interview with a straight face. I later poked the job on LinkedIn and found they had hired a fresh college grad with 6 months of Help Desk experience.

That's example A of why I fear change and just want to get to retirement. If $36,000 is for senior... security.... network engineer... supervisor. What are they paying the people being supervised? So now I'm getting paid next to nothing for to have and use the skill set to keep you secure with all the responsibility that entails and at the same time I have to run a staff of people to implement that which I am accountable for for what I assume is considerably less than $36,000 a year.

Also, ditto on the wage and wage hunt but title don't mean shit. You can keep it. I am accountable and have the experience for the stress that fits my wage and takes its toll on my health.

You can supervise at most restaurants and many retail joints for without the technical skillset or weight of security accountability for more than $36,000 in just about any part of the country, can't you?

Teaching salaries are crazy but it is nice that you always know what you are going to get prior to the interview (with a minor exception for some private schools).

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 3:17 pm

Paingod wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 3:07 pm

Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 12:51 pmI've had interviews and job offers before where the final punchline was just way too low - not even in the realm of negotiation.

I have one that I'll never forget. The business was seeking a Senior Security & Network Engineer to supervise the IT Department. The number I had in my head given all their stipulations, factoring in cost of living in the area, was about $70,000. I caught the Director I was interviewing with before he could ask me what I was looking for and asked him what they had in mind for the salary first. Their number? $36,000 ... I was making a shitload more than that with a lesser title already. It was all I could do to not laugh and finish the interview with a straight face. I later poked the job on LinkedIn and found they had hired a fresh college grad with 6 months of Help Desk experience.

This is why most larger organizations have salary ranges. Directors make between $X and $Y. Analysts make between $A and $B. And so on. So yeah, there's room and plenty of incentives available but no department could stick kid fresh out of college in a $120K position and pay him $40K and pocket the rest in their budget.

That's not quite what I'm getting at. The company I work for gives 1% annual raises, period, and that has not changed in the almost 9 years I've been here. The only significant bump was through promotion. So let's assume that at the time of promotion, my salary was average market value. Overall market wages have gone up slightly more than 3% per year. Say my salary after promotion was $100,000 (not my real salary). At my company rate, after 5 years it would be $105,000 and some change. At the general market rate of increase, I might have expected to be at $116,000 were I elsewhere. $11,000 is a large gap. The company may expect they would pay 10% more to lure an experienced me to their company; a position therefor with a budget of $127,500 might get a deal on me for $115,000 all because they know I've been underpaid for so long.

Madmarcus wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 7:45 pm Teaching salaries are crazy but it is nice that you always know what you are going to get prior to the interview (with a minor exception for some private schools).

Same with the federal government.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 12:05 pmafter 5 years it would be ... a large gap.

This is a problem I've run into over and over. It's rare for a business to keep their employees at a rate (over time) that makes them want to stay. Every employer I've had so far has been quite happy to pay me as little as they thought they could get away with, often to the point where I simply leave in order to get the pay I've been asking for. Every substantial pay raise I've gotten in order to stay close to the market value for my experience and skill has come by jumping ship and taking myself elsewhere.

Up or out.

It really depends on the employer. Microsoft is really focused on retention. I've gotten spontaneous raises twice now of over $10,000 when the company decided we were being paid under industry average and didn't want us looking at moving on. That's the exception not the rule, though.

gbasden wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 1:09 pm It really depends on the employer. Microsoft is really focused on retention. I've gotten spontaneous raises twice now of over $10,000 when the company decided we were being paid under industry average and didn't want us looking at moving on. That's the exception not the rule, though.

I experienced this sort of thing exactly once in my career. With the sudden departure of the network manager for a civil engineering company I worked for, I suddenly found myself as the only skilled Novell person on staff at a time when the company had 105 locations around the country all using Netware servers and Groupwise post offices for enterprise messaging. I was getting double digit raises several times per year when everyone else was averaging around 3% once per year. I failed to appreciate the threat posed by a 23-year old Master CNE who filled a vacancy and considering his age, was probably earning half what I was, and that proved to be the end of things there.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 2:29 pm

gbasden wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 1:09 pm It really depends on the employer. Microsoft is really focused on retention. I've gotten spontaneous raises twice now of over $10,000 when the company decided we were being paid under industry average and didn't want us looking at moving on. That's the exception not the rule, though.

I experienced this sort of thing exactly once in my career.

I once triggered this. I asked for a reasonable raise for the position and responsibility I had. When the general manager denied my raise and added that I would have been fired if I asked the owner for it (who I had directly reported to for 5 years before the GM came on board), I made it my mission to bail ASAP. I turned in my notice a couple weeks later - no, sorry, there's nothing you can do to get me to stay; I tried and you refused. I heard that after my departure there were a round of raises for senior people they felt were most valuable.

Been working without a contract (union) for over a year now and a few weeks ago a tentative agreement was reached. I felt bad voting against it because I know how hard they worked on it, but it's crap. This gig work is for the birds, and while I'm ok with the arrangement, I coudn't in good conscience approve something that further stratified my part-time gig peers and resulted in a nonsense compensation package. I'm hoping after we move I can transition back into part-time work. The "pracademic" stuff meshes with my current schedule, but it's very much a dead end and the nights and weekends I've spent working is staring to feel like commuting might be less time.

Paingod wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 3:12 pm

Jeff V wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 2:29 pm

gbasden wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 1:09 pm It really depends on the employer. Microsoft is really focused on retention. I've gotten spontaneous raises twice now of over $10,000 when the company decided we were being paid under industry average and didn't want us looking at moving on. That's the exception not the rule, though.

I experienced this sort of thing exactly once in my career.

I once triggered this. I asked for a reasonable raise for the position and responsibility I had. When the general manager denied my raise and added that I would have been fired if I asked the owner for it (who I had directly reported to for 5 years before the GM came on board), I made it my mission to bail ASAP. I turned in my notice a couple weeks later - no, sorry, there's nothing you can do to get me to stay; I tried and you refused. I heard that after my departure there were a round of raises for senior people they felt were most valuable.

The sequence for me started when I had to get a new car, and happened to get one that was over-reaching my budget a tad. It's the only time I ever walked into a bosses office and asked for a raise outright. I told my immediate supervisor (the soon-to-be-leaving network manager) I was going to do this and he suggested I wait until afternoon. I had an inkling of why, but I did want it to appear I was taking advantage of the situation. Anyway, after I talked to the CIO, I got a "I feel for you, sorry, nothing I can do, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out." Later that afternoon, the tune suddenly changed to "hold tight, we can work something out."

Rather strangely, I've been informed, via phone, that I was "rehired" as of last Thursday.

They put me through an emotional wringer for NOTHING! NOTHING!!!!!

Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:34 pm Rather strangely, I've been informed, via phone, that I was "rehired" as of last Thursday.

They put me through an emotional wringer for NOTHING! NOTHING!!!!!

Man, that is good news for the job front, but that company does not value people to do that to you.

Took about a month off from the overtime list o recoup a little. Got back on in time for vacation to hit and some retirement for senior carriers. I figure 60+ hours for the rest of the summer through September, then 65+ through end of November. Peak season hits December first. This year, I will be working every Sunday in December. I have $33,300 left on the mortgage. Let's see how far I can burn it down to in the next six months...

I just want out of the businesses I'm involved in, but it would be impo$$ible. Maybe I'll win the lottery.

I'm being scheduled for another in-person interview; this time with a 3000+ user environment that's looking for an IT Manager who'd report to the Technical Director (I assume they run different divisions for each branch of the businesses' tech needs). All of the desktop support and phone systems would be under my heading.

When I applied for the job I had just gotten done reading through a half dozen jobs online and had my wires crossed as I applied for two of them. The salary request I submitted, while not terrible, is not what I would have thought appropriate for a business that large and a role with that much responsibility. It would be on the low side of tolerable, but nothing that would make me excited to jump ship here and go there.

After my last near-miss with a place I was genuinely excited to get into ... this feels pretty hollow. I find myself reminded of a recruiter I worked with years ago that advised me to go in to interviews hungry (for the job), but not starving; eager, but not off-putting. I feel like I'd be going into this interview as a technical exercise in reviewing. Just keeping my interviewing persona honed with no great expectations.

They'll probably give me a job offer.

I was just pulled into the office and offered a dispatcher position. Don't know if it comes with a pay increase, but my joints are getting a bit tired of jumping in and out of vehicles all day. It's not a done deal yet, and I'll probably also have to do with a bunch of other **** like help optimize the delivery routing. Don't know if I have to do all hubs, or just San Francisco hub (probably all hubs), but they seriously need help. Our warehouse lead (the person who coordinates loading of vans with warehouse staff) quit a couple weeks back and our shipping supervisor is tied up with the "high level" stuff, leaving the position to be filled by the dispatcher, but while he does that, he can't dispatch or deal with other stuff. And our backup dispatcher is out as his wife just gave birth yesterday. This reversal of fortune (from being laid off to possible promotion to desk job) is a bit of shock.

How is routing not handled by AI? That's the kind of problem it's good at.

AIs cost money.

Microsoft has one. Oh, and it provides San Francisco as a test run. As long as y ou want to get to 22 Broderick Street, you're golden.

We use OnFleet, which claims to already optimize routes. But it apparently is not optimizing for delivery windows (we have 3 delivery windows per day, 12-8, 12-4, 4-8) and we're going for no lates and preferably no earlies, but obviously that's dependent on start time, local traffic conditions, local road and delivery type, and so on.

In a way, I do see the problem: If you do ONLY 12-4 first, your route may go all over the place and make big circles, only to come back to the same area later doing other time windows. But if you ignore the time window, then you get lates and earlies while optimizing the mileage. So you have to update the route algorithm based on the "running total" to make sure the 12-4 window is all covered, then start inserting the 12-8 window and optimize on that. If that is okay, then add the 4-8 window and reoptimize without affecting the 12-4 window. It's messy.

I am a senior (experience, not age you jerks) individual contributer (in other words, not management) on a tech team. A couple weeks back I told my boss I wanted to move to a different department because I didn't like how the work was being handled and the way the team was being run. We had some extended discussions about other opportunities for me in the department and what was wrong with the team. Next month I take over running the team. That did not turn out how I had expected. I had been thinking about making the jump to leadership for a while, but didn't expect it to fall right into my lap. This could be... interesting.

Congrats!

Good luck! Making the jump from minion to manager while staying on the same team is a bigger challenge than moving to management elsewhere. Be careful of the disgruntled and do what you can to avoid them becoming cancerous.

Congrats! Or Condolences. Haven't you said you are horrible with people?

Jeff V wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:30 am Good luck! Making the jump from minion to manager while staying on the same team is a bigger challenge than moving to management elsewhere. Be careful of the disgruntled and do what you can to avoid them becoming cancerous.

I don't expect it to be a problem on this specific team, I was sort of leader in spirit anyway. I am two levels higher than the rest of the team and have worked here about 15 years longer than any of them.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:32 am Congrats! Or Condolences. Haven't you said you are horrible with people?

Horrible might be an exaggeration. Isgrimnur still talks to me and some years I may see him 5 or 6 times (though 3 of those times are generally in the same week)! I've also managed to stay married for 20 years. What I don't really do well is empathy and my social anxiety can be challenging. We'll see how that works out.

Hi. I am no longer coop. I run from anything approaching management at every opportunity.

coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:50 am

Jeff V wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:30 am Good luck! Making the jump from minion to manager while staying on the same team is a bigger challenge than moving to management elsewhere. Be careful of the disgruntled and do what you can to avoid them becoming cancerous.

I don't expect it to be a problem on this specific team, I was sort of leader in spirit anyway. I am two levels higher than the rest of the team and have worked here about 15 years longer than any of them.

That's good to hear. The first time I made the jump, I had to promote my biggest problem child to my assistant. When I applied for the promotion to the job I had now, it was because of encouragement from fellow peers, most which were well aware I was there through acquisition where I went from a regional manager with powers everywhere east of the Mississippi to a common (albeit high level) tech.

Accepted a position in Knoxville, we'll be moving in a month.

Love Colorado but a move closer to family and back to the south was important to us.

Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:34 pm Rather strangely, I've been informed, via phone, that I was "rehired" as of last Thursday.

They put me through an emotional wringer for NOTHING! NOTHING!!!!!

Something similar happened to me once. I was layed off on a Friday. My manager was pissed and called me back that night and said he was going to get me my job back. A couple of days later I get a call saying that I've been rehired. Although, technically, it went down in the books that I was never let go in the first place. They paid me for the entire week I was gone.

Still, my motivation plummeted after that. I had been busting my butt trying to finish a project ahead of schedule and under budget. It was a huge success and I was planning on asking for a raise, but the lay offs happened before I had a chance. After I was brought back I just didn't care. I did the bare minimum, and left the company within a year.

Xmann wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:58 pm Accepted a position in Knoxville, we'll be moving in a month.

Love Colorado but a move closer to family and back to the south was important to us.

Congrats! Too bad on the move part, but hey family.

I've been teased with the possibility of moving to Dispatcher, as our warehouse coordinator left,and our Dispatcher is taking over. Our backup Dispatcher went on paternity leave after baby born but instead of start my training, they brought in someone from Seattle. This company seems to enjoy teasing its employees.