That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons bring us some web forums whereupon we can gather
http://garbi.online/forum/
I laugh at your confidence that the chipping away at your democracy will stop, eventually. Why would you accept the diminishing of ANY of your democracy? It's ok if it gets damaged, it'll never die? For a country that is less than 250 years old, you sure have a lot of confidence that history suggests is not warranted.Rip wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:22 pm The suggestion that our democracy can't survive Trump is laughable.
I don't disagree that what Trump is doing is bad for the country. But your penchant for "the sky is falling" hyperbole when it comes to this particular subforum makes it hard to take your predictions seriously.Fireball wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:19 pmIf you can't see how our institutions are crumbling, and how the very concept of rule of law as it pertains to the executive branch is at risk of collapsing, then you are blind. There is no reason to think that our governmental system can survive the presidency of a person like Trump, particularly when the Republican Party has gone all-in on his democracy-eroding agenda. No other presidential system ever has.pr0ner wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:53 pmIs there ever a time when things don't default to doom and gloom for you?Fireball wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:14 pmI wish I was. My job is basically just a front row seat to the end of American democracy. If we don't see control of the House change in November, America is over.Zarathud wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:08 pmHow do we help curb them? Seriously glad you're there trying to stem the bleeding.Fireball wrote:It is increasingly unlikely that everything will be okay.
Trump is killing American democracy, and the Republicans are fine with it.
.Rip wrote:[
Baloney. There is no voter suppression. Gerrymandering has been around since 1812. There isn't and never will be a state media. All of these things are ridiculous.
How is the judiciary being obstructed? It isn't operated any different than it has ever been.
How do you reject the popular vote? Popular vote been the measure of winning the POTUS so there is nothing to reject.
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp ... uppression
Does that invalidate that it combined with other factors might have the US in an existential crisis in 2018?Gerrymandering has been around since 1812.
https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+p ... s+briefingThere isn't and never will be a state media.
https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+c ... rump+comeyHow is the judiciary being obstructed?
I believe Rip is in the "BURN THE MF'ER DOWN" camp, are you not, Rip?GreenGoo wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:07 pmI laugh at your confidence that the chipping away at your democracy will stop, eventually. Why would you accept the diminishing of ANY of your democracy? It's ok if it gets damaged, it'll never die? For a country that is less than 250 years old, you sure have a lot of confidence that history suggests is not warranted.Rip wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:22 pm The suggestion that our democracy can't survive Trump is laughable.
If it helps, I would say that doom and gloom is fully appropriate here. Our democratic institutions are in real peril, and (like Fireball said) if democrats don't retake the House in 2018 there is a real danger of the United States sliding into autocracy.pr0ner wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:10 pmI don't disagree that what Trump is doing is bad for the country. But your penchant for "the sky is falling" hyperbole when it comes to this particular subforum makes it hard to take your predictions seriously.Fireball wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:19 pmIf you can't see how our institutions are crumbling, and how the very concept of rule of law as it pertains to the executive branch is at risk of collapsing, then you are blind. There is no reason to think that our governmental system can survive the presidency of a person like Trump, particularly when the Republican Party has gone all-in on his democracy-eroding agenda. No other presidential system ever has.pr0ner wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:53 pmIs there ever a time when things don't default to doom and gloom for you?Fireball wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:14 pmI wish I was. My job is basically just a front row seat to the end of American democracy. If we don't see control of the House change in November, America is over.Zarathud wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:08 pmHow do we help curb them? Seriously glad you're there trying to stem the bleeding.Fireball wrote:It is increasingly unlikely that everything will be okay.
Trump is killing American democracy, and the Republicans are fine with it.
Thirded. And woo, multiquote!El Guapo wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:18 pmIf it helps, I would say that doom and gloom is fully appropriate here. Our democratic institutions are in real peril, and (like Fireball said) if democrats don't retake the House in 2018 there is a real danger of the United States sliding into autocracy.pr0ner wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:10 pmI don't disagree that what Trump is doing is bad for the country. But your penchant for "the sky is falling" hyperbole when it comes to this particular subforum makes it hard to take your predictions seriously.Fireball wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:19 pmIf you can't see how our institutions are crumbling, and how the very concept of rule of law as it pertains to the executive branch is at risk of collapsing, then you are blind. There is no reason to think that our governmental system can survive the presidency of a person like Trump, particularly when the Republican Party has gone all-in on his democracy-eroding agenda. No other presidential system ever has.pr0ner wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:53 pmIs there ever a time when things don't default to doom and gloom for you?Fireball wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:14 pmI wish I was. My job is basically just a front row seat to the end of American democracy. If we don't see control of the House change in November, America is over.Zarathud wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:08 pmHow do we help curb them? Seriously glad you're there trying to stem the bleeding.Fireball wrote:It is increasingly unlikely that everything will be okay.
Trump is killing American democracy, and the Republicans are fine with it.
That's not what he says and that's pr0ner's whole point he saysEl Guapo wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:18 pm If it helps, I would say that doom and gloom is fully appropriate here. Our democratic institutions are in real peril, and (like Fireball said) if democrats don't retake the House in 2018 there is a real danger of the United States sliding into autocracy.
I wish I was. My job is basically just a front row seat to the end of American democracy. If we don't see control of the House change in November, America is over.
I agree that this might be our last chance to rescue competitive elections. If the R's manage to finesse control of the House despite D's getting significantly more votes overall, then it is already too late. If the R's manage to get more votes by suppressing D voter turnout and/or invalidating races where they won, then it is already too late. If the R's win fair and square...well, I wonder if "fair and square" is still a valid concept. I'll reserve judgment on that question.El Guapo wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:18 pmIf it helps, I would say that doom and gloom is fully appropriate here. Our democratic institutions are in real peril, and (like Fireball said) if democrats don't retake the House in 2018 there is a real danger of the United States sliding into autocracy.pr0ner wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:10 pmI don't disagree that what Trump is doing is bad for the country. But your penchant for "the sky is falling" hyperbole when it comes to this particular subforum makes it hard to take your predictions seriously.Fireball wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:19 pmIf you can't see how our institutions are crumbling, and how the very concept of rule of law as it pertains to the executive branch is at risk of collapsing, then you are blind. There is no reason to think that our governmental system can survive the presidency of a person like Trump, particularly when the Republican Party has gone all-in on his democracy-eroding agenda. No other presidential system ever has.pr0ner wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:53 pmIs there ever a time when things don't default to doom and gloom for you?Fireball wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:14 pmI wish I was. My job is basically just a front row seat to the end of American democracy. If we don't see control of the House change in November, America is over.Zarathud wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:08 pmHow do we help curb them? Seriously glad you're there trying to stem the bleeding.Fireball wrote:It is increasingly unlikely that everything will be okay.
Trump is killing American democracy, and the Republicans are fine with it.
Wrong.
And it's worse.Gerrymandering has been around since 1812.
Trump learning how to govern by Fox and Friends. Trump delegitimizing news with his Fake News awards. David Nunez setting up his own media outlet. While there currently isn't one, we've moved much closer to it than I would have ever thought possible.There isn't and never will be a state media.
Fixed that for you.None of these things are ridiculous.
Sitting on nominations for years is obstructing the judiciary. The Supreme Court obstruction was the final straw for me.How is the judiciary being obstructed? It isn't operated any different than it has ever been.
It's ok. I'm easy. And though I only participate in spurts,GreenGoo wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:59 pm Fitzy, I didn't mean to drag you back in. I'm not sure I knew you were out when I wrote mine.
Adams vs Jackson vs some other guys 1824.Combustible Lemur wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:10 pm W. And Trump are the only two presidents to my knowledge to have lost the popular vote. Both of which are in the modern version of gerrymandering.
CoolFitzy wrote:It's ok. I'm easy. And though I only participate in spurts,GreenGoo wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:59 pm Fitzy, I didn't mean to drag you back in. I'm not sure I knew you were out when I wrote mine.
I love you all.
/Group hug
Adams vs Jackson vs some other guys 1824.Combustible Lemur wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:10 pm W. And Trump are the only two presidents to my knowledge to have lost the popular vote. Both of which are in the modern version of gerrymandering.
That claim is equivalent to typing "Hi, my login is Rip and I am deeply ignorant."
Really? Name another time a SC seat was held up through sheer partisanship for over a year. Keeping congress "in session", refusing to discuss a nominee, both are very normal to you? Neither obstructs the judiciary to you? Hundreds of lower level federal seats treated the same so that in one year Trump has appointed how many times the number of judges that Obama appointed in 8?Rip wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:52 pm How is the judiciary being obstructed? It isn't operated any different than it has ever been.
I'm confused, because I think that is what Fireball said. The hyperbole I suppose is him saying "America is over", but clearly he doesn't mean that America will cease to be a country. But democracy is at the core of what America is (that was why it was founded, and not as an ethnic or religiously based state), so I take "America is over" to be about the end of democracy here.LordMortis wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:24 pmThat's not what he says and that's pr0ner's whole point he saysEl Guapo wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:18 pm If it helps, I would say that doom and gloom is fully appropriate here. Our democratic institutions are in real peril, and (like Fireball said) if democrats don't retake the House in 2018 there is a real danger of the United States sliding into autocracy.
I wish I was. My job is basically just a front row seat to the end of American democracy. If we don't see control of the House change in November, America is over.
No worries. Nothing like a good pile on!Remus West wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:25 pm I should finish threads before replying to pieces as Rip already had his ignorance pointed out repeatedly by others.
It isn't chipped away. We still vote as we wish and the winner is decided the same way it has always been. The chipping away of democracy is a fabricated illusion.GreenGoo wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:07 pmI laugh at your confidence that the chipping away at your democracy will stop, eventually. Why would you accept the diminishing of ANY of your democracy? It's ok if it gets damaged, it'll never die? For a country that is less than 250 years old, you sure have a lot of confidence that history suggests is not warranted.Rip wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:22 pm The suggestion that our democracy can't survive Trump is laughable.
I get it though, America is special and there is nothing that could divide a country of such like-minded individuals, let alone destroy it.
Imagine someone with the same motivations as Drumpf, but with a brain in their head and competent advisors.
All the fake news that's fit to printRip wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:31 pm It isn't chipped away. We still vote as we wish and the winner is decided the same way it has always been. The chipping away of democracy is a fabricated illusion.
https://twitter.com/AriBerman/status/795275999739056128Rip wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:31 pm
It isn't chipped away. We still vote as we wish and the winner is decided the same way it has always been. The chipping away of democracy is a fabricated illusion.
In that case Russia is equally as democratic. Possibly more so.Rip wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:31 pm
It isn't chipped away. We still vote as we wish and the winner is decided the same way it has always been. The chipping away of democracy is a fabricated illusion.
FTFYRip wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:31 pm It isn't chipped away. We I, as a middle to upper-class white man still vote as I wish and the winner is decided the same way it has always been. The chipping away of democracy is a fabricated illusion.
It sure is, which is what brought about Trump not because of him.Shadowcaster57 wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:50 pm Based on The Economist Intelligence Unit's Democracy Index, the United States is on a disturbingly downward trend. Classed in the Full Democracy tier at least between 2006-2015, the index scores for the last two years have dropped the United States into the Flawed Democracy tier.
https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphic ... y-chart-21
Although the report's publication comes shortly after the election of President Donald Trump, the EIU analysts write that the US was not downgraded because of him. Rather, they argue, his surprise election was an effect of the underlying causes that led the EIU to downgrade the US.
The US's overall "Democracy Index" score fell from 8.05 in 2015 to 7.98 in 2016 — just below the EIU's threshold of 8.00 for a "full democracy." The analysts write that a key factor in the drop was Americans' growing distrust in governmental institutions.
"Popular trust in government, elected representatives, and political parties has fallen to extremely low levels in the US. This has been a long-term trend and one that preceded the election of Mr. Trump as the US president in November 2016," they write.
"By tapping a deep strain of political disaffection with the functioning of democracy, Mr. Trump became a beneficiary of the low esteem in which US voters hold their government, elected representatives, and political parties, but he was not responsible for a problem that has had a long gestation."
Notably, they write that even if 2016 weren't an election year, the US's score would've dipped below 8.00.
"The thing that mainstream commentators said disqualified Mr Trump — his lack of political experience — was what qualified him in the view of so many who voted for him," the analysts wrote. "He appealed to the angry, anti-political mood of larges swathes of the electorate who feel that the two mainstream parties no longer speak for them."
As a reference point, other countries that qualify as "flawed democracies" and have similar scores on the EIU metrics as the US include Japan, Italy, France, South Korea, Israel, Estonia, India, and Chile.
As long as the wingnut spin machine is in effect, we could elect a Koch brother and if he had a D by his name he'd be labeled a RINO and used as an example of intrusive government.hepcat wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:42 pm Hopefully we’ll get a unifier when shithead bites it, gets impeached or just runs out his term. Of course the idiots who put him in office will probably vote for whoever is hosting their favorite show again when that time comes.
Tough to suss out all the factors but also consider a very selfish generation ascending and rebeling against having to face Vietnam.Holman wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:38 pm I'm sure it's merely coincidental that the Right has been mainstreaming "government is the enemy" since Goldwater.
Fixed that form you. The sheer self-ignorance that led you to post this is laughable, RIp.Rip wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:29 pmPeople should be wary of predicting catastrophic consequences of OBAMA. Once he is gone and life goes on as it always has those people will wish they had that credibility back. I predict that once he is gone these same people will have a new bogeyman that they will be convinced will destroy the country. They will be wrong then as well.
That is silly, I never once predicted that Obama or Clinton for that matter was going to destroy the democracy. Did I warn of damage they and their policies would cause? Sure, but suggesting that ANY president is going to destroy our democracy is ludicrous. They don't have that kind of power, thankfully.Zarathud wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:06 amFixed that form you. The sheer self-ignorance that led you to post this is laughable, RIp.Rip wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:29 pmPeople should be wary of predicting catastrophic consequences of OBAMA. Once he is gone and life goes on as it always has those people will wish they had that credibility back. I predict that once he is gone these same people will have a new bogeyman that they will be convinced will destroy the country. They will be wrong then as well.
In your fear that American was being ruined, your party elected Trump. You have no credibility after the last decade.
Er, trust in government has nothing to do with the quality of the democracy. None. Free, open, transparent, fair elections are what make for a high democracy score. Which of those is the US suffering the lack of, do you think?Rip wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:09 pm
It sure is, which is what brought about Trump not because of him.
GreenGoo wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:32 amEr, trust in government has nothing to do with the quality of the democracy. None. Free, open, transparent, fair elections are what make for a high democracy score. Which of those is the US suffering the lack of, do you think?Rip wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:09 pm
It sure is, which is what brought about Trump not because of him.
Drumpf is here because you're an idiot. Or an anarchist. Which is it?
Who do you think you're "teaching a lesson" to, exactly? People are literally pining for the return of Obama. Is that the effect you were looking for?
The US's overall "Democracy Index" score fell from 8.05 in 2015 to 7.98 in 2016 — just below the EIU's threshold of 8.00 for a "full democracy." The analysts write that a key factor in the drop was Americans' growing distrust in governmental institutions.
Remember that time when Rip was all upset when President Obama just made a signing statement? I'm pretty sure there were complaints about Obama's treaty negotiations, the IRS, Benghazi, Clinton's emails, and so on.Rip wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:47 pm Wow, Trump made Obama produce his birth certificate after so many I tried and failed. Just imagine what he could do as president. He would have oppressive dictators stepping down the world over. Finally someone would make those Iranians show us their nuke facilities. Heck I would imagine he would make OBL come out of hiding as well.
So quaint. And remember all those times when Rip "never" quoted Drudge?Rip wrote: Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:50 pm http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism ... nstitution
HAHAHA, they saw you guys coming.Although I have no idea what will happen tonight, based on the insane, anti-Constitutional, and un-American proposals being floated by the New York Times, Vox.com, and CNN, I do know what the media believe will happen: a historic shellacking is in store for Democrats and President Obama.
How else to explain why the New York Times wants to forever cancel the midterm election. You read that right, cancel them. Outright. According to the Times, midterm elections no longer make sense. The problem is that the midterm electorate "has been whiter, wealthier, older and more educated than during presidential elections."
Mind you, no one is stopping the non-white, non-old, or non-educated (i.e., Democrats) from voting in midterms. There is no law against Democrats voting (except for that pesky citizenship stuff). The only problem, according to our media overlords, is that voting every two years is something conservative-leaning voters are more willing to do than Democrats.
The answer to this hideous crisis, obviously, is to rewrite the Constitution so that voting is more convenient for Democrats -- meaning you only have to make that arduous journey to the polling place once every 4 years instead of 2. The way to do this is easy: Congressional terms become 4 years instead of 2, and Senate terms move from 6 to 4 or 8.
And…
Voila! Democracy is fixed.
And sadly, Trumpsters will believe every word he says, with zero regard for the fact it's a flat-out, blatant lie.President Donald Trump credited his policies for an announcement this week that General Motors would close an underperforming factory in South Korea in May.
But Trump, in remarks during a discussion on trade with South Korea, also asserted that the automaker would move "back from Korea to Detroit," a statement that does not reflect what GM said in its announcement Monday.
"You don’t hear these things except for the fact that Trump became president. Believe me, you wouldn’t be hearing that. So they’re moving back from Korea to Detroit. … Also you saw Chrysler moving from Mexico to Michigan, and you have many other companies, they all want to be where the action is," Trump said.
A GM spokesman Wednesday focused on the impact in South Korea when asked if the plant closure would mean more jobs in Detroit.
"That announcement in particular was about our Gunsan plant closing and our need to restructure the business in South Korea," said David Albritton, GM's executive director of product development and international communications. "Depending on the outcome of those efforts there could be … broad, global implications for our business."
Pressed on whether this meant added U.S. jobs, Albritton said "100% of this announcement is in Korea."
GM is not planning to move employees from South Korea to the United States as part of the restructuring affecting the Gunsan plant, one of four GM plants in the country. The Gunsan plant has been running at 20% of capacity over the past three years, according to GM.