Octopus Overlords

Posted: **Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:34 am**

I'm with you on pretty much everything you just wrote.

But at least Discovery had a great season that captured the soul of Star Trek (exploration, the needs of the many outweighing Spock, the importance of trying to find common ground with your enemies, etc.). I really think it's become a worthy successor to TOS and TNG.

Posted: **Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:49 pm**

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:57 am ugh, I hated Picard episode 3.

Spoiler:
YMMV but I've never loved the "Star Trek characters time travel back to the present day" stories. It's inevitably a bunch of dumb jokes + characters being out of place + high minded and vague moralizing, plus it feels more like fan fiction than actual Star Trek. And here traveling back to 2024 United States as a pivot about having a fascist future or not, PLUS including an illegal immigration subplot, I mean... I generally support the politics here, but god damn is this all heavy handed. At this point I wouldn't be shocked if the pivotal timeline event here turns out to be whether Trump gets elected again or not.

Like, can we have some exploration of space at some point?
We'll see, but I'm not totally sure that I'll finish the season at this point.

Spoiler:

Posted: **Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:05 pm**

Sudy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:49 pm
Spoiler:
But I still find it more palatable than, say, Discovery's feelings-fests.

I would be happier if e.g. the immigration stuff was done with a lighter touch as I'm concerned it becomes too polarizing otherwise. On the other hand, some of this stuff has become so overt in the real world that perhaps it doesn't matter.

We seem to have (at least) two very different camps of fans here. Discovery is honestly the show I'm having trouble finishing this season. I'm trying to have an open mind and I'm happy hepcat et al. are enjoying it, but it's nowhere near classic Trek for me.

Yeah, we definitely are polar opposites as I completely disagree with pretty much everything you wrote.

What surprised me was your complaint that Discovery was too much of a “feelings fest” after initially complaining it was too much of an action show earlier. Which is funny as Picard has turned into an Abram’s like Star Trek, while Discovery has embraced classic Trek in theme and execution.

Posted: **Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:24 pm**

Yes, action and feelings. The two components of each Discovery episode lol. I evidently need to stop watching these shows while high on grass... perhaps I'm not getting an accurate read.

Unfortunately, I think both of these shows are firmly implanted in the post-Abrams-verse in terms of execution, though occasionally they surprise me.

Posted: **Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:31 pm**

Sudy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:24 pm Yes, action and feelings. The two components of each Discovery episode lol.

Well, I’m heartened to read you now agree that Discovery is more like classic Trek, at least.

Posted: **Sat Mar 19, 2022 2:40 pm**

Sudy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:24 pm Unfortunately, I think both of these shows are firmly implanted in the post-Abrams-verse in terms of execution, though occasionally they surprise me.

Execution is a big one for me, and I'm still not convinced the cinematic format is the best fit for a Trek series. That's why I'm looking forward to Strange New Worlds. At the very least, they'll be able to explore different themes and explore characters from different angles.

Posted: **Tue Mar 22, 2022 10:23 pm**

Been watching videos all day. Species 10-C is amazing! Finally a species that isn't a human with a headbone somewhere. A Class 2 extra galactic civilization and they pulled it off so well. I should watch this now. Just have YT clips to piece it all together. Carl Sagan would be proud.

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:52 am**

Picard S02E04:

Spoiler:

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2022 7:24 am**

Way too heavy handed and simplistic on the political messaging. Also find it lazy that the writers returned to the Guinan in the past device.

This is basically just one giant Abram’s level Stat Trek show at this point. It can be fun, but if you want something closer to classic Trek, Discovery is much, much better.

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:15 am**

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:40 am**

For that time period, that was positively ground breaking....and much more subtle than what Picard is doing right now, believe it or not.

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:56 pm**

I haven't caught up on the current season. It's a family show, and we're currently finishing up Lost in Space. But as long as it isn't as bad as Supergirl, which had all the nuance of an afterschool special.

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:03 pm**

I mean, Supergirl IS a CW show. What were you expecting?

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:18 pm**

hepcat wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:03 pm I mean, Supergirl IS a CW show. What were you expecting?

Yes. Yes it was. They all get like that to some degree, but Supergirl was easily the worst of them. I almost expected her to swoop down before the credits and tell everybody what the lesson of the day was. Batwoman is getting almost as bad sometimes. But Black Lightning managed to do it without the heavy handedness, and Superman & Lois has so far, too.

Any, I digress. Back to the Star Trek. Has Picard done space hippies yet? Picard is such a Herbert.

Posted: **Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:28 pm**

I just like watching Spock’s jam session on that episode.

Posted: **Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:13 pm**

Picard S02E05:

Spoiler:

Posted: **Thu Mar 31, 2022 7:04 pm**

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:18 pm
hepcat wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:03 pm I mean, Supergirl IS a CW show. What were you expecting?
Yes. Yes it was. They all get like that to some degree, but Supergirl was easily the worst of them. I almost expected her to swoop down before the credits and tell everybody what the lesson of the day was. Batwoman is getting almost as bad sometimes. But Black Lightning managed to do it without the heavy handedness, and Superman & Lois has so far, too.

Frankly, Supergirl was much better in its first few seasons when it was on CBS before it moved to the CW. Once it went to the CW, it became heavy handed.

Posted: **Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:22 pm**

On the 5th of this month, Paramount + is premiering the new Director’s edition of Star Trek the Motion Picture. Sounds like a lot of work went into it.. I’ll definitely be watching. As a kid, it was an event for my friends and I.

Spoiler:

Posted: **Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:17 pm**

Sudy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:52 am Picard S02E04:

Spoiler:
- Going back to episode 3 for a second, one thing that did seem insincere was Raffi's relationship with Elnor. As Red Letter Media pointed out, all the development seemed to happen off screen, between seasons? I do recall from season one that Raffi is estranged from her own son I believe, so the underlying motivation makes sense.
- That was really Kirk Thatcher on the bus in the Star Trek IV throwback scene! I thought it was kind of silly, but it was also great.
- I'm surprised they chose to recast younger Guinan. I wish they'd have used Goldberg in both time periods and just ignored her real-world aging. Also, that a version of 10 Forward existed some 300 years before TNG is just stupid. You're telling me Guinan sought a position on the Enterprise D just so she could preserve the name of her bar?
- The borg queen is a little smarmy for me. Parts of the storyline are interesting, but it's a little silly.

I'm still enjoying it. Yeah, the social messages aren't the least bit nuanced, but I can excuse it. This isn't classic Trek, but I find it fun.

I'm a little late to this one, but I loved it. Lots of humor, and overall quite a fun episode. It's not perfect, no, but I found it quite endearing. I like that there are lighthearted moments throughout.

Posted: **Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:31 pm**

hepcat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:22 pm On the 5th of this month, Paramount + is premiering the new Director’s edition of Star Trek the Motion Picture. Sounds like a lot of work went into it.. I’ll definitely be watching. As a kid, it was an event for my friends and I.

Spoiler:

Anything would be an improvement. Ive always disliked it. Its also always last on my ranking of ST movies. BUT I saw this after seeing all the others. I might not have seen ST6 yet. But this was a rental from a video store as I missed the original theater release. So theres no way it could hold up to the others. Its was weird, boring, LOoooong which made it seem even more boring. In fact on rental I hated it. Was glad to return it.

But I think if Id looked at it as one long episode and ignored the movies Id seen past it I think I would have enjoyed it. At least more than I did. And at that time I was HUGE HUGE trekkie.

Posted: **Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:13 pm**

Star Trek Picard on who will be in the cast this season.....

Spoiler:

Posted: **Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:56 pm**

Christ…Picard just gets worse and worse

Spoiler:

I think the worst thing about it though is that it doesn’t even feel like a Star Trek show at this point.

Posted: **Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:43 am**

Thought the Picard crowd might enjoy this. I DO NOT KNOW if there are spoilers in this so beware. Most likely are.

Posted: **Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:29 pm**

hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:56 pm
I think the worst thing about it though is that it doesn’t even feel like a Star Trek show at this point.

Who cares! It’s all about Season 3 now

Posted: **Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:51 pm**

Regarding episode 6, just getting to this now. And yikes, I agree it didn't feel much like Trek.

Spoiler:

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:23 am**

Posted: **Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:22 pm**

Posted: **Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:15 pm**

Finally forced myself to watch the last couple episodes of Picard.

I wish they’d just put this (and us) out of our misery and cancel season 3. This is Zack Snyder’s version of Star Trek.

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:27 am**

Yeah, I have to admit, I enjoyed myself with the first half of the season, but it's as if they're trying their hardest to not be Star Trek. I have to wonder if it's a budgetary reason in shooting in LA streets and all. But all these situations they find themselves are getting increasingly non-trek territory. And the whole Jurari/Borg Queen storyline feels so tacked on. It's as if the producers said, "We've got to have some hint of Star Trek in there. How about the Borg Queen taking control of Jurati. " She's the weakest link. Just an awful character that stands around most of the time doing nothing. The Jurati/Borg Queen storyline just ends up being a little too odd as a result. The feeling I get from Picard, and this started way back in Season 1, but is feeling reinforced in Season 2, is that it's a massive missed opportunity of a series that could explore the consequences from both the events of Nemesis and the 2009 movie/Romulus destruction seeing as we hadn't seen Picard or the 24th century since those events. But aside from a few throwaway lines, it doesn't seem interested in any intellectual exploration. It just seems interested in a bulletpoint list of things to tick off, and it's incredibly shallow. The most Trek-like thing this season was the brief glimpse of the new Starship in the first episode. And they use the same tired trope of visiting someone's mind twice this season. It's enough to make me wonder what the point of it all is, and not in a good way.

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:50 am**

It's just so bleak and hopeless. This isn't Star Trek anymore. It's a depressing examination of how awful people are. That is decidedly anti-Star Trek.

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:13 am**

That essentially the whole season is set in 2024 United States is certainly part of what I dislike about the season, since the whole season doesn't have any, you know, Stars, and fairly minimal Trekking. But honestly the main thing that I hate about it is that the writing is just so stupid. Sure, Jurati has to do a musical number to save the crew, but oh wait that singing gave the secret Borg Queen inside her head just the opportunity to take over her mind! But the Borg Queen has to randomly shatter some restaurant's window in order to keep control! Oh, and to gain the ability to assimilate the Borg Queen has to eat f'ing car batteries that would annihilate Jurati's body but somehow doesn't.

I mean...sure, that all might as well happen. I will say that I am winding up enjoying this season in kind of a hate watch fashion, plus I'm enjoying watching youtube videos after each episode ruthlessly mocking how stupid it is.

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:16 am**

@El Guapo - you just nailed what I was trying to internalize. It's just so, so dumb. I can't help but make a parallel to the first JJ Abrams Star Trek movie. I had an employee who loved it (I liked it too) but something rubbed me wrong about it. We got to talking about it in depth one day at lunch and we realized something. When you think about the plot of it...it makes no sense. The chain of events is a series on disconnected choices that are unworkable but used to 'build the Enterprise crew' from individuals. The dumbest plot sequence of these I can refer to is that Kirk gets marooned for no reason that makes any sort of sense but that is how he finds Scotty. It's just nonsense plotting but it mostly works. This is nonsense plotting and it doesn't work.

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:23 am**

My favorite bit is found in the episode before last.

Spoiler:

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:25 am**

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:16 am @El Guapo - you just nailed what I was trying to internalize. It's just so, so dumb. I can't help but make a parallel to the first JJ Abrams Star Trek movie. I had an employee who loved it (I liked it too) but something rubbed me wrong about it. We got to talking about it in depth one day at lunch and we realized something. When you think about the plot of it...it makes no sense. The chain of events is a series on disconnected choices that are unworkable but used to 'build the Enterprise crew' from individuals. The dumbest plot sequence of these I can refer to is that Kirk gets marooned for no reason that makes any sort of sense but that is how he finds Scotty. It's just nonsense plotting but it mostly works. This is nonsense plotting and it doesn't work.

Yeah, I agree with that. The Abrams Trek movies are really pretty dumb in terms of plot but they do have the benefit of being well executed and well acted enough that if you don't think about the plot they're pretty entertaining. This season lacks that and so is just kind of a mess.

Also I watched a preview of the next episode and I already LOL'd at a stupid plot point in just a 1.5 minute preview!

Spoiler:

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:31 am**

To be fair, they sort of set the bar in the first episode right from the get go. I remember it distinctly. IIRC it correctly, season 2 opened on crew members riding the turbolift to the bridge for a battle. The best way they thought they could convey the risk to the audience beyond the EXPLOSIONS AND SHAKY CAM was the computer saying something like 'Ship Systems Rebooting'. I said to my wife that she should be aware that the way I'm going to announce unactionable, non-specific dire trouble at home in the future is yell out House Systems Rebooting.

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:36 am**

What's frustrating to me is that they started off with an interesting premise. Could the Borg change and join the Federation. The inference I was getting in the first episode was that the Borg had encountered something that frightened even them and they were forced to look for allies. That could be enough to shake up a civilization to the point where they may change. And that was where I was hoping it was going. But instead of that, we got Back to the Future IV with Picard as Marty McFly and Dr. Soong as a ludicrously homicidal Biff Tannen.

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:48 am**

Also it's great to see John de Lancie again as Q, and he's great at it, but the way that they're using him is completely baffling. Like they kind of set it up in episode 1 / 2 where this is another of Q's tests, which is in line with what he does, but since then it's seems like it's changed where this isn't a test but Q is an outright adversary, who is acting because he's vaguely dying, and so doing this because...death related reasons? Or something?

Plus he lost his powers for no discernable reason. But then, what's the point of having Q around without any powers? And like without any powers how is he doing all this shit in the past, like getting into FBI offices in FBI gear?

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:52 am**

I also find it humorous that a group of super beings held peace talks a long time ago that ended up with a genie bottle for future communication.

....yeah, the dumb on this show is staggering when you hold it up to the light.

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:01 pm**

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:52 am I also find it humorous that a group of super beings held peace talks a long time ago that ended up with a genie bottle for future communication.

....yeah, the dumb on this show is staggering when you hold it up to the light.

Right. So I just did a sanity check and looked up the showrunner for this and it's Akiva Goldsman. Responsible for screenwriting Batman Forever, Batman & Robin, I am Legend, I, Robot, the DaVinci Code movies. Guess that explains all of this.

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:10 pm**

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:01 pm
hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:52 am I also find it humorous that a group of super beings held peace talks a long time ago that ended up with a genie bottle for future communication.

....yeah, the dumb on this show is staggering when you hold it up to the light.
Right. So I just did a sanity check and looked up the showrunner for this and it's Akiva Goldsman. Responsible for screenwriting Batman Forever, Batman & Robin, I am Legend, I, Robot, the DaVinci Code movies. Guess that explains all of this.

Also the showrunner for ST: Discovery, though. Which certainly has its whoppers at times (honestly the whole myceleal network thing is a little dumb, and the big resolution at the end of season 1 was incredibly stupid) but overall it's just a lot smarter and better done. Makes me think he's less involved in that one?

Octopus Overlords

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